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Backwards Compatibility For Xbox One Launches

SlappingOysters writes: What is old is new again as backwards compatibility arrives on the Xbox One as part of a dashboard update. Finder has the full list of 104 launch games for the service, and has analyzed the origins of these titles. The site has determined that of the 104 games, only 28% ever released in boxed form, and of the remaining downloadable Xbox Live games, 36% are remakes of titles from previous generations. The site has also identified 60 games that were on the marketing material for Xbox One backwards compatibility, but were not on the launch line-up.

63 comments

  1. IT'S A TRAP!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Run! Run far away!

    1. Re:IT'S A TRAP!! by JMJimmy · · Score: 1

      From the article? Yes. The "60 titles identified in the marketing material" include titles that that were voted on by users to be included AFTER the initial release, if possible.

      BioShock
      BioShock 2
      BioShock Infinite
      Call of Duty: Black Ops
      Halo: Reach
      Halo Wars
      Skate 3

      All arrive in December's compatibility update.

  2. Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based ruining an windows based os / dx

    1. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What?

    2. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could understand the original Xbox being supported by BC, as it's the same arch and APIs (within reason). But the 360, with it's PPC running on AMD64 instructions is quiet a stretch. How the smeg are they're doing it?

    3. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      He's saying that Xbox 1 games should be playable on the Xbox one. I don't understand why it's so confusing.

    4. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by NotDrWho · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and I wish I could put my old Gamecube discs into my WiiU. But it ain't happening.

      --
      SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    5. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      You actually can with some modding, through the wii compatibility side. You can use gamecube controllers with the adapter that came out with smash bros, and even load arcade games that use triforce hardware (f zero AX for example)

    6. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You can however soft mod the vWii in a Wii U and use Nintendont to play GameCube .iso files. Near 100% compatibility, lots of controllers supported, and a widescreen setting that works very well for a decent amount of original 4:3 games. Still not sure why Nintendo hasn't jumped on selling virtual console GameCube games for the Wii U since its not too hard to get them running on it.

    7. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're waiting, they surely will to breathe one last breath into the GC.

    8. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The 360 is still running Windows. The games still use DirectX. I expect a simple recompile would be enough in many cases.

      In others, where the hardware has been pushed a bit further and the devs used hacks to get things running on ancient hardware, it may prove to be quite difficult.

      I hope the list will grow. I have a large selection of 360 games and the 360 is starting to age now. :(

    9. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably the total disregard and randomness with which he strung together a bunch of words and letters in an insulting caricature of an english sentence?

    10. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      Given they are restricting it to different titles I expect they are recompiling the game code.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    11. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by dave420 · · Score: 1

      You really should stop making generalisations about people as it just takes one counter example to prove you wrong. That's something many SJWs would have problems with - people using lazy generalisations to make a point, as it unfairly condemns those who do not match the generalisation. Just FYI.

    12. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The size of a modern game is mostly textures, media (video and audio), etc. The actual code is a trivial fraction of the total size; it would vary by game but the range would usually be from the low two digit to low three digit MB (anecdotally, simple arcade games using Unreal Engine 4 have had a total binary size of 30 MB; AAA titles would be larger, but not necessarily much larger; they look nicer, but the logic is rarely going to be more complicated than that of the core game engine).

      BC support could just mean recompiling for the new hardware and supplying the complete packaged binary as a "patch"; the game would actually run entirely from the "patch", only loading resources from the original game disk. At modern broadband speeds, even 200 MB is only a few minutes to transfer at most, and it's a tiny fraction of a percent of the 350+ GB of usable space on the smallest Xbox One hard drive.

    13. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would you like a tissue, sweetie?

    14. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They can't recompile the games that are stored on someone's discs. Xbox 360 compatibility is emulated and not very well judging by the small number of games supported.

    15. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nintendo isn't trying to compete with Microsoft or Sony title for title. Microsoft is competing head to head with Sony, and losing this generation pretty spectacularly. The shift away from complete exclusives means there isn't really a way to distinguish themselves without digging in to previous generations. The problem with 360 compatability is if I've got a bunch of 360 games laying around odds are I have a working 360. What I do have is 50-60 original xbox games and quite a few of those I would love to share with my kids, only my xbox won't read discs anymore and it used a goofy version of the dvd drive so finding a replacement isn't easy.

    16. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      the 360 is PPC. The XBOX first gen can run in a VM with some OS edit's for video card / DirectX pass through. Or maybe even no VM all at.

      Windows 10 can run old windows based games on pc's

    17. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *** SMACK*** is the sound of dave420 going down eating his words getting bitchslapped by apk http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    18. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by captjc · · Score: 2

      The discs are only used as physical DRM key. A full game download is required for all compatible titles.

      --
      Slow Down Cowboy! It's been 1 hour, 47 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
    19. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then they are lying when they say "backward compatible". A port/recompile isn't the same thing.

    20. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Given they are restricting it to different titles I expect they are recompiling the game code.

      Sort of, actually it's the base game with a VM specifically tailored for each one. It's the VM creation that takes all the effort, the game code runs largely unaltered inside it (when you download the game you're really downloading the VM with the game inside it).

    21. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stop being a cock, apk.

    22. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by unrtst · · Score: 1

      Then they are lying when they say "backward compatible". A port/recompile isn't the same thing.

      You are correct. They have misappropriated the phrase, and others have defended it with the logic that normal users wouldn't understand what it is otherwise. I believe a more accurate term would be "porting", as in, the 360 games are being ported to the xbox one (possibly with the aid of a backward compatibility layer or API).

    23. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      Oh, so this *doesn't* mean that I could theoretically buy an Xbox One and buy cheap used Xbox 360 games on disc and play them?

      If so, bummer. This is what I thought it was.. (and is what made me somewhat interested in getting an Xbox One - yes, for old games, e.g. Xbox exclusives, though I know the list has only one Fable game so far).

    24. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can but only if they are on the list of BC games. More will be added soon.

    25. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      Because it's confusing. And apparently not in English.

    26. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "What it is, my mama didn't raise no dummies. I dug her rap!"

    27. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by unrtst · · Score: 1

      You can buy cheap used Xbox 360 games on disc and play them on the Xbox One if they're on the "backwards compatibility list", but they won't play as-is from the disk. The disk is essentially used as DRM or identification that you have that game. The ported game is then downloaded and you can play it. I'm not sure if or how much content it may read from the disk itself.

    28. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by captjc · · Score: 1

      Well, yes and no. As I understand it, they are going the route of Nintendo's Virtual Console, where they have an emulator that they wrap the binary in and distribute as a single package versus a generic emulator that gets installed that will attempt to play all games.

      I believe the reason behind this is A) legal in that they want the publishers permission for all games as a CYA. B) They can test games for compatibility as console developers are notorious for using undocumented APIs and hardware hacks / tricks that wreak havoc with software-based emulators. Having games that don't work with the emulator when it is listed as compatible with all games would be a PR disaster, especially if it is a high-profile game. Lastly, C) This gives them and the publishers a new route for sales as they can later have the game listed on the store as a "360 Classic" or whatever they are planning to name them.

      --
      Slow Down Cowboy! It's been 1 hour, 47 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
    29. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by wallsg · · Score: 1

      Oh, stewardess. I speak jive.

    30. Re:Needs 1st Xbox as well come in's X86 based by Wolfrider · · Score: 1

      âoeHas Anyone Really Been Far Even as Decided to Use Even Go Want to do Look More Like?â

      --
      .
      == WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
  3. Eh... Still not too impressed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Considering the "backwards compatibility" list for the X360 to the original XBox wasn't all that accurate... I'm not holding my breath.

    One of my favorite games for the original Xbox, D&D Heroes, is on a couple of compatibility lists... Yet it doesn't work at all in my X360.

  4. Steam OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I already own 140 /1600 Steam OS games and I don't even have a steam machine yet. I had 3 game boy cartridges, 13 game cube games and 1 ps3 game which was used twice as a blueray player. Pokemon for the win. I will never get an xbox. Well we'll see what my kids want but I'm going to seriously suggest they read books. 10 of my high school friends are unemployed gaming addicts. Just like gamblers they can not function. There parents should have bought them balls.

    1. Re:Steam OS by NotDrWho · · Score: 2

      Cool story, bro.

      --
      SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    2. Re:Steam OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a fascinating anecdote.

    3. Re:Steam OS by U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M · · Score: 1

      There parents should have bought them balls.

      I guess your argument is true, you should have been reading instead of playing Pokémon.

  5. Time to grab The Stick of Truth by NotDrWho · · Score: 1

    I've wanted to grab this for so long. But I knew that if I stuck it in my box, it wouldn't work. Now I can finally grab it and stick it in!

    --
    SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    1. Re:Time to grab The Stick of Truth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're a fan of South Park it's enjoyable. The game is good, not amazing, but the references are very entertaining.

      I bet my copy of it just doubled in value.

  6. Anyone remember? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

    I have the recollection that at least some; but probably not all, of the downloadable Xbox360 games, especially the indie ones, were built in something that was confusingly a bit different from .NET in the PC sense(as is customary for Microsoft's deeply confusing platform strategies); but, like .NET, was markedly more limited in terms of native code and deep hardware twiddling than the big commercial disk releases where(where developers could work more or less as close to the metal as their budget, talent, and middleware would allow). This would presumably make the indie downloadables much easier to get running on a more powerful; but architecturally alien, system.

    Is my memory going on this one; or am I recalling correctly that there was one class of games that had a relatively neat abstraction layer; and one class that was accorded extremely broad power with little or no abstraction(save anything specifically related to platform integrity and DRM)?

    1. Re:Anyone remember? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was never too familiar with it, but are you thinking of XNA?

    2. Re:Anyone remember? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He apparently is.

      XNA is a .Net library that provides a dumbed-down form of DirectX.

      His point is valid, though. Simply porting the .Net CLR to the XBox One and adding some functionality shims would get most, if not all, XNA games running.

    3. Re:Anyone remember? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Yes, thank you. My vague recollection wasn't enough to google with; but it looks like XNA was what I had in mind; and what I presume would be massively easier to support on a substantially different piece of hardware than native applications.

    4. Re:Anyone remember? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      I think that XNA specifically got the axe at some point; but I'd assume that MS would already have a CLR implementation for the Xbox one ready to go. Between eating their own dog food for things like painting UI elements; and supporting their 'universal app' ambitions, it'd be a bit weird to omit one; and a CLR has been ported to things rather less familiar to Microsoft than an x86 running some sort of NT-like OS.

      The XNA-based games might not be a priority, since they skewed heavily indie-and-relatively-cheap; but they do seem like the low-hanging fruit technologically. Customer demand is likely concentrated on the much more demanding native-and-optimized-within-an-inch-of-its-life titles; but getting those working is probably an interesting and somewhat harrowing process by comparison.

    5. Re:Anyone remember? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The framework was called XNA and it was supposed to make it easier to develop cross platform (360 + Windows) indie platformers, etc. I think they had pretty strict limits on the size of downloadable xbox live arcade games, which could have been partly why it didn't really take off.

    6. Re:Anyone remember? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      XNA was a nice platform and for beginner/hobby/indie level development and a shame they killed it.

    7. Re:Anyone remember? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The size limit was probably unrelated to XNA - for the first few years of the 360, all XBox Live Arcade games had a size limit.

    8. Re:Anyone remember? by Xest · · Score: 1

      As others have said, yes, you're thinking of XNA. It essentially came in two flavours - the public flavour that XBox Live Indie games were all developed in, and a version that allowed access to more features such as achievements that professional licensed developers could use.

      But that's not the issue here, Microsoft has a fully working emulator that runs all Xbox 360 games flawlessly. The issue is licensing, Microsoft can't just release games through backwards compat. without the owners permission. If it were up to Microsoft every single game from the Xbox 360 would work right now.

      So if a game you want isn't on there blame the publishers, in some cases there are no publishers to blame - the games and their IP are sat in limbo held by asset purchasing firms that purchased the corpses of dead companies past so those games will simply never turn up. Other publishers simply want to sell you ports and re-releases so will never license backwards compat. as they want you to pay for a second time what you've already paid for once.

      The one upside to it all is that Microsoft has at least made it clear that all games release free via games with gold will be licensed for backwards compatibility going forward, hence the library will increase with 2 free games a month for gold subscribers (meaning you now get 4 games per month free with gold if you're an XBox One owner).

      There was a story some time back that EA is considering releasing it's entire catalog via backwards compat. I don't know what happened to that, but obviously if that went ahead then it'd flood the catalog with thousands of new titles. I'd be surprised if the other publishers didn't then follow suit.

      Given all this then, I wonder now, if in hindsight, the reason Sony, Microsoft et. al have always been evasive and excuse making about backwards compatibility support in their systems isn't because of any technical issue supporting the project, but in fact simply that the legal side of it has always been too much of a minefield in getting publishers on board with them being the actual blocking factor because they didn't want it to interfere with their ability to double dip via select re-releases.

  7. Backwards Compatibility is Backwards Thinking! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    - Don Mattrick

  8. The 360 library by RogueyWon · · Score: 2

    The initial list of games supported through back compatibility is relatively disappointing. That said, MS have acknowledged they are working to improve it and, in particular, to address the current problem with support for multi-disk games. On that basis, MS deserves at least two cheers for making a good start.

    But in terms of prioritising titles for support, I'd like it if MS could reflect on those titles where there is the greatest historical interest in ensuring they remain playable on new hardware. I traded in my 360 almost two years ago and was surprised at how little reluctance I felt in doing so. There was only a tiny range of games that I felt regret about not having access to any more.

    In truth, there are relatively few 360 games that would genuinely benefit from preservation. The two categories that I would de-prioritise are:

    Multi-platform games which remain available on modern hardware. This might be because they've had a "remastered" version for a current-gen console. In many cases, however, it is because PC versions remain available, on sale and playable. So a lot of the big cross-platform shooter franchises would not, to my mind, be a priority as they are generally cheaply available on Steam and/or Origin.

    The next category of games are the instalments in iterative franchises which are effectively replaced by later instalments. So the FIFAs, the Maddens and, at a push, the Forzas (Forza 6 is a valid successor to Forza 4 in a way that Forza 5 wasn't). These are the games with no storytelling component, whose features are improved on a year-by-year basis and where there is really no particular reason to go back to the older versions.

    That actually covers a remarkably large portion of the 360's library. I was struck when I traded mine in by how few really significant exclusives the 360 had; its strength was always as the "best console to play multi-platform games on" rather than as an exclusives machine. That said, there are a few titles I would dearly love to see rescued:

    - Lost Odyssey (arguably the best JRPG of its generation and, in some respects, the "real" Final Fantasy 13. It's multi-disc, so that issue would need to be sorted.)

    - Blue Dragon (not quite as good as Lost Odyssey, but still a seriously good JRPG).

    - Ace Combat 6 (the final decent instalment in the series when it was still unafraid to be wacky, before it turned into Call of Duty with planes).

    - Gears of War 2 and 3 (almost certain candidates for an HD remaster at some point, I guess).

    - Deathsmiles (technically also available on mobile platforms, but the 360 port is the definitive version and one of the best bullet-hell shooters available for home consoles).

    There is a much larger list of PS3 titles in need of rescue. My original highest priority, Valkyria Chronicles, is thankfully now on Steam, but I would dearly love to see the Ratchet & Clank games and a lot of those PS3-exclusive or best-on-PS3 JRPGs (such as Eternal Sonata) make it out from under the wire.

    1. Re:The 360 library by bigdady92 · · Score: 3, Informative

      You can't 100% fault MS for the lack of games, it's the publisher's as well.

      MS in one of their press conferences said that they are more than happy to work with a publisher to get their game backwards compatible but it's upto the PUBLISHER not MS in order to start that ball rolling. Considering some of these games are 7+ years old , code probably sitting under someone's desk drawer in a bunch of ZIP drives, and now with digital rights being put into play let alone if any of the rights holders exist or are alive, you have a mess of a time trying to roll this out.

      Now there is 0 excuse for first party titles not being supported. That's a MS issue 100%, but with hundreds of games out there, it's upto the Publisher's to push forward.

      --
      Wheel of Time: Book by Book and Sumview (summary review) Bigdady92 style: http://bigdady92.blogspot.com/
    2. Re:The 360 library by unrtst · · Score: 1

      - Gears of War 2 and 3 (almost certain candidates for an HD remaster at some point, I guess).

      I'm not very familiar with the series, but had been looking at the available console bundles, and the gears of war bundle *appears* to include all of the 360 collection of gears of war:
      http://www.microsoftstore.com/...

      • Full game download of original Gears of War remastered in 1080p
      • Get the entire Xbox 360 Gears of War collection to play for free

      They also have the ultimate edition on xbox one as a stand alone game. I don't know if it includes 2 and 3 though.
      Are these the same?

    3. Re:The 360 library by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      But in terms of prioritising titles for support, I'd like it if MS could reflect on those titles where there is the greatest historical interest in ensuring they remain playable on new hardware

      Actually, MS is prioritizing based on user votes. See http://xbox.uservoice.com/foru... for a list of the highest voted games.

      The only reason games might not be ported despite high votes is the publisher - some of the top ones are Activision and EA, who will probably not allow those games be played on Xbone because they'd rather sell you a new copy of the game.

      Of course, just like the 360's backwards compatibility, the compatibility is limited because it's all about he experience - backwards compatibility will be crappy if the game runs crappy, so I'm pretty sure MS vets all the games to make sure they at least run decently. Unlike the early PS3s which had a PS2 built into them, the 360 and One at best use an emulator, if not recompiled. Though I'd be surprised if they recompiled - game code is almost always lost the moment the game's released.

  9. it's still not backward compatible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Until they let me play my already purchased xbox live games (arcade)... it's still not backward compatible.

    1. Re:it's still not backward compatible by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      RTFA, which is busy complaining that MOST of the supported games are xbox live arcade games.

  10. Took a year to do what Sony did already? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The article title should read: Microsoft has not brought backwards compatibility but tries to spin like they did.

    I've been waiting to buy the xBone until backwards compatibility happened. Apparently I'm still waiting...

  11. Nearly got me to buy an Xbox One by GreatDrok · · Score: 1

    I was very close to dropping cash on an XBOne when I heard about backwards compatibility. I've had a 360 since launch and have a pretty large selection of games and my 360 being a first gen lacks modern features like HDMI. Then I looked at the list to see what games I owned were on it. There are two. Sigh. I ended up buying a preowned 360 Elite which has HDMI and moved on. I already have a PS4 and PC so the current gen games are well covered so I don't think there's room for an XBOne until it can realistically cover the majority of my collection, especially Red Dead Redemption since we're never likely to see an HD remake of that.

    --
    "I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
    1. Re:Nearly got me to buy an Xbox One by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I did drop the cash. Big mistake (as I should have known). Microsoft blows.