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BlackBerry Exits Pakistan Amid User Privacy Concerns (blackberry.com)

An anonymous reader writes: BlackBerry has announced that it will pull its operations in Pakistan from today, quoting a recent government notice which read that the company would not be permitted to continue its services in the country after December for 'security reasons.' In a blog post released by BlackBerry today, chief operating officer Marty Beard confirmed the decision: 'The truth is that the Pakistani government wanted the ability to monitor all BlackBerry Enterprise Service traffic in the country, including every BES e-mail and BES BBM message.' He added: 'BlackBerry will not comply with that sort of directive.'

71 comments

  1. Hooray by messymerry · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Hooray for Blackberry. I wish more corporations had a even tiny little smidgen of ethics. Oh, and stop calling me an effing "consumer"!!! Corporations work for the banks nowadays. That is their "customer".

    --
    Dear Microlimp: I give you 2 valid product keys for win7 and you reject both of them. Piss off you wankers!!!
    1. Re:Hooray by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I suspect their "smidgen of ethics" is a convenient excuse to pull out of a market in which they don't make money. Where there's money to be made, ethics usually go out the window.

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    2. Re:Hooray by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US and Pakistan have the same religious fanatics trying to control the government and keep them in the dark-ages problem. Do you really want anti-government religious lunatics to be able to plot in secret?

    3. Re:Hooray by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No. The US has different religious fanatics trying to control the government and keep them in the dark-ages problem.

    4. Re:Hooray by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      The US government uses Blackberries, why would they reduce the security of them willingly?

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    5. Re:Hooray by malditaenvidia · · Score: 1

      Why was this moderated as troll? If China had made the same demands, they would have complied immediately.

    6. Re:Hooray by unixisc · · Score: 2

      Pakistan: Muslim Jihadis trying to seize power in Islamabad so that they can control their nukes and use it against anybody - either in a direct war against India, or for Jihadi dirty bombs in the West, and committing acts of terror and mayhem in the process to get to it

      US: Christian pro-life fanatics who want to outlaw abortion, including in cases of rape & incest, and are campaigning in the primary elections so that one of their favored candidates wins the party nomination

      Yup, same thing!!!

    7. Re:Hooray by dgatwood · · Score: 2

      US: Christian pro-life fanatics who want to outlaw abortion, including in cases of rape & incest, and are campaigning in the primary elections so that one of their favored candidates wins the party nomination

      And occasionally shooting up or bombing abortion clinics.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    8. Re:Hooray by BCGlorfindel · · Score: 1

      I suspect their "smidgen of ethics" is a convenient excuse to pull out of a market in which they don't make money. Where there's money to be made, ethics usually go out the window.

      Their smidgen of ethics is even smaller than you fear. Blackberry isn't pulling out of the Pakistani market, they are being thrown out. Reuters reported back in July already that Pakistan was giving private telecoms the deadline of November 30th to shutdown all BES systems.

      Oh, and if that didn't squish their ethical stand enough, the blog post has an update since the summary was written. Pakistan moved the deadline to December 30th and Blackberry is happily staying in the country till then now...

      But freedom fighting sounds better than losing customers.

    9. Re:Hooray by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      "The US government uses Blackberries, why would they reduce the security of them willingly?"

      How is it reducing the security of government owned Blackberries to allow the government access to the devices they already own, use, and have 100% access to? Did you even think before you posted?

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    10. Re:Hooray by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Because if they have access, others will get that access to. If the US can access all the BES servers, what is to stop Russia from getting the same access and reading all the emails sent by government employees?

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    11. Re:Hooray by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget the religious indoctrination they're pushing in the school system. They've camouflaged it with fancy words like "intelligent design" but it's still Christians trying to force everyone to accept their creation story to the exclusion of all else (including actual science).

    12. Re:Hooray by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      thats because all their killing is done in africa and asia. enjoy your blinders.

    13. Re: Hooray by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Proof?

      They don't have much penetration in China, so your kinda full of shit.

    14. Re: Hooray by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you intentionally being obtuse, or just don't understand?

      "Give us full access of gtfo".
      "Fuck that. We are getting the fuck out".

      What's so hard to comprehend?

    15. Re: Hooray by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *or

    16. Re:Hooray by invictusvoyd · · Score: 1

      The US and Pakistan have the same religious fanatics trying to control the government and keep them in the dark-ages problem. Do you really want anti-government religious lunatics to be able to plot in secret?

      The blackberry market in Pakistan is peanuts. They bent over in India because they had significant sales there. It was more profitable for them to exit Pakistan and publicize a pseudo-pious cause rather than bend over. Business is unethical by definition.

  2. Security by MagickalMyst · · Score: 1

    I always found Blackberry to be the most secure as far as mobile devices go.

    They were also the only devices that worked during the 9/11 attacks.

    --
    Political correctness is really just herd psychology pushed by insecure people who desperately seek social conformity.
    1. Re:Security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I always found Blackberry to be the most secure as far as mobile devices go.

      They were also the only devices that worked during the 9/11 attacks.

      Hopefully BlackBerry's foray into Google Android with the BlackBerry Priv running BlackBerry Android will bring the same level of security as BlackBerry users have been accustomed to experiencing. The initial release of BlackBerry Android is not security feature complete yet although the anticipated update to BlackBerry Android (Marshmallow) should address some of the security features.

    2. Re:Security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They were also the only devices that worked during the 9/11 attacks.

      As opposed to what? Are you saying the GSM network went down for other devices at the time? It's not like there were competing smart phones with their own chat protocols at the time. BB used their awful BIS system for all TCP traffic at the time. It sure as heck did go down for awhile on 9/11. If you're comparing it to plain SMS it may have fared better due to channel congestion.

      The devices *were* (major emphasis on were) more secure because they did squat all. Basic J2ME apps that were slow as molasses.

    3. Re:Security by MagickalMyst · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "As opposed to what?"

      As opposed to other cellphones.

      "It sure as heck did go down for awhile on 9/11."

      Blackberry was the only communications lifeline for many on 9/11. It was reported in the NYT.

      It has even been suggested that radio jamming technology may have been employed on 9/11, as several important communication systems 'just happened' to go down that day:

      - New York cell phones (although this could possibly be caused by a system overload)
      - WTC’s internal communication system (just happened to be down that day)
      - Port Authority's transmission repeater on top of WTC5 (just happened to be down that day)

      Regardless of these communications failures, Blackberry still allowed people to communicate on 9/11.

      Then we moved into the age of surveillance, and the world of the Spyphone - largely justified by those attacks. How ironic.

      --
      Political correctness is really just herd psychology pushed by insecure people who desperately seek social conformity.
    4. Re:Security by Aqualung812 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That had nothing to do with security.

      It was simply that Blackberry was using BBM and people were sending data-based text messages to each other.

      Everyone else was using classic flip-phones and trying to call each other, and the cell networks were overloaded.

      Getting a few bytes of text that would auto-retry in the background was reliable. Getting an open voice slot on a cell tower was not.

      --
      Grammer Nazis - I mod you "troll" unless you actually add something on-topic. Yes, I know I have mispellings in my sig.
    5. Re:Security by narcc · · Score: 1

      An important feature, often over looked, were the message received and read notices. When communication is spotty, that sort of feature becomes essential.

  3. What they don't tell you ... by Qbertino · · Score: 2, Funny

    ... is that they only had 7 paying customers in Pakistan. ... Or something like that.
    Nice PR move anyway - shame it's so blatantly obvious.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
    1. Re:What they don't tell you ... by Zarjazz · · Score: 1

      Agreed. What he meant to say was "BlackBerry will not comply with that sort of directive ... unless it makes economic sense to do so"

  4. How Ironic by kkoo · · Score: 2

    Ironic after BB said they'd allow the US government a back door into all the new telephone encryption.

    1. Re:How Ironic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ironic after BB said they'd allow the US government a back door into all the new telephone encryption.

      Yeah, how quickly people forget that Blackberry has basically sold us up to the US government. It even advertises this fact as a good feature. I guess snooping is bad when brown governments ask it, when white one do then it's a different matter eh ? I guess it all boils down to my nazi is better than your nazi.
      Fuck Blackberry. Fuck then the moment they decided to run over their user's privacy.

    2. Re:How Ironic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Phone access != BES access.

      They may not give 2 shits about you or your privacy but they sure give a shit about their BES deployments. As the first comment pointed out, WE aren't their customers. Corporations spending millions on BES are their customers. Selling backdoored *phones* is a core part of their business model to go right along with BES. So yes, they are happy to give LEO the same backdoor access your IT manager has but they won't give out the keys to the kingdom for BES.

  5. So, if I am reading this right? by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

    All BB devices will just stop working in Pakistan, today? Do the owners get refunds?
    At least, how else will the company stop all Service traffic in the country, other then to stop the traffic.

    This actually seems worse that just complying. At least you would have a working device, and they could plaster the "send message" screen with warnings about the government reading all your messages.

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
  6. The bigger news is someone using blackberry :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I liked them but they really need to come up with something really good soon

    Them among with nokia and sony ericsson used to be leaders and it is sad to see them lose their relevance

  7. What? The brown people want to spy on us? No way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We only do lawful interception for our white masters.

  8. and others by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is worthy of note that there is the extremely rare "we will not let you murder our users" in blackberry, but that is not all the phones. The really interesting question is why Samsung, google, apple, and others are not also refusing to allow people to be killed like that.

  9. Remember by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everyone else providing service there is allowing government snoops.

  10. What about consumers? by Kardos · · Score: 1

    So privacy for business, but not for us plebs? http://www.bbc.com/news/techno...

  11. in Pakistan by kipsate · · Score: 1

    'BlackBerry will not comply with that sort of directive' ...in Pakistan.

    --
    My karma ran over your dogma
    1. Re:in Pakistan by jrumney · · Score: 1

      Since the NSA negotiated their contract first, they were able to get an exclusivity clause in there.

  12. In Pakistan it's illegal, but in the US... by geekmux · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...it's practically welcomed and encouraged, as demonstrated by the COO of Blackberry practically bragging about their new "lawful device interception" features a week ago.

    You either shun state-sponsored surveillance or you embrace it. Make up your fucking mind already before you attempt another RIM job with the 17 customers you have left.

    1. Re:In Pakistan it's illegal, but in the US... by unixisc · · Score: 2

      In the US, that law expired as of today. Authorities would have to get a warrant before they can go after any interception.

      In Pakistan's case, they wanted a carte blanche access to ALL BES data. India, by contrast, does that selectively.

  13. Ouch by sabbede · · Score: 1

    Isn't that one of the few regions where Blackberry still has market share?

  14. Post just the other day... by watermark · · Score: 1

    There was this story just the other day. So they have the ability to decrypt everything, they just won't do it in bulk.

  15. Looks like they've changed their tune by blake1 · · Score: 2
  16. I don't understand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Blackberry has always caved to government demands for unrestricted access to their network in the past. The USA, Saudi Arabia and many others. That is one reason a lot of businesses dropped them as a provider. So what's different now?

    1. Re:I don't understand by cfalcon · · Score: 1

      The Pakistani government is not equivalent to the USG.

  17. Woot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now they just need to pull out of the UK.

  18. But they already do all of this for the USG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I suppose we can admire them for their patriotism.

    1. Re:But they already do all of this for the USG by cfalcon · · Score: 1

      > But they already do all this for the USG

      I'm not sure exactly how much they do for the USG. They've mentioned their "lawful intercept" abilities, which sounds much more like "we can respond to subpoenas" and very much not "everything everyone writes gets checked and filtered and flagged".

      You also make it sound like the idea of the Pakistani government having full access to communications is the same exact thing as the USG having full access to communications. These are definitely different things. It's very reasonable to proclaim that you want NO ONE to have access to your communications- that you and the people you are communicating with should have access to the data, and no one in the middle, not Blackberry, not some government, no one. It's also reasonable, though less likely to work out in reality, to proclaim that you are ok with the company having access, as long as they don't willfully share it with governments.

      But even if you have that opinion, the USG and the Pakistani governments are not the same thing. Comparing the USG to the Pakistani government is frankly absurd. To claim otherwise is just anti-American drivel. That doesn't mean you have to be ok with the NSA tapping your comms- just recognize that it's a fundamentally different thing.

  19. Pakistan announced this in July by BCGlorfindel · · Score: 2

    It's nice of Blackberry to try and spin this as a positive that they've decided to pull the plug on Pakistan, today on November 30th. Reuters however reported on the 24th of July 2015 that the Pakistani government was moving to shut Blackberry out of the country by November 30th.

    This is much more an effort on Blackberry's part to try and spin a loss of a major business customer than it is Blackberry actually takign any manner of morale stand.

  20. Re:Coren22's impersonation "APKolypse" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Happy Holiday's APK!

    hope ya had a good one

    you took a few days off! i caught up from the weekend and saw that you'd posted little - hope ya spent the time w/friends & family

  21. Different than India by LeonPierre · · Score: 1

    How is this any different from the arrangement the Indian government required?

    http://www.yro.slashdot.org/st...

    --
    "If it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet"
    1. Re:Different than India by BCGlorfindel · · Score: 1

      How is this any different from the arrangement the Indian government required?

      http://www.yro.slashdot.org/st...

      The difference is that Blackberry isn't taking a moral stand against Pakistan either. Pakistan decided as of July that Blackberry would be banned from use by private ISP's within Pakistan, and today was the deadline. Pakistan may or may not continue running all government phones over their own BES system, but nobody in the country is allowed to do it privately any more.

      Blackberry is just trying to spin a loss as anything else.

    2. Re:Different than India by unixisc · · Score: 1
      From the article that you cited:

      The initial demands of the government also included the ability to intercept and monitor emails and messages sent using BlackBerry Enterprise Server, but it seems that this demand have been shelved for now."

      As was pointed out in one of the comments there, RIM gave India exactly what it gives any other government: any authorized/lawful request for information is provided, but RIM cannot hand over control of BES, which is what the Indian government initially wanted. Finally, when they realized it, they agreed to what RIM provided, but made a big face-saving splash in the media to make it look like they had won a big victory over an evil Western company.

  22. BES was kicked out, not pulling out. by BCGlorfindel · · Score: 3, Informative

    Phone access != BES access.

    They may not give 2 shits about you or your privacy but they sure give a shit about their BES deployments. As the first comment pointed out, WE aren't their customers. Corporations spending millions on BES are their customers. Selling backdoored *phones* is a core part of their business model to go right along with BES. So yes, they are happy to give LEO the same backdoor access your IT manager has but they won't give out the keys to the kingdom for BES.

    This!

    Pakistan was in love with Blackberry for the longest time for exactly this reason because they liked having a central BES server to make the job of the ISI easier to collect everyone's communications. Then back in July Pakistan announced it was kicking Blackberry out of the country, by November 30th(today).

    From what I've followed of Pakistani news it looks like this was the flow of things. The Pakistani government spent a long time requiring anybody in government or important had to run Blackberry on the government controlled BES server so that everyone could be watched. Since GW Bush gave them his cowboy speech, their military government relaxed things a bit and gave civilian government control back again for the first meaningful length of time in the country's history. During that time the civilian government also liked keeping tabs on everyone, but also opened up telecoms ability to do their own thing. This led to telecoms running their own private BES systems. The Taliban then had an affordable encrypted communications channel that they could use for planning attacks on Pakistani cities. It's even odds whether the Taliban or civilian use of the private BES systems was the REAL reason the government decided to crack down, but Pakistan announced it's decision back in July that Blackberry had gone from golden boy to unwelcome and would be banned from use by the country's private ISP's today.

    In short, Blackberry would like to spin this as them taking a stand, but it's really just them losing a big customer.

  23. Yeah, they need to be bigger to demand that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And it doesn't matter if it's not a government. Size and power are required, they're equal opporunists in that sense.

  24. Re:What? The brown people want to spy on us? No wa by unixisc · · Score: 1

    How is this a race thing? Right next door, India wanted to monitor communications b/w certain Blackberry users, as opposed to all Blackberry users, and RIM, after a 4 year standoff, agreed. Here, Pakistan wants full access to all the data, which is what Blackberry refuses. Also, in India's case, they wanted it to spy on insurgent groups, which included both Islamic and Communist groups, while in Pakistan's case, they want it to spy only on enemies of the government within Pakistan

  25. BBY may be in a dive, but at least they left Pak by swschrad · · Score: 1

    actually, that is a good business model. evil governmental bastards want to auto-censor every byte on the web, abandon that putrid nation. it will push the people one step closer to overthrowing the rotten dictators.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  26. BB Won't comply by erapert · · Score: 1

    'The truth is that the Pakistani government wanted the ability to monitor all BlackBerry Enterprise Service traffic in the country, including every BES e-mail and BES BBM message.' He added: 'BlackBerry will not comply with that sort of directive.'

    What he really means:

    BlackBerry won't comply with the Pakistani's demands because we figured it would damage our reputation way more than it's worth. Let's face it, Pakistan has no money and their government is a joke. This way we get to shout about our integrity from the mountaintops and surf on the wave of backlash against government surveillance. It also gives us a fig leaf against accusations that we might be cooperating with the alphabet soup agencies that are actually serious about spying on their citizens.

    Just don't ask any impertinent questions about their relationship with the real powers that be.

  27. Shadow boxing for attention by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In a desperate bid to stay relevant: because RIM needed to pull out of a market that was losing them money, they hired a crooked bureaucrat in a 3rd World Country to pretend to give a shit about Blackberry. This gave them the opportunity to pose for the news media in their best dragon slaying outfit. Unfortunately the "terrible dragon" appears to be a dog in a Halloween costume, and their strategy for victory is: "Run away!!!!"

  28. Coren22's impersonation "APKolypse" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Coren22 IMPERSONATES RESPECTED MEMBERS OF THE SECURITY COMMUNITY http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    ---

    "privilege escalation's a bad thing" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015

    How else programmatically update it?

    "requires elevation to write hosts" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015

    Hypocrite later admits it - hosts do vs. WFP/SFP not my ware. Users set it not programmatic impersonation. Security wares need it.

    ---

    "secretary at MalwareBytes took a look at his source code & said it looked all good" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

    Mr. Steven Burn of Malwarebytes

    "yes I've seen the code & yes it is safe." FROM http://forum.hosts-file.net/vi...

    ---

    "we should avoid your crap it looks like malware." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Monday November 02, 2015 @03:52PM (#50850445)

    60++ reputable sources say different:

    64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

    +

    32-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

    &

    Installer-> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...

    MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...

    ---

    "MiTM... his software provides" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

    Hardcoded favs users provide = REVERSE DNS verified & my ware filters 5,500++ false positives - security site hosts data = false positives filtered.

    ---

    "Apk doesn't think DNS servers are worth running & believes Microsoft Active Directory can run w/out DNS." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday October 27, 2015

    Show us where I say it? Not illogic logic but where I say it. I say AD needs internal DNS far back as 2007

    http://forums.tweaktown.com/wi...

    See "To warn users who have ActiveDirectory/AD LAN-WAN setups to NOT use external DNS servers" there.

    APK

    P.S.=>

    "modding you down for trolling in your signature" - by Dog-Cow (21281) on Wednesday November 25, 2015

    Dog-Cow's (old acc't. no new sockpuppet from you) thoughts of your signatures about me

    ... apk

  29. Coren22's impersonation "APKolypse" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Coren22 IMPERSONATES RESPECTED MEMBERS OF THE SECURITY COMMUNITY http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    ---

    "privilege escalation's a bad thing" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015

    How else programmatically update it?

    "requires elevation to write hosts" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015

    Hypocrite later admits it - hosts do vs. WFP/SFP not my ware. Users set it not programmatic impersonation. Security wares need it.

    ---

    "secretary at MalwareBytes took a look at his source code & said it looked all good" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

    Mr. Steven Burn of Malwarebytes

    "yes I've seen the code & yes it is safe." FROM http://forum.hosts-file.net/vi...

    ---

    "we should avoid your crap it looks like malware." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Monday November 02, 2015 @03:52PM (#50850445)

    60++ reputable sources say different:

    64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

    +

    32-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

    &

    Installer-> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...

    MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...

    ---

    "MiTM... his software provides" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

    Hardcoded favs users provide = REVERSE DNS verified & my ware filters 5,500++ false positives - security site hosts data = false positives filtered.

    ---

    "Apk doesn't think DNS servers are worth running & believes Microsoft Active Directory can run w/out DNS." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday October 27, 2015

    Show us where I say it? Not illogic logic but where I say it. I say AD needs internal DNS far back as 2007

    http://forums.tweaktown.com/wi...

    See "To warn users who have ActiveDirectory/AD LAN-WAN setups to NOT use external DNS servers" there.

    APK

    P.S.=>

    "modding you down for trolling in your signature" - by Dog-Cow (21281) on Wednesday November 25, 2015

    Dog-Cow's (old acc't. no new sockpuppet from you) thoughts of your signatures about me

    ... apk

  30. It's because it's Pakistan asking. by tlambert · · Score: 2

    It's because it's Pakistan asking. They had some qualms when India first asked, but granted them access eventually.

    http://thenextweb.com/asia/201...

  31. Every other provider allows interception by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    BlackBerry was kicked out, but all the other communication providers probably allowed Pakistan access. Think about it from that view point.

  32. Takebacksies... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Um, didn't they just recently say they were all for government backdoors in their products. I guess it just depends on the government.

  33. Re:What? The brown people want to spy on us? No wa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    such as the Taliban, LeJ, LeT, BLA, Da'esh etc? The evil fuckers!

  34. Re:Fuck the pakis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    citations or it didn't happen...From a proud Pakistani

  35. BlackBerry aside... by iq145 · · Score: 1

    i wish Barack would pull operations from Pakistan! Here's what he did while we were having a government "shut down" due to lack of funds: http://www.usatoday.com/story/...