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US Marshals Jump Into 'Cyber Monday' Mania (networkworld.com)

Posted by samzenpus on from the buying-other-people's-stuff dept.

coondoggie writes: "Cyber Monday is generally thought to be the start of the online holiday shopping season. We would like to encourage shoppers who are already online in search of bargains to consider stopping by our auction website to bid on forfeited assets," said Jason Wojdylo, Chief Inspector of the U.S. Marshals Service Asset Forfeiture Division in a statement. These online auctions are designed to generate proceeds from ill-gotten gains to give back to victims, he stated. One auction includes a wine collection of approximately 2,800 bottles seized from once prominent wine dealer Rudy Kurniawan, who is serving a 10-year federal prison sentence following his conviction of selling millions of dollars of counterfeit wine.

63 comments

  1. Can I bid on the cash cops seized without warrant? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Are all the things cops take with civil forfeiture without ever having to prove a crime occurred up for sale too? Or does all that just disappear into the cops' pockets since it's not like there's a paper trail at the courthouse to keep track of it all.

  2. counterfeit wine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    wine collection of approximately 2,800 bottles seized from once prominent wine dealer Rudy Kurniawan, who is serving a 10-year federal prison sentence following his conviction of selling millions of dollars of counterfeit wine.

    Can I pay for it with bitcoin - that would seem appropriate.

  3. Holy crap - horse statues by towermac · · Score: 2

    Check out the statues:

    http://www.usmarshals.gov/asse...

    How crazy does one have to be? I'd love to hear her story behind that. Maybe she'll write a book.

    1. Re:Holy crap - horse statues by GrumpySteen · · Score: 1

      Not as crazy as you hoped. Those are all awards that the woman won.

      Rita A. Crundwell (born January 10, 1953) was the appointed comptroller and treasurer of Dixon, Illinois, from 1983 to 2012, and the admitted operator of what is believed to be the largest municipal fraud in American history. She was fired in April 2012 after it was revealed that she had embezzled $53.7 million from the city over 22 years to support her championship American Quarter Horse breeding operation.

    2. Re:Holy crap - horse statues by PrimaryConsult · · Score: 1

      In that case more like trophies the town taxpayers won...

    3. Re:Holy crap - horse statues by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Fuck the trophies, how much for the house?

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    4. Re:Holy crap - horse statues by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      $53.7 million. Let me just think about that for a moment.

      Okay, I'm officially speechless.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    5. Re:Holy crap - horse statues by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      Check out the statues:

      http://www.usmarshals.gov/asse...

      How crazy does one have to be? I'd love to hear her story behind that. Maybe she'll write a book.

      Just ask and you shall receive.

      Rita A. Crundwell (born January 10, 1953) was the appointed comptroller and treasurer of Dixon, Illinois, from 1983 to 2012, and the admitted operator of what is believed to be the largest municipal fraud in American history. She was fired in April 2012 after it was revealed that she had embezzled $53.7 million from the city over 22 years to support her championship American Quarter Horse breeding operation. [1][2][3][4] She pled guilty to her crimes and was sentenced to nearly 20 years in prison.[1]

      Crundwell's Quarter Horse operation, RC Quarter Horses, was one of the best-known Quarter Horse breeders in the country; her horses won 52 world championships and she was named the leading owner by the American Quarter Horse Association for eight consecutive years prior to her arrest.

      [continued]

      One year of prison for each 2.5 million dollars. That's not bad. Where do I sign up?

      Where are they actually selling the horses? Those should be worth way more than the statues.

    6. Re:Holy crap - horse statues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Okay, I'm officially speechless.

      I do not think that means what you think it means.

    7. Re:Holy crap - horse statues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but only about 200 000 a month ...

    8. Re:Holy crap - horse statues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Being speechless doesn't mean you can't use a keyboard.

  4. corruption, not victim compensation by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 5, Informative

    These online auctions are designed to generate proceeds from ill-gotten gains to give back to victims, he stated.

    Assets seized under asset forfeiture generally don't go "back to victims", they mostly go back to police departments. It is a corrupt system that is urgently in need of reform.

    http://www.forfeiturereform.co...

    https://www.aclu.org/issues/cr...

    Police should never benefit from asset forfeiture because it creates a perverse set of incentives; either it should go into the state or federal general fund, or proceeds should go to a pool of charities. The burden of proof for asset forfeiture should be on the government, and the standard should be "beyond a reasonable doubt", just like any other criminal conviction.

    1. Re:corruption, not victim compensation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US Marshals claim part of theirs goes to victims:

      Proceeds generated from asset sales are used to compensate victims, supplement funding for law enforcement initiatives and support community programs.

    2. Re:corruption, not victim compensation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So, because this wine was deemed illegal it was forfeited to police who are now selling it themselves??

      Remind me who the criminals are again?

    3. Re:corruption, not victim compensation by Sarten-X · · Score: 2

      From what I see on the Marshals' listings, the items being sold are forfeited pursuant to a final judgement from a suitable court. The proceeds are indeed listed as part of the judgement, and would therefore be distributed among the victims (possibly including the government itself) as any similar fine would.

      Some jurisdictions may be abusing forfeiture for profit - and that's bad - but it's quite a leap to extrapolate that to all law enforcement agencies in the country, as some Slashdotters are quick to do.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    4. Re:corruption, not victim compensation by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1

      ...but not necessarily in that order.

    5. Re: corruption, not victim compensation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It is not a leap, it is standard operating procedure. The asset forfeiture programs are used by police the nation over to supplement funding.

      The profit motive and criminal justice are incompatible unless you are a lawyer or a bondsman.

    6. Re:corruption, not victim compensation by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 3, Informative

      The US Marshall Service deputies work for the federal judiciary, much like a county sheriff handles local court matters. This is most likely all "criminal forfeiture" which isn't the problem in the US. This is the proceeds of actual criminal activity as verified by a court.

      The problems are with "civil forfeiture", which is handled by the FBI on the federal level. Civil forfeiture needs to be shut down entirely, and any LEO found to have taken part in it should be prosecuted. Yes, I'm serious.

      --
      Do you have ESP?
    7. Re:corruption, not victim compensation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The wine is itself, not illegal, it is merely not what it was portrayed to be, however absent a finding of it being poisonous, then it would be ordinary wine, of the kind you can buy in a grocery store. It may not be Chateau LeFancyPants, but it would still be what some people want.

    8. Re:corruption, not victim compensation by PrimaryConsult · · Score: 1

      Actually a few dozen $10 bottles of wine with a label of Chateau LeFancyPants would be perfect for gifting... weddings, family dinners you didn't want to go to anyway, or a peace offering to an annoying neighbour who keeps blowing leaves onto your lawn....

    9. Re:corruption, not victim compensation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Some jurisdictions may be abusing forfeiture for profit - and that's bad - but it's quite a leap to extrapolate that to all law enforcement agencies in the country, as some Slashdotters are quick to do.

      Actually, the US Marshals Service is at the heart of asset forfeiture abuse, because they are used by many local and state police agencies to circumvent state laws against asset forfeiture abuse:

      The US Marshals Service doesn't need to dirty its hands by performing seizures. All it has to do is sit there and wait for assets from equitable sharing programs to roll in. And roll in they do, thanks to local law enforcement agencies partnering up with the DOJ to avoid state laws put in place to limit the sort of abuse that is all too frequent when cops are given the authority to declare money, vehicles and other property guilty on the spot.

      https://www.techdirt.com/artic...

      From what I see on the Marshals' listings, the items being sold are forfeited pursuant to a final judgement from a suitable court. The proceeds are indeed listed as part of the judgement, and would therefore be distributed among the victims (possibly including the government itself) as any similar fine would.

      You get a gold star for propaganda, weasel words, and obfuscation!

    10. Re:corruption, not victim compensation by BlueStrat · · Score: 2

      From what I see on the Marshals' listings, the items being sold are forfeited pursuant to a final judgement from a suitable court. The proceeds are indeed listed as part of the judgement, and would therefore be distributed among the victims (possibly including the government itself) as any similar fine would.

      Some jurisdictions may be abusing forfeiture for profit - and that's bad - but it's quite a leap to extrapolate that to all law enforcement agencies in the country, as some Slashdotters are quick to do.

      It doesn't matter how or for what reason(s) the property was seized or what legal/procedural mechanism was involved.

      Government should not profit. Proceeds from any and all seized property should go to non-governmental/non-government-affiliated charities.

      Having judges/courts seize the property being sold, even upon a criminal conviction, rather than some street cop deciding that your money/house/car/etc broke the law simply moves the corruption up the ladder and further institutionalizes the problem.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    11. Re:corruption, not victim compensation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Government should not profit.

      The US Marshals Service is part of the Federal government. Last time I checked, the Federal government has spent more money than it made for most of the past few decades, so I wouldn't exactly call it "profit"....

    12. Re:corruption, not victim compensation by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      On consideration, I would add one exception; actual crime victim reimbursements (where, of course, the crime is not a "victimless" crime).

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    13. Re:corruption, not victim compensation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't be obtuse. The parent was talking about the hazard of seizures becoming a revenue stream.

    14. Re:corruption, not victim compensation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is no longer a hazard to become one. Tourist agencies are warning European citizens to not travel through small towns in the U.S.A since there is a likely chance that the local police will seize anything you have on you. They local police is betting that a tourist will not go through the long legal process of getting the assets back.

    15. Re:corruption, not victim compensation by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      Proceeds generated from asset sales are used to compensate victims, supplement funding for law enforcement initiatives and support community programs.

      Victimless crimes are probably preferable then. Also I assume those "law enforcement initiatives" are just double-speak for big blow out parties, cable TV for the break rooms, cool military equipment, cool new cars (both marked and unmarked), and unlimited donuts.

    16. Re:corruption, not victim compensation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... Yes, I'm serious.

      You think servants will be punished for obeying their masters, plus, in many cases, making their masters richer? If the wealthy and powerful started that, they'd have to fight the pitchfork-wielding townsfolk themselves. Never gonna happen.

    17. Re:corruption, not victim compensation by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1

      ... Yes, I'm serious.

      You think servants will be punished for obeying their masters, plus, in many cases, making their masters richer? If the wealthy and powerful started that, they'd have to fight the pitchfork-wielding townsfolk themselves. Never gonna happen.

      Bullshit. Not only has it happened, it was such a stupid defense that we gave it a sarcastic name, the "Nuremberg Defense". 70 years ago we (our civilization) listened to people all day long whine "I was only following orders" and they'd be hanging the next morning.

      Something rotten has happened since then in our culture, and we will pay heavily for it.

      --
      Do you have ESP?
  5. Cheap Stolen Goods Buy Now!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This mafia the police has become is disgusting.

  6. Let me get this straight by viperidaenz · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Some guy is in jail for 10 years for selling counterfeit wine.
    The cops are now selling his counterfeit wine.

    If a shop buys these bottles and re-sells them, isn't that still illegally selling counterfeit products?

    If you import a counterfeit product and it's stopped at the border, it either gets destroyed or you have to pay to ship it back.

    1. Re:Let me get this straight by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 2

      No, they're not selling the counterfeit wines. They're selling the wines that he bought with the money that he made from selling counterfeit wines.

  7. This should be "free" as in wine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No way that police should benefit from this type of activity.

  8. Another auction linked at the Marshall's site by rmdingler · · Score: 1

    Another auction, which closes on Dec. 1, includes assets seized from Rita Crundwell, the former comptroller of Dixon, Illinois, who in 2012 was convicted of stealing more than $53.7 million over two decades from the city where she was employed. She is serving a nearly 20-year federal prison sentence. More than 390 lots are being auctioned, to include 150 belt buckles, an number of horse-shaped plaques and trophies.

    Dixon is a city of 15,733 souls, per Wikipedia, as of the 2000 census.

    How in the bloody hell did that much money disappear unnoticed for 20 years?

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

    1. Re:Another auction linked at the Marshall's site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How in the bloody hell did that much money disappear unnoticed for 20 years?

      The Wikipedia page gives the basic info; there are other resources on the Internet that give more details. It's a textbook case of lack of controls in accounting. The worst part is that an independent outside auditor didn't catch it. The auditor was originally part of a small firm that was purchased by a larger firm. The larger firm -- and the city's bank -- were sued and ended up settling for $40 million. Ouch.

    2. Re:Another auction linked at the Marshall's site by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      Most of that money was stolen near the end, with 30M of the thefts occuring in six years. Somehow, she convinced the town that the problem was in the state stiffing the city of monies owed to them. The theft started small (comparitively) with a first theft of 25,000. She convinced them to fire half the street maintence workers, etc.

      The city has since recovered about $50 M of the money, from teh auditors and the auctions.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    3. Re:Another auction linked at the Marshall's site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow. In relative terms, she has done more harm to her community than a serial rapist or a multiple-count homicide case. She should never see the sky again and that still wouldn't be enough punishment for what she did.

    4. Re:Another auction linked at the Marshall's site by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      Well, she got almost the maximum (19 years, 7 months instead of an even 20) in return for pleading guilty and making it easier to take all her stuff to make some restitution. They thought about prosecuting her more, but decided that it wasn't worth the cost to the taxpayers to keep an 77 year old in jail (how old she will be when she gets out)

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    5. Re:Another auction linked at the Marshall's site by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      she has done more harm to her community than a serial rapist or a multiple-count homicide case.

      I would far rather money was stolen from me than that I was raped or murdered. I don't understand how you could even compare these things.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  9. Fencing the Goods by Jodka · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Cops Now Steal More from Citizens than do Actual Criminals.

    --
    Ceci n'est pas une signature.
    1. Re:Fencing the Goods by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Domain seized by ICE. We protect you from terrorists by taking down shady overseas merchants and then turning around and selling those counterfeit assets at profit to run our agency. Somewhere along the line, we almost stopped 9/11. So stop all the downloading of Adele's new album or we will kill you.

    2. Re:Fencing the Goods by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cops Now Steal More from Citizens ...

      While forfeiture laws were passed in my country last year, the police use a different way to raise revenue: They don't tell anyone how to obey the law. This works only on those crimes that are punished by a hefty fine, which, starting last year, included a large number of soft crimes. But the real question is, why aren't special-interest businesses (although some interests, like owning a car aren't that unique) telling their customers how to obey the law? It's a conspiracy of silence all around.

  10. Why not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sure, I want to go give the cops money for stealing shit from people.

  11. Re:Can I bid on the cash cops seized without warra by KGIII · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That's included too, as far as I know. I've seen lots of nice stuff - at great prices. I will not buy them. I will not contribute to this, I find it abhorrent. You go to prison as punishment, not to be punished. If they can prove they are ill-gotten gains then the funds should go towards the reparation or rehabilitation but that aspect seems to be lacking. "Oh, no receipt? Well, we'll just be taking this." There's no real due process there and, as such, it's deplorable.

    I can buy lots of this stuff - some of it is nice. I don't. I won't. *sighs* Someone else will but it does make me feel good to not contribute.

    --
    "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  12. Re:Can I bid on the cash cops seized without warra by KGIII · · Score: 2

    It looks like these items (from following a few links posted in the thread) are not - in fact, taken as civil forfeiture or as ill gotten gains but are from judgments handed down with due process. Hmm... I don't know if it's possible to be sure but it looks like there is some information attached. Heh. Maybe I can buy some stuff and not feel like I'm contributing to the process.

    (I felt obligated to make this clear, my first post was under the impression that that's what it was - given the summary and I sure as hell didn't read the article or do one iota of research.)

    --
    "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  13. Re:Can I bid on the cash cops seized without warra by Hizonner · · Score: 1

    I don't see where any of the items on the auction site actually link to their history. The only links like that are the couple of links that were in the news story.

    You're going to have everything from the actual proceeds of crimes people were actually convicted of, to things closely related to such crimes, to stuff taken with criminal convictions, but under punitive statutes that are designed to confiscate basically all of somebody's property (and effectively impose unconstitutional excessive fines under a different name), to stuff taken under civil standards of evidence and procedure that don't remotely approach "due process".

    How are you going to tell the difference?

  14. Re:Can I bid on the cash cops seized without warra by KGIII · · Score: 1

    The linked PDFs to items tell you enough information to Google from there. One lady, below, had a bunch of trophies. It turned out that it's being auctioned to pay off the 57 million USD she embezzled. If I were into trophies then I'd consider that. The house looks pretty nice - I didn't find that up for auction.

    --
    "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  15. Re:Can I bid on the cash cops seized without warra by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

    One thing I happened to notice is that they're selling a bunch of poker tables. If I were to guess, these were taken from people who were running illegal casinos. I wonder if they ever considered that the new owner might do the same. Or perhaps, they're hoping the new owner will do the same...

  16. Should I bid? by superdave80 · · Score: 1

    One auction includes a wine collection of approximately 2,800 bottles seized from once prominent wine dealer Rudy Kurniawan, who is serving a 10-year federal prison sentence following his conviction of selling millions of dollars of counterfeit wine.

    Man, they must think I'm stupid or something...

  17. With the same brush by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... to give back to victims ...

    This time they are. But the forfeiture system is corrupt and all instances of it should be avoided by the public. It's the only way to make bureaucrats listen. Vote with your wallets, people.

  18. Nice by nospam007 · · Score: 1

    Where I live, for some reason alcoholic beverages never make to the evidence room.

  19. Wait did you say shopping? by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

    Wait did you say shopping? *Zips fly*

    --

    Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

  20. LOL at the prices by tibit · · Score: 1

    I've been looking at some of the prices the auctions start at, and they can be ridiculous. This is mostly used merchandise, and some items it list for more than the same or comparable item would cost new if I just went to the store to buy it. Many prices are very reasonable, though.

    --
    A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
  21. Re:This Auction Is For Horses by Coren22 · · Score: 1

    Forgot the AC box?

    I find the Cow thing hilarious, I don't know why people spew hate about it.

    That one was particularly on topic and funny.

    --
    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  22. Re:This Auction Is For Horses by Coren22 · · Score: 1

    Oh, and they also have cow hides lower down.

    http://www.txauction.com/detai...
    http://www.txauction.com/detai...
    http://www.txauction.com/detai...

    --
    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  23. Coren22 rapes & murders himself, lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Coren22 IMPERSONATES RESPECTED MEMBERS OF THE SECURITY COMMUNITY http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    ---

    "privilege escalation's a bad thing" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015

    How else programmatically update it?

    "requires elevation to write hosts" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015

    Hypocrite later admits it - hosts do vs. WFP/SFP not my ware. Users set it not programmatic impersonation. Security wares need it.

    ---

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    Mr. Steven Burn of Malwarebytes

    "yes I've seen the code & yes it is safe." FROM http://forum.hosts-file.net/vi...

    ---

    "we should avoid your crap it looks like malware." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Monday November 02, 2015 @03:52PM (#50850445)

    60++ reputable sources say different:

    64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

    +

    32-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

    &

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    MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...

    ---

    "MiTM... his software provides" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

    Hardcoded favs users provide = REVERSE DNS verified & my ware filters 5,500++ false positives - security site hosts data = false positives filtered.

    ---

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    Show us where I say it? Not illogic logic but where I say it. I say AD needs internal DNS far back as 2007

    http://forums.tweaktown.com/wi...

    See "To warn users who have ActiveDirectory/AD LAN-WAN setups to NOT use external DNS servers" there.

    APK

    P.S.=>

    "modding you down for trolling in your signature" - by Dog-Cow (21281) on Wednesday November 25, 2015

    Dog-Cow's (old acc't. no new sockpuppet from you) thoughts of your signatures about me

    ... apk

  24. Re:This Auction Is For Horses by sexconker · · Score: 1

    I love the cow thing and sometimes do it, but never as AC.
    No idea why my post was marked as troll. Anyone who RTFA or clicked the link to the auction would see why I made that post. (Hint: The auction is filled with thousands of horse-related items.)

  25. Coren22: Tell us of "Bolting on 'MoAr'", lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    YOU BLEW IT BADLY HERE especially -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    See subject & my last post you replied to Coren22: BIND doesn't come w/ Windows, the most used OS there is by the most folks on the desktop!

    (LMAO - I own you... YOU, have been DOMINATED!)

    APK

    P.S.=> You're efficiency is poor - Less IS truly MORE in using what you already have (hosts + firewalls) as I do, & to do more with less... apk

  26. Coren22: Tell us of "Bolting on 'MoAr'", lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    YOU BLEW IT BADLY HERE especially -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    See subject & my last post you replied to Coren22: BIND doesn't come w/ Windows, the most used OS there is by the most folks on the desktop!

    (LMAO - I own you... YOU, have been DOMINATED!)

    APK

    P.S.=> You're efficiency is poor - Less IS truly MORE in using what you already have (hosts + firewalls) as I do, & to do more with less... apk