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Last Operating Magnox Nuclear Reactor Closes

nojayuk writes: The world's last operating Magnox nuclear reactor, Wylfa 1 in Anglesey, Wales was closed yesterday after providing carbon-free power for over 40 years. Wylfa1 was originally scheduled to shut in 2012 along with the adjacent Wylfa 2 reactor but it was kept operating for another three years with the innovative use of partially-burnt fuel from Wylfa 2 and remaining stocks of fresh Magnox fuel. The reactor will be defuelled and move into its decommissioning phase over the next year. The Magnox design used gas-cooling and a carbon moderator with the capability to produce weapons-grade plutonium depending on how it was fuelled and operated. Its design fed into the next-generation AGRs which provide about 6GW of Britain's electricity supply today.

98 comments

  1. Magnox... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Smart... Very smart.

    1. Re:Magnox... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First they came to get rid of the coal plants, but I didn't say anything because I don't sell coal.

      Then they came to get rid of the nules, but I didn't say anything because I don't sell uranium

      ....etc., etc.

    2. Re:Magnox... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean a winter that's pretty much been the windiest winter on record and whose temperatures have been Autumnal rather than wintry?

    3. Re:Magnox... by KenDiPietro · · Score: 2

      Apparently, you are unaware that solar energy can be stored, whether we look at photovoltaic being stored in batteries or solar thermal being stored in thermal reservoirs.

      It's a new world, friend.

    4. Re: Magnox... by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      You mean unseasonably mild?

    5. Re:Magnox... by MountainLogic · · Score: 2

      Also pumped hydro energy storage is an existing utility scale option for intermitent renewables. With limited transmission capacity such as between the pacific northwest's hydro dams and California it is a great way to store energy from off peak transmission for use during peak usage.

    6. Re:Magnox... by gweihir · · Score: 0

      Selective ignorance is one of the main characteristics of the nuclear-apologists. In the end they want it for the military power thy think it gives them.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    7. Re:Magnox... by cnaumann · · Score: 4, Informative

      Unfortunately, it really is not. Pumped hydro energy storage facilities do work; they are reasonably efficient and they can store a lot of energy. But you have to have a pretty unique combination of geology and hydrology to build such a facility.

      The energy storage problems really is THE ISSUE with solar and wind. There is no magic answer.

    8. Re:Magnox... by Uecker · · Score: 2

      Well, it is an issue and there is no magic answer. It is just not that big of an issue as the opponents of wind and solar seem to believe. And there are many partial solutions which can be combined. First, solar fits well to the demand curve, so it usually does not have to be stored in the first place. Also wind and solar often complement each other well. This is the reason pumped-storage is currently underutilized in Germany despite a having a huge share of renewables. Then you can have a large enough grid to average production in space - then you do not need to average as much in time (i.e. store). To make it larger, you can trade electricity with your neighbours. You can also have reserve power plants for times where production is low. In fact, you need to have them anyway - even with nuclear power, because a nuclear power plant might just drop out for some technical reason any time.

    9. Re:Magnox... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The energy storage problems really is THE ISSUE with solar and wind. There is no magic answer.

      You are confining your assertion to photovoltaic when solar thermal solutions have no such issues. In fact, when heat is kept as heat, we see easily built storage as well as good efficiency when compared to other with other heating options.

      What needs to be improved is the conversion between solar thermal and electricity generation. Companies, such as Echogen, are working on this problem but the lion's share of research money seems to be being plowed into better photovoltaics.

    10. Re:Magnox... by sycodon · · Score: 2

      Don't most windmills shut down in winds like they are having now?

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    11. Re:Magnox... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I can order it online or pick it up at Home Dept, it will be a new world.

      Until then it's merely a jerkoff fantasy for you solar shills.

    12. Re:Magnox... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they have to be a lot higher than that.

    13. Re:Magnox... by POPE+Mad+Mitch · · Score: 1

      Solar fits the demand curve ? Maybe in a hot country where there is lots of air con, but not in the UK. Go check sites like gridwatch for the actual demand curves, peak demand is early evenings, currently around 6pm, long after its dark.

    14. Re:Magnox... by Uecker · · Score: 1

      Actual data for Germany can be found here:

      https://www.ise.fraunhofer.de/...

      See the "Recent facts.." document (page 61, figure 52).

    15. Re:Magnox... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must live pretty close to the pole if 6pm is LONG after dark.

    16. Re:Magnox... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I read about an interesting project a while back, and forgive me if my memory is a bit fuzzy on the details, but I believe the project was based in a large US city with the goal of processing sewage to produce energy. The goal was to produce fuel oil or gas that could then be consumed in more traditional types of generators, but one of the biggest concerns was the amount of energy required for the processing. It also brought to mind a similar process that has been used by a small community in Alaska to produce fuel oil by recycling plastics. Again, a process that requires a great deal of energy, and is only just breaking even by the time it's all factored in.

      Thinking on that, however, it struck me that a great method of energy storage for surplus wind/solar would be oil or hydrogen. Why would you not use all of the available surplus wind/solar power to produce fuels that already have a viable market and broadly adopted infrastructure for storage and (lossless) transportation, which can then be easily used by existing generation facilities to produce power when required?

  2. Carbon free power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nuclear is so great because it doesn't emit nature's nutrient CO2. It does however produce toxic waste that will need to be buried and managed for the next million years and there is always risk of nuclear meltdown that can kill everyone in the area, but that's better than CO2!

    1. Re:Carbon free power by LQ · · Score: 2

      According to EDF, the carbon footprint of a nuclear power station – the average level of greenhouse gas emissions it is responsible for over its lifetime, from construction to decommissioning – is about 16 grams of carbon dioxide-equivalent for each kilowatt-hour of electricity it generates (gCO2e/kWh).

    2. Re:Carbon free power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Or you can just use the remaining energy in the nuclear 'waste' for useful purposes.

    3. Re:Carbon free power by blackpaw · · Score: 2

      nature's nutrient CO2.

      Please, shut yourself in a room full of "Natures Nutrient" and survive on that.

      buried and managed for the next million years

      Also, learn some basic physics. And the meaning of the word "Hyperbole"

    4. Re:Carbon free power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please, think before you speak.

      http://www.stopthegreatlakesnucleardump.com

      http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2013/07/10/global-warming-no-satellites-show-carbon-dioxide-is-causing-global-greening/

    5. Re:Carbon free power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Such as expanding American hegemony?

    6. Re:Carbon free power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    7. Re:Carbon free power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are aware that nature created its own nuclear reactor long ago right?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_nuclear_fission_reactor

      Somehow that didn't lead to the end of the world or anything despite it being "unprotected".

    8. Re:Carbon free power by KenDiPietro · · Score: 2

      Please, think before you speak.

      http://www.stopthegreatlakesnucleardump.com

      http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2013/07/10/global-warming-no-satellites-show-carbon-dioxide-is-causing-global-greening/

      Still, a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest...

    9. Re:Carbon free power by BitZtream · · Score: 2

      . It does however produce toxic waste that will need to be buried and managed for the next million years

      No, it doesn't.

      They do produce toxic waste, so does coal, gas, solar and wind if you stop ignoring certain parts of the production process that produce the toxic bits. Photovoltaic is WAY fucking worse than nuclear when you take production byproduct into account.

      Things with long half lives aren't very dangerous. Anything that last that long is about as dangerous as lead ... If you EAT ENOUGH OF IT ... Just like lead.

      The dangerous parts have half lives numbered in single digit years or days. 12 years is about the longest half life of the 'dangerous stuff', which means you stop caring in a hundred years or so AT MOST.

      You have to get down into hours and minutes of half life before its dangerous just being near it as long as you don't inhale or eat it.

      The danger with nuclear materials to living tissue is the energy release during radioactive decay. Long half live = little energy emissions = lower risk. Short half life = higher emissions in the same period of time = higher danger level.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    10. Re:Carbon free power by clovis · · Score: 2

      According to EDF, the carbon footprint of a nuclear power station – the average level of greenhouse gas emissions it is responsible for over its lifetime, from construction to decommissioning – is about 16 grams of carbon dioxide-equivalent for each kilowatt-hour of electricity it generates (gCO2e/kWh).

      Now that is interesting.
      From the same web site, we see the carbon footprint for solar cells is 4.5 times greater than that of a nuke.
      https://www.edfenergy.com/ener...

      The carbon footprint of a solar photovoltaic (PV) panel – the average level of greenhouse gas emissions it is responsible for over its lifetime – is about 72 grams of carbon dioxide-equivalent per kilowatt-hour of electricity generated (gCO2e/kWh) .

    11. Re:Carbon free power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Such as expanding American hegemony?

      Now that's a good idea - using nuclear waste to expand American hegemony.
      Pray tell us how that would be done.
      Is there any role for the small investor in using nuclear waste to expand American hegemony? I'd like to get in on it.

    12. Re:Carbon free power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How would you like this in your backyard?

      http://www.stopthegreatlakesnucleardump.com

      That's the fight being waged where I live right now. They're saying 100,000 years. When was the last time there was a Chernobyl or Fukushima type event for coal power? Coal plants with scrubbers don't pollute unless you consider CO2 pollution. Plus it's so cheap and plentiful. We also have solar and wind power here. The $9+ billion rebuild of our nuclear power plants plus government subsidies to wind and solar has resulted in my province paying the highest prices for electricity in North America. Manufacturing jobs have been leaving in droves.

      When we had coal power and were producing too much power, we could just shut it down. We could ramp up and down our power generation as needed. Our nuclear plants take weeks to start up and shut down, so instead we now sell the excess power to the US and neighbouring provinces below the cost of generation which results in locals paying billions extra for our electricity.

      https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2015/12/02/ontario-consumers-likely-paying-billions-extra-for-hydro-one-decisions-auditor-general.html
      https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2014/01/20/ontario_paid_1_billion_to_dump_excess_electricity_in_2013_ndp.html
      http://www.torontosun.com/2015/08/12/ontario-taxpayers-spend-200-million-on-exported-electricity-in-june
      http://www.windontario.ca

      This is just one of many very costly Liberal government scandals here in Ontario.

    13. Re:Carbon free power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So how does Jimmy here get the proof that satellites show CO2 is not absorptive at the far IR range around 15 microns?

      Oh, it doesn't.

      Pity.

    14. Re:Carbon free power by Halo1 · · Score: 1

      Photovoltaic is WAY fucking worse than nuclear when you take production byproduct into account.

      That very much depends on the manufacturer. Even in the US there are several that score quite well in this regard (under the thresholds set by the EU, which has the most stringent related rules in the world).

      --
      Donate free food here
    15. Re:Carbon free power by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Fascinating level of ignorance you display there. People like you are truly blessed they live far, far too short to have to suffer the consequences of their deeds.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    16. Re:Carbon free power by BitZtream · · Score: 2

      If you built it in my back yard, you'd be an idiot since I live near a sandy coastline, which means it could leech into the ecosystem rapidly. Rather you bury it somewhere that its going to have a really hard time getting out of while its still dangerous ... like all the current storage sites, you put it in a massive salt deposit, which naturally seals itself. Problem fucking solved. I'll build a brand new house for me and my son right on top of the thing and live a happy life if it means we can actually fucking use nuclear power elsewhere without all you idiots acting like its going to kill as all.

      I'm not an ignorant paranoid nut job and actually understand whats dangerous and why. You should try it sometime.

      You're the kind of person that will die from cancer or mercury poisoning from the coal powered plant 2 states over that produces way more toxic output and pushes more radioactive materials into the atmosphere than all nuclear accidents combined, plus the bombs dropped on Japan, plus all the atmospheric nuclear testing thats been done because you're too stupid to understand whats dangerous and whats not and you continue to believe idiots. And you'll ignore that that is only one plant out of thousands around the globe.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    17. Re:Carbon free power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is the half life of any toxic waste from using solar to produce electricity? Is it 10,000 years, like the waste from nukes?

    18. Re:Carbon free power by epine · · Score: 1

      after providing carbon-free power for over 40 years

      Ever since the Persian flying carpet strike, we've had to return to rotund, diesel trucks to deliver the concrete. Between the Persian carpets and splitting the atom, for a couple of years it almost looked like we had it made there.

      Moral of the story: don't piss off the Persian carpets. First day of picketing lasts a thousand years.

    19. Re:Carbon free power by stabiesoft · · Score: 1

      Umm, churnobyl blew in 86 (~30 years) and it is still very hot in the core, the hospital that treated the victims, and several other places. Workers still wear dosemeters. So feel free to get a job as part of the cleanup there. Everyone has a favorite source of energy that thinks it is clean as a whistle. The ugly truth is they are all disruptive to nature and there are too bloody many humans with more popping out all the time who need(want) energy and nature is having trouble restoring balance.

    20. Re:Carbon free power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh yeah, I've seen that website. Lol, they think the lifetime of a solar panel is 5 years!

    21. Re:Carbon free power by cnaumann · · Score: 1

      . 12 years is about the longest half life of the 'dangerous stuff', which means you stop caring in a hundred years or so AT MOST

      Bullcrap. cesium-137, strontium-90 and iodine-131 have half lives much longer than 12 years and are and are some of the more dangerous nuclear byproducts out there. You are a damned fool if you think you can stop caring about these after "100 years of so."

      You are right in that materials with very long half lives are not that dangerous due to the fact that they are not that radioactive. Stuff with very short half lives does not stick around for a long time so it is not a long-term hazard. But you are WAY off in your assertion that a spent fuel rod is perfectly safe after a 100 years of so.

    22. Re:Carbon free power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      >http://www.stopthegreatlakesnucleardump.com

      Garbage scare site. Example of their trash:

      "Ontario Power Generation plans to bury and abandon radioactive nuclear waste approximately 400 metres below the bottom level ofLake Huron. Scientists cannot guarantee that this Nuclear Waste Dump will not leak."

      Guess what? Scientists also cannot guarantee that a meteorite won't wipe out most of the planet as well.

      Not a single word on the front page actually has any scientific opinion backing it, other than a positive one that no leaks are going to occur, other than the quote I included, which is trash.

      The trouble nuclear power has is the ignorance of science. And that site serves as a great example. I'll make sure to present it to people as proof of this issue.

      >That's the fight being waged where I live right now.

      I live in Southern Ontario too, and I will not fight it because I understand science.

      >Our nuclear plants take weeks to start up and shut down, so instead we now sell the excess power to the US and neighbouring provinces below the cost of generation which results in locals paying billions extra for our electricity.

      Oh yes, all the expenses related to electricity in Ontario are related 50%+ to the fact we sell excess generation to the US. All of it! It has absolutely nothing to do with saddling Ontario Hydro with a failed privatization project (That will be happening again, yay!), a debt retirement that didn't retire debt from the last time but will be deleted from our bills, government fixed selling costs below the cost of generation, and a government mandate that Ontario Hydro is forced to pay over 80 cents per kw to anyone who installed solar panels a while back (and it's still over 30 cents for new installs today). Nope! None of that is the problem!

      Sigh, people like you are why Ontario can't have nice things. :*(

    23. Re:Carbon free power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So assuming the 72 grams is based on a 5-year lifespan, that would mean the solar panel's lifespan would have to instead be 22.5 years.

      For home use, I could believe this, given that people are often buying solar panel's at prices that require a 30-year payback.

      But do you honestly believe that a corporation operating an industrial scale solar plant would not be replacing panels sooner that 22.5 years to take advantage of technology improvements? And if they do, what happens to the old panels? Do they sell them to be used elsewhere? Do they get recycled?

      In any case, the argument for nuclear is clear. We should do a crash course (like the chinese are doing NOW) to research/build LFTR reactors to take advantage of the massive amounts of thorium we have available, to replace any and all coal fired power plants, which should be decommissioned ASAP.

      Nuclear is NOT the boogey man people would have you believe. LFTR generation 4+ reactors can be designed, built, and run very safely, and would even help to clean up the mess that 'used reactor fuel' is now, by actually using that as fuel.

      At the same time, we should pave the nevada desert with solar panels as well. There's no reason we can't do both.

      At the same time, we could also store all the excess water that is being released into the oceans due to global warming, thus preventing the rise of ocean levels. We could use the excess energy from nuclear to purify this water, and provide free drinking water to the planet, and then use the excess as a way to store energy via gravity (think massive farm of water storage tanks on each continent).

    24. Re:Carbon free power by calidoscope · · Score: 1

      Um, 131I has a half life of 8 days, you may have been thinking of 129I with a half life of 16 million years. 90Sr has a half life of 28.8 years, so it will be pretty much gone in a few hundred years. 137Cs has a half life of 30 years and as with 90Sr, will be pretty much one in a few hundred years - figure the radioactivity declining by a factor of 10 for every century.

      Considering that King Tut's tomb lay undisturbed for ~3,000 years, it doesn't seem to be too much of an effort to keep spent fuel isolated for a few thousand years.

      --
      A Shadeless room is a brighter room.
    25. Re: Carbon free power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you want to prevent the meltwater raising sea levels, then you can't use it for drinking water.

    26. Re: Carbon free power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Grandparent said 100 years, not "a few hundred" or "one thousand".

    27. Re: Carbon free power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He means firing depleted uranium shells at brown people.

    28. Re: Carbon free power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think he means we should hold it in.

    29. Re:Carbon free power by aliquis · · Score: 1

      Had to be AC because of trolling? (That or lobbying?)

      The "waste" can be used to produce even more power, which also lowers the management time by a lot, there's not always(?) the risk of nuclear meltdown either.

      And yes - definitely better than coal.

    30. Re:Carbon free power by dfenstrate · · Score: 1

      Umm, churnobyl blew in 86 (~30 years) and it is still very hot in the core, the hospital that treated the victims, and several other places. Workers still wear dosemeters. So feel free to get a job as part of the cleanup there. Everyone has a favorite source of energy that thinks it is clean as a whistle. The ugly truth is they are all disruptive to nature and there are too bloody many humans with more popping out all the time who need(want) energy and nature is having trouble restoring balance.

      How many Reactors comparable to the RMBK-1000 did anyone outside the Soviet Union build? Zero. You know why? No, you don't, otherwise you wouldn't have posted the rubbish you did.
      The Soviets, in the nuclear arena as well as several others, were special little monsters, who did many, many things that no one would want to emulate.

      --
      Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
    31. Re: Carbon free power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Infinite, since arsenic doesn't decay.

    32. Re:Carbon free power by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Keep in mind that EDF is a French welfare queen company. They have been living on fat subsidies for nuclear power for decades. In fact these reactors were built by the UK government who then found they couldn't sell them off, so they ended up paying a commercial operator to take over while guaranteeing to pay most of the costs.

      They love the nuclear cash cow. Renewables are a huge threat to them, and they have seen what has been happening in Germany. They are fairly accident prone too.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    33. Re:Carbon free power by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      Between the Persian carpets and splitting the atom, [...]

      Oh, so that's what they're doing at Fordow!

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    34. Re: Carbon free power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He means firing depleted uranium shells at brown people.

      rats.
      No money to be made there (outside of the motion picture industry)

    35. Re:Carbon free power by calidoscope · · Score: 1

      The Hanford "N" reactor was somewhat similar to the RMBK-1000 in that it was graphite moderated, light water cooled and produced about 600MWe. It was decommissioned shortly after the Chernobyl incident.

      --
      A Shadeless room is a brighter room.
    36. Re:Carbon free power by clovis · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah, I've seen that website. Lol, they think the lifetime of a solar panel is 5 years!

      No,
      5 years is the average payback time - when the amount generated pays back the cost of manufacturing the panel.
      They averaged some 17 studies to get the 72 g/kWh and those used a lifetime of 25-30 years.

    37. Re:Carbon free power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Hanford "N" reactor was somewhat similar to the RMBK-1000 in that it was graphite moderated, light water cooled and produced about 600MWe. It was decommissioned shortly after the Chernobyl incident.

      Thank you, I was unaware of that. Due to it's uniqueness, I'd say my point still stands. The wikipedia article on the Hannaford N states that it still had a negative void coefficient, unlike the RMBK.

      Anon because Slashdot login is giving me trouble

    38. Re: Carbon free power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      rats. No money to be made there (outside of the motion picture industry)

      You are a fucking ignorant moron

    39. Re:Carbon free power by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      . It does however produce toxic waste that will need to be buried and managed for the next million years

      No, it doesn't.

      The decay rate of pu-239 for the first daughter product is 25,000 years. At twenty halflives for the remaining daughter products it is toxic for 500,000 years.

      Photovoltaic is WAY fucking worse than nuclear when you take production byproduct into account.

      It takes roughly 500 tons of rock to produce a kilo of uranium or the megalitres of sulfuric acid used in the leech minig process. Then there is CFC114 used in the enrichment process of making uranium hexaflouride, then 90% of the uranium is U-238 (only 10% is fuel) is waste and there is about 700,000 tons of that. The reactor process is pretty clean by this stage however in normal operation they vent radioactive gasses. You then have the spent fuels, of which there is 70,000 tons so far and of course the reactor itself which has to be disposed of at the end of it's service life, now with radio-activated parts.

      Things with long half lives aren't very dangerous. Anything that last that long is about as dangerous as lead ... If you EAT ENOUGH OF IT ... Just like lead.

      Which happens through bio-accumulation. For the case of pu-239, 1-10 micrograms which is the fatal dose. Plutonium is an iron analogue, and is very soluble in the form of plutonium chloride. Plutonium oxide is an inhalant. This would trigger leukemia or lung cancer

      Additionally even low energy radionuclides can introduce transgenic disease as these are shown to damage the DNA if they accumulate around the stomach or genitals in fat tissue.

      You have to get down into hours and minutes of half life before its dangerous just being near it as long as you don't inhale or eat it.

      You wouldn't know if it was in the water or in the food you ate, nor the various mechanisms with which it travelled through the food chain to got there. Once it was organically bound in the body, or inhaled, it would substantially increase the risk of gestating a cancer through internal radiation exposure.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    40. Re:Carbon free power by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      If you built it in my back yard, you'd be an idiot since I live near a sandy coastline, which means it could leech into the ecosystem rapidly.

      Like the recently shut down SONGS plant.

      Rather you bury it somewhere that its going to have a really hard time getting out of while its still dangerous ... like all the current storage sites, you put it in a massive salt deposit, which naturally seals itself. Problem fucking solved.

      The biggest issue waste repositories is water flowing through the facility through the waste products. Water erodes salt so that probably wouldn't work.

      That would pretty much ensure you would have a lot of highly soluble plutonium chloride entering the water table.

      I'll build a brand new house for me and my son right on top of the thing and live a happy life if it means we can actually fucking use nuclear power elsewhere without all you idiots acting like its going to kill as all.

      In that scenario, the radionuclides you and your son accumulated would introduce a lot of issues into your DNA, if you survived ingesting the plutonium chloride. You would be sick - a lot.

      I'm not an ignorant paranoid nut job and actually understand whats dangerous and why. You should try it sometime.

      Indeed. You certainly seem to have a healthy understanding of the issues involved, you should persist.

      And you'll ignore that that is only one plant out of thousands around the globe.

      There are approximately 400 reactor sites around the world.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  3. sounds like a huge misunderstanding by nimbius · · Score: 4, Funny

    Almost 45 years later, staff gathered to mark the Reactor One switch-off

    reactor team so rory left on holiday for spain yesterday and told us, rite, to make sure we shut everything off before new years. so i dont know if that means the reactor too or if he wants that on...
    cheeky bloke: he was a right bastard last year 'bout not turning off that kettle in the kitchen though mates...
    reactor team: right right... best to shut off the ole magnox lest he send another of those fiery emails.
    cheeky bloke: nobody!? right. ill get the sodding kettle then.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
  4. Really?"Carbon free"??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So I take it no concrete was used, which exudes CO2, the processing was done via carbon-neutral powered factories, transported by electric cars run off solar power and the mining of the original ore was done without the use of fossil fuel power anywhere, right?

    And I take it it didn't have, as other power stations have, fossil fueled backup generators for the systems, or if it did, they were never used.

    1. Re: Really?"Carbon free"??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go back to reddit, as if PV panels are co2 free.

      Or blasted electric cars.

    2. Re:Really?"Carbon free"??? by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Every instance of solar power you can demonstrate produces FAR more toxic output than an equivalent nuclear power station. Don't think just because we're polluting China's environment that its 'green'.

      PV cells use absolutely ridiculously toxic production processes.

      The factories were probably not carbon neutral until after they had a carbon neutral supply, can't count your chickens before they hatch, but don't let that stop you from making an ass of yourself.

      Then you go on to bitch about emergency safety systems? Fucking seriously? The fire extinguishers at any given data center in the US are far more toxic than the entire generator output of the life span of a nuclear planet's test cycles. And if you think its better to not have a nuclear plant and use something else instead of having generators that are tested once in a while than you are truly demonstrating how stupid you are and how you like to cut off your nose to spite your face.

      And those 'electric cars' you think are so awesome ... get their power from coal and gas fired plants, so they aren't in any way neutral, you, like typical morons just want to ignore the parts of energy production that don't favor your particular favorite method of pretending to be green while being no such thing.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    3. Re:Really?"Carbon free"??? by gweihir · · Score: 1

      There is toxic and then there is toxic. No chemical toxin is a problem after 100'000 years. Not so Plutonium (which was not accidentally named as it is), it has not even begun to decay noticeably after that time. There are quite a few other deadly things in nuclear waste that will be extremely dangerous for > 100'000 years, although none quite as deadly.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    4. Re:Really?"Carbon free"??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and, nuclear reactors use a million times less fuel than chemical based power plants, due to the relative strength of nuclear and chemical bonds, which fuel is then contained instead of thrown out into the atmosphere...

    5. Re: Really?"Carbon free"??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So your claim is that yes, that claim WAS bullshit and that it WASN'T carbon free.

      So why the anger?

    6. Re:Really?"Carbon free"??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you will be unable to provide a SINGLE solar power process that produces more toxic output than uranium mining and refining.

    7. Re:Really?"Carbon free"??? by by+(1706743) · · Score: 1

      Do you also cry foul when a car manufacturer states the mileage their cars get? When an LED or CFL lightbulb says how much juice it draws?

      There's a time and a place to be pedantically literal. But it's perfectly legitimate to ask (implicitly) what the incremental -- excluding manufacture of plant -- CO2 output is per unit of energy, just as it's perfectly legitimate to ask what sort of mileage a car gets, excluding manufacturing costs.

    8. Re:Really?"Carbon free"??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. Then again, anti-renewables and pro-nuke fluffers WILL complain that renewables aren't CO2 free,so why let them BS about how carbon free nukes are?

    9. Re:Really?"Carbon free"??? by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      The fire extinguishers at any given data center in the US are far more toxic than the entire generator output of the life span of a nuclear planet's test cycles.

      Oppenheimers work on pu-239 shows that it is a fatal dose internally in the 1-10 microgram range. The current stocks of pu-239 are around 70,000 tons which is more than enough doses, if released, to kill every person on the planet before considering other radioactive effluents of the Nuclear industry.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  5. Re:One less target by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think you're confusing terrorist groups with an entire religion of people here. A common mistake.

  6. Strangely things are rather different by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Being pushed and shoved by crowds of determined shoppers can leave even the calmest among us hot and bothered.
    But if the stress of braving the sales isn't enough, there's something else that could be making you break into a sweat.

    For despite the unseasonably warm weather, some shopping centres feel like they have their heating on at full blast.

    Visitors to one shop at the Westfield centre in west London faced sweltering temperatures of 29.4C (85F) yesterday, our study found.
    In many other stores, including H&M, River Island and M&S, the heat reached more than 26C (79F).

    This means customers had to rifle through the racks in higher temperatures than those soaking up the sun in Sydney yesterday – where it was a balmy 25C (77F).

    Conditions were not much better elsewhere; shops at the Bluewater centre in Kent reached up to 27.4C (81F), while the Trafford Centre in Manchester and Newcastle's Eldon Square saw highs of 24C (75F). The findings came as outside temperatures are up to 12C higher than normal for December.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3378217/It-s-hot-shop-Temperatures-stores-hit-30C-making-warmer-Sydney.html#ixzz3vuntk593

    Much of Britain has been basking in temperatures closer to summer than winter and the fourth-warmest start to December since 1960 is set to continue, forecasters have said.

    However, the mild weather is also bringing heavy rain, prompting the Met Office to issue severe-weather warnings for Friday in Scotland and much of the western UK on Saturday.

    The balmy winter echoes the global trend with 2015 already declared as planet Earth’s warmest year on record. On Monday, Gavin Schmidt, the director of Nasa’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies, tweeted that this year would be a “scorcher” compared with previous years.

    And the Met Office has predicted that next year the world would be even warmer still, forecasting the global average temperature for 2016 would be between 14.72C and 14.96C, compared with the average from 1961 to 1990 of 14C.

    It was mid-April in 1802 when William Wordsworth “wandered lonely as a cloud” in the Lake District and was taken by “a host of dancing daffodils”, but the flower most associated with spring has already bloomed as far north as Cheshire this winter.

    In London, temperatures hit 16C today – the average for June in the city – while much of the rest of the country saw 13C to 15C. It is expected to get even warmer.

    ---

    Yay reality, not at all what you proclaim, eh?

    1. Re: Strangely things are rather different by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The advantage of getting older is the perspective it brings. I remember sitting on a Channel beach in my swimming shorts during the new year holiday sometime in the 80ies. Nil nove sub sole, but you may have to wait another generation to experience such a balmy winter again. Enjoy while it lasts.

    2. Re:Strangely things are rather different by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Born in Vancouver BC, Canada.

      Living in the UK for the last decade.

      The British have insane attitudes towards inside temperature management. My heating systems has a timer on it to turn it off and on. It is seriously the most insane way to manage heating systems. I get that malls maybe somewhat more complex, but it is not that much more complex.

      If the British can't manage the temperature inside their building in a half sane way, what hope do we have for actually achieving anything as lofty as world peace?

    3. Re:Strangely things are rather different by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Localized weather anomalies are not, by themselves, indicative of Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming/Change. In fact, the most ardent supporters of the theory have been quite clear that they are not related and that localized fluctuations are not "climate."

      This does not negate the theory. This is simply pointing out that anomalous weather is not, in and of itself, indicative of long-term changes.

      That said, I'm kind of old and have noticed some weather patterns in my lifetime. One of the things that I've noticed is that Maine's winters are, generally, no longer what they were like from when I was but a wee lad and ended up coming to Maine to attend school. So, somewhere between the time when I was a teen in high school and today, the weather (not climate) seems to have changed as both summers and winters are much milder than I recollect.

      That latter part comes with the caveat that I'm not a climate scientist and am not offering my anecdote as anything authoritative or necessarily significant. It is an observation, perhaps inaccurate, and not being submitted as an indicator of anything.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  7. 72 grams for solar by Tokolosh · · Score: 1

    The carbon footprint of a solar photovoltaic (PV) panel – the average level of greenhouse gas emissions it is responsible for over its lifetime – is about 72 grams of carbon dioxide-equivalent per kilowatt-hour of electricity generated (gCO2e/kWh) .

    https://www.edfenergy.com/ener...

    --
    Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
    1. Re:72 grams for solar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The other problem is where and how the polution is made.

      Electric cars are better then fossil fuel due to that. You are centralizing the polution production on a point where you can (if you want) do something about it.

      And counting CO2 is not enough.

      How are we counting the radioactive storage of the subproducts etc? They don't produce CO2, but for sure they create a problem for the future generations to sort out.

    2. Re:72 grams for solar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What do you mean? We are leaving a highly concentrated resource, that requires vast resources to gather and purify, for future generations to use

      It is simply a matter of containment and warning, which is impossible in a world where constant lawsuits keep us from building long-term storage facilities

  8. Plutonium by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is also used for termal power in long range space probes:

    http://www.wired.com/2013/09/plutonium-238-problem/

  9. Nice by nospam007 · · Score: 0

    "closed yesterday after providing carbon-free power for over 40 years. "

    And now we only have to guard the ashes they produced for a couple of hundred thousand years.

    1. Re:Nice by rl117 · · Score: 2

      This isn't the US though and spent fuel won't be left lying around at the rector site indefinitely. As the article states the fuel will be offloaded and sent away to be reprocessed. Afterward, like other similar sites, they'll remove the turbine hall and other ancillary buildings, then leave the reactor to sit for a few decades to allow the residual radioactivity to decay to almost nothing before (carefully) demolishing it entirely. In a relatively short time, it will be a greenfield site you would never know had a reactor on it.

    2. Re:Nice by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Ahem, the fuel is left around at the site for decades. Google "dirty 30". Pools of spent fuel, open to the elements, waste carried off by birds... The UK does not have a good track record on this.

      Also, guess who is paying for this. It isn't the operator, EDF.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:Nice by rl117 · · Score: 1

      That's the reprocessing facility, Sellafield. And there's a reason for that particular building 30 being a mess if you read the history, not that it makes it right. Fuel is not left at power stations.

    4. Re:Nice by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      In a relatively short time, it will be a greenfield site you would never know had a reactor on it.

      You mean a BROWNfield site. It won't be a GREENfield site until either the planet gets re-surfaced, or someone actually comes up with a sensible definition of the terms.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    5. Re:Nice by rl117 · · Score: 1

      I'm actually using the correct terminology here. They are required to return the site to a "greenfield" state. And no land stays brown; it grasses over naturally very quickly so it's rather more accurate than brownfield.

    6. Re:Nice by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
      Do you have source for a "legal" definition of those terms then, because as a geologist with a side serving of soil science, I find it hard to believe that they could actually return any site to a close approximation of land and soils developed on a boulder clay and other glacial debris for 9000-odd years. Sure they could grass it over, but anybody could grass over a toxic waste site well enough to fool - for example - an estate agent who didn't want the flow of his advertising spoiled by inconvenient truths.

      The site remediation standards I've had to work to in the past have simply been "remove everything less than 6ft (2m) below seabed". Which is somewhat less challenging then "brownfield" versus "greenfield" - due to the sea bed bit rather reducing the chance of people living on top of it (just dredging fish and seafood off the bottom).

      We have square miles of local quarries which, after economic limits were reached, were used to dump waste from local cities. Then, when they were full, remaining overburden from the quarrying was redistributed for 5 or so metres over the top, and top soil from building sites dozens of miles away, and grassed. Great - if you're an estate agent. If you actually look at the grass - wrong grasses. If you look at the trees - wrong trees (and wrong age distribution). If you look at the soil - a complete jumble. And the methane venting pipes for the landfill rather give the game away too.

      (Actually, if the oil price crash hadn't got in the way, I might have had to do more detailed work on a site remediation project. But that would have been in a different country of the nation, so [SHRUG]. OTOH, working with an established expert would have been a useful thread for the CV.)

      Ah, I think I see the issue. US usage of "brownfield" seems to specifically denote land that has been "contaminated" by previous use, whereas British usage is specifically for land which has been built on. So, for example, an outdoor pig-growing field (for producing "organic", "sustainable", "happy animal" pig flesh at the lowest possible cost) might easily fulfil the US definition (contaminated by nitrates in the piss, plus whatever pig-parasites are present), but not the British definition (hasn't been built on for hundreds, if not thousands, of years), whereas a different site (Shakespeare's old house) would fulfil the British definition (built on), but not the American (not significantly contaminated, outside the cess pit).

      Muddy waters.

      Annoyingly I was 3 pages of Google results before I found a definition from a .GOV.TLD source. Lots of non-definitive sources out there, few of whom actually cite their sources.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  10. The path humanity should take: by kheldan · · Score: 1

    (Disclaimer: This is my opinion)

    Over the next, say, 20 to 30 years:
    o Planned shutdown of current-technology Uranium-based reactors and fossil fuel-based power plants
    o Continued and expanded supplementation with so-called 'renewable' sources (wind, solar, etc)
    o Develop and begin deploying LFTR (thorium-based) reactors
    o Continue R&D into hydrogen fusion technology, towards a commercially-viable solution

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    1. Re:The path humanity should take: by by+(1706743) · · Score: 1

      One of the "problems" with fusion is that you get neutrons. You can just slow down these neutrons to generate heat, which gives you some energy of course. Or, you can use U238 (very abundant!) to breed plutonium, which you can then burn in a conventional (fission) reactor. So unfortunately, while the fusion aspect may be clean, you're just leaving money on the table if you're not running a fission reactor from the byproduct...

    2. Re:The path humanity should take: by kheldan · · Score: 1

      I'd just as soon that we got away from using uranium or plutonium for anything, except maybe in RTGs for long-range space probes. Otherwise the stuff is too much of a pain the ass to deal with.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
  11. North Korea, thorium by emil · · Score: 1

    The wiki says that North Korea generates all of their weapons plutonium from this design, but unfortunately not go into any detail on how the plutonium is removed and purified.

    I had never heard of Magnox before - it's quite interesting that non-enriched, direct ore uranium can be used as fuel. I had imagined that only a liquid salt thorium reactor could accomplish this, but it does appear that fuel reprocessing costs for Magnox are much higher.

    1. Re:North Korea, thorium by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The original CANDU design was also one that could use natural uranium as a fuel, and could burn "spent" fuel after letting it sit for a couple months/years to allow byproducts to decay to a point that they would no longer poison the reaction. The CANDU design is also quite safe, and outside of concerns with plutonium production proliferation, would be a better design than many GENIII and GENIV reactors for power production.

    2. Re:North Korea, thorium by dunkelfalke · · Score: 2

      There are several reactor designs that can run on natural uranium. CANDU, RBMK (like the one in Chernobyl - although they use enriched uranium nowadays for safety reasons), UNGG...
      The key is either graphite or heavy water moderation, because light water absorbs too many neutrons.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
  12. oh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I suppose it had reached its Zenith?

  13. Can think of a few by Goonie · · Score: 1

    Lead. Mercury. Asbestos.

    --

    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
    --Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
    1. Re:Can think of a few by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Not in the same class, even remotely. You can reliably cause lung cancer with just 1 gram of Plutonium in 1'000'000 people.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  14. Wylfa local (once) here by illtud · · Score: 1

    Hmm. Wylfa - will I miss it? It's the largest employer on Anglesey, giving fairly good jobs to a shedload of people. Good jobs-for-life jobs. One thing to note is that it will continue to employ a good many people for a while yet, nuclear reactors don't shut down overnight, even if they're not producing any electricity. It used to power the local aluminum smelter, the largest single customer of electricity in the UK until it shut down in 2009.

    We were very proud of it growing up in the bright-eyed technologically embracing 60s to 80s. Chernobyl cast a dark shadow on the industry in 86, especially in North Wales where the fallout meant that restrictions on highland sheep farming were only lifted in 2012 (yes, 2012, think on that those that think that Chernobyl wasn't that bad - 1500 miles away farmers were restricted for for 26 years).

    I'm a nuclear believer, and there are plans for Wylfa B, a new nuclear generator, which I think is already a done deal. The inhabitants of Anglesey are divided over whether it would be a good thing (employment) or a Fukushima waiting to happen, but energy planning is not devolved to the people of Wales, so it's unlikely that local opposition will carry much weight in the decision. The biggest factor is how much subsidy the (UK) government will promise the French or Chinese investors for their nuclear megawatt-hour. Hinkley Point in England has been awarded £92.50, about 2x the current price of electricity guaranteed for 35 years, and the waste problem is owned (and paid for) by the government.

    The fact that companies need shoveling crazy amounts of subsidy to build any reactors with the government picking up the bill for final waste management worries me that nuclear aint the glorious shizz that I was sold as a child in the 80s. On the other hand, if the UK government are hoofing megabucks somewhere, I'd rather it went to the incredibly beautiful but poor island of Anglesey than not.