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Linux Kernel 4.4 LTS Officially Released

Posted by timothy on from the happy-new-year! dept.

prisoninmate writes: January 10, 2016, will enter in the Linux history books as the day when the Linux kernel 4.4 LTS (Long-Term Support) has been officially released by Linus Torvalds and his team of hard working kernel developers. Prominent features of Linux kernel 4.4 LTS include 3D support in the virtual GPU driver, allowing for 3D hardware-accelerated graphics in virtualization guests, a leaner and faster loop device that supports Asynchronous I/O and Direct I/O, thus increasing the system's performance and saving memory, and support for Open-Channel Solid State Drives (SSDs) through LightNVM. Phoronix also took a look during the newest kernel's development cycle, and has an overview of 4.4's new features.

132 comments

  1. will it by sirber · · Score: 1

    play crysis?

    --
    Be or ben't
    1. Re:will it by Mike+Frett · · Score: 1

      Via Wine, yes. And it's been reported that Crytek is adding Native support. Yes, I know it was a joke...

    2. Re:will it by sirber · · Score: 1

      :) I ment that I can't wait to have better GPU driver support so I can ditch windows...

      --
      Be or ben't
  2. The LTS release is a yawner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    b/c he would save any risky new stuff for one or two point releases down the road.

    1. Re:The LTS release is a yawner by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      3D support in virtual machines is kind of nice though, I like that.
      I don't even know what Open Channel SSDs are, though.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    2. Re:The LTS release is a yawner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm disappointed that 4.4 and not 4.2 is the LTS release. That one would be the answer to my question.

    3. Re:The LTS release is a yawner by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I thought it was supposed to natively support upgrading without needing to reboot. :/ I should probably read the article but I have standards. To me, that's the most interesting thing. It can be done with kexec right now (I think?) but having it native and automated would be kind of nice. I might never have to reboot again! That'll save like 30 seconds every month! Or, more seriously, just let me keep doing what I'm doing without feeling an urge to reboot and load the new kernel.

      For the record, I have kexec installed on this computer but I don't think I've ever bothered reading the man pages and using it. I probably should.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    4. Re:The LTS release is a yawner by Lennie · · Score: 1

      You are probably talking about live-kernel patching (kGraft - Suse, kpatch - RedHat, sort of similar to ksplice - now Oracle).

      Because that is all it is:
      security updates without reboot.

      Not: new functionality or large bugfixes.

      kexec is cool, but kexec just means: faster reboot into new kernel (no waiting on the BIOS, etc.). The old kernel starts a new kernel directly.

      The people from CRIU (save and restore running processes) want to combine their solution with kexec so you can do fast upgrades eventually:
      "When replacing a kernel on a box we can do it without stopping critical activity. Checkpoint it, then replace the kernel (e.g. using kexec) then restore services back. In a perfect world the applications memory shouldn't be put to disk image, but should rather be kept in RAM."
      https://criu.org/Usage_scenari...

      I don't think a patch for PRAM has been accepted yet: https://lwn.net/Articles/55704...

      The CRIU developers can save/restore a lot of things, but I don't think they can do it for everything yet.

      --
      New things are always on the horizon
    5. Re:The LTS release is a yawner by KGIII · · Score: 2

      Cool, thanks. I've never compiled and used my own kernel. I've bookmarked the Ubuntu documentation page and I might just have to give that a shot. I guess I could wait patiently for it to come down the pipe. Knowing it was coming was why I've not played with kexec yet - I figured that 4.4 was going to be here and an earlier announcement had said that it would have the ability to do security patches without the reboot. That's the feature that I'm most looking forward to - it's the feature that's most likely to actually impact me - a non-professional, largely, end-user.

      I don't, for example, consider myself an admin though I do sort of hold that role as I have a number of servers and desktops, even remote hardware in a couple locations, and do all that work myself by asking loads of questions when I need to. Being able to patch without rebooting is a step in the right direction for me - it takes away one more point of potential failure/mishap. (A box not coming back online, from remote, after applying an update is a potential for some frustration.) So, for me, that's the biggest thing I'm looking forward to. I don't need 3D in a VM or anything like that. I do make use of a lot of VMs but that's just to play with various operating systems and I use VMware and don't game.

      Hopefully it works well. I haven't really noticed a whole lot of people talking about it in the various groups. I'm actually kind of excited (as odd as it might sound) to have that feature. Maybe I'm expecting too much or it's not what I think it is? I dunno - it looks like, from my reading, you described it - patching to a new version while the system is live and the kernel is loaded in memory. Seems straight forward enough. Maybe I'm just excited about odd things... *shrugs* I'll make sure that I sit and watch it when it happens the first line it goes from 4.4 to 4.4.x. I'm also probably too easily amused.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    6. Re:The LTS release is a yawner by Lennie · · Score: 1

      live kernel patching is not kexec.

      kexec is an old feature, kexec is not new.

      You can do kexec with old kernels on Ubuntu right now. You can just try it on your desktop machine.

      install kexec-tools the setting to enable kexec are in /etc/default/kexec I assume on Ubuntu.

      Then do a reboot, if you've done everything right, you won't see a BIOS screen, just an Ubuntu shutdown and Ubuntu start up. And it will be faster because of it.

      Live kernel patching is only for security updates and you'll want to wait for your distribution to build them.

      It is not the normal process of building a kernel.

      How it is done: they build a special type of kernel-module.

      Then they load the kernel-module with a tool.

      The kernel-module is then used instead of the original running code of the kernel.

      It will probably end up being part of the normal process of installing security updates.

      I think they'll first target the LTS-releases (that is the kind of environment where you'd expect automatic install of security updates is more likely).

      --
      New things are always on the horizon
    7. Re:The LTS release is a yawner by Lennie · · Score: 1

      Also live kernel patching also don't really help you with remote hardware.

      Maybe the opposite.

      Because in case live kernel patching you don't reboot with the new kernel, just keep it running the old kernel with only the security patch applied.

      That could mean you did not test the normal way of booting with the new kernel.

      So when the machine does reboot unexpectedly (like power failure) it might not boot normally because you didn't test booting the new kernel after installing the security update.

      --
      New things are always on the horizon
    8. Re:The LTS release is a yawner by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Hmm... Valid point but probably not entirely too problematic. My whole house is a UPS of sorts. I have solar and wind and use the mains as a backup but I pull from the batteries in the basement and not from the sources directly. There are also two generators with one being a bit smaller and a fail-over. (I live way out in the middle of middle of nowhere NW Maine.) Only the server in the basement is an actual server with a redundant power supply so it could still suck. Methinks I've got some learning to do. :D Thanks. (I'm comfortable and happy to learn new stuff - there are loads of things I don't know.) The co-lo server is in a data center with actual power backups that are, they say, better than my own.

      I'm pretty remote - remote enough to where I had to pay for them to put in a CO and run new wires so that I can get DSL at home. (I'm not there now, I'm cheating and in Florida for the winter.) The using of mains as my backup isn't entirely abnormal up there. It's an unincorporated township with just six full-time residencies and we're just about the last place that gets power turned back on when storms take it out. We really can't rely on it - but I keep the mains connection just in case, plus I can push excess out into the grid and earn credits for it. I've been constantly generating over capacity since I had the second turbine put in, so I think I should be pretty good now.

      As a tangentially related aside; I sometimes here people suggesting that we do away with copper and run nothing but fiber everywhere. More than once have I seen the telephone line physically on the ground, with trees on it in various places, and still had connectivity. It wasn't full speed connectivity but the throughput was good enough to still stream documentaries from the 'net. I guess I'm hardly the paragon of rustic individual people might think when I tell them the first part. ;-) Worst case? I can usually still hit a couple of bars worth of connectivity from the cell tower. I would like to get a redundant DSL connection that comes in from the other end but I think it would be cost prohibitive. Just getting the lines and the CO was a bit pricey.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    9. Re:The LTS release is a yawner by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      It can be done with kexec right now (I think?) but having it native and automated

      What could possibly go wrong with allowing automated patching of the running kernel...

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    10. Re:The LTS release is a yawner by Lennie · · Score: 1

      People might talk about electric cars like it's something new... ;-)

      But your house already works more or less like a submarine.

      They however use diesel/gas to charge the batteries:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Anyway, if you have a couple of hundred servers, you'd still want to reboot them after live-patching occasionally even if you have your power sources are OK (I've seen datacenters going down because of airconditioning failing). Because if to many servers fail at the same time, you'd have a long downtime for at least part of the servers.

      Clearly not your situation.

      Judging by your comments on the other article, you might have more cars than servers. ;-)

      --
      New things are always on the horizon
    11. Re:The LTS release is a yawner by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I have, now, more cars than servers. I once had the opposite but I had, eventually, professionals to manage them. I only held the roles of IT and programmer because I needed to, not because I was particularly skilled. In fact, USENET saved my bacon more often than I can count. I don't even bother to lie and pretend I was good. :( No, I actually *hated* computers at first.

      Ah, one of my favorite quotes from a fairly new programmer that I'd hired. I was still "helping" then.
      "Code comments go in the code, not on coffee soaked index cards, asshole."

      That's pretty much verbatim. I hired smart people, learned to give them what they asked for, gave them clear directions, and got out of the way. I'm a maths geek. I was more interested in the algorithms than the code. I wrote code because I had to. I tried everything from BASIC, to QBASIC, to Perl, to C. I settled on C but they rewrote the whole thing in C++ in the late 1990s.

      The hardware was fun but, at times, I was over my head. Oh, things worked eventually. I learned a lot, I broke a lot. I worked a lot of hours - sometimes sleeping in the office and not seeing home for days, even if I was "home." I spent countless weeks, months, and years out of state and working in various field offices, cramped in a hotel room with a bunch of gear, or working in a spare office at some municipality's basement office while connected to the fragile system that was the main office.

      Without those guys, without you (I presume), I'd have not gotten very far. Well, not this far. Instead, with you, I got to ride the crest of the wave that was traffic modeling. I got to do new things in new and different ways. It was exciting, fun, and enjoyable. I feel fortunate, I am fortunate, and I no longer hate computers. We were clustering servers in the mid-1990s. We had drive arrays that allowed us to work with a data set that was nearly a full terabyte in size by the end of the 1990s. It was expensive but it was exciting. I learned a lot but not nearly enough, I've also not been gainfully employed (so to speak) since selling and retiring 8 years ago.

      So, yes, I have more cars than I have servers. I generally don't really fix those either. I can, I guess. But, like the servers of yore, I'd rather hire a competent professional because smacking your knuckles and splitting them open really kind of sucks. And, for the record, I've cut myself on way too many racks, workstations, and other assorted hardware bits with stupidly sharp edges. The old power cables on the IDE HDDs (pre-SSD days) were often good for a band-aid. Not the cable itself but when it finally pops loose. For some reason, I always forget/forgot to rock 'em side to side or that didn't always work so I'd have to tug on 'em.

      As an aside: I've always kept Linux installed on a partition - since the 90s, on my home computers. But, I'd really spent way too much time in Windows. I'd boot to Linux, maybe use it for recovery, keep it updated, or try something for a little while. I had a few servers with Linux on them but, even there, I used Windows more often than not. That was it. Sometimes I'd have a VM and play with that for a while. I realized my brain was turning to mush and that I wasn't learning anything. So, I slowly started using Linux more (probably for a couple of years) but still not much. Finally, I just said to hell with it and switched entirely and deleted my Windows partitions on everything. Other than my phone (oddly, I have a Windows phone - it's actually nice), I've got nothing but Linux now. There's lots of things for me to learn and all sorts of motivation for me to do so. Thus, I try to suck up all the information I can.

      Which leads me to this:

      Thanks! I seriously appreciate someone who takes a minute of their most precious asset (time) to help me understand something better.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    12. Re:The LTS release is a yawner by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Not a whole lot that's major - it's me, my home servers, and desktops. If I break something then I learn something new as I'm fixing it. I actually make it a point to try to break stuff in new and interesting ways - it's how I learn to fix it and, with fixing it, I learn new stuff. How to make this short?

      I'm retired. I used Unix for quite a while. I then used Windows. During that spell, I also used Unix (Solaris) on the workstations. I poked at Linux when it came out, or not long after. I kept using Windows. I mostly kept Linux installed on a partition but did little with it - some restoration, backup, or repair work - or just to update, play, poke, and maybe learn a little. I sometimes had Linux in a VM - maybe a server or two at home. Not much, really. I had dual boot configured but I never really bothered with it. A couple of years ago, I decided to use Linux more often and I sort of did but not really. I still just kept booting into Windows. I wasn't learning anything new, my brain was turning into a bowl of oatmeal, and I decided to change. So, I did something drastic. I let my MSDN subscription expire, deleted all my Windows partitions, reformatted everything, and installed pretty much every one of the major distros listed at DistroWatch (like all of 'em, at least in a VM). (Really, like all of 'em.)

      Since then (about a year now), I've continued to poke, to play, to learn, to grow, and to continue to use Linux exclusively as a desktop/server. I do have a recently purchased Windows phone as I was tired of Android.

      So, what can possibly go wrong? Nothing, really. It's not like these are production servers. It'd just be me breaking my own stuff and I've learned to not just keep good backups but to keep almost all data stored elsewhere, on a server, or at the least in a distinct /home directory. I wouldn't let me near a production server with a root password. Good heavens, no. I'd not pretend I was *capable* of that job. Not now, not yet, and probably not for a long time. In fact, I usually make a clear distinction that I am not, and should not be considered, a professional.

      Hmm... That was actually kind of concise for me. :D

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    13. Re:The LTS release is a yawner by Lennie · · Score: 1

      No problem.

      If you want I can send you my email address for more direct contact. Is that outlook address I see a real address ?

      --
      New things are always on the horizon
    14. Re:The LTS release is a yawner by KGIII · · Score: 1

      It is. I was really quite pleased to get that address. I jumped at the chance. I didn't really want a new email address but I just had to have the name - I caught the Outlook offering new email on the first day or close to it. I typed it in to see, my name was already taken, and there it was. So, I grabbed it.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  3. Is the systemd problem fixed yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    These new kernel features sound fantastic. I know the 3D hardware-accelerated graphics in virtualization guests is something I could definitely use on a daily basis. But unfortunately it sounds to me like the systemd problem hasn't been fixed? Any time I've tried using Linux lately on my computers I've experienced problems with systemd. Sometimes my Linux installations don't fully boot, and it isn't always clear why. Sometimes they'll boot, but if I do a typical update something will get broken and my system won't boot. It's hard to debug problems with systemd because the logs are in an unfriendly binary format. I'm just a casual Linux user so I don't have a lot of time to be fixing my system every week. I've had to move back to Windows because systemd causes me so much trouble. I want to use Linux but my only options are Slackware and Gentoo and they aren't very good! Slackware is no good because I don't want to spend a week configuring my system. I can't use Gentoo because I don't want to wait for days for basic software to compile. Linux is supposed to save me time, not waste my time! I'd love to use these new kernel features but until the systemd problem is fixed (read: systemd is completely removed) I can't use Linux.

    1. Re:Is the systemd problem fixed yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      Linux is not meant to save you time. It is meant to save you money. In fact, the target user for Linux OS is people who have time to fiddle-fuck around with their systems and can't afford a commercial (i.e. Windows) OS. In other words, people who have more time than money. If that is not you then you should be rocking Windows 7 and things will Just Work (tm). You can maximize your productive time and minimize the time you spend getting your machine to boot correctly.

    2. Re:Is the systemd problem fixed yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      As a person who just installed CentOS 7 for the first time the other day, I have to say that installation and configuration for my purposes takes much less time with CentOS 7 compared to Windows 7.

      Add in all the spying shit you have to turn off (or attempt to turn off) in Windows 10, and it's clear that Linux is the option that will cost you less time.

    3. Re:Is the systemd problem fixed yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      But here's the thing: Linux did save me a lot of time before this systemd thing was included. I used to use a distro called Debian. Maybe you've heard of it. It was sometimes kind of outdated but it was really stable. I never had any problems with it at all. I'd install it, and it would work. I would do updates once a week, and it would work. Then Debian's maintainers included systemd for some reason. After that I had nothing but problems with it. I know exactly what caused these problems: this systemd thing! I know what would fix these problems: getting rid of this systemd thing! Some people have said I should use something called FreeBSD instead and maybe I will try it sometime but Windows is working well for me. I never thought I'd say that but it's just the reality I live with now. Linux without systemd is great, but it's nearly impossible to find these days. Linux with systemd is full of problems, and it's worse than Windows. So now I have to use Windows, at least until this systemd thing is removed from Linux.

    4. Re:Is the systemd problem fixed yet? by armanox · · Score: 2

      Sadly, I don't think systemd is going away anytime soon. The biggest voice behind it (Red Hat) effectively controls the "GNU/Linux" world. The kernel is on a completely different level - it is the base that everything else (including systemd) builds around, and non-GNU Linux versions (like Android) will receive these features.

      --
      I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
    5. Re:Is the systemd problem fixed yet? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Yes the only way to escape the systemd Insert is to use an older but still supported long term distro or find some that have moved away from systemd.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    6. Re: Is the systemd problem fixed yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Like doing the work of actually supporting the alternatives yourself. I have a regular day job. I spend nights and weekends packaging software for a popular GNU/Linux distribution. I'm not alone. I have better things to do than to make sure that everything works with every possible combination of systemd or non-systemd just because a few people have something against it. If you think it's so important to not use systemd then you better step up and do the work yourself.

    7. Re: Is the systemd problem fixed yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Or I could just do what a ton of former linux users have already done - switch to FreeBSD or OpenBSD.

      I can't do anything to shut off the flow of shit raining down on linux users from poettering, but I can damn sure ditch linux and run away from the splash zone.

    8. Re: Is the systemd problem fixed yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just about 1000 people, at least if we're taking about a metric ton. That's not a lot.

    9. Re: Is the systemd problem fixed yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Assuming the average nerd weighs 100 kg a metric ton is just 10 people.

      Which effectively doubles the *BSD user base, of course. :-)

    10. Re:Is the systemd problem fixed yet? by martin-boundary · · Score: 1
      Just for completeness, another option is a BSD. I'm a longtime (15 years, literally) Debian user. It's been an amazing high quality ride until the last year became unbearable with systemd fuckups. I've reluctantly switched to FreeBSD and I'm rather impressed. Packages work easily, documentation is better than Debian, and the quality of networking is better.

      It used to be that Linux was dependable for cool stuff, but the BSDs are just dependable, that's my first impression.

    11. Re:Is the systemd problem fixed yet? by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      You could consider debian KFreeBSD instead, it's debian with the FreeBSD kernel - and it's not got systemd and probably never will.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    12. Re:Is the systemd problem fixed yet? by present_arms · · Score: 1

      Then don't use a linux that has systemd :) simple :D seriously there are a few out there from PCLinuxOS to Slackware to Duvian (sp) etc no reason to use what you don't want :) Alie

      --
      http://chimpbox.us
    13. Re:Is the systemd problem fixed yet? by ssam · · Score: 1

      systemd works great for millions of people. I am sure most of them did not even notice the change (unless their distro was previously using sysvinit and their boot got much faster). So either you only tried systemd on a really buggy distro, maybe a development release, or you did had some complicated set of custom boot scripts that broke, or you have a really odd hardware setup. Most distros still write the old ascii log files, so i don't see how debugging could be harder.

    14. Re:Is the systemd problem fixed yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Devuan.

    15. Re:Is the systemd problem fixed yet? by armanox · · Score: 1

      To be honest, and Unix implement is an alternative. I have systems at home running Solaris (8-10), IRIX (6.5.29), and OS X (10.4 and 10.5 on PPC, 10.6 and 10.7 on Intel); I used to use HP-UX and AIX, and I've got a bit of FreeBSD experience at this point too. It's the Linux crowd that really likes to piss off its users.

      --
      I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
    16. Re: Is the systemd problem fixed yet? by armanox · · Score: 1

      Systemd is a pain in my side as an admin, and when I do help with open source software systemd isn't a concern of mine - Linux isn't my only target when it comes to software, it's Unix compatibility in general (actually, Linux compatibility isn't my main concern anymore either).

      --
      I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
    17. Re:Is the systemd problem fixed yet? by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Non-systemd linux distributions, 67 of them: http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  4. Kernel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    Isn't the kernel obsolete now that we have systemd?

    1. Re:Kernel? by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      I know you're joking, but if I ever have plenty of free time, I'll go here and spend some time figuring out how to boot systemd on the raw metal, making a true systemdOS. And I never joke. j/k. not.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    2. Re:Kernel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > systemd on the raw metal

      That should be very fast since it doesn't support reliable logging.

    3. Re: Kernel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And stderr!

    4. Re: Kernel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No one uses stderr any longer. It's good to get rid of useless cruft.

    5. Re: Kernel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dropping a lot of syslog messages isn't a huge problem since important things are usually logged more than once so you might not miss it.

    6. Re: Kernel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But seriously when was the last time you looked at a log? I'm glad they're being de emphasized by design.

    7. Re: Kernel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dropping a lot of syslog messages isn't a huge problem since important things are usually logged more than once so you might not miss it.

      With that attitude, you sound like a Windows user.

    8. Re: Kernel? by armanox · · Score: 1

      I look at log files almost daily, especially when something goes wrong.

      --
      I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
    9. Re: Kernel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's why systemd starts logging much earlier than syslog, so that you can even get logs from the boot process.

    10. Re: Kernel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice troll.

      But seriously, dropping a lot of syslog messages and stderr makes troubleshooting very difficult.

    11. Re: Kernel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      De stop users don't need logs. That is why tossing them is a good idea.

    12. Re: Kernel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't drop anything. You tell it where you want stdout and stderr to go and it will go there.

    13. Re:Kernel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kernel is still required to print the systemd's output. No other piece of software in the system is allowed to use the output, as the systemd owns it.

    14. Re: Kernel? by ArchieBunker · · Score: 0

      So it comes broken by default then?

      --
      Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    15. Re: Kernel? by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      Logs are for the rare occasions when something *does* go wrong. Saying "when was the last time you needed a log" is a vacuous statement unless the product is 100.00% reliable.

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    16. Re: Kernel? by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      I use stderr frequently in development. It's convenient.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  5. For a more complete changelog: by diegocg · · Score: 5, Informative

    For a more complete changelog:

    http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux...

    1. Re:For a more complete changelog: by KiloByte · · Score: 2

      The KernelNewbies website alive? With a changelog the day of the release rather than half a year later? Must be fake.

      --
      The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
  6. Where do these impressive features matter? by bogaboga · · Score: 0, Troll

    Folks, it bothers me that even with all these features, Linux [still] doesn't matter on the desktop. Where are these features really having impact?

    1. Re:Where do these impressive features matter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Do you have a specific issue, or are you just worried about a popularity contest?

      I've been using it as my primary desktop OS for nearly 18 years now.

    2. Re:Where do these impressive features matter? by godrik · · Score: 4, Informative

      They matter on my desktop.
      They matter on the desktops of all these administrations over the world that deploy linux operating system.
      They matter in all the cloud infrastructure that rely on virtualization for load balancing.
      They matter in the data center that are moving toward SSD for I/O.
      They matter in 80% of the cell phones in the world that deploy the linux kernel.

    3. Re:Where do these impressive features matter? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      Folks, it bothers me that even with all these features, Linux [still] doesn't matter on the desktop. Where are these features really having impact?

      Do you feel inadequate if you aren't using the most popular computer OS or something? I never ascribed to the idea thatm one should use Windows because it is the most "popular". I use linux on the desktop because I like it. That's all I need.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    4. Re:Where do these impressive features matter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      in my butt

    5. Re:Where do these impressive features matter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you have to ask why these changes are being added into the kernel, you don't need to know why. Linux is mostly contributed to by corporate entities, so solutions to their problems tend to get fixed first.

    6. Re:Where do these impressive features matter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, two of the fixes are for .Net, so it matters for millions of Windows users too.

    7. Re:Where do these impressive features matter? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Folks, it bothers me that even with all these features, Linux [still] doesn't matter on the desktop.

      Well, the thing is - "the desktop" matters less now than it ever has before.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    8. Re:Where do these impressive features matter? by lucm · · Score: 0

      Linux is mostly contributed to by corporate entities, so solutions to their problems tend to get fixed first.

      Of course. Each of the thousands of developers who contributed code first made sure to obtain the latest copy of those corporate entities secret agendas. There's a parameter for that when you run "git clone".

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    9. Re:Where do these impressive features matter? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      If you have problems with the prevalence of Linux on the desktop the kernel is likely the least of your concern.

    10. Re:Where do these impressive features matter? by petes_PoV · · Score: 1

      Yes. After years of "releases" that were mainly just support for obscure hardware and bug/security fixes, this offering might actually be worth the effort of upgrading my existing systems to.

      --
      politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
    11. Re:Where do these impressive features matter? by BESTouff · · Score: 1

      They matter in 80% of the cell phones in the world that deploy the linux kernel.

      Not really, all those phones are stuck at 3.xx. You'll have to wait for quite a long time to have 80% of all phones (or even Android phones) to reach 4.4.

    12. Re:Where do these impressive features matter? by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      "If you have to ask why these changes are being added into the kernel, you don't need to know why. Linux is mostly contributed to by corporate entities, so solutions to their problems tend to get fixed first."

      When you understand how Linux development works get back to us. I can assure you that every change is made based on technical merits. You can get your favourite feature added. You just need to submit extremely solid code that will withstand peer review by many of the most competent OS Engineers on the planet. (I admit, that really means you can't get your changes included, but that is because you are not highly competentb, not because you don't work for Red Hat.)

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    13. Re:Where do these impressive features matter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heh. You must have never read a kernel changelog in your life.

      Hint, the parent is outright lying or talking out of his ass. If you're going to +1 someone, you should at least check it for blatant crap, first.

    14. Re:Where do these impressive features matter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this is blatantly untrue, prior to the late 70's it mattered much much less than it ever will again

    15. Re:Where do these impressive features matter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Where are these features really having impact?

      In the kernel, where it counts.

      Desktop support is really not the kernel's problem, but the drivers and lack thereof may have a lot to do with it.

      Whenever you say "someone" should fix xyz, look in the mirror to find that "someone."

  7. Already broken! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    Press 28 times on the backspace to get immediate root access. Even a cat can root Linux!

    1. Re:Already broken! by armanox · · Score: 1

      Only if you are using certain versions of one particular boot loader - which many of us never were using.

      --
      I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
    2. Re:Already broken! by KGIII · · Score: 1

      That and it's not root access. It's just the bootloader. It's not even a very valuable security tool to use. There are few reasons to even have used that feature and to rely on it solely seems foolhardy. I could see it in use at a kiosk but one shouldn't be allowing physical access to the computers there nor allow users to issue reboot commands from there. All-in-all, a bug but not a very important bug and overblown by people who seem to think it gave potential "root" access by itself. It's not their fault that they were misled, it's their fault that they didn't actually take the time to learn better.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    3. Re:Already broken! by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Once again, somne douchebag with no clue what he is talking about posts as an AC on Slashdot. There was a time when a moron who didn't know the difference between a bootloader and a kernel would be modded to oblivion and flamed ad infinitum, but alas Slashdot is no longer frequented mostly by competent people.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  8. Mod parent UP! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    I'm shocked that the parent comment was modded down. Who did that? Microsoft employees?

    1. Re:Mod parent UP! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      My suspicion is that it's the Slashdot editors, or somebody else affiliated with Slashdot who is responsible. It's quite common to see early comments modded down to -1, without any reason (Flamebait, Troll, Offtopic, etc.) listed. The comments are downmodded almost immediately after they're posted in some cases, too.

      This is just speculation, but maybe the Slashdot editors are trying to steer the conversation in certain ways, and they are attempting to do this by downmodding perfectly good comments right away, instead of letting community members judge the comments?

      Comments pointing out problems with systemd often get this treatment, especially when they're perfectly relevant comments, like the GP's comment is.

      I really hope that it isn't anyone affiliated with Slashdot who is responsible for the abusive and incorrect -1 moderations. If it is, that would be a really despicable thing for them to be doing. It would be far worse than the overt censorship at Hacker News, or the modding-to-make-up-for-having-a-micropenis that we see at Reddit, or the smartass holier-than-thou censorship at Stack Overflow.

      What Slashdot should do is list who moderated each comment, and how they moderated it. I'd like to think they'd be honest, so that if it's somebody affiliated with Slashdot doing the downmodding that this is made clear. If somebody is deemed responsible enough to moderate comments, then they should be willing to have their username publicly associated with whatever moderation they give.

    2. Re:Mod parent UP! by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      from reading it, anyone can see it was the most lame-assed troll so it deserved its mod value.

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    3. Re:Mod parent UP! by requerdanos · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Comments pointing out problems with systemd often get this treatment, especially when they're perfectly relevant comments, like the GP's comment is.

      This is an article about the linux kernel. Random systemd complaints like the one you champion so are offtopic and very annoying. While systemd affects the greater GNU/Linux ecosystem, it has squat-all to do with the kernel.

      I don't have mod points right now, and so didn't have to spend my mod points on -1-offtopic'ing the shrill anti-systemd crowd that try to hijack any vaguely linux-related thread. I was glad to see that someone else did most of the work already; but lots of this offtopic thread still needs to be modded down, present comment included.

      And seriously, about 90% of the systemd rants, whines, complaints are completely offtopic--it's an annoying monomania, like watching a certain other monomaniac who seems to believe that the windows hosts file is relevant to any discussion. Seems like only about 1 in 10 of you people knows how to actually bend your agenda into an actual on-topic post. "When will the systemd problem be fixed" is not in any way on-topic in a discussion of a new kernel release and its support term, because--warning, technical information ahead--systemd isn't part of the kernel, doesn't come from the kernel team. The kernel is completely init-agnostic.

      I know I won't convince you people with logic and perspective, but I hope that this information helps you to understand that it's not a grand shashdot conspiracy against you--you're just annoying and offtopic, and people like me are modding you appropriately.

    4. Re:Mod parent UP! by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2

      You can't expect the anti-systemd crowd to know that systemd is not a relevant topic in the discussion of the kernel. They literally have no idea how Linux works. They constantly make absurd and baseless claims like " Any time I've tried using Linux lately on my computers I've experienced problems with systemd.". In order to believe that you would have to believe that the majority of users experience problems with systemd. It's like the "Don't trust SSDs!" crowd. They latch on to a technology that had a rough start and then try to claim that it is just as rough today as it was three years ago. The goal isn't to change the minds of Linux users, who would readily know that their claims are bullshit. The goal is to keep people away from Linux who might otherwise switch. I mean, I can't imagine who might have that goal of course, but clearly someone does. (To be fair it is likely a combo of M$ shills and other nayer-say-wells, like the guy who constantly gets bit by his own incompetence and blames the tool for his aborted creation.)

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    5. Re:Mod parent UP! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is an article about the linux kernel.

      Alas, systemd does have its eyes on the very kernel. Rembember that the systemd crowd is super-insistent in its push to implement D-Bus in the kernel. Consider also that the maintainer of the LTS kernels is really into the systemd craptasm. He's one of the cheerleaders of kdbus.

      To demonstrate that systemd's push for the kernel has indeed been a concern for kernel developers, consider this from Ted Ts'o in the LKML from a year ago.

    6. Re:Mod parent UP! by gweihir · · Score: 0

      Baseless insults that ignore reality will not make you systemd-fanatics any friends. Even though ignoring reality is how you have operated the whole time, others may actually have some real understanding of what is going on.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    7. Re:Mod parent UP! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's common. I often I see comments disappearing and this should be impossible, only the editors could do this or users with access to "admin". And usually this happens when they have many diehard supporters of Linux involved in the topic.

    8. Re:Mod parent UP! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Zero__Kelvin is a well known dickhead, ignore him.

    9. Re:Mod parent UP! by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      What the hell are you talking about? Do you even know? I certainly didn't make any "baseless insults". Indeed there wasn't a single insult in the post, let alone a baseless one. You seem to think that calling an incompetent moron like yourself an incompetent moron is baseless. On the contrary, while it is an insult, it certainly isn't baseless.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  9. time *IS* money by mschaffer · · Score: 1

    Time is money. So, if it doesn't save time, it isn't saving money.
    Besides, Linux is meant to boot your machine and provide basic OS service---not save you time or money.

    1. Re:time *IS* money by invictusvoyd · · Score: 1

      Linux was never meant to save time or money . It just accidentally did so for many people.

  10. Lolinux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    So... It does some shit Windows has done for over 5 years? Awesome!! So fucking innovative!

    1. Re:Lolinux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, and it is still missing the tracking and spying features of the Windows 10, which are so important for "improving the experience".

  11. So at the risk of being called a dumbass ... by ChesterRafoon · · Score: 2

    ... how exactly does someone run the latest and greated Linux kernel? My trusty Ubuntu 14.04 shows kernel 3.16. Some work I'm doing in Yocto on a Freescale ARM board shows something like 3.19 for the kernel version. Is there some mysterious bleeding edge distro to be had somewhere that is always up to date on everything, or at least the kernel? Or do I roll my own, install on Ubuntu 14.04 (for example) and hope it all works? Enquiring minds want to know!

    1. Re:So at the risk of being called a dumbass ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes, compiling and installing your own kernel is very normal on a linux box. You configure all the modules you want compiled in/compiled for side loading, install it somewhere your bootloader can load it, and reboot.

    2. Re:So at the risk of being called a dumbass ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sid?

    3. Re: So at the risk of being called a dumbass ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some distros (not Ubuntu) actually updates the kernel. Fedora will most likely switch to this eventually. There is always some delay for testing.

    4. Re:So at the risk of being called a dumbass ... by khasim · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not a dumbass. Everyone had to learn everything they know at some point in their life.

      Today is your day for kernel compilation! Yay!
      https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/BuildYourOwnKernel

    5. Re: So at the risk of being called a dumbass ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v4.4-wily/

      Umm yes they do. Works fine on 14.04. YMMV.

    6. Re:So at the risk of being called a dumbass ... by ChesterRafoon · · Score: 1

      Perfect kind person - thank you. This is exactly what I was looking for - off I go.

    7. Re:So at the risk of being called a dumbass ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can try Oracle Linux. It's the same thing as the latest RHEL distribution except it's free and it comes with 2 kernels: Oracle's "unbreakable" (i.e. almost the latest kernel + some patches) and RHEL's kernel (i.e. an old kernel + tons of patches)

    8. Re:So at the risk of being called a dumbass ... by corychristison · · Score: 2

      Search for "rolling release linux distro" on your favourite search engine.

      Some popular distro's:
      - Gentoo: www.gentoo.org (or Funtoo www.funtoo.org - created by the original founder of Gentoo)
      - ArchLinux: www.archlinux.org
      - Sabayon Linux: www.sabayon.org
      - Lunar Linux: www.lunar-linux.org

    9. Re:So at the risk of being called a dumbass ... by antdude · · Score: 1

      Debian has v4.2, but its closed binary NVIDIA driver doesn't work with it due to compilation issues. :(

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    10. Re:So at the risk of being called a dumbass ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or the guide I wrote some time ago.

      http://goo.gl/2ez8Ny

      It includes how to optimize for your CPU.

    11. Re:So at the risk of being called a dumbass ... by Gryle · · Score: 2

      Whoa guy, what are you doing? You're supposed to berate the GP for his lack of knowledge and inability to coalesce knowledge from the ether by will alone. Are you trying to destroy the quality of Slashdot? :)

      --
      Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not entirely sure about the universe - Einstein
    12. Re:So at the risk of being called a dumbass ... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Yes. I want to say that I apologize on behalf of any Linux advocate that turns his nose up at a sincere question like yours. To be fair, there are so many anti-Linux trolls here these days it is easy to get confused who is legitimately asking a question and who is doing so subversively. That being said, it is very unfortunate that Linux and FOSS in general have such a bad reputation for user support of newbies. It is somewhat deserved to be sure, but again, you have to look at the big picture and see the collateral damage from M$ shills, etc. before you can really understand it.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    13. Re:So at the risk of being called a dumbass ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oblig xkcd: https://xkcd.com/1053/

    14. Re:So at the risk of being called a dumbass ... by present_arms · · Score: 1

      and PCLinuxOS :P seriously I'm expecting for the new kernel to be in testing really soon, and I'll test it on my machines (17 of em) and do my remaster if it doesn't throw up any show stoppers, I do expect Nvidia and Ati closed source drivers to bork until patches are available and I am looking forward to the new features such as 3D in VMs. No need to compile if your old kernel is working well, just wait until it hits the repository of your favourite distribution and simply apt -get, whatever package manager it in :) keeping the old one installed until you have tested the new one thoroughly then remove the old. Alie

      --
      http://chimpbox.us
    15. Re:So at the risk of being called a dumbass ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure about Stable and Testing but I'm currently on sid with 4.3 and Nvidia binaries. DKMS worked just fine.

  12. Mod GP fucking retarded! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Look at the subject for fuck sake, anybody with any clue about this knows that this has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with systemd. What do you expect the kernel developers are supposed to do about systemd? Do you understand what systemd is? Obviously not. Do you understand what Linux is? Again obviously not. Part of the reason the genuine criticism of systemd was ignored is because it was drowned out by nitwits like you who don't have a clue what you're talking about and just want so desperately to feel important that you just inject yourself into a chinese-whispers echo chamber. Asking the kernel developers if they have done "fixed the systemd problem" is completely nonsensical.

    Additionally Microsoft releases fucked versions of Windows every 5 minutes and despite that and the ease of which it is to install desktop Linux distros (both long before and after systemd) the vast majority of people still rather use Windows than dektop Linux distros. Microsoft doesnt have anything to fear from desktop Linux, the next Windows version could require the user to communicate in binary by banging 2 rocks together while Nadella climbs in your ass with a camera to make sure your TPM chip is working correctly and people would *still* rather use that than desktop Linux.

    1. Re:Mod GP fucking retarded! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, Windows works. Windows have a long history of crucial backwards compatibility that the Linux people simply don't care about but in the real business world you NEED backwards compatibility. You simply do not use Linux for your mission-critical work when this work depends on libs that keep changing (and breaking) because some fucktard thinks that retrocompatibility is boring.

  13. Things not fixed: by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

    you can't fix everything: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  14. We'll explain it to you step-by-step. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    Let's spell it out for you:

    1. The Linux kernel is useless by itself.
    2. The Linux kernel becomes useful when used with a Linux distribution that includes other software.
    3. All of the major Linux distributions include systemd.
    4. Systemd causes many problems for many users, including Linux distribution installations that do not boot properly.
    5. A Linux distribution that does not boot properly thanks to systemd renders the Linux kernel completely useless.
    6. The Linux kernel being rendered useless thanks to systemd means that these new features can't be used.

    So systemd is actually very relevant to these new kernel features.

    In short: for many users, systemd is effectively a bug that prevents the Linux kernel's functionality from being used.

    1. Re:We'll explain it to you step-by-step. by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      yawn..... trolling of a desperate nature detacted

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    2. Re:We'll explain it to you step-by-step. by KGIII · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Let me preface this by saying that I am not, by any means, a professional Linux administrator. I did, on the other hand, admin a bunch of servers as a part of my profession but those were mostly Unix and then Windows and then I hired competent professionals.

      That said, I'd love to hate SystemD. I love me a good hate-fest. I keep pre-pitched torches at the ready and carry a fold-away assault pitchfork. I have various servers at home, some running on real server hardware, and a whole network of computers. (What self-respecting geek doesn't?) I have more VMs than I possibly need, doing things that I have no idea what I was thinking at the time, and am connected to my system in Maine via the most convoluted route possible. I have co-lo equipment that sits mostly idle and houses a few friend's sites and that's about it... It doesn't really do much of anything but, damn it, I have it!

      You know what almost all these various computers have in common? Oh, they've got a whole host of distros on them - I'm not even sure I can quickly figure out which one is which any more. My topography looks like it was designed by a crack-addled five year old with admin privileges. I'm currently using a Live USB (Lubuntu), through a VPN, to my house, in a VM, to the 'net, through a VPN - and I'm skipping a few steps to keep it simple for you. This thing, for lack of a better word, shouldn't even run - never mind be stable. But this thing, with all these distros, has that one thing in common that I asked about. It's SystemD.

      Yup. I guess they all have Linux in common but they sure as hell don't all have the same version of the kernel. So, there's that. But, they do all have SystemD (except for a few VMs - those are BSD, Minix, Indiana, and a few others but those don't actually get booted very often) for the most part. The all seem to work. Oh, I tried to hate SystemD. Yet, it's not caused me a single problem yet. I learned a few new comments, I've surely done something that should have broken it by now, and I've even read parts of the man pages.

      Oh, I know it's not the Unix Way. Well, except it could be 'cause the Unix Way has exceptions. I know, it's got binary logging but - you can actually read those logs with a few different tools if you need to. I haven't needed to so I won't say that they work well but I'm told they work well enough. Yes, it does more than it needs to and it's not what we're used to. Meh, I'm okay with that - staying static is nice for some things and avoiding monolithic things is a good idea. Yet, it works. It works fine for me. I know, I am not everyone but I suspect the vast majority of the people complaining haven't actually used it. Even Hairyfeet complains and he's a Windows user - he's an ardent opponent of SystemD but he's probably never even tried a distro with it.

      So, yeah, my pitchfork is starting to get rusty and needs to be sharpened again. My torches were lit but I just dunked 'em in water 'cause there didn't appear to be any monster that needed slaying. It's too bad, I had enough torches to go around. I want to hate it - I really do. It's not that I have some great skill that keeps it working - it works DESPITE my best efforts to screw things up. Oh, I screw up lots of things but it's not yet been the fault of SystemD nor has it prevented me from repairing my mistakes.

      I dunno... I notice lots of lists of things people hate. I notice very few anecdotes of how it has harmed them. I've noticed even less actual compilations of data concerning it. If it's that bad then, well, we should have some data and someone would have compiled it. (The data, not systemd.) If a bumbling idiot, such as myself, can manage it - and not have a problem, then it seems only logical that smarter folks can figure it out, no? I mean, hell, I'm in a Live USB environment because I hosed GRUB again and I've not yet rebooted after fixing it. You'd think that, by now, SystemD would have been a problem for me. I kind of wish it had, then I could blame my mistakes on it.

      What? I made a typo?!? It's

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    3. Re: We'll explain it to you step-by-step. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Systemd causes many problems for many users, including Linux distribution installations that do not boot properly.

      What? Of all the things to complain about systemd you go with this nonsense?

    4. Re:We'll explain it to you step-by-step. by DrXym · · Score: 1

      The only problem systemd causes is it gives voice to people whining about systemd. In other respects it works as intended and completely satisfactorily.

    5. Re:We'll explain it to you step-by-step. by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      If you are going to spell something out, you should have a clue how to spell it. You don't. Now off you go little fucktard ...

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    6. Re:We'll explain it to you step-by-step. by Xtifr · · Score: 1

      I know, it's got binary logging [...]

      That's what they tell me, but of course, my Debian systems using systemd actually still seem to log the same old stuff to the same old files. :)

    7. Re:We'll explain it to you step-by-step. by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I have not yet not found a log that I was unable to read. (That's English, right?) I am downstream from you - I'm in the Ubuntu family (more often than not) but I prefer Lubuntu. At this point, and I'm a silent subscriber to all sorts of mailing lists, I have to wonder how many of those people who register their complaints here (and at a few other sites) are actually Linux users or have problems?

      Now, as I said, I'm not a professional admin and I'll be the first one to mention that. That means, feel free to discard anything I say or take it with a grain of salt. I'm okay with either, my ego is not that frail. I make more mistakes in a day than some folks make in a month. I'm okay with that - that's how I learn. If I'm not breaking something then I'm not learning. I'm old, I don't want to stagnate. Err... 58 is old. Trust me on this one. I've had a rather eventful and active life. Bits of me ache in the morning - bits that I didn't even know I had and I swear, I feel my brain plasticizing. It really gets more difficult to grasp stuff - that's why I switched to using Linux exclusively.

      That said, I don't really feel comfortable saying this next part because it sounds like an accusation and I'm not in a position to judge. But... I think it needs to be asked. How many people are having issues, perhaps of their own making, and laying the blame on SystemD because they are unable to properly place the blame, made a mistake they don't want to own up to, or are otherwise inept? Remember, some percentage of people are the least competent systems administrators in the field.

      That should not be seen as a specific accusation directed any particular person, of course. But, how many of the complaints are of that type? Another thing is that happy people don't tend to speak up. I'm kind of in an odd position - I restarted my Linux use and then went through the SystemD change (in various distros) not long after. I'm inept with both init systems! Oh, I'm not kidding... You saw how I gave a description of my connection to this very page? Yeah... I did that *on purpose.* I wouldn't let me near a production server and I sure as hell wouldn't place any more stock in my views other than that as someone who's actually trying to be objective and is able to break most anything. I'm still booted to that same Live USB, by the way.

      So, I haven't had a problem. It has even been helpful. I wrote "comments" earlier but I meant to say that I'd learned a few new commands. I've actually made good use of some of them. If something's flaked out then I know to check journalctl and whatnot. I can grep (sort of) and maybe find stuff - with some help from Google and some notes that I've kept. If it doesn't start then I can chroot into it and have a look around and see what's wrong. I keep good backups but don't actually rely on them much - I'd rather fix stuff than repair stuff now. I'm getting more comfortable, I kind of understand the actual processes and what is happening and why - like I was much more adept at with a Windows system. Hell, I was awarded a Microsoft MVP for quite a few years before I gave up participating and just paid for my own damned MSDN subscription. (Shell, IE/OE, and Security awards. Meh, something like six years.)

      I really do have a knack for breaking stuff - and I try. That's how I learn. I break it, I fix it, and in the process I learn why I broke it, why what I did fixed it, and how to not break it again in the future. (Sometimes that last one takes a few lessons.) If there's a button - I'll poke it. If there's a bash command, I'll run it. (Well, within reason. I do keep good backups for a reason.)

      Yet, everything else has been broken by now - I've been doing this for a couple of years and a year in earnest, SystemD has not caused me one issue. I can even add services to the startup, programs to the startup, disable 'em, change 'em delay 'em, and (I think) make 'em check for failure and restart. Yet, strangely enough, it hasn't broken and I've not yet found a log I couldn't read.

      Ah well.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    8. Re:We'll explain it to you step-by-step. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. The Linux kernel is useless by itself.
      2. The Linux kernel becomes useful when used with a Linux distribution that includes other software.
      3. All of the major Linux distributions include systemd.

      The most popular Linux-based operating system by far is Android, which does not include systemd. You also do not have to use it in major distributions like Slackware and Gentoo.

      In short: for many users, systemd is effectively a bug that prevents the Linux kernel's functionality from being used.

      A bug in distributions that include it maybe, but certainly not in the Linux kernel. More to the point desktop Linux distributions that require systemd are only a *very small* part of Linux kernel usage and in turn they are only a *very small* part of desktop computer usage.

  15. openSUSE Tumbleweed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Get Tumbleweed. It's a rolling release -- it stays up to date with a reasonable week or two lag (to allow for stability testing). Currently runs kernel 4.3.3, suspect it will go to 4.4 in a few weeks. Been using it a while now and really enjoy it.

  16. Been running 4.4rcN on ARM64 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    4.4 is the first release of the Linux kernel which supports enough to run it without any changes on Cavium's ThunderX. I have been running it since rc4 came out and even helped fix a bug in the locks.

  17. not Windows. Start with existing config, keep old by raymorris · · Score: 1

    You CAN use a bleeding-edge distro but you don't need to if you just want a new kernel. Unlike Windows, you can use a new kernel with an older userland or vice-versa. You can update the kernel without updating the "operating system". (Modulo fucking systemd.)

    Your bootloader will let you choose the kernel when you boot, and you can set it to fallback to a known-good kernel, so there is little to no risk in trying different ones. I tend to keep the last three kernels I used, just because there is no reason not to. /boot should be 200MB+ these days anyway.

    There are a lot of tutorials about compiling kernels, but one point you'll want to know is that you can (and should) start with your old kernel config as a base. (There are many options you can configure in the kernel). The new kernel will probably work fine with the old config. Once you're happy that your new kernel is working fine, you can start changing some config and compiling another copy if you want to. There are many things you can choose to include in your kernel, exclude, or compile as a module. Compiling it as a module is best for most things on a desktop or laptop. The system will only load the hardware modules it needs, and any other modules can be loaded and unloaded as desired while the system is running. Compiling a module just gives you the OPTION to use it or not.

    Items you need in order to access the disk should be compiled into the kernel. You can't load a module from disk if you can't yet access the disk. :)

  18. matters on my desktop. Linux outsells Windows by raymorris · · Score: 4, Interesting

    80% of computers sold last year were SOCs (mobiles). Another x% were servers. So the desktop market is maybe 15% of the market. More Linux systems were sold last year than Windows systems and the trend is increasing each year.

    With that said, who said Linux doesn't matter on the desktop? It matters on MY desktop, and has for 15 years. For most of the last 15 years, I worked for an information security company, so Microsoft software was not allowed on the company network. All desktops and laptops were Linux, no as were some firewalls, load balancers, most servers, etc.

    1. Re:matters on my desktop. Linux outsells Windows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Embedded devices, like cell phones, don't count as Linux being sold. People buy cell phones to be an appliance. People buy a desktop for an environment. The OS only matter when people make a conscience decision to specifically get that OS. Few people buy for Linux, most buy for Android, which could have easily been BSD based.

    2. Re:matters on my desktop. Linux outsells Windows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you exclude everything that Windows isn't used for, then Windows has a market majority in its niche - duh. Linux however serves everything else, which is a much bigger and more lucrative market.

  19. Long Term Support? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What makes this Kernel LTS? As far as I'm aware LTS is a term Ubuntu uses for their releases which they support for two years, indepedent of their "normal" releases -- I've never heard of an LTS kernel branch. Will there be kernel 4.4 update releases after the mainline kernel has gone on to 4.5?

    1. Re:Long Term Support? by petes_PoV · · Score: 1

      Yes, the term is largely meaningless. It seems to me that LTS actually means that so long as you don't need to upgrade any third-party applications (that inevitably have dependencies on newer, non-LTS, libraries), then any bugs you report might get fixed - provided you're a MAJOR PLAYER in the Linux arena with clout and someone in the support team is bored enough to choose to fix bugs ... and picks on yours as being easy enough to tackle.

      So it's long-term support, all right. Just so long as you don't change anything that hasn't been "blessed" by whoever is providing that support. Of course, by the end of the LTS period, your system will be so out of date, that the only way to upgrade it will be to wipe it and start over. Ho, hum.

      --
      politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
    2. Re:Long Term Support? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are loads of LTS Kernels: https://www.kernel.org/

  20. I like systemd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I guess I'm just an old fart that happened to adapt to SMF early on. All the complaints were the same, now every last Solaris holdout will shove SMF in your face if you try to do a comparison to Linux.

    Honestly, the SMF manifests are somewhat easier to understand, but systemd is more powerful. And systemd is only going to get better, as they have motivated ppl. behind the project, unlike Mr. Ellision that can't wait until Solaris meets the deuce.

  21. Insert first systemd FUD of the day .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anonymous Coward: Re: Is the systemd problem fixed yet? (Score:2, Informative):

    "Like doing the work of actually supporting the alternatives yourself. I have a regular day job. I spend nights and weekends packaging software for a popular GNU/Linux distribution. I'm not alone. I have better things to do than to make sure that everything works with every possible combination of systemd or non-systemd just because a few people have something against it. If you think it's so important to not use systemd then you better step up and do the work yourself. link"

    I totally believe you, that you package software for a popular GNU/Linux distribution, I really do, really :)

  22. Not fixed: i915 suspend issues. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92414
    https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1504584

    Started with between 4.2.* and the 4.3 release candidate. If you've got an intel iGPU on your CPU, you might get suspend issues. First suspend will work, second will fail but the system still responds, after that you've basically got a hard crash and needs to reset. Was still present in 4.4RC8 and I saw no i915 fixes related to this.

    Hoping for a fix.

  23. They don't buy Windows phones! MS spent billions by raymorris · · Score: 1

    You may be of the opinion that the OS doesn't matter but after billions and billions of dollars MS spent on development and marketing, they don't buy phones with Windows on them.

    > or Android could have easily been BSD based.

    And every Dell, HP, and Compaq desktop could have easily be running Mac, had Apple chosen to allow that. Mitt Romney could have president. That's not what happened.

  24. Re: Story time! by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

    Yeah, I didn't mean you specifically; rather the idea of this being a feature added to the mainline kernel for everybody, which sounds like a potential attack vector not unlike the ability to reflash your BIOS from software to me.

    I was kind of casually messing around with Linux (LiveCDs, then within a year or two a dual-boot) since not too long after I started college (headed towards 10 years ago now? damn.), but the limit of my expertise on that front was basically googling enough to get some desktop stuff configured.

    Then my first job out of college had us on Fedora workstations so I picked up some bash and command line stuff and emacs. Since I gradually got more used to being on the command line than using Windows Explorer* I ended up booting Mint most of the time. Then when my old tower gave out this last summer, I got a x64 Windows 8.1 machine that doesn't let me run the several 1995-2002-era games that I bothered booting Windows at all for, basically. So now they're in an XP VM and I'm trying not to think about wrestling with the update arm-twisting on 8 again next time I boot it, now ;)

    * Tab complete is so much faster if you know where you're going, right? And it seems like whenever I search for anything in Explorer it always tries to tell me it doesn't exist when I definitely know it does. Now with a simple(ish) grep wrapper and a pipe or two I can actually FIND things that I search for! :)

    --
    Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
  25. Linux Kernel 4.4 LTS? by butlerm · · Score: 1

    Linux Kernel 4.4 LTS? There is no such thing. It is Linux Kernel 4.4, and which vendors support it and for how long is up to them. Maintainer patches to a stable branch may only go on for a year or two, if that. After that it is pretty much up to various vendors.