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Why LIGO's Black Holes Probably Didn't Come From a Single Star

An anonymous reader writes: Ever since LIGO first announced the direct detection of gravitational waves from two merging black holes, the physics and astronomy community has been struggling to understand an unexpected phenomenon that appears to have come along with it: a short-period gamma ray burst. Arriving just 0.4 seconds after the gravitational waves did, the Fermi satellite's detection doesn't line up with models of black hole mergers. It's thought that short-period GRBs originate from neutron star-neutron star mergers, and so seeing this has led to speculation of new physics, including from Avi Loeb at Harvard that perhaps LIGO's twin black holes came from inside the same star. However, this explanation is exceedingly unlikely, and there are a number of astrophysical explanations that don't require new physics like Loeb's explanation would.

46 comments

  1. No Forbes link please by Framboise · · Score: 5, Insightful

    On scientific matter Forbes is really not the appropriate source.

    1. Re:No Forbes link please by bsolar · · Score: 4, Interesting

      On top of that their site is worthless if you have an adblocker. Slashdot should ban such sites from being eligible as article links.

    2. Re:No Forbes link please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I have several aggressive ad blockers, privacy guard add-ons and even an ad blocker blocker and Forbes works fine for me. I only need to click deep links twice for some reason.

    3. Re:No Forbes link please by MrEd74 · · Score: 1

      Astrophysicist and author Ethan Siegel is the founder and primary writer of Starts With A Bang.

    4. Re:No Forbes link please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are they a good source of anything? I know recently they have put up several articles about Microsoft and Windows that are just straight mis-information, lies, and made up crap. I just assumed the whole site must be like that...

    5. Re:No Forbes link please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Forbes works fine for me. I use Chrome, uBlock Origin, Tampermonkey and Reek's Anti-Adblock Killer.

    6. Re:No Forbes link please by bsolar · · Score: 1

      Uhm, maybe it's Reek's Anti-Adblock Killer which does the trick: I'll try with it.

    7. Re: No Forbes link please by Fudge+Factor+3000 · · Score: 1

      It looks like it is yet another Startswithabang Forbes article. Only this time it is an AC submission.

    8. Re:No Forbes link please by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      "their site is worthless if you have an adblocker"

      They're doing you a favor, since the articles have negative value.

    9. Re:No Forbes link please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Forbes works fine for me also. All it took was an entry in my hosts file and I never go there.

    10. Re:No Forbes link please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to mention, the outfit was purchased by a group of Hong Kong investors, and is now mostly propaganda.

  2. Disks and Fields by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Merging accretion disks and magnetic fields surely provide the potential for all kinds of interesting pulses.

    1. Re:Disks and Fields by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

      Black holes with accretion disks are pulling the gas from a companion star. Both these stars are now black holes, and underwent supernova explosions which through off any remaining gas. Unless they are orbiting a third star (which survived 2 supernova) or have run into a very dense gas cloud, they have no accretion disks.

    2. Re:Disks and Fields by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *threw
      *supernovae

  3. Warning: Forbes link by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    The last link goes to StartsWithABang.

    1. Re:Warning: Forbes link by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's like Forbes is the new goatse.cx...

    2. Re:Warning: Forbes link by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Speaking of black holes...

    3. Re: Warning: Forbes link by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a red hole

  4. So, Forbes blocks your ad blocker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But if you disable it when loading the site, and enable it again later on (even while its still loading some of the ads!) you can bypass that. Happy ad-free forbes!

    1. Re:So, Forbes blocks your ad blocker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ad-free Forbes? That is like giving someone the option to consume fecal matter from the city sewers without getting horrible sick. I'll pass.

  5. An anonymous reader writes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ha, as if anyone believes that's not startswithabang.

  6. Millisecond pulsars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    There are millisecond pulsars, which are pulsars with a frequency above 1 Hz. The fastest rotating pulsar is PSR J1748-2446ad, with a frequency of 716 Hz. It's estimated that at the surface of the pulsar, at its equator, moves at 24% of the speed of light. It's pretty remarkable, but it's hardly the only millisecond pulsar. Now imagine if during the course of a star's death it became asymmetrical enough that the rotation caused it to develop a dumbbell shape. That could conceivably lead to binary neutron stars or, with enough mass, dual black holes. Ethan seems to be going against the prevailing views on what could formed the dual black holes.

    1. Re:Millisecond pulsars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They've only detect one event thus far, correct? As such that it must be something relatively rare in the universe. Is there a way to calculate the frequency of certain events and then work backwards to verify they match with present/future GW observations?

    2. Re:Millisecond pulsars by erebus2161 · · Score: 2

      Incorrect. They've only confirmed one event, but that doesn't mean that other events haven't been detected since which just haven't been confirmed yet. Also, the one event they've confirmed was detected during the engineering phase before the LIGO upgrades officially went live. We'll need to wait until more events are confirmed, but at the moment it appears as though these events are actually relatively common.

    3. Re:Millisecond pulsars by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      The relativity common is around six events like this a year I believe. Or at least that was what the guy who designed/built a bunch of the electronics in the detector said in the Colloquium on Wednesday if I recall correctly.

      My understanding is when the upgrades to advanced LIGO (LIGO was an older detector/experiment) are finished they should be able to detect neutron stars coalescing which is believed to be a far more common occurrence. Probably several times a week; again from memory,

    4. Re:Millisecond pulsars by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2

      IIRC six a year was what they were expecting when they designed LIGO. There was some speculation (not sure how reliable) that that rate might be a bit low, since there were (I believe) two or three other possibilities already in the data.

  7. Can we stop linking useless sites? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do I need to just boycott Slashdot itself again, after I've just gotten over the Beta debacle? On a site populated with predominantly techy/programmer type users, there's not likely to be many who don't use an ad-blocker - stop with the useless links.

  8. Hypothetic discussion by Zorpheus · · Score: 3, Informative

    It is not clear yet if there was really a Gamma Ray Burst detected. Other articles say that it was probably a fluke of the detector.

    1. Re:Hypothetic discussion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Someone hit the detector with a trout?

    2. Re:Hypothetic discussion by Muad'Dave · · Score: 1

      No, more like a flounder.

      --
      Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
  9. Slashdot - please ban this writer Ethan Siegel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This writer Ethan Siegel posts his articles to forbes.com which serves MALWARE to visitors by their advertisements. They try to force you to diable your adblocker in order to deliver to malware. Please ban him from the site.

  10. Single star to black hole by JohnStock · · Score: 2

    Why can't a single massive star collapsing into a black hole not trigger gravitational waves, why does it take two? Surely it's just the mass involved that's the important factor here?

    1. Re:Single star to black hole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sources of Gravitational Waves

      "In general, any acceleration that is not spherically or cylindrically symmetric will produce a gravitational wave. Consider a star that goes supernova. This explosion will produce gravitational waves if the mass is not ejected in a spherically symmetric way, although the center of mass may be in the same position before and after the explosion. Another example is a spinning star. A perfectly spherical star will not produce a gravitational wave, but a lumpy star will."

      "There are four main sources of gravitational waves caused by different kinds of motion and changing distributions of mass - continuous, inspiral, burst, and stochastic."

    2. Re:Single star to black hole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are several visualisations on youtube which attempt to show how it is the spiralling motion of a large mass causing a pattern of waves, not the collapse itself. If you could somehow get a single black hole or neutron star moving around in circles by itself it should have a similar effect, but there is no plausible way that could happen.

    3. Re:Single star to black hole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Continuous Gravitational Waves

      "Continuous gravitational waves are produced by systems that have a fairly constant and well-defined frequency. Examples of these are binary star or black hole systems orbiting each other or a single star swiftly rotating about its axis with a large mountain or other irregularity on it. These sources are expected to produce comparatively weak gravitational waves since they evolve over longer periods of time and are usually less catastrophic than sources producing inspiral or burst gravitational waves. The sound these gravitational waves would produce is a continuous tone since the frequency of the gravitational wave is nearly constant."

      Possibly something like Betelgeuse, that throws mass off in a asymmetric manner.

      "[Astronomers] noticed a large plume of gas extending outward at least six times the stellar radius indicating that Betelgeuse is not shedding matter evenly in all directions. The plume's presence implies that the spherical symmetry of the star's photosphere, often observed in the infrared, is not preserved in its close environment. Asymmetries on the stellar disk had been reported at different wavelengths."

    4. Re:Single star to black hole by ceoyoyo · · Score: 3, Informative

      The signal they detected has a quickly increasing frequency and amplitude, then a ringdown. You can't get that with a supernova, but it fits well what's expected from a couple of black holes spiraling together and merging. Thriip.

    5. Re:Single star to black hole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Inspiral Gravitational Waves

      "Inspiral gravitational waves are generated during the end-of-life stage of binary systems where the two objects merge into one. These systems are usually two neutron stars, two black holes, or a neutron star and a black hole whose orbits have degraded to the point that the two masses are about to coalesce. As the two masses rotate around each other, their orbital distances decrease and their speeds increase, much like a spinning figure skater who draws his or her arms in close to their body. This causes the frequency of the gravitational waves to increase until the moment of coalescence. The sound these gravitational waves would produce is a chirp sound (much like when increasing the pitch rapidly on a slide whistle) since the binary system’s orbital frequency is increasing (any increase in frequency corresponds to an increase in pitch)."

  11. No Neutrinos Supports This by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 1

    There was also no neutrino pulse detected which the literature suggests should exist if the merger took place near matter. However what I don't understand is the mass of the black holes. I understood that supernovae generated black holes of only a few solar masses, far less than 20+. Now I suppose it's possible that each one had merged before but if they have been wandering around in a region of space filled with stellar remnants surely they would have also picked up an accretion disk too in which case why no neutrinos?

    1. Re:No Neutrinos Supports This by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

      You're right, supernova wouldn't leave black holes of 30M size. These were created by core collapse straight to a black hole without an associated supernova. Maybe that leaves enough remaining material to form a disk?

  12. Detection not just creation by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 2

    Why can't a single massive star collapsing into a black hole not trigger gravitational waves

    It's not just a matter of producing the waves you need to produce a large enough amplitude that you can detect it. Planets orbiting stars should in theory produce gravitational waves too but the masses and accelerations involved create such a tiny amplitude at such a low frequency that even within the solar system we can't detect that source.

  13. Gravity waves to gamma rays? by avandesande · · Score: 1

    What effect do extremely strong gravity waves have on matter? They are saying that the energy released from this even was equal to 3 suns being converted directly into energy- that is just mind boggling...

    --
    love is just extroverted narcissism
  14. What is high-intensity grav radiation LIKE? by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 2

    This boggles my mind, too -- that much energy radiated away as gravitational waves in a fraction of a second.

    I have some referents for electromagnetic radiation -- I know what, say, a kilojoule of light is like, and what it can do when radiated over a few seconds or a few milliseconds. But what would it be like to have your body exposed to a gravitational wave pulse carrying several kilojoules, or megajoules, or terajoules? Would you even notice?

  15. I vote 3. from that list by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    3. The interstellar medium near the black hole contained matter, and the changes in magnetic fields during the merger (perhaps they do have strong magnetic fields!) caused a rapid acceleration of those charged particles, leading to gamma ray emissions.

    I vote 3. or maybe 4 - Quasar merge

    1. Re:I vote 3. from that list by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or maybe the gravitational passed straight through a nearby neutron star by ripping into it's core and destabilizing the nuclear reactions in some way.

      But.. statistics says, the event that you just happen to witness off the bat, assuming no crazy entropy, is a regular event. So, it's a neutron star collision then. New physics is the winner, as usual.