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Electric Bike Company Lets Users Create Replacement Parts with 3D Printers (3ders.org)

The manufacturers of a new electric bike are sharing 3D-printable files that let users create their own replacement parts and accessories. "We want to help all our customers to personalize and get the most from their electric bikes," the company explains on their web site, "by offering them unique and interesting parts, as well as spares, that they can 3D print at home for free." Powered by a 42V lithium ion battery, the $2,430 Trayser has a range of 60 miles at speeds up to 15.5 miles per hour. 3Ders.org points out that entire bike frames have also been generated using 3D printers.

44 comments

  1. Nice Idea... by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Conceptually a nice idea. From a practical and price-point standpoint, not really realistic. For the 3D printers that mere mortals can afford to own or have something made in, the part will likely not have the mechanical durability to be a moving part or a part that has to withstand stresses over time. There may well be commercial 3D printers that can make mechanical parts or parts that must perform under other types of stresses, but the cost of having it made verse buying it from a parts manufacturer will not be economical. As the summary states, whole frames have been printed, but good luck doing that on a hobby printer, or being able to afford having it done commercially for under 10 grand... But again, it's an interesting idea that one day will probably be realistic. Really, what they are doing is giving away their designs for free with the purchase of a bike, and there's nothing wrong with that.

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    1. Re:Nice Idea... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      TFA makes it clear that they are not giving away the complete design. They are only giving away the documents for the plastic accessory bits. But if they did, the only special tool you would need access to besides a 3D printer (for those bits) and a drill (preferably a drill press) would be a lathe and even then only for the purpose of turning the interior of the head tube - you could use the little one from Harbor Freight. They haven't built their own forks; that's possible by more or less the same means as the frame, but they wisely chose to forgo it. The frame appears to be designed to be cut by water jet, but you could do it with a drill and hand tools, if you were a masochist.

      --
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    2. Re:Nice Idea... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      3D printers aren't going to bring in a post-scarcity age, with jetpacks for all? Shocked, I am.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    3. Re:Nice Idea... by olsmeister · · Score: 1

      A good point ... however many of us will have access through work to a commercial 3D printer or CNC machine, or know someone who does.

    4. Re:Nice Idea... by hey! · · Score: 1

      The idea doesn't have to be ready for prime time, because of the tech adoption curve.

      When a new technology comes out -- say videocassette recorders or personal computers, very few people are willing to spend the money for something that, after all, they've been happy living without all their life. But a certain small fraction of the population will be attracted to something because it's novel. They're the early adopters, and they end up buying lots of useless shit. A small fraction of the stuff they buy, however, will turn out to be quite useful, and that will attract the attention of the next market segment, the pragmatists. When you attract their attention you've really got something, because now you've got a trend, and you attract the attention of the trend buyers. Now you're approaching the peak of the adoption curve, when you start roping in the people who don't want to be left behind. Eventually you work your way down to the people on the other end of the novelty-attraction distribution from the early-adopters -- the people who would prefer to be left behind.

      Assuming that e-bikes are still in the early adopter phase, where you really need to attract early adopters, hooking it up with other early-adopter bait is s smart move, even though it's meaningless to pragmatists.

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    5. Re:Nice Idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Computers got better, therefore everything will get better at the same rate. Luddite!

    6. Re:Nice Idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "When a new technology comes out -- say videocassette recorders or personal computers"

      ...which only deal in processing information, a weightless, massless, non-physical concept. Therefore any comparison is nonsense.

    7. Re:Nice Idea... by hey! · · Score: 1

      But the people are the same. Go to the sporting goods store and look at the fishing lures. I guarantee you the lures are designed first to catch fishermen, secondarily to catch fish.

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    8. Re: Nice Idea... by carolharlow323 · · Score: 1

      yes. might one find more sophisticated heavier duty equipment at a maker space?

  2. Fugly by Moof123 · · Score: 0

    That thing is fugly. And most home printers are going to spit out crappy ABS that simply should not be used for structural elements in the first place. Maybe print a cupholder to justify your dum purchase?

    1. Re:Fugly by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      And most home printers are going to spit out crappy ABS

      Absolutely shit tons of stuff is made from ABS. The stuff 3D printers print is decent enough.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    2. Re:Fugly by U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M · · Score: 1

      ...most home printers are going to spit out crappy ABS...

      That's not true, they can also spit out crappy PLA.

    3. Re:Fugly by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      The bike maker's website linked above actually details a bit more information. The structural components (like the ugly yellow plate in most of their pictures) are CNC'd aluminum, not plastic. Not sure where that confusion came from, if it was /. or the 3der's site. The Summary incorrectly conflates CNC and 3d printers, they are not the same thing, one is additive, the other subtractive.

      --
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  3. replacement parts/customization without 3d printer by sittingnut · · Score: 1, Insightful

    people have been making replacement parts and customizations of all sorts of equipment and vehicles using variety of tools such as lathe machines and other power tools, since at least start of industrial revolution, if not earlier.
    having another way to do the same, 3d printers, is nice. but not all that new.

  4. Mostly non-essential parts by HockeyPuck · · Score: 5, Informative

    Looking at the bike itself, the frame is aluminum and the wheels/brakes/handlebars/seat are all common off the shelf parts. So you're not going to be printing anything that is structural. The list of parts you can print are non-essential

    -iphone holder
    -speaker holder
    -cup holder
    -mud guards
    -motor cable clip
    -brake clips

    Most of that stuff is $10 and below. So in order to do this, you'd have to first buy their $2400 bike and then a 3d printer. I guess if you already have both of these, you can save $10 on a mud guard by printing one yourself.

    I do give the company props for giving out the plans, but i'm not sure anybody is going to buy this bike because of this giveaway.

    1. Re:Mostly non-essential parts by monkeyxpress · · Score: 1

      I do give the company props for giving out the plans, but i'm not sure anybody is going to buy this bike because of this giveaway.

      Not because of the giveaway, but definitely from of all the publicity they have gotten from this gimmick.

    2. Re:Mostly non-essential parts by edittard · · Score: 1

      - Moustache grooming kit holder.
      - Lomo mount.
      - Rack for spare stupid woolly hat that you wear even in August.

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    3. Re:Mostly non-essential parts by wings · · Score: 1

      I see the possibility someone would take the basic 3D plans for the simple parts and tweak the designs to customize their bike, or to create other add-ons. Having the 3D plans and altering them would be much easier than creating from scratch. Someone might spend $2400 for that capability.

    4. Re:Mostly non-essential parts by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      STL files.

      Which are semi-processed shapes, a bunch of triangles, akin to the data sent to OpenGL/DirectX. Not the raw 'uncompiled' shape data.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  5. Battery vs range? by grimJester · · Score: 1

    This has a 25 kWh battery and 50 miles range (urban) with a 2kW motor. A Tesla Model S has an 85 kWh battery and 265 miles range. The Tesla gets over 3 miles per kWh while this gets 2.

    How does this work - I'd assume a low power motorcycle would draw far less energy than a car?

    1. Re:Battery vs range? by dfghjk · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you should look a little more carefully at their bogus numbers.

      The battery in the Trayser is 42V 20Ah or 840 Wh. This is a largish battery capacity for an electric bike. The charger has a gross power input rating of 480W and a charge time of 5 hours.

      The Raker has a 72V battery (twice the voltage) with a 5A charger (2.5x the power) and identical charge time. That would suggest a battery capacity of 1.25x the Trayser or 25Ah. The capacity listed is "25 kWh". Do you think they might have published the wrong units? 25Ah yields a capacity of 1.8KWh, not 25. That means a consumption of 36 Wh/mile or about 28 miles/KWh which reasonable for a bike not intended to be used pedal-assisted.

    2. Re:Battery vs range? by grimJester · · Score: 1

      You're probably right. 25Ah seems reasonable while 25kWh would be far more than expected and weigh 300+ lbs.

    3. Re: Battery vs range? by carolharlow323 · · Score: 1

      as electric bike owner, i can say that the quality of the motor most likely is he source of inefficiency compared to a tesla. hmmm... now there's an idea.. maybe the entry level tesla should be a well-designed and mass produced electrc bicycle instead of a $35.000 car

  6. Good range! by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

    I like that this is getting almost 100 km (officially). Most electric bicycles have about half that which means : you can go 50 km away but can't go back? - you can, but you will be hauling a lot of dead weight on 50 km.
    Short range electric bike would suck ass, unless it fits your need e.g. short commute in moutain / hilly area.

    In some cases.. It's either a "good" thing or a bad thing, but if you have to carry an electric bike upstairs (and better, with days worth of groceries) that's quite the work out. So that you can get it plugged into the mains.. and to not let a fecking $2000 bike hang around in the street.

    At that price financing gets needed.

  7. Nice looking personalized stuff, not saving money by grimJester · · Score: 1

    Even the summary says "personalize and get the most from". Heck, if 3d-printing the stuff was cheaper than what the manufacturers do, wouldn't the manufacturer do that and sell a cheaper bike?

  8. 60 miles in summary, 50 on website by grimJester · · Score: 1

    Just noticed there are differing numbers. Small enough to be irrelevant, I guess.

  9. Re:Nice looking personalized stuff, not saving mon by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

    I imagine that some of it is purely for the feel-good: '3d printing!' probably isn't a bad marketing gimmick if you are trying to sell a techie-toy electric bike; but some of it may also come down to scale.

    You need some pretty esoteric shapes before 3d printers, of any quality, can beat conventional methods for reasonable sized production runs; but the cost per unit tends to climb pretty steeply if you aren't ordering in decent quantities. Unless the manufacturer sells enough of these bikes that they can make a reasonable prediction of how many replacement part X, optional widget Y, etc. they'll need to produce and keep on the shelf, they run the risk of things going out of stock and annoying customers, things rotting on the shelf and typing up money until they eventually sell or have to be scrapped, and that sort of supply chain fun.

    I'm not sure where their sale numbers are relative to the break-even point on mass production of spares and option parts; but the desirability of handling that aspect of support, and the economics of mass production vs. short-run techniques definitely change with the size of the user base. Something on the scale of a common car model may well support multiple, competing, vendors of mass produced spares and options(usually with the vendor trying to enforce a premium by one means or another). Something on a much smaller scale may make support an unfortunate necessity that you do only because your customers will be unhappy if they can't get the parts they need.

  10. "Lets"? More like "helps" by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

    Electric Bike Company Lets Users Create Replacement Parts with 3D Printers

    That word implies they weren't "allowed" to before.

    Though given the behaviour of other companies with regards to third-party spare parts...

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
  11. 3D Models are not "plans" by Bruinwar · · Score: 1

    They make .stl available, which is pretty cool. However these are not "plans", they are just "dumb" 3D models made of a lot of triangles with no easy way to edit/modify. There are no real dimensions, no tolerances, & if by "plans" you mean engineered drawings, obviously they are not providing those.

    As I said, it's still pretty cool. I mean if you already had a 3D printer (or access to one). Even with access the material is usually pricey so this would still be expensive. I do have access to a high end 3D printer but for any of the larger parts I would have to run it on the weekend & hope to not get caught. So far they've just approved each purchase of the material but some day they are going to ask where it's all going.

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    1. Re:3D Models are not "plans" by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      They make .stl available, which is pretty cool. However these are not "plans", they are just "dumb" 3D models made of a lot of triangles with no easy way to edit/modify.

      You can load them into a CAD package and modify them.

      There are no real dimensions,

      The file format is completely metric. Load into a CAD package and measure whaever you want.

      no tolerances,

      Not really sure what you'd do with tolerances with a 3D printer.

      Even with access the material is usually pricey so this would still be expensive.

      Not for most FDM printers. I can walk into an actual shop in London and walk away with reels of ABS for about 25 pounds per kilo. You can get it cheaper online.

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      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    2. Re:3D Models are not "plans" by Bruinwar · · Score: 1

      You can load them into a CAD package and modify them. The file format is completely metric. Load into a CAD package and measure whaever you want.

      You can load the STL file but you can't "modify" it easily. You can cut it, add some features to it but you can't change it the base model as it is a "dumb" model. I have one open right now. You can't even effectively measure it as it is made of triangles. You can get close but there are no diameters, no flats to measure, so you can only get a close idea of the size of a particular feature.

      Not really sure what you'd do with tolerances with a 3D printer

      Not a lot for rapid prototyping but many postings on this article claimed that the manufacturer was giving away I.P. or "plans". The stereolithography format (.slt) files give little to no real I.P. away. We generally only share eDrawing files (with the no ability to measure) or PDF U3D when customers ask. They look great but are next to useless for reverse engineering. As is .stl, next to useless for reverse engineering.

      Not for most FDM printers. I can walk into an actual shop in London and walk away with reels of ABS for about 25 pounds per kilo. You can get it cheaper online.

      That I did not know. I've seen these reels of ABS used at the Maker fair but the stuff they were making certainly didn't seem really detailed. I assume there are higher end machines that could print better parts using that same inexpensive material. We have several choices of materials, one of which claims to be an ABS (Digital ABS PolyJet Photopolymer). All of these are very expensive mainly because they have to come from the people that made the printer.

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    3. Re:3D Models are not "plans" by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Fiar enough with regards to STL. It's fine for things like mounting brackets. Cut off everything else, then smoosh it into whatever thing you want to mount and it'll be fine.

      That I did not know. I've seen these reels of ABS used at the Maker fair but the stuff they were making certainly didn't seem really detailed.

      Depends on the printer. I've got an early model printrbot. It requires quite a lot of love and attention to get really good prints, but I can get really good prints. In practice though 0.1mm is the smallest practical layer height and the nozzle is 0.35mm diameter, so that limits the feature size. Also, the slicing programs are not very good at estimating inner sizes of things, plus the plastic isn't 100% predictable so you get lower resolution than that in x, y.

      Newer/higher end machines are getting pretty good. There's some nice FDM ones made with all ball screws, super rigid and etc which give great prints with little effort (as good as the expensive stratasys printers, from what I've seen).

      If you want high res, you need to go for a different technology like stereolithography (available for not outrageous amounts), or some more exotic ones, but the materials are not as good as ABS ultimately.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    4. Re:3D Models are not "plans" by Bruinwar · · Score: 1

      So once I clarified my original post, for the most part, we agree. As much as I would like to invest in a 3D printer, I just can't think of stuff to make. Maybe I'll find some inspiration at the next Maker fair if my son still has an interest in going.

      I can see me dropping 1K on a printer & having it just sitting there mocking me.

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    5. Re:3D Models are not "plans" by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      So once I clarified my original post, for the most part, we agree.

      Yep.

      As much as I would like to invest in a 3D printer, I just can't think of stuff to make.

      I wouldn't buy one unless you can think of at least one or two things you'd like to make. Bear in mind though that the FDM printers now have a quite wide range of materials, PLA and ABS are common, HIPS is similar, but there's also carbon fiber reinforced ones, ninjaflex (an elastomer), wood effect ones and so on.

      I can see me dropping 1K on a printer & having it just sitting there mocking me.

      You can get very servicable ones now for about $400. Still a bunch to drop on one without any firm ideas of what to make though.

      Even given the relatively low precision, they are more flexible than one might imagine. For example you can reel off gears and mechanisms. The gears are remarkably good considering. The lulzbot for example has an extruder built with 3D printed gears. Despite heavy and abusive use (in a hackspace), I believe the gears needed replacing once.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  12. start pedaling fatties by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What is wrong with a bicycle with pedals? There are plenty of fatties out there that could use to do some pedal pushing.

  13. LOL by p51d007 · · Score: 0

    For the price of the bike, you can by several bikes. And who are you going to get, to print the parts? You cheap a** plastic 3D printer can't.

    1. Re:LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This. Money would be better spent on a real bicycle, where you get actual exercise. There are a lot of people who really need the exercise. I don't see this "bike" as any different than the scooters you see at Walmart where the asses hang off the side of them.

  14. Re:#3dprinterspam by U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M · · Score: 1

    "Nobody cares about your stupid useless computers" – Anonymous cowards in the early 1980's.

    Less than four decades later, not only does practically everyone have a computer in the form of a smartphone, they're carrying it with them 24/7.

  15. Re:replacement parts/customization without 3d prin by U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M · · Score: 1

    I think the major differences between subtractive and additive manufacturing are the noise and the mess.

    Subtractive manufacturing is usually noisy and it makes a mess from the cuts. Not something you would do anywhere but a workshop, which people living in apartments don't have. Excessive noise for hours with neighbours on the other side of the walls.

    Additive manufacturing can be quiet enough with a good quality 3D printer that you won't even hear it from the next room even with the door open (bushings, microstepping) and there's no mess except the fumes that can be filtered out with an enclosed printer and a proper EPA filter.

  16. /. title expresses unethical power over owners by jbn-o · · Score: 1

    "Bike Company Lets Users Create Replacement Parts" is a part of the problem. That word ("Lets") creates the impression that before the issue is even discussed EditorDavid and whomever else is involved in writing /. article posts has decided the default should be to deny bicycle owners the freedom to help themselves by making replacement parts with or without the vendor's cooperation and thus this requires permission. Therefore we're supposed to think it's generous that a bike company "lets" people do this. Nonsense.

    It's nice when manufacturers make it easier for owners to make and install replacement parts but it's wrong and unhealthy for the public to view the situation as though this behavior is off-limits by default unless permission is granted. One should celebrate this cooperation and use this cooperation as a reason to do business with these organizations. But don't hobble yourselves into seeking permission to maintain things you own. Down that road lies a lack of freedom, DRM, and more.

    A better headline would be to replace "Lets" with "Helps".

    1. Re:/. title expresses unethical power over owners by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      The day is coming, perhaps soon, when designs for physical 3D parts will not be able to be protected by either copyright or patent. A simple 3D scanner will eliminate the possibility of keeping it hidden.

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