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Apple Refused China Request For Source Code In Last Two Years: Lawyer (reuters.com)
Dustin Volz, reporting for Reuters: Apple has been asked by Chinese authorities within the last two years to hand over its source code but refused to do so, the company's top lawyer told U.S. lawmakers at a hearing on Tuesday. Apple general counsel Bruce Sewell made the statement in response to a line of attack from law enforcement officials who have attempted to portray Apple as complicit in handing over information to Chinese authorities for business reasons while refusing to cooperate with U.S. requests for access to private data in criminal investigations. Apple and the FBI returned to Washington to testify before lawmakers about their heated disagreement over law enforcement access to encrypted devices, highlighted in the case of a locked iPhone linked to a gunman in last December's Islamist militant-inspired shootings in San Bernardino, California. Earlier in the hearing before a House Energy and Commerce subcommittee, Captain Charles Cohen, commander in the Indiana State Police, repeated the suggestion that Apple has quietly cooperated with Beijing. But when pressed by Representative Anna Eshoo, a California Democrat, for the source of that claim, Cohen only cited news reports. "That takes my breath away," a visibly frustrated Eshoo said. "That is a huge allegation."In some other Apple news, the Cupertino-based company complied with 80% of U.S. law enforcement requests in the second half of 2015, its just released transparency report shows. U.S. law enforcement asked Apple for information 4,000 times, covering 16,112 devices in the second half of 2015.
In my mind, handing over source code might be less damaging than handing over encryption keys, which is what the DOJ was suggesting at one point in their brief/response to the All Writs Order...
The FBI is looking for a fig leaf to cover up the fact that they tried to establish a legal precedent through deceit. Your tax dollars at work.
can be seen as Treason and if come down to it trump may be the one to fire the shot.
I can't be that difficult to strip it down in a reverse engineering lab, and get at the binaries to disassemble etc.
The source code means fuck all if you can't recreated it and compare it to what's deployed on devices.
Time for them to be Made in the USA or they can be black listed from us GOV use.
A Made in the USA iPhone would cost $2,000+
Apple made a good choice in refusing to give their source code to the ChiComs. If they had done that we'd probably see knock off versions of OS X already.
People would still line up to buy it
You and I would. Everyone else would switch to Samsung.
You and I would. Everyone else would switch to Samsung.
Where they could all then enjoy that bastion of user privacy and security that is Android...
China routinely ignores copyright when it suits them. If Apple was to hand over the source code, I suspect that there would be, just a few months later, *EXACT* iPhone "clones" complete with 100% compatible operating system, except jail-broken of course, available for $100 each.
And then poof -- Apple is out of business.
And they would sport names such as "Arple IF-one" to really, really, make you wince. Right now, China is producing cars that look like BMWs, for domestic use within China. China is making $30 ham-radios that are clones of a Kenwood design, and the Kenwood is a $150 radio.
How are you going to compete with that? They do almost zero R&D, and then make cheap copies of existing products using the existing R&D of some other firm. When we get to the point of China making everything and all other companies are out of business, expect to see no innovation for decades that follow.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
You forgot: BURMA SHAVE.
We went through this with Japan, eventually the people/companies that become successful start making their own stuff because it's easier.
Regardless if they get there over time without cheating or cheat their way, eventually we are going to have to face a competition of competent Chinese businesses that can do the same things as the rest of the world. They are just shaving some time off of that process.
The whole corporation vs. government thing is a charade. Corporations are well on their way to being the government in America.
or maybe '...and, whitey's on the moon'.
it even fits the angst, too.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
How are you going to compete with that? They do almost zero R&D, and then make cheap copies of existing products using the existing R&D of some other firm. When we get to the point of China making everything and all other companies are out of business, expect to see no innovation for decades that follow.
Thats pretty much standard for any country trying to catch up to more advanced industrial nations. The US did it when we began industrializing and once we had enough homegrown companies developing technology we all of a sudden became big fans of patent and copyright protection. Once people start stealing form China they'll come around as well.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
No, it wouldn't.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
U.S. law enforcement asked Apple for information 4,000 times, covering 16,112 devices in the second half of 2015.
Which equals 4.028 phones per request. So it's like the gov is looking at groups of people more than individuals.
No sig for you! Come back one year!
"We need to get into the San Bernadino terrorists' phone!!!"
Any more on that? They got in right? What'd they learn?
And when other countries do the same, how many jobs in the USA go down the tubes ?
Quite apart from the fact that that will break a lot of trade agreements, or are you now saying the agreements/contracts the US signs can be broken because you say so. Exactly how does anyone trust the US again if you prove that contracts are worthless ?
Just remember the USA makes up 4% of the worlds population, and many of the large US corporations make more money by dealing with the 96% than they do with US customers. Also be prepared for the cost of everything in the USA to go up in price, unless you intend to force wages down to Chinese levels.
The EU is a BIGGER economy than the US and China if it is not already 2nd, it will be in the next couple of years.
And they would sport names such as "Arple IF-one" to really, really, make you wince.
What would really make me wince is: Aqqle iPhome 6 Prus
You forget what Jobs told Obama at one of their final meetings (and was reported in NYT): even if Apple wanted to charge the price of what it would cost to make it in the USA, they could never find the volume and quality (willingness) of a factory full of engineers to design and build with the flexibility they want.
"Those jobs are not coming back."
That is all true. I was thinking more from the security point of view. And it would be a hard choice -- compromise the security of all devices out there, or compromise the intellectual property of the company long term. In that hypothetical, it might be a decision to pull out of China altogether...
Well, your "something" was wrong, in no small part due to the fact that the OP was right.
If you don't do your own R&D, you'll never be able to produce anything *original*.
If you don't do your own R&D, your competitors will *always* make it to market first, so you give up 'first mover' advantage.
Those two reasons (among many others) are how companies build market share.
And by the way, the diversity of mobile phones in China (and Japan/Korea) is way beyond what we have here in the US, where Apple is pretty well regarded as superior to most other brands. In those countries, many other brands offer similar functionality -- and I would argue that Apple gets bought (partly) as a status symbol because of its price and Western cachet.
So having its IP copied to lower cost phones that look the same might not eat much into the (maybe limited) market that Apple could capture in China anyway. But when you're talking about a billion people, of course it adds up to a big market at stake.
Anyway, back to topic, I might argue that Apple would even prefer to develop a separate iOS and encryption key for China it it believed that someday it had to turn those over...
The difference is that there wasn't a global economy during those times (at least not on the scale we have today). During those times, If a company in Germany developed a very robust widget and an American company directly copied it, the impact wasn't catastrophic to the German company. Now, with R&D done in one country and manufacturing done in another, if your manufacturer goes rogue, he can cause real and potentially fatal harm to your business.
The difference is that there wasn't a global economy during those times (at least not on the scale we have today). During those times, If a company in Germany developed a very robust widget and an American company directly copied it, the impact wasn't catastrophic to the German company. Now, with R&D done in one country and manufacturing done in another, if your manufacturer goes rogue, he can cause real and potentially fatal harm to your business.
Solution: Stop outsourcing your production to third world shitbags for pennies -they will screw you to try and make a living.
Produce quality goods locally and sell them at a price that supports local workers.
How are you going to compete with that?
You don't. You slap massive tariffs on their imports.
The US created the Chinese monster, and now we have to starve it.
It's very well known that the Chinese government either has the keys or that Apple is decrypting them within a few days for the government of China. Apple's being deliberately deceitful. There's a reason that they've become the dominant smartphone, and it requires government approval.
oh, and by the way, their transparency report deliberately conflates FBI intrusive requests with podunkville police asking if this IMEI has been reported stolen to Apple.
Your post highlights exactly the problem I have with the "everything should be free and open source" mantra. If the R&D is given away for free with open source and no patent protections then obviously nobody ends up paying for that R&D and you get products built by whoever can manufacture them the cheapest, innovation stalls because innovation has no value to innovators. When it is monkey-see, monkey-do integration/maintenance work then that's fine and those projects benefit from being open source but when it is innovation it is the innovators that lose out and the monkeys that win off the back of their work.
China's market is a glimpse of what it would look like if we abandoned "IP" like the FOSS advocates pontificate, and gave everything away for free(dom). Everybody has the freedom to copy and make changes and distribute them.
You must be an old fuck
The difference is that there wasn't a global economy during those times (at least not on the scale we have today). During those times, If a company in Germany developed a very robust widget and an American company directly copied it, the impact wasn't catastrophic to the German company. Now, with R&D done in one country and manufacturing done in another, if your manufacturer goes rogue, he can cause real and potentially fatal harm to your business.
There was a pretty robust global economy,it just took longer to ship stuff than today but the industrial,reveloutionnusheredcinna new era in global trade as countries industrialized and began mass production of previously hand made items.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
Think about this, If China tells Apple hand over the code or the cost of making your devices will be going up or stop making them all together.
That Jobs isn't coming back either.
Where any technically competent person can protect their data and not rely on Apple, who are known government accomplices when it comes to handing over user data, to protect them. In fact by default the Android passcode system is far more secure than Apple's 4 digit numeric variant.
Where any technically competent person can protect their data and not rely on Apple, who are known government accomplices when it comes to handing over user data, to protect them. In fact by default the Android passcode system is far more secure than Apple's 4 digit numeric variant.
1. Apple is known government accomplices, hahahahahahaaaa. The Hate is strong in this one...
2. Apple's Passcode allows up to 52 alphanumeric and punctuation character Passphrases using iOS' 104 character keyboard. Here's an article that shows just what that means, time-wise. Add to that the increasing wrong-guess delay (not to mention the 10 try limit), and you have what might be referred to as "your basic impossibility". If you'd spent as much tiime reading the multitudinous posts on Slashdot that pointed those facts out as you do spewing Apple Hate, you'd know that.
1. Apple is known government accomplices, hahahahahahaaaa. The Hate is strong in this one...
There is no hate. Apple capitulated to thousands of government requests, I don't "hate" them for doing this. In fact my primary phone since I started using smartphones has been an iPhone because I find it far superior to the Android, Blackberry or Windows Phone offerings.
2. Apple's Passcode allows up to 52 alphanumeric and punctuation character Passphrases using iOS' 104 character keyboard.
Of course but rarely is this used in comparison to the default 4-digit numeric passcode (also predominant on Windows devices), admittedly for convenience. Whereas Android's default system, the lock pattern, provides the same convenience with much more security so that even in the case of the 10-digit timeout being bypassed the data itself is still encrypted with a relatively strong key in comparison to iOS's numeric option. The other option is to take convenience through the fingerprint sensor and use a strong passcode.
If you'd spent as much tiime reading the multitudinous posts on Slashdot that pointed those facts out as you do spewing Apple Hate, you'd know that.
Nobody is "spewing apple hate", your interpretation is unfortunate and you would do well to detach yourself emotionally so you do not get upset so easily at your own misinterpretation.
Timmy's 300 billion bazook dollars is sitting in Chinese Banks and now he does THIS!
If Tim would just instruct the 300 Tax Attorneys at Apple to re-paitriate the money by international and IRS banking rules he would at least get $300,000 dirty dollars instead of the Chinese taking everything!
Mrs. Timmy blows another!
Ha ha
You and I would. Everyone else would switch to Samsung.
Which is Made in America?
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
Blatantly false. I have not seen any evidence that the US disregarded patents early in its history but will concede that this may have happened. As far as innovation in the US it happened from the start. Cyrus McCormick and the first 6 frigates spring to mind. I suspect you are repeating or forging a convenient narrative but one that is demonstrably false.
Note the the original patent laws denied protection for foreign patents. For further reading here are two sources:
https://www.techdirt.com/blog/innovation/articles/20130228/01324622146/yes-us-industrial-revolution-was-built-piracy-fraud.shtml
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2013-02-01/piracy-and-fraud-propelled-the-u-s-industrial-revolution
The bottom line is countries do what they feel is needed to catch up with the rest of the world. That's not to say the US wasn't innovation but even so they used various means to get an advantage by taking other countries ideas and copying them, and ultimately improving them.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
According to TFS, Apple complied with 80% of govt. requests.
They always say 80% is good enough, right?
Not made in China.
If they need 10,000 engineers to wake up at 2am to deal with production issue, you're doing it wrong.
All the automation, refined processes, reduced part count, etc, should reduce manufacturing requirements over time.