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How Richard Feynman's Diagrams Almost Saved Space (quantamagazine.org)

An anonymous Slashdot reader shares a fond remembrance of Richard Feynman written by Nobel prize-winner Frank Wilczek, describing not only the history of dark energy and field theory, but how Feynman's influential diagrams "embody a deep shift in thinking about how the universe is put together... a beautiful new way to think about fundamental processes". Richard Feynman looked tired when he wandered into my office. It was the end of a long, exhausting day in Santa Barbara, sometime around 1982... I described to Feynman what I thought were exciting if speculative new ideas such as fractional spin and anyons. Feynman was unimpressed, saying: "Wilczek, you should work on something real..."

Looking to break the awkward silence that followed, I asked Feynman the most disturbing question in physics, then as now: "There's something else I've been thinking a lot about: Why doesn't empty space weigh anything?"

Feynman replied "I once thought I had that one figured out. It was beautiful..." then launched into a "surreal" monologue about how "there's nothing there!" But Wilczek remembers that "The calculations that eventually got me a Nobel Prize in 2004 would have been literally unthinkable without Feynman diagrams, as would my calculations that established a route to production and observation of the Higgs particle." His article culminates with a truly beautiful supercomputer-generated picture showing gluon field fluctuations as we now understand them today, and demonstrating the kind of computer-assisted calculations which in coming years "will revolutionize our quantitative understanding of nuclear physics over a broad front."

42 comments

  1. Totally cool... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... that it's an awesome article and a totally cool picture. Saves me some reading. Next!

  2. Re:Eternity by Alain+Williams · · Score: 0

    What evidence do you have of this ?

  3. Exothermic or Endothermic by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 0

    Perhaps he'll finally be able to answer the question about whether hell is exothermic or endothermic.

    1. Re:Exothermic or Endothermic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But, a continually expanding hell would not get hotter, and may even freeze over.

      The question is whether hell is of infinite size or not

  4. Re:Eternity by seven+of+five · · Score: 0

    "Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company..." -- Mark Twain

  5. Re:Eternity by rossdee · · Score: 0

    When it says 'almost saved space' I don't think they are refering to the 'saving' thtat Jesus does

  6. Don't make him into a Saint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Look the big issue with particle physics is time going backwards. Feyman put a nice diagram on it, but its just wrong. The niceness of the diagram causes you to fail to question the underlying assumption.

    We have lots of systems where time *appears* to go backwards, and they are *observational* effects, not real effects.

    So for example, lightning appears to travel from ground to sky often. Yet the sky is discharging to the ground, not the ground to the sky. Is this lightning going backwards in time? No. We understand this, because we realize that visible lightning is the plasma created as the discharge heats the air. The discharge is already happening before the plasma is created, and the plasma can begin from any hot point in the discharge. The ground and sky are usually quite fixed points, so the discharge starts from one or other.

    i.e. the observation appears to go backwards in time but because we understand what's going on, we realize its an observation not real.

    Now we know particle physics cannot send particles backwards in time. A simple logic test tells you that. For example if a particle splits in two, one going backwards in time, we can detect that, kick away the original particle, so it could not have split, so its subparticle could not have gone back in time to be detected.... i.e. a paradox.

    So any effects you view in the cloud chamber that appear to go backwards in time do not, they are observation effects only.

    Now certain 'proofs' are cited as proof of time travel. e.g. Entanglement. And you can realize this yourself by CRITICALLY looking at the various entanglement experiments. For entanglement to be real it needs time travelling particles/waves. When you measure a photon and it behaves like a wave, the photon needs to have gone back in time and change its properties so that every earlier split photon from it, is also correctly behaving like a wave.

    So for example you examine the Delft entanglement 'proof': Electron A makes Photon AP, Electron B makes Photon BP, the Photons AP and BP are 'entangled'. The the spin of Electron A is measured and the spin of Electron B is measured. Is there correlation between the two? i.e. is entanglement real? No, they behave totally independently. The experimenters then filter the experimental set. Now they measure AP and BP and determine they are "the same in all possible ways". If they're not, they discard the result and only keep results where they are the same.
    Is Electron A spinning like Electron B? Yep... hurrah... we've 'proved' entanglement.... except that comes from this experimenter filtering.

    So entanglement isn't real, the photon really has no idea whether the matter its interacting with is a test of wave or particle, and has no way of going backwards in time to change it's behavior.

    So, no time travelling entanglement, and you can't cite it as proof of time travelling particles.

    So laud Feyman all you like, but don't try to canonize his work as some sort of insightful fundamental truth, it's not. It's a continuation of the basic Niels Bohr flawed thinking.

    1. Re:Don't make him into a Saint by NEDHead · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This clearly falls into the 'not even wrong' category

    2. Re:Don't make him into a Saint by Deadstick · · Score: 2

      The Internet. Where science goes to die.

    3. Re:Don't make him into a Saint by rasmusbr · · Score: 2

      Not exactly. Physicists and laymen alike have been confused about the weirder aspects of quantum mechanics since long before the internet.

      I remember silently refusing to believe that my middle school science teacher was telling the truth about the double slit experiment. It seemed obviously wrong. Some searching on Altavista changed (and blew) my mind.

    4. Re:Don't make him into a Saint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Searching online isn't likely to help once one's confirmation bias becomes strong enough.

      The AC at the top of this thread is posting junk that has been mostly copy-pasted in one form or another on nearly every Slashdot article that vaguely mentions quantum mechanics. If you go far enough back, you can find very detailed and cited rebuttals. But those stop because the original poster(s) never actually looks at citations and very carefully cherry picks complicated experiments that are easy to misinterpret while ignoring much simpler ones and the vast number of variations of the more complicated ones.

      The posts might be made by a clever troll who knows enough to rile up people with a physics background by contradicting basics that one would experimentally play with in an undergrad lab while appealing to people who have no background via confidence and details that are wrong in more subtle ways than just simply being word salad. Whether or not a troll, people who know enough to counter the posts realize they are wasting their time trying to do so. And it would take a lot of time considering how often this junk gets posted, and on Slashdot, if you say something enough times with confidence, it gets modded up eventually.

    5. Re:Don't make him into a Saint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now we know particle physics cannot send particles backwards in time. A simple logic test tells you that. For example if a particle splits in two, one going backwards in time, we can detect that, kick away the original particle, so it could not have split, so its subparticle could not have gone back in time to be detected.... i.e. a paradox.

      The problem with this argument is thinking of you (the person doing the kicking) as a non-quantum mechanical entity "outside" the experiment. You're not. You're as much a part of the system as the particle you're measuring. Now, for most experiments your effect on the system is negligible, and it's perfectly reasonable to ignore it. However, if you deliberately set up the system such that you're a critical part of the experiment (as you do in your thought experiment), you can't neglect the contribution of the observer.

      The other thing is that you're taking about particles going back in time as an optional thing. In Feynman's formulation, they're not. "Everything not forbidden is compulsory." Since particles *can* go back in time, then they do, always and in every way they can. Why don't we see this happening normally? Self consistency. Particles traveling back in time can do so in a large number of different ways. When you run the numbers, you see that most of those different ways have quantum mechanical interference with each other. This means most, if not all, of the backward-in-time paths cancel each other out, leaving only the forward-in-time path we actually observe.

      So how does this affect your thought experiment? Well, you are a quantum mechanical system, which means the particles in your body also travel back in time (and have to), and interact with the experiment's particles. The self consistency principle means that the particles in your body and the particles in the experiment can only take a trajectories which are consistent with one another. Any inconsistent trajectories self-interfere and cancel out.

      This means that if you were somehow to build your kicking apparatus, you might see the particles go back in time, but you flip the switch and all the backward-traveling particles stop occurring. Turn it off again and they reappear. Think you're clever and will switch the kicker on after you detect the backwards-traveling particle but before it splits? Sorry, once you make that decision you don't see backwards-traveling particles anymore, even when the kicking apparatus is turned off -- well, except for the times when you're slow on the switch. You do see the backwards traveling particles, but only on those times when you're not fast enough to turn the machine on in time.

      It's like you're trying to measure the airspeed of a swallow. You know they're fast, but any time you put your 10 kg GPS tracking rig on them, they just sit there, not moving. Remove the tracking rig and they're back, flitting around. It's almost as if by measuring something you change the observables. (Which we all know should be impossible for quantum mechanical systems! /s)

    6. Re:Don't make him into a Saint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whether or not a troll, people who know enough to counter the posts realize they are wasting their time trying to do so

      And this is how the internet can kill science. I've watched numerous colleagues who were all very enthusiastic about outreach and science education online, only to have them discover how much time can be sunk by a handful of people. The internet gets spammed by crackpots and half-assed pop-sci articles, while those that could help are taught they are wasting their time.

    7. Re:Don't make him into a Saint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Look the big issue with particle physics is time going backwards. Feyman put a nice diagram on it..."

      Doing my part, mod me up Scotty.

    8. Re:Don't make him into a Saint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Internet. Where science goes to die.

      No no no. You should have said "The US, the place where science dies".

    9. Re:Don't make him into a Saint by sexconker · · Score: 1

      The other thing is that you're taking about particles going back in time as an optional thing. In Feynman's formulation, they're not. "Everything not forbidden is compulsory." Since particles *can* go back in time, then they do, always and in every way they can. Why don't we see this happening normally? Self consistency. Particles traveling back in time can do so in a large number of different ways. When you run the numbers, you see that most of those different ways have quantum mechanical interference with each other. This means most, if not all, of the backward-in-time paths cancel each other out, leaving only the forward-in-time path we actually observe.

      "Everything not forbidden is compulsory"

      "Why don't we see this happening normally?"
      "most, if not all, of the backward-in-time paths cancel each other out"

      If we don't see it happening then it's not compulsory and is forbidden.

      Please stop clinging to celebrity scientists because you like the idea of what they say. Testable theories, experimentation, and results (positive or negative) or STFU.

  7. Dick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I.....*almost* saved..?

  8. I have an Ikea wall-size cabinet with many drawers by johannesg · · Score: 1

    It saves a lot of space too. Just so you know it isn't just Feynman doing all the cool stuff.

  9. "Almost saved space" - What nonsense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mr Feynman's diagrams are of course an extremely useful tool, but space existed well before the diagrams and well before Richard himself did. Space will continue to exist for quite some time after his passing too.

    Space never cared about any of this. It just was.

    Stupid headlines are stupid.

  10. More Feynman hero worship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Aww, that was our Dick

  11. Re:Eternity by rastos1 · · Score: 2

    ... as someone who knows the truth ...

    You do?

  12. Re:Eternity by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

    Why should my soul care what the temperature is when it seems less worried about the lack of oxygen.

    --
    Nullius in verba
  13. Deeper than it appears by N7DR · · Score: 2

    From the summary, you could be excused for thinking that the article it's talking about is rubbish. You'd be wrong. The subject of the mass density of space is a lot deeper than you might think if you're not a theoretical physicist. The article is actually remarkably good at laying out and discussing the problem. In fact, the subject is a bit like Feynman diagrams themselves: initially they look like simple cartoons (which they are) that can't have any deep meaning ... but they can. Definitely worth a read if you have an interest in, and basic understanding of, the modern ideas regarding particles and fields.

  14. Re:Eternity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm really looking forward to joining Feynman, but how can we burn for eternity? Wouldn't that require us to be of infinite mass and produce an infinite amount of heat? Show your math.

  15. Why doesn't empty space weigh anything? by manu0601 · · Score: 2

    At the end of the paper, we realize that decades after Feynman, we still not know why empty space does not weight anything, while at the same time it is full of particles created by quantum fluctuation.

    1. Re:Why doesn't empty space weigh anything? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When confronted by a paradox, we must make a list our assumptions first, then find those of them which will have to go.

    2. Re:Why doesn't empty space weigh anything? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no expectation that space would have weight from vacuum fluctuations, because the net energy is zero and that is all that a simplified version of GR would care about if just looking for attractive forces. However, there other other possible forces within GR, and vacuum fluctuations can lead to a pressure term, which is what we actually see with dark energy. The big question isn't why empty space weighs nothing, as that is to be expected, but why quantitatively the pressure disagrees with observation by a huge number of orders of magnitude, even if they qualitatively follow the same effect.

    3. Re:Why doesn't empty space weigh anything? by sexconker · · Score: 1

      If a region of space contains mass it is not empty.

      There I fixed it.

  16. Huffman saved space, not Feynman by GuB-42 · · Score: 1

    I don't know how much space Feynman diagrams saved but that's certainly nothing compared to Huffman coding.

  17. Re:Eternity by lucien86 · · Score: 1

    Better to be a free man (or woman) in hell than a slave in heaven.. :) baaa... baaa....

    --
    Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..