Microsoft Announces Surface as a Service, Windows 10 Enterprise E3 for $7 Per User Per Month (zdnet.com)

Mary Jo Foley, reporting for ZDNet: Microsoft plans to make its recently renamed Windows 10 Enterprise product available as a subscription for $7 per user per month, or $84 per year. Microsoft took the wraps off the pricing of one of the two renamed versions of Windows 10 Enterprise at the company's Worldwide Partner Conference in Toronto on July 12. Windows 10 Enterprise E3 is the name of the lower-end of two different versions of Windows 10 Enterprise. Windows 10 Enterprise E5 is the new name of the Windows 10 Enterprise version that also will include Windows Defender Advanced Threat Protection, a new Microsoft service for detecting and responding to attacks. Microsoft announced the renaming of Windows 10 Enterprise last week, and said the E3 and E5 versions will also be available as part of "Secure Productive Enterprise" bundles.Microsoft also announced a subscription service for Surface tablet. The company says that its Cloud Solution Providers and Surface Authorized Distributors can now sell Surface as a Service.

Comments

Rent-Seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you say "rent-seeking," ladies and gentlemen? MS knows they're out of ideas, so their next step is to "Office-ize" their entire vertical stack, from hardware to OS to applications. Predictable, and ultimately a very dangerous move for ordinary consumers.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

How many "ordinary consumers" do you know that use the Enterprise edition of Windows?

Re:Rent-Seeking

[tripleevenfall]

Not to worry, citizen! Your OS and Tablet will be automatically upgraded by Microsoft to a subscription model, for your convenience!

Re:Rent-Seeking

[thoromyr]

...to be followed by truly heart-felt apologies and the addition of a "No Thanks" widget that will immediately initiate the upgrade.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[cayenne8]

Can you say "rent-seeking," ladies and gentlemen? MS knows they're out of ideas, so their next step is to "Office-ize" their entire vertical stack, from hardware to OS to applications. Predictable, and ultimately a very dangerous move for ordinary consumers.

Hmm....I'm not sure how well received this will be in the private corp world, but I'm pretty sure in the Federal Govt world, especially DoD and maybe VA with sensitive, classified or privacy patient data, this isn't going to go over too well, especially the potentially always external connected part.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[PsychoSlashDot]

Not to worry, citizen! Your OS and Tablet will be automatically upgraded by Microsoft to a subscription model, for your convenience!

No. Just no. Stop perpetuating this. While Microsoft has made many missteps with Win10, this isn't one of them. Yet.

Enterprise was never free to upgrade. It was always a product available only through volume licensing, usually with Software Assurance, which is a yearly fee.

Home and Pro have no sign of moving to a subscription plan at this point. That might change some day, but there's no sign of it yet.

Like last week's "revelation" that the latest Win10 build includes some SUBSCRIPTIONTHING.EXE and folks like you coming out of the woodwork to say "I told you so", despite Microsoft very, very clearly explaining that the file had nothing to do with Pro/Home installs and was purely for Enterprise, the FUD is getting annoying. I'm no fanboy, but to date, your suggesting has no basis in fact.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Calydor]

Anyone that wants to decide when Windows lags them out of stuff in the interest of downloading updates, for one.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[kheldan]

I work for one of Microsoft's major (probably biggest) 'partners corporations', and I'd be honestly shocked if they went along with a 'subscription' model; I'd think it'd be more along the lines of, "You either give us one-shot enterprise licensing like always, or maybe we stop supporting your software with our hardware"

Re:Rent-Seeking

[TheFakeTimCook]

Home and Pro have no sign of moving to a subscription plan at this point. That might change some day, but there's no sign of it yet.

That is only because they don't have the requisite datacenters built. Yet.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

In addition to their own usage, the Federal Govt / DoD determine the choices of an enormous market segment.
In the good old says, the Secretary of Defense would fly out to Redmond to meet with Bill Gates.
These days, the strategy meetings are not so public, but have not become less important.
Microsoft doesn't make major changes without prior consultation and blessings from their No.1 customer.
You can take that to the bank - and many have.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[nmb3000]

Home and Pro have no sign of moving to a subscription plan at this point.

Are you sure? Does it need to be in 150-foot tall neon for it to qualify as a "sign"?

Given the direction they've taken consumer and enterprise Office, the newly announced enterprise Windows subscriptions, and the claim that "Windows 10 is the last version of Windows", what other conclusion can be made? And on top of that, desktop sales have slowed as newer machines tend to last users a lot longer than they historically did. With all this in mind I think it's entirely reasonable to deduce that within a year or two all editions of Windows will be sold via subscription.

The real question is what they will do with existing installations. Will there be a year or two grace period after which point your license expires and will require a subscription renewal? Or will they allow existing licenses to continue in perpetuity? Will offline installation still be possible or will yearly renewals be required via phone for disconnected machines? Either way, Microsoft will probably price it such that they even claim it's a "savings" because the "average user" would have spent more to upgrade Windows every two years than they will in subscription fees.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Rob Y.]

The actual writing on the wall is that the home (and school) computing markets have become Chromebook markets. For Microsoft to compete there, they need to move their entire application stack into the cloud (which they've already done a great deal of). Then strip down Windows into a form that can be auto-upgraded behind the scenes like Chromebooks can.

There may remain a market for traditional Windows desktops, but it's a shrinking one. Microsoft already has enough of a strangle hold there to keep it, but it's losing the Chromebook market - and they don't like to lose. They'll make Windows available for traditional desktop PC's - and maybe they'll sell some kind of subscription service for upgrades, but ultimately PC OS upgrades are going to go away - in the sense that they'll be 'hidden and automatic' like on Chromebooks, or 'free and automatic' with a subscription on PC's - or just free as in "we can't sell upgrades any more, and it's more trouble than it's worth to continue to support old versions, so...".

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

I was just cursing about the issue with the today's updates halting the Microsoft Partner conference presentation and all ongoing downloads to a complete halt, all the while trickling the update as slow as a snail. :))

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

Yet.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

Going to bookmark your post so that in 6 months we can all say "Toldya so!!"

Captcha: punitive

Re:Rent-Seeking

[norweeg]

direction? what direction? Volume licensing is not new. It is not a sign of anything!

Re: Rent-Seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

The writing on the wall is as clear as a billboard.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Hylandr]

Not

Yet.

at this point

Very soon I will be able to say

"I told you so"

MS has been introducing this change on us like proverbial 'boiling frog'. It's coming and I think even you are starting to see the light or you would have used more assertive in your statements.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Ol Olsoc]

Not to worry, citizen! Your OS and Tablet will be automatically upgraded by Microsoft to a subscription model, for your convenience!

No. Just no. Stop perpetuating this. While Microsoft has made many missteps with Win10, this isn't one of them. Yet. Enterprise was never free to upgrade. It was always a product available only through volume licensing, usually with Software Assurance, which is a yearly fee.

I notice that you conveniently forgot Surface. Tell me, do the same reasons aplpy to it as W10 Enterprise?

At what point does the truth become the truth? You can shill all you want, but the Cassandras, of which I am one, have pretty much nailed everything that you people say wasn't happening or going to happen. It phones home to mysterious places, it keylogs, it has your passwords and gives them to anyone on the social networks of people who you allow to access your computer. And it ignores hostfiles for the special places it reports to. And wordsmithing will get you nowhere on this.

And here we have the first shots across the bow of the predicted and inevitible subscription service to Windows ten. Just like we Cassandras said would happen. It takes either monumental stupidity, pathological dissembling, or a paycheck to deny it at this point. This Cassandra says it is coming to all versions of W10. So No! you just stop it. It isn't FUD when everything you call FUD is provable truth or so obviously going to happen that it makes no discernable difference.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Ol Olsoc]

The actual writing on the wall is that the home (and school) computing markets have become Chromebook markets.

The reason that Chromebooks are winning the home and school markets is that they just work. I have a Chromebook along with all my other computers, and the problems are so few as to be negligible. I have yet to find a Microsoft OS computer that ever lived up to that not so lofty goal. I don't use that particular computer for anything serious unless I boot into the Linux side, but for most people, its email and browsing.

And you aren't chearged 80 some dollars a year (to start) for access to the Chromebook. Now imagine Microsoft coming in to replace say, a thousand student and 50 teacher school. Unless they give the laptops and OS and Office 365 away, who would ever jump at that?

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Wdomburg]

Chromebooks sold something on the order of 1.6 million units last quarter. Considerable, and a strong growth trajectory, but overwhelming into education, not the broader consumer market.

But then you have the convertible market. The last quarter of 2015 saw unit sales hit 8.1 million units, including 1.6 million Surface devices and 2+ million iPad Pros).

That's what Chromebooks are competing against; not "traditional Windows desktops". There have been a ton of Windows devices flooding into the market, offered at prices similar to Chromebooks (HP Pavillion x360, Transformer Book Flip, Dell Inspiron 11 3000, Aspire Switch, etc).

Microsoft already has a full online productivity suite, but I'm not sure why "in the cloud" is necessarily a pre-requisite. Chromebook is moving away from this model by introducing locally installed Android apps. Having data in the cloud (with local caching of course) makes more sense, but Microsoft has had that for years with OneDrive.

And Microsoft has *already* moved to a rolling release model, going so far as to refer to Windows 10 as "the last version of Windows, and updates are *already* automatically downloaded and applied (unless you change the settings or the domain administrator configures a different servicing option).

I'm curious to see what happens with the Chromebook market. They have strength in the educational market, largely in part to price, but also their simplicity and interchangeability ("Broken machine? Here, take another, log in with your Google account, and you're pretty much good to go.") It's possible that by opening the platform up to locally installed apps and more local storage they may damage the essential appeal.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Areyoukiddingme]

It's possible that by opening the platform up to locally installed apps and more local storage they may damage the essential appeal.

That seems unlikely. The addition of locally installed apps and more local storage doesn't mean they will lose all of the support for back-end services. Logging in with your Google account to a new machine will still give you access to all your apps. The locally installed ones will start downloading in the background, and meanwhile the online versions will be available. Your local files will start downloading from online backup.

Now if you took advantage of locally installed apps and that local storage to keep the machine offline entirely for some considerable time, preventing automated backup, you might have a problem. But that seems like an unusual use case, and I bet ChromeOS will start prompting you. "No backup for 5 days. Maybe you should turn on your wifi." So to really get yourself in trouble, you'll have to seriously work at it. In which case, you get what you deserve.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[PsychoSlashDot]

The real question is what they will do with existing installations. Will there be a year or two grace period after which point your license expires and will require a subscription renewal? Or will they allow existing licenses to continue in perpetuity?

And therein lies the answer. Microsoft just pushed as hard as they could for everyone on Home and Pro to upgrade to Win10. Thing is, those licenses were perpetual, and the replacement license for Win10 isn't subscription. If they pull a bait & switch and degrade our perpetual licenses into a subscription product, there will be lawsuits. Successful ones.

Same thing goes for anyone who bought a new PC in the last year with Win10 installed on it. Perpetual.

They can't even play the game of "oh, you don't qualify for anniversary edition unless you 'subscribe'", because without a version change, these are just updates and support fixes, regardless of introducing new features.

I'm not saying MS won't ever add subscription OS licenses. But to date there remains no actual sign of that happening. The sky is not falling.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[PsychoSlashDot]

MS has been introducing this change on us like proverbial 'boiling frog'. It's coming and I think even you are starting to see the light or you would have used more assertive in your statements.

I hear you. I honestly do. Market trends make it seem obvious. But the repeated "there you, told you" posts every time news is posted that ISN'T about our existing licenses going subscription is getting really, really old.

Microsoft leasing hardware and offering software that already is subscription-related (mostly) isn't evidence. It's just not.

Re: Rent-Seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

So you think we should take Microsoft at their word when they constantly bait and switch, reneg, and pivot like a see-saw? Screams fanboy to me.

Re: Rent-Seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

Gov/DoD will get their own, hardened version that will work offline.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[hairyfeet]

"Like last week's "revelation" that the latest Win10 build includes some SUBSCRIPTIONTHING.EXE and folks like you coming out of the woodwork to say "I told you so", despite Microsoft very, very clearly explaining that the file had nothing to do with Pro/Home installs and was purely for Enterprise"

Yeah about that....then WTF was it doing in a HOME OS, care to answer me that? Last I checked Windows Insiders are NOT testing Enterprise Products, all the Insiders get is the Home/Pro version. And please do not forget it won't have been the first time MSFT has lied to our faces, remember "The Kinect is an integral part of the Xbox One, we can't just flip a switch" until they did exactly that?

I'm sorry but this past year with all the underhanded shit we have seen with Win 10 has proven to just about everybody that they simply cannot be trusted anymore, hell they have made Windows Update into a risk because "no means no" is something nobody has taught to MSFT. The sad part is I NEVER thought I'd see the day where I would actually miss Steve Ballmer but Nutella and all his underhanded crap pushing Windows 10 makes me actually miss the big sweaty monkey.

BTW for those that want to lock in the "free upgrade" in case the hackers figure out a way to kill all the spying? Here is a tutorial on how to lock in the upgrade without actually installing win 10 which is a hell of a lot quicker than having to install then roll back to a decent version.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

That's what they told me about Office too. But the people who still use Office (often because it's a requirement from school) are stuck with a monthly subscription.

Re: Rent-Seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

Shut the fuck up you Microsoft shrill.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

> Are you sure? Does it need to be in 150-foot tall neon for it to qualify as a "sign"?

There was such a sign, but it half sunk into the mud and now spells, in the local language, "go stick your head in a pig".
It is no longer illuminated except on special occasions.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[PsychoSlashDot]

Yeah about that....then WTF was it doing in a HOME OS, care to answer me that? Last I checked Windows Insiders are NOT testing Enterprise Products, all the Insiders get is the Home/Pro version.

That's easy. It's one ISO. There's been a progression over the last few OS generations that one image is used for multiple different editions. You unlock Home/Pro/Enterprise by supplying the appropriate key. Same thing for many server products.

And please do not forget it won't have been the first time MSFT has lied to our faces, remember "The Kinect is an integral part of the Xbox One, we can't just flip a switch" until they did exactly that?

Something something Occam. Last week it's "this executable is regarding Enterprise subscriptions" and this week it's "hey, we're announcing Enterprise subscriptions", and you think it's more likely both events are evidence that Home/Pro is (in the immediate future) going subscription than they are... exactly what they are?

I repeat, there are marketing trends that are valid as evidence that Windows will at some point gain "value-add" software-as-a-disservice un-features. The ass-tonnes of money being made by O365 are pretty weighty, evidence-wise. There's a huge incentive. But the executable from last week and the announcement that Enterprise is now available on a monthly basis in addition to via Volume License subscriptions... not evidence that that end.

I'm sorry but this past year with all the underhanded shit we have seen with Win 10 has proven to just about everybody that they simply cannot be trusted anymore, hell they have made Windows Update into a risk because "no means no" is something nobody has taught to MSFT. The sad part is I NEVER thought I'd see the day where I would actually miss Steve Ballmer but Nutella and all his underhanded crap pushing Windows 10 makes me actually miss the big sweaty monkey.

New word: rantagraph. Thank you for inspiring me.

BTW for those that want to lock in the "free upgrade" in case the hackers figure out a way to kill all the spying? Here is a tutorial on how to lock in the upgrade without actually installing win 10 which is a hell of a lot quicker than having to install then roll back to a decent version.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

I think that you are all forgetting that M$ can change the terms of the license at will. That has been (not necessarily clearly spelled out) part of the Windows EULA. They are trying to introduce the subscriptions slowly to get people used to the idea. Makes me glad that I kicked Windows off all of my computers, and now all run Linux Mint(KDE).

Best description of Windows 10: One OS to rule them all, one OS to find them. One OS to bring them ALL and in the Darkness Bind them!

M$ to customers:
I am altering the deal, pray that I do not alter it further!

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

the FUD is getting annoying. I'm no fanboy, but to date, your suggesting has no basis in fact.

This has become par for the course on Slashdot when it comes to Microsoft. We have seen comments modded up decrying how Microsoft was "plastering users' computers with ads" when what they are actually referring to is a single line of text under the word "Suggestions" which you can even turn off by just toggling the "Occasionally show suggestions in start" switch in Control Panel. It's the most minor problem with the simplest possible solution, have Microsoft products really gotten that good the one of the worst criticisms is an optional one-liner in the start menu?!?!

I'm not sure whether this is people who just don't know what they're talking about, have an agenda served by perpetuating FUD or just genuinelly think that statement is a realistic reflection of reality. In any case it makes the whole community seem pretty devoid of technical knowledge, it's more about whining than it is about helping people solve problems.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

Home and Pro have no sign of moving to a subscription plan at this point. That might change some day, but there's no sign of it yet.

They have every sign of moving to a subscription. That or they'll start harvesting even more of your personal, private data directly from your computer and filling your UI with ads. Of course you'll be able to pay a "convenient" monthly or annual fee to get rid of the ads (but not the spyware).

Anyone who downgraded to Windows 10 is a sucker.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

Given the direction they've taken consumer and enterprise Office

That not only gets MS Office out to users on platforms other than Windows but also allows Microsoft to compete with Google's paid apps offerings.

the newly announced enterprise Windows subscriptions

Yes enterprise you know the one that required Software Assurance subscription? This eliminates the issues around SA because you always needed the subscription anyway in addition to the cost of the license, it's now rolled into one.

and the claim that "Windows 10 is the last version of Windows"

If you're going to take that statement at face value then no there won't be a subscription version of Windows because Windows 10 is not subscription and it apparently is the last version of Windows.

This inability to see the forest for the trees is why slashdotters are historically terrible at predicting tech trends: Microsoft is dead, Microsoft is going to EEE (insert product), Nomad trumps iPod, Year of the Linux Desktop, iPad is a pointless device nobody will want, etc... The mere fact that a veteran slashdotter proclaims Windows is going subscription pretty much confirms that it won't be so.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

Existing installations will remain free or until the hardware no longer supports the latest update. Any new PC requires a new Windows 10 license and existing installations are not transferable to another PC. Once the PC expires, so does the license. In addition, old hardware is progressively (aggressively?) phased out so that each update to the OS cuts support for CPU's of a certain age so it will become impossible to decide to install Windows 10 on older hardware if you later decide too. Want Windows 10? Buy new metal.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

Going to bookmark your post so that in 6 months we can all say "Toldya so!!"

Everybody's using Linux on the desktop now, Microsoft is dead, Nomad is the mp3 player of choice, FOSS killed proprietary software and the iPad was a gimmick that never caught on.

...No wait, that's not it, MIcrosoft owns the PC market such that you now cannot install Linux on a desktop PC, you have to pay monthly just to use your computer and Java and web standards are dead and buried thanks to "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish".

...Argh no that's not it either. If there's one thing that we know for certain it is that slashdotters' predictions of the future are *always* wrong.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Waccoon]

Or will they allow existing licenses to continue in perpetuity?

For a very long time, MS has done a good job of keeping KB archives active. Since the release of Windows10, I've noticed a large number of KB articles disappearing without a trace. It's getting very difficult to look up technical information on Windows7, let alone WinXP or earlier. In many cases, trying to find tech articles for Windows7 just redirects you to a page advertising an upgrade to Windows10.

MS doesn't need to officially revoke licenses. These days a product doesn't even need to be labeled "unsuppoted" to become a real PITA to use.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah about that....then WTF was it doing in a HOME OS, care to answer me that?

Because it's one distribution and the features are dictated by your license level.

Last I checked Windows Insiders are NOT testing Enterprise Products

They're also not testing that windowssubscription.exe yet there it is! How 'bout that.

remember "The Kinect is an integral part of the Xbox One, we can't just flip a switch" until they did exactly that?

They caved to public pressure and found a way to make it happen, yes it required some work and they couldnt' just "flip a switch" but they did that work and you're trying to paint that as a bad thing?! Apple said the same thing about deleting pre-installed apps, yet now they've backflipped. Hey they also said their products would never have a stylus, yet now they've backflipped. Microsoft said Linux was a cancer and now they've backflipped and started supporting and contributing to it.

Companies often say things and then later decide "hey that wasn't the best thing for our customers so we need to find a way around it". If they came out and said they were going to make all Windows versions subscription only would you believe them? Or would you say they were lying and going to backflip?

I'm sorry but this past year with all the underhanded shit we have seen with Win 10 has proven to just about everybody that they simply cannot be trusted anymore

Then switch to another operating system and be done with it. This "microsoft can't be trusted" rhetoric has been ongoing for the better part of the last 2 decades yet ultimately nobody cares.

BTW for those that want to lock in the "free upgrade" in case the hackers figure out a way to kill all the spying? Here is a tutorial on how to lock in the upgrade without actually installing win 10 which is a hell of a lot quicker than having to install then roll back to a decent version.

Holy fucking shit, on the one hand you're bitching about Microsoft not being able to be trusted and then on the other hand, instead of advocating for a non-Microsoft system like OSX or Linux or FreeBSD you're advocating a path to keep them on Microsoft products.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Killall -9 Bash]

No, those people use Win7.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Killall -9 Bash]

You forgot to mention ads in the metro(sexual) start menu.

I can't decide.... is the start menu's left side purposely annoying and cumbersome to use because they want to funnel our attention over to the pretty pictures (with ads) on the right.... or is the start menu's left side purposely annoying and cumbersome to use because they want to funnel our attention into Cortana...?

Re:Rent-Seeking

[exomondo]

But the people who still use Office (often because it's a requirement from school) are stuck with a monthly subscription.

No they aren't. Why would they be stuck with a monthly subscription when you can just buy the standalone perpetual version?

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Ol Olsoc]

You forgot to mention ads in the metro(sexual) start menu. I can't decide.... is the start menu's left side purposely annoying and cumbersome to use because they want to funnel our attention over to the pretty pictures (with ads) on the right.... or is the start menu's left side purposely annoying and cumbersome to use because they want to funnel our attention into Cortana...?

Yes.

Opening pdf's in Edge certain is enough to piss off the pope as well.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

They have every sign of moving to a subscription.

That would make absolutely no sense for home users, in fact even Office isn't subscription-only.

That or they'll start harvesting even more of your personal, private data directly from your computer

But they aren't doing any of that now, there is a big difference between telemetry data (and yes even OSX's default on installation is to opt you in to telemetry data collection) and "havesting" your personal, private data. Don't be so obtuse as to pretend you think they are the same thing.

and filling your UI with ads.

But it's literally one line of text under "suggestions" and you can even just flip a switch and turn it off.

This website used to be a haven for tech experts, now it's just home of the incompetent nitwits like you.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Calydor]

Alright, I will admit to that particular point.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[deniable]

This will be for the OpEX over CapEX rapid upsize / downsize organisations. They can change their numbers monthly and immediately expense it rather than having to predict sizes and expenses for three years at a time. These are the same people who do Office 365 monthly rather than getting it baked into an EA.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[arglebargle_xiv]

No, no, I think you've got it wrong, they're going to pay users $7/month to use Windows 10. Not enough unfortunately, I'd maybe consider it for several hundred a month, but I'm not inflicting Win10 on anyone for a lousy $7/month.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Blaskowicz]

Windows Vista and 7 Ultimate version users, I believe. That's a superset of the Enterprise edition.
I was "burned" by Windows 7 not including the old Unix subsystem except on Enterprise and Ultimate (just kidding, I wanted it to play with it and run simple software but I'm still pissed over it)

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Wdomburg]

There are a ton of Android applications which strictly use local storage for state data, configuration and state. It doesn't matter that ChromeOS supports back-end services if the applications don't use them.

So you log with your Google account to a new machine, and maybe it restores the installed set of applications (or at least gives access; you probably don't want the same set of applications on every single device associated with your Google account), but your shopping list app is empty, your RSS feeds are all missing, your downloaded podcasts are gone, etc, etc.

Chromebooks were essentially the descendants of thin clients and dumb terminals. The limitations were deliberate and net positives for their intended use cases. Removing those limitations has benefits, but it also has costs.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Rob Y.]

I would imagine schools and libraries, etc. will still have an option to disable loading android apps.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

true but I can't imagine it going way even though it is shrinking since it is still necessary to have non-interconnected machines for stability - eg music and video performance, courtroom use media, etc. We still don't have 100% data coverage for wifi so having a brick 75% of the time doesn't really work.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

That would make absolutely no sense for home users, in fact even Office isn't subscription-only.

Making money doesn't make sense? You must be new to business...and the world in general.

But they aren't doing any of that now

You cannot possibly know if they are or not. Their EULA specifically says that they can, so I have no reason to believe that they aren't, since they are trying to transition from a software company to an advertising company.

there is a big difference between telemetry data

Nope, "telemetry" is marketing for "spyware".

But it's literally one line of text under "suggestions" and you can even just flip a switch and turn it off.

Bullshit. The fullscreen ads and ad tiles aren't just one line of text. Even if they were, that type of stuff has absolutely zero place in an operating system.

This website used to be a haven for tech experts, now it's just home of the incompetent nitwits like you.

Oh, just shut the fuck up apologist/marketing shill.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[exomondo]

You forgot to mention ads in the metro(sexual) start menu.

What ads? On the right are live tiles, which aren't ads and on the left the only thing close to an add is whatever appears under Suggestions, which you can just turn off. Problem solved.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Ol Olsoc]

Wowsers! My email has been filled with reports of the range war over my post above. Seems some folks insist it is a Troll, and others insightful.

Too bad some of the faithful cannot refute all of my points, instead of shills with mod points trying to bury it.

I mean really, prove what I wrote is incorrect lies or just plain wrong.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

It phones home to mysterious places

If you know it "phones home" then you must know where, so how exactly is it a "mysterious place"? If you're paranoid about it just block those at the router level.

it keylogs

By "keylogs" you mean it uses what you type to improve auto-correction. Pretending you don't see a difference between that and a keylogger is like saying Google and Apple have people in your house spying on you and listening to what you do based on the always-on Siri and Google Now. It's perpetuating a fear of technology on the basis of a lack of understanding of technology.

it has your passwords and gives them to anyone on the social networks of people who you allow to access your computer

Citation? Or is it that you are referring to the option to allow sharing of your wifi passwords with other people? Because that's a far cry from what you're saying, but you seem to lack the understanding (or at least pretend you're that stupid) to even know the difference.

Just like we Cassandras said would happen.

But that's not it, this is the combination of the software assurance subscription with the OS license. You "cassandras" also said the would EEE all manner of things and they never did anything of the sort, you have the worst track record of predicting things it is possible to imagine.

It isn't FUD when everything you call FUD is provable truth

Ok so prove it then, the things you have said are demonstrations of a fundamental lack of understanding or intentional obtuseness.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

Too bad some of the faithful cannot refute all of my points

Your points lack any citation of any kind and even the things they are remotely close to representing are so far from what you said it's laughable.

But I'll ask you here anyway: Prove what you have said is true, you are the one making the claim so back it up with some evidence. Doing so will demonstrate precisely why your post is a troll. For example you said:

it has your passwords and gives them to anyone on the social networks of people who you allow to access your computer

Now if this is true then you can demonstrate to me how such a person can get say my internet banking password. But I already know you can't do that because you're lying and your post is a troll.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Ol Olsoc]

To shorten up your my reply to yours, the places W10 phones home to are easily found if you wireshark them. They have been posted in here and other places.The mystery is not the names of where the phoning home occurs, but what is behind the names. Some might be normal checking for updates, maybe checking for legit software. The mystery is in the number.

Their allowing other people in a known friend's social network onto your wireless network after you allow a known friend on it is known and called WiFi Sense. You want citations? Here's your citations:

http://www.extremetech.com/ext... http://bgr.com/2015/08/03/wind...

Your cute definition of keylogging is noted. You do realize that is saying that word processing and email is keylogging as well? Obviously there are times we want info going to Microsoft. This is not about those times.

Anyhow, there is plenty of documentation out there of Windows 10's invasiveness, And sorry, you didn't disprove anything.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Ol Olsoc]

it has your passwords and gives them to anyone on the social networks of people who you allow to access your computer Now if this is true then you can demonstrate to me how such a person can get say my internet banking password. But I already know you can't do that because you're lying and your post is a troll.

Look up wifi sense. If you allow someone using Windows 10 or a Windows phone access to your wireless network, it will share that with others. So your buddy Joe's shady cousin can log on to your local network.

This is pretty well documented by Microsoft and others, I'm a little surprised that a W10 expert doesn't know that. Do you really need the citations? Okay, http://bgr.com/2015/08/03/wind...

They did finally kill it after massive outrage: http://www.extremetech.com/com...

As for my other assertations, if you have W10, you've certainly read the security and privacy settings? It's all in there, except for the telemetry part So here ya go: http://arstechnica.com/informa... https://forums.untangle.com/we...

http://www.dslreports.com/foru...

As well, they bypass your hosts file a good bit. Anyone really concerned about privacy should have a non-microsoft firewall in the loop. Note that some sites they don't allow you to block should be allowed os that your computer acts properly.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Wdomburg]

Possibly, but that means someone needs to know to lock down the devices before deploying them, which is far from guaranteed. And even if they know, all it takes is one teacher successfully arguing that their students "need" some particular Android application before the floodgates are opened (especially if the OS/2 effect kicks in and ISVs stop targeting Chrome because Chromebooks can just run the Android app instead).

Re:Rent-Seeking

[beastofburdon]

In 2-3 years when it does happen, I will be here to remind you, that I did indeed tell you so.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

it has your passwords and gives them to anyone on the social networks of people who you allow to access your computer Now if this is true then you can demonstrate to me how such a person can get say my internet banking password. But I already know you can't do that because you're lying and your post is a troll.

Look up wifi sense. If you allow someone using Windows 10 or a Windows phone access to your wireless network, it will share that with others. So your buddy Joe's shady cousin can log on to your local network.

So when you say "it has access to your passwords" what you actually mean is that there was an optional feature to share your wifi password with others. So why didn't you say that to begin with? Why were you being deliberately ambiguous? Because you were trolling, instead of spreading information you were purposely spreading FUD. I told you that you wouldn't be able to demonstrate how such a person could get my internet banking password, you failed just as I said you would.

If I told you I had "your passwords" what would you understand that to mean?

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

Your cute definition of keylogging is noted. You do realize that is saying that word processing and email is keylogging as well?

Yes I do, that is why I created that definition, to demonstrate to you that labeling specific things with overly broad definitions demonstrates that either you dont understand the thing you are talking about or you are pretending not to and really at a certain point it makes no difference which category you fall into.

And sorry, you didn't disprove anything.

If you bothered to read I was asking you to prove your claims like said you would be able to do. The only thing you have proven is that Windows 10 used to have a feature called wifi sense that, if enabled, would share your wifi password. Are you really going to pretend you don't see a difference between that and the statement you made:

it has your passwords and gives them to anyone on the social networks of people who you allow to access your computer

You're really going to tell me you don't see the difference? If so then the one thing you do prove is that the truth isn't compelling enough to serve your agenda so you create FUD instead. To be fair I agree with you, wifi sense is a bad feature but let's not pretend it is something other than the specific thing that it is.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Ol Olsoc]

So when you say "it has access to your passwords" what you actually mean is that there was an optional feature to share your wifi password with others. So why didn't you say that to begin with? Why were you being deliberately ambiguous? Because you were trolling, instead of spreading information you were purposely spreading FUD. I told you that you wouldn't be able to demonstrate how such a person could get my internet banking password, you failed just as I said you would.

If I told you I had "your passwords" what would you understand that to mean?

Bullshit. Tell me what the difference is when someone you don't know amd never met can access your wifi not because you let them, but because you let someone else log on to your system? You can even have typed in your password so the initial person doesn't know it. But it doesn't matter, because everyone they are friends with on FB can attach to your wifi, with absolutely no permission from you.

If thy are logged in. they have yer faking password dood! Doesn't matter if they don't personally know it, just you and Microsoft know it. What is more, this is an opt-out system. Since most setups suggest using express settings, it was enabled by default.

And despite your faith that it is an awesome feature, Ther was enough outrage that even Microsoft took it out of W10

Re:Rent-Seeking

[PsychoSlashDot]

In 2-3 years when it does happen, I will be here to remind you, that I did indeed tell you so.

Yeah, I get it. The result is likely. What I object to is the "evidence" that isn't anything to do with the topic.

Re:Rent-Seeking

[Coren22]

Perhaps you are thinking of Windows 10 Pro?

Aaaannnd there it is...

[Lab Rat Jason]

So no shock here... windows as a service for 3x the price you used to pay. Nice move Micro$oft.

Re:Aaaannnd there it is...

[Anonymous Coward]

In other new... Micro$oft continues to prove indeed water is wet. I mean what-else where they really gonna do?

Re:Aaaannnd there it is...

[sunderland56]

If you can say "Surface as a service" ten times in a row, Microsoft will give it to you for free.

Re:Aaaannnd there it is...

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Windows 10 Enterprise will be 100% cheaper for up front cost and 20% cheaper for annual cost, compared to the same SKU for Windows 8.1 Enterprise with Software Assurance (pre-paid upgrade rights, basically).

Not 3x the price you used to pay in any math system I'm familiar with.

Re:Aaaannnd there it is...

[UnknownSoldier]

Innovate.

Oh wait, M$ has copied Apple since '95 and instead we get a gaudy, crappy, UI in turn.

Hey it only took them 27 years to include Bash in Windows 10 !

Re:Aaaannnd there it is...

[barc0001]

"Good artists copy, great artists steal" -- Steve Jobs.

No doubt said as he was running a device with a UI stolen from Xerox.

Re:Aaaannnd there it is...

[newbie_fantod]

Good artists copy, great artists steal

Yeah, Jobs stole that line from Picasso.

Re:Aaaannnd there it is...

[mccalli]

If by stolen you mean bought, then yes. He recognised the people and paid for it. MS copied it.

All history now of course and I actually quite like Win 10. Just the Xerox myth keeps getting trotted out without any recognition of the fact Jobs paid and brought on the actual engineers to carry on working with it. More here, amongst other places.

Re:Aaaannnd there it is...

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Windows 10 Enterprise will be 100% cheaper for up front cost

So they're giving it away now? Because that's what they'd have to do for it to be "100% cheaper". Moron.

Re:Aaaannnd there it is...

[Anonymous Coward]

The math system he used is called "arithmetic". You might want to become familiar with it before spouting off.

Re:Aaaannnd there it is...

[barc0001]

> If by stolen you mean bought, then yes. He recognised the people and paid for it.

Oh, big old citation needed for this one. Apple was known to have hired a few PARC people away from Xerox several months after Jobs visited PARC but there is to my knowledge no public mention of any compensation to Xerox whatsoever.

Re: Aaaannnd there it is...

[Anonymous Coward]

100% cheaper up front, ie $0 initial fee.
The existing volume licence deals have a buy-in fee, and then an annual subscription.

Re:Aaaannnd there it is...

[Anonymous Coward]

> If by stolen you mean bought, then yes. He recognised the people and paid for it.

Oh, big old citation needed for this one. Apple was known to have hired a few PARC people away from Xerox several months after Jobs visited PARC but there is to my knowledge no public mention of any compensation to Xerox whatsoever.

“Jobs and several Apple employees including Jef Raskin visited Xerox PARC in December 1979 to see the Xerox Alto. Xerox granted Apple engineers three days of access to the PARC facilities in return for the option to buy 100,000 shares of Apple at the pre-IPO price of $10 a share.”

http://obamapacman.com/2010/03/myth-copyright-theft-apple-stole-gui-from-xerox-parc-alto/

Re:Aaaannnd there it is...

[mccalli]

Here you go.

Re:Aaaannnd there it is...

[barc0001]

First of all, two people replied both citing a site named Obamapacman as the definitive source. Just saying.

Secondly, from your own link:

"Jobs and several Apple employees including Jef Raskin visited Xerox PARC in December 1979 to see the Xerox Alto. Xerox granted Apple engineers three days of access to the PARC facilities in return for the option to buy 100,000 shares of Apple at the pre-IPO price of $10 a share."

They were granted access for 3 days in exchange for that money. The shares paid - ahead of time - for the access, which was presumably to pick peoples' brains there for ideas. It doesn't say anything at all about compensation for actually lifting their prototyped research or licensing or anything else.

I can go pay $10,000 to attend a TED symposium, does that mean I can rip off any ideas I hear or see there scot free?

Re:Aaaannnd there it is...

[mccalli]

I'm not American so all the Obama stuff is lost on me. The site was the clearest I found - there were others too. Here's Stanford making reference to the investment. There's quite a few more.

Re:Aaaannnd there it is...

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoosh?

Re:Aaaannnd there it is...

[barc0001]

Sure, no problem. But again, all your link says is:

"Finally, as several authors have pointed out, there were actually two visits by groups from Apple to Xerox PARC in 1979. Steve Jobs was on the second of the two. Jef Raskin, who helped arranged both visits, explained that he wanted Jobs to visit PARC to understand work that was already going on at Apple. The Macintosh project had escaped the chopping block several times, and Raskin had tried to explain to Jobs the significance of the technologies it was incorporating. By showing that other companies considered this kind of work exciting, Raskin hoped to boost the value of the Macintosh's work in Jobs' eyes. Unbeknownst to Raskin, Jobs had his own reasons for visiting PARC: Xerox's venture capital arm had recently made an investment in Apple, and had agreed to show Apple what was going on in its lab."

Xerox already invested in Apple and "had agreed to show Apple what was going on in its lab". That's all. No mention of compensation for anything Apple took from PARC. Everything I said is still valid. Apple exchanged shares and in part got a chance to talk with PARC engineers as a result of that, but there was no agreement on them actually taking any of the tech and bringing it to market themselves. If they had suggested anything like that ahead of time I guarantee anyone with a brain at Xerox would have never allowed the visit.

Re:Aaaannnd there it is...

[mccalli]

although, and I'm fairly sure we'll find common ground here, 'anyone with a brain' can't have been running the commercial side of PARC at the time...

Re:Aaaannnd there it is...

[Anonymous Coward]

"Er, did I just hear you say 'Surf Ass'?"

Re:Aaaannnd there it is...

[Anonymous Coward]

They did announce you can buy license for per device use, instead of pay as a per user fee you just don't get all those extra service features.

Re:Aaaannnd there it is...

[Black LED]

math

Just the one?

It's coming......

[Squatting_Dog]

Well, I guess we can all guess what will be coming soon....... Will you be paying for your copy of Windows 10 with a check or credit card?

Re:It's coming......

[squiggleslash]

OMG?! You mean we're going to have to PAY for WINDOWS?!

Re:It's coming......

[Anonymous Coward]

Pay attention, dumbass. Windows 10 has been a free upgrade for a while now.

Re: It's coming......

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep. Every single month.

Hope the crow is tasty

[LichtSpektren]

For everyone who swore up and down that Windows 10 will never be a subscription and Microsoft will always stick with their old business model (pay once for the OS, additional support by subscription): hope the crow is tasty!

Now the question is if they'll turn the 'Home' and 'Pro' editions into subscriptions as well. It's clearly not beneath them, it's only a question if their execs determine that the hostage revenues will outweigh the massive bad will backlash they'll receive.

Re:Hope the crow is tasty

[thoromyr]

I suspect that instead of MS choosing over "pay once" vs "subscription" they will introduce it as a "cost saving alternative" to "reduce the up front cost" of maintaining your operating system. Instead of paying $200 (or whatever) for an OEM copy it will be $5/mo. Then they can insist they are simply providing more options.

To move into complete subscription mode they will transition the "legacy free support" model to "ad supported" with the option to pay a subscription fee in order to eliminate (or at least reduce) the advertising.

Re:Hope the crow is tasty

[SScorpio]

Nothing has changed. Microsoft has had this type of licensing in place for Enterprise before now. Adding a subscription to Home and Pro would be a major change. But if they threw it into O365 it would actually be a good change, just as long as they still a purchasable copy that doesn't have a recurring fee.

Re:Hope the crow is tasty

[Ol Olsoc]

For everyone who swore up and down that Windows 10 will never be a subscription and Microsoft will always stick with their old business model (pay once for the OS, additional support by subscription): hope the crow is tasty!

You gotta admit, whne the shills start trying to claim that Microsoft's subcription service really isnt a subscription service, it will be horrorshow fun.

Now the question is if they'll turn the 'Home' and 'Pro' editions into subscriptions as well. It's clearly not beneath them, it's only a question if their execs determine that the hostage revenues will outweigh the massive bad will backlash they'll receive.

It isn't a question of "if". If they are doing Surface as a service, there is no reason why everything won't be a "service' soon. So after say the 5 year lifetime of your computer, you'll have paid 420 dollars - not a bad deal eh? And we'd have to be fools to think that it won't soon rise to 10 dollars a month in short order.

What I wonder about however, is Windows 10 networks that aren't conneced to the internetz such as some I administer. Will an update have a kill switch or something, so that I'm not robbing them of their rightful money?

Regardless, looking forward to the shills tapdancing this into the best thing that ever happened to computing.

Re:Hope the crow is tasty

[QuietLagoon]

... looking forward to the shills tapdancing...

Standby... they are awaiting their instructions ... ;)

Re:Hope the crow is tasty

[Anonymous Coward]

For everyone who swore up and down that Windows 10 will never be a subscription and Microsoft will always stick with their old business model (pay once for the OS, additional support by subscription): hope the crow is tasty!

Now the question is if they'll turn the 'Home' and 'Pro' editions into subscriptions as well. It's clearly not beneath them, it's only a question if their execs determine that the hostage revenues will outweigh the massive bad will backlash they'll receive.

You're one of those fucktards that don't read the article, do you?

Re:Hope the crow is tasty

[ljw1004]

For everyone who swore up and down that Windows 10 will never be a subscription and Microsoft will always stick with their old business model (pay once for the OS, additional support by subscription): hope the crow is tasty!

What? Who would have said that? Microsoft have been offering Windows by subscription for many years already.

Re:Hope the crow is tasty

[Anonymous Coward]

Has OEM copies (The ones that come with your computer) always been that expensive? 200 dollars?! Looks like the OEM copy is at 124 canadian at some places.

But let's be real here. I don't see why Microsoft would remove the upfront cost people are already paying so don't assume it'll go away. This is the "service" cost after all. Think of it like paying full price for World of Warcraft, then paying a monthly subscription fee to actually use it.

Sure, that initial cost will probably include a year (or less) of "free" service before the monthly payments have to start, but there's absolutely NO reason to assume payment is going to be EITHER/OR. They're going to want you to make that assumption.

.

Re:Hope the crow is tasty

[Anonymous Coward]

More a question of WHEN than a question of IF....

Re:Hope the crow is tasty

[chispito]

For everyone who swore up and down that Windows 10 will never be a subscription and Microsoft will always stick with their old business model (pay once for the OS, additional support by subscription): hope the crow is tasty!

You sure get riled up easy.

This isn't new: Enterprise Agreement.

Re:Hope the crow is tasty

[squiggleslash]

Did something change? Enterprise has always been available in a subscription form. Microsoft announcing a new tier of Enterprise licensing doesn't suddenly mean that Windows is now subscription only.

Re:Hope the crow is tasty

[Anonymous Coward]

It will be $10/mo, because that is what it already costs. It's called Xbox Live, and it comes with a lot of other crap^H^H^H^H features to justify the extra cost.

Re:Hope the crow is tasty

[fermion]

To some degree MS was kind of like a rental program, at least for consumers and small business, as far as revenue was concerned.. You bought a computer, and got to run the OS on that computer for the time the computer was in use. You could pay a fee to upgrade, but you could not transfer. MS was insured a steady revenue. As computer got cheaper, the fees they could charge got smaller, and that steady revenue got smaller.

To combat this they came up with an insane number of SKUs, and sold a stripped down system with the computer, that the user could them upgrade, and still now be able to transfer it to a new machine. For some one who wants to work with the OS professionally, it does lead to a situation where it is hard to take the seriously.

Re:Hope the crow is tasty

[Anonymous Coward]

>But if they threw it into O365 ...

Right, but if you remember Office also used to be a one time purchase. See how convenient Win 10 'appears' to deliver a deal now? Look, if one pre-paves the road with small test cases (in this case subscription models of Office), and folks accept it, then offer the model to those with deep investments with MS (looking at Enterprises), then finally once all those precedence have been set... now turn on the regular folks. Now being charged a recurring fee (but bundled with omg-shiny software) seems like a deal. It all used to be buy once, use forever.

Re:Hope the crow is tasty

[Anonymous Coward]

YES "enterprise" was only available as a subscription license agreement (with minimum seat counts).. the change in allowing single seats, HOWEVER, is still the proverbial "other shoe dropping" in that you are forced to subscribe at a significant annual cost to regain at least some control over windows 10's willie-nillie updates and some of the other bullshit that is forced upon us lowly home and small business users.

let me be the millionth person to say "fuck off, microsoft".

Re:Hope the crow is tasty

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a difference with the old MOLP. If you stopped paying you got to keep what you had at that point, forever. With this, it reverts back to a 'lesser' version. ( or in a couple of years as this ramps up to encompass all 'flavors', it stops working at all. )

Re:Hope the crow is tasty

[SScorpio]

Office was, and still is available as a one time purchase. You're more than welcome to buy it outright and skip O365 if you want.

Yikes, okay

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe focus on getting the Surface in workplaces first before, y'know, promising to step on their balls.

On a 3 year cycle this is a 200% increase in price

[Anonymous Coward]

So, basically, instead of paying about a hundred bucks for a Windows license that will last a 3-year lifecycle in a business environment, they're just going to force you to borrow $100 at 74.354% interest over three years.

Tech Industry Sounding Asimov-y

[Anonymous Coward]

The way tech giants are responding to the market just makes me think of the changes in MO of US Robotics in The Positronic man.

General purpose computing? That hurts our bottom line. Enter ever more specific purpose computing, tablets, phablets, netbooks, etc.

Users still have control over their local data and processing? Enter cloud storage/clusters.

Still annoyed by users claiming they own their devices that they purchased? Enter software/hardware as a subscription model.

They all want their central owned brain that they lease out the use of to their consumers, using interfaces they control and never actually give up ownership of, that are merely dumb extensions of their central processing.

It's heeeeeeerrrrrrreeeeeeee.....

[QuietLagoon]

To all those Microsoft fanbois who said affirmatively that Microsoft was not planning a subscription model for Windows 10, please explain once again how Microsoft would never institute a subscription model for Windows 10.

Re:It's heeeeeeerrrrrrreeeeeeee.....

[Ol Olsoc]

To all those Microsoft fanbois who said affirmatively that Microsoft was not planning a subscription model for Windows 10, please explain once again how Microsoft would never institute a subscription model for Windows 10.

Simple - it will be renamed to Windows Overlord Edition. So it won't be Windows 10.

Re:It's heeeeeeerrrrrrreeeeeeee.....

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean those like Ed Bott who swore it was not going to happen. Yea, he should just stop drinking the Koolaid, along with the rest of the Microsoft fanboys.

Re:It's heeeeeeerrrrrrreeeeeeee.....

[Anonymous Coward]

I remember back in the mid-2000's when, right here on slashdot, people would say something along the lines of "they may be crooks, but at least they aren't turning their business into a spy shop like Apple and Google".

LOL, to make a giant understatement.

Re:It's heeeeeeerrrrrrreeeeeeee.....

[Anonymous Coward]

Simple - it will be renamed to Windows Overlord Edition. So it won't be Windows 10.

Marketing focus groups like Windows Megalomaniac Edition better, maybe they'll call it Windows ME for short.

Re:It's heeeeeeerrrrrrreeeeeeee.....

[93 Escort Wagon]

Simple - it will be renamed to Windows Overlord Edition. So it won't be Windows 10.

Given the past few years, I think it's more likely they'll call it Windows Sierra.

Re:It's heeeeeeerrrrrrreeeeeeee.....

[vux984]

To all those Microsoft fanbois who said affirmatively that Microsoft was not planning a subscription model for Windows 10, please explain once again how Microsoft would never institute a subscription model for Windows 10.

1) Windows Enterprise Editions via VLA have been subscription based forever. So this move in particular is much ado about nothing.

2) I don't think anybody has ever said Microsoft isn't moving towards a subscription based system. What people have said, is that the Windows 10 systems out there right now, they don't think will become subscription in the future.

IOW, that PC you upgraded to windows 10 last month... I'm skeptical it will EVER require a subscription to win10. I don't rule it out. But I don't think it's going to happen. But sure, a few years down, I fully expect windows to be SaaS on new hardware.

I also wonder if that makes desktop linux a thing -- because its one thing to have a perpetual windows license for a PC as a small line item in a $1000 purchase that isn't even broken out into lines items for most buyers.

Its quite another for buyers to sign up for $N / month. Especially, given that PCs are quite long lived now... lasting 10+ years in many homes.... 84$/year ? x 10 years? To use windows? That's going to be a non-starter for a LOT of people.

And families with a couple kids... hell I've got 5 windows PCs that are actively used in my home. I'm not going to drop $500 a year to keep that going. I won't even consider buying an xbox because im not subscribing to Xbox live.

And I say that as someone who generally likes windows 10, for the most part. (ie after killing telemetry and a few other really stupid oobe defaults).

I won't buy this. They might get me on one PC just so I've go a copy in the house. But the rest? I'll go Mac or Linux. I've already got 2 linux servers, and 2 mac laptops in the house.

Re:It's heeeeeeerrrrrrreeeeeeee.....

[Anonymous Coward]

W.O.E. is me...

Re:It's heeeeeeerrrrrrreeeeeeee.....

[nukenerd]

I don't think anybody has ever said Microsoft isn't moving towards a subscription based system.

That's funny, some people right here are saying it.

What people have said, is that the Windows 10 systems out there right now, they don't think will become subscription in the future.

Are people saying that? Many here including me are saying just the opposite. As MS have said Win10 is the last ever version of Windows, how are they to get any future income from non-enterprise Windows unless they turn those systems into subscription? MS control those Win10 installations so they can do it.

-- its one thing to have a perpetual windows license for a PC as a small line item in a $1000 purchase

It is not a small item, and you need to look hard to find a PC costing as much as £1000. Windows is a significant part of the cost of a high street PC.

Its quite another for buyers to sign up for $N / month. Especially, given that PCs are quite long lived now....... 84$/year ? x 10 years? To use windows? That's going to be a non-starter for a LOT of people.

They will have to pay the subscription like it or not - the pre-loaded Windows 10 on their new PC will only work for a month if they refuse. And don't talk about Linux - Joe Sixpack is never going to install it - can't, won't.

Re:It's heeeeeeerrrrrrreeeeeeee.....

[Anonymous Coward]

they still haven't changed. enterprise subscription has been around for decades

Re:It's heeeeeeerrrrrrreeeeeeee.....

[vux984]

And don't talk about Linux - Joe Sixpack is never going to install it - can't, won't.

But dell might, if people balk at buying PCs that require a subscription. Or chromebooks or android PCs or something along those lines...

In my opinion linux doesn't sell well because people 'want windows' and linux is 'close but not windows' but if microsoft pulls a subscription model out, people might suddenly want NOT windows... and be a lot more open to alternatives. And because they are sitting their pining for windows they're satisfaction with the alternatives will be a lot higher.

Re:It's heeeeeeerrrrrrreeeeeeee.....

[Anonymous Coward]

Mint 18

This could add up for enterprise

[Anonymous Coward]

You may think this is not a big deal $84 a year but per user is another big expense for some companies. Especially if Microsoft thinks its going to get everyone on a Surface plan. This must be their next big brain storm which Microsoft hopes will carry their revenue base. Unfortunately this could backfire if users are unwilling to pay it. I can tell if I am faced with $84 a year for Windows I can easily move onto another platform within days.

Re:This could add up for enterprise

[EvilSS]

Many companies prefer these models over buying licenses outright because in many companies CAPEX is much harder to get than OPEX, even if it costs more in the long run. Not to mention most companies already have SA or other yearly contracts so it's not really anything new.

Re:This could add up for enterprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Little companies like this as they tend to prefer less fixed cost. Larger companies, companies that tend to vertically integrate prefer fixed costs as they know how to leverage that capital more effectively. At least they used to. This everything-in-the-cloud phenomenon has tended to stupefy C-suites into forgetting this.

Re:This could add up for enterprise

[Anonymous Coward]

I've never worked for a company who didn't have a service contract which they paid to MS which included all upgrades to Windows. Honestly, from an enterprise perspective I don't actually see how this is any different then what's been done for years.

Re:This could add up for enterprise

[EvilSS]

Little companies like this as they tend to prefer less fixed cost. Larger companies, companies that tend to vertically integrate prefer fixed costs as they know how to leverage that capital more effectively. At least they used to. This everything-in-the-cloud phenomenon has tended to stupefy C-suites into forgetting this.

Big enterprises tend to be the ones who prefer this type of thing actually, and they have for a long time since those also tend to be the companies where getting CAPEX involves lots of hoop jumping and usually a few satanic ritual sacrifices if it's over a certain threshold. Small companies tend to be more concerned about actual cost. Most big companies would rather lease software, hardware, hell even people.

The Sound of the other shoe dropping...

[TheFakeTimCook]

Is is a surprise to anyone reading these words that this was going to happen?

Macroshaft has been positioning itself on all of its products to be SaaS.

Time to jump to macOS, which is the only reasonable alternative.

Maybe someday, if the Linux crybabies will stop their backbiting and petty squabbling over systemd (and other things), and get themselves together on a unified distro with a unified desktop UI, they may still have a chance.

But I honestly, seriously, doubt that will happen.

Re:The Sound of the other shoe dropping...

[kheldan]

..linux..

Haven't you been paying attention? Microsoft has been dabbling in Linux now, too. Clearly they want to own all operating systems for all devices. They're probably just consolidating their resources and forces as much as possilble before attacking Apple. Microsoft has always wanted to be a monopoly, and nothing has changed. They of course have to be stopped, broken up into smaller chunks (again), and in general smacked on the nose with a newspaper (again) and have it made clear to them that they do not own people's devices, and they will not be allowed to have a monopoly and stifle all competition. Personally I'd rather have NO computer than have any version of Windows anymore, entirely because of their behavior.

Re:The Sound of the other shoe dropping...

[Anonymous Coward]

If you honestly think that Linux users as a whole want the kind of unification and only-one-way-of-doing-things then you have missed the entire point of Linux/Unix design philosophy altogether.

Microsoft is clearly adopting Apple's playbook here and applying to the one arena that Apple has ignored. The enterprise.

Re:The Sound of the other shoe dropping...

[TheFakeTimCook]

If you honestly think that Linux users as a whole want the kind of unification and only-one-way-of-doing-things then you have missed the entire point of Linux/Unix design philosophy altogether.

Actually, I don't think that the Linux "community" wants that at all.

And that is both Linux' greatest strength, and its greatest weakness.

Lease?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wouldn't "surface as a service" in any sane world just be called leasing it?

Re:Lease?

[rochrist]

Yeah, I read the article, and wow, what a bunch of mealy mouthed techbro gobbledygook. Just say what you fucking mean for once, instead of constantly inventing new terms for everything.

Re:Lease?

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

Yeah, I read the article, and wow, what a bunch of mealy mouthed techbro gobbledygook. Just say what you fucking mean for once, instead of constantly inventing new terms for everything.

Yeah, what they meant to say is that it'll be "pre-owned", just like that clunker the used car dealer tries to sell you.

It's not leased, you just pay for it monthly!

Re:Lease?

[rochrist]

Right. Pre-owned is a good one.

not as promising as id imagined.

[nimbius]

When I first heard Surface as a Service, I envisioned a system where I could blow a whistle and from around a corner a sweat-drenched, breathless, and slightly bloated Steve Ballmer would bolt, full-tilt toward my being with a mighty "woooooooo!" and a surface in each greasy paw and a Microsoft phone the size of a prison lunch tray strapped to his hip.

Re:not as promising as id imagined.

[Howitzer86]

slightly bloated

He should get that looked at.

US GOVERNMENT SPYWARE AS A SERVICE

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice one Slashdot. Can cut and paste vs. many damage control stories today.

I PREDICTED THIS STORY YESTERDAY (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 12, 2016 @12:57PM (#52497677)

https://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9370079&cid=52494647

GOOGLE SOLD USA THE FUCK OUT (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 12, 2016 @01:36AM (#52494647)

Google is a FUCKING US Government spy shop. Why wouldn't they train Indians and buy rice paddies too fuck it. Sell American land and properties all to China then make big threats with boats. Eric Schmidt is a treasonous bitch too.

https://www.news.slashdot.org/story/16/03/06/1834211/eric-schmidt-gets-a-job-at-the-pentagon

Why is Windows 10/8.1/8/7 ALL spyware?! GEE. I don't know.
MSNBC is Microsoft National Broadcasting Company
http://www.abbreviations.com/term/374902

These situations all are a chain of events from 9/11 WTC attacks and other false flags. Watch out for race bait and gay bait in the news with more Hillary soap operas.

Are you so busy 9 to 5 that you can't think? Hillary or Trump is this a fucking mindblowing decision? Did Hillary email did she not did she have a home server did she not. Fucking A, you people are reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetarded buying their shit and using their spyware.

Re:On a 3 year cycle this is a 200% increase in pr

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps this is the simple licensing model they are selling. Simple system for simple management. After all, the target audience is the MBA crew who sells company assets and rents them back and lays off their R&D to reduce costs and buys the same work from subcontractors for double the price.

This is slashdot not reddit.

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought this was a reddit comment thread for a minute. Tons of people cracking jokes. Almost no one knowing what they are talking about.

And you wonder why AC postings are increasing...

what!

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh man, this is such bull.. wait, I run GNU+Linux so I don't give a fuuuuuck.

where's?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, ok, nice, fine, whatever, good for them.

Where the hell is the LTSB release of Win10? You know, the last hope for people who still need to run Windows but require actual-control over updates and baked-in spyware?

Haven't heard anything about the release date or further information regarding that version./

I'm okay with it being rented

[DoofusOfDeath]

I don't mind if Windows 10 Pro is rented, per se. If the PC market is slowing, it strikes me as a reasonable way to fund (and incent) continued security patches and bug-fixes. I.e., make Microsoft re-earn my business every 6-12 months. After all, I can always migrate away at my leisure before the rental agreement expires.

However, I do object to other aspects of Windows 10, that if anything I would expect to get worse under such a model:

* An EULA that gives Microsoft unfettered access to all of my data, and using it in whatever way they see fit.

* The inability to assess each proposed patch, and to choose if/when to apply it.

* The inability to prevent Windows 10 from phoning home for reasons I'm prevented from knowing.

If it were just the rental cost, the cost/benefit analysis for my wife's photography business would be easy. But the snooping, and particular the risk of uncontrollable, unpreventable, unnecessary downtime on her production computers... that risk is unacceptable even if Windows 10 were perpetually free (as in beer).

I really don't look forward to the cost of migrating her photo-editing workstation to a sufficiently powerful Mac. But we'll probably need to find a way.

Re:I'm okay with it being rented

[eric2hill]

* The inability to prevent Windows 10 from phoning home for reasons I'm prevented from knowing.

If you care, there's a great PowerShell script available that turns off everything that's known so far. We're going to include it in our deployment script on principle.

Re:I'm okay with it being rented

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't mind if Windows 10 Pro is rented, per se

what if microsoft decides that they don't want to do business with you? you're fucked

Re:I'm okay with it being rented

[Anonymous Coward]

Wouldn't you actually want to rent the Enterprise version, giving you the control of that Microsoft telemetry and an early, cumbersome version of those security features expected as a standard in the future? Microsoft doesn't seem to care for the small business (1-25) with their current products aimed at the businesses over hundreds of seats. That's the hole the competitors should fill, sooner rather than later.

Re:I'm okay with it being rented

[DoofusOfDeath]

* The inability to prevent Windows 10 from phoning home for reasons I'm prevented from knowing.

If you care, there's a great PowerShell script available that turns off everything that's known so far. We're going to include it in our deployment script on principle.

Thanks for the link. I really hope I don't end up needing to us it. I really don't have the spare cycles to engage in an arms race with our OS vendor.

Na na boo boo

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

I told you this would happen. I toldja toldja toldja.

Yeah, they'll start with Enterprise customers but mark my words, within a few years every Microsoft OS released will be a subscription model. Hang on to Win 7 and 8, because that's the last "pay once" OS you'll ever see from Redmond.

Re:Na na boo boo

[Howitzer86]

What are you expecting? That they'll upgrade everyone currently on Windows 10 to a subscription without notice? Why can't we just upgrade now and hang on to that. And assuming they would, Windows already works without registration. It'll just nag you and take over the desktop background. You're not going to have your work interrupted or kept from you unless you're hit by a Cryptolocker.

And assuming I'm wrong and they block you from your work on your currently purchased copy of Windows 10, what's to stop them from also taking over Windows 7 and 8? Their inhibition?

I mean, if you want to believe that Microsoft has evil plans, where do you draw the line? How evil do you expect them to be?

Re:Na na boo boo

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

What are you expecting?

I'm expecting them to do whatever is necessary to impose their will on everyone who runs Windows regardless of what they want. Like making the close window control opt you in to the Win 10 upgrade instead of just closing the nag window.

-

And assuming I'm wrong and they block you from your work on your currently purchased copy of Windows 10, what's to stop them from also taking over Windows 7 and 8?

I dunno...the the fact that I can turn updates off if I choose to?

-

I mean, if you want to believe that Microsoft has evil plans, where do you draw the line?

I don't want to believe that, it's the conclusion I'm forced to draw after watching their behavior for the last 20 years or so. As far as me drawing the line, that's really up to them, based on what they do.

-

How evil do you expect them to be?

As evil as they can be and still get away with it. Based on their past performance, I would expect nothing less.

Re:Na na boo boo

[Howitzer86]

Can you be sure that updates are really "off" short of unplugging your computer from the internet? I mean, this is Microsoft we're talking about, and you are clearly more cynical towards them than I.

Re:Na na boo boo

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

Can you be sure that updates are really "off" short of unplugging your computer from the internet? I mean, this is Microsoft we're talking about, and you are clearly more cynical towards them than I.

No, I can't be 100% sure, but none of us can regardless of the OS we use, right? I've mostly switched over to Linux Mint so the whole Microsoft thing isn't a big deal for me, but honestly, how do I know Mint is doing stuff in the background that I'm not aware of?

It'll be even less sure what Microsoft is doing behind your back in Windows 10....the stuff they've publicly admitted to is bad enough. God only knows what other goodies they have in store or will decide to do during their hourly stealth updates.

How about pay by hours

[Anonymous Coward]

I can turn of the PC or switch to Linux to save some money.

If Linux could ever mature...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been using Linux on and off, mostly off since my first floppy disks arrived in 1992. I remember eagerly waiting to compile a screen painting program under it. To my dismay it wouldn't compile what I thought were simple functions.

2016 and I try to install it on my desktop. Looks good. But still Linux can't handle a dam wireless adapter, but what is disappointing is the the total lack of concern that the OS is still trying to appease people who like to spend their time fudging and fixing their PCs. I use to like that but I grew up and realized that life isn't about trying to fix the same problem every week, whether the sound system doesn't work or the video, or the NIC... it was always something as the base distributions are always changing what they use. Until someone actually takes charge takes all the pieces and parts and designs them as a whole, Microsoft will always rule. Unfortunately.

By reading these comments...

[Anonymous Coward]

I could swear that this must be the year on Linux on desktops.
Quote: "they're going to pay users $7/month to use Windows 10. Not enough unfortunately, I'd maybe consider it for several hundred a month, but I'm not inflicting Win10 on anyone for a lousy $7/month"
Wow. Grow up !
When you'll get out of your mother's basement and you'll start earning your own bread, you'll no doubt start to think like this "Well, of course a software company which does exactly this - software - needs to pay salaries - or else nobody other than teens still living with their parents would work there. Therefore they have to charge for their wares, don't they" ?
Some moves by MS are debatable, but overall MS is no worse than any other company in the world. And, in many respects, they are better.
Your hatred towards MS is really predictable, unfounded, and boring.

PS. I am a MS stack developer and I earn quite a good living in the corporate environment with this. C#, ASP.NET, Web Api, etc.