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US To Auction $1.6 Million Worth of Bitcoin From Various Cases (reuters.com)

An anonymous reader shares a Reuters report: The U.S. government said on Monday it plans to auction over 2,700 bitcoin that were forfeited during several cases, including the prosecution of the creator of the online black market known as Silk Road. The U.S. Marshals Service said that the online auction would be held on Aug. 22, and that potential bidders must register by Aug. 18. The bitcoin are worth about $1.6 million, according to the Bitstamp exchange. The auction is the latest by the Marshals Service of the digital currency. It completed four prior auctions from June 2014 to November 2015 of bitcoin seized during the prosecution of Ross Ulbricht, who authorities say ran Silk Road.

67 comments

  1. Auction of bitcoin? by clodney · · Score: 2

    I suppose bitcoin is not technically currency, but it still seems kind of pointless to auction off bitcoins . Imagine if the headline were "Feds to auction off $1.6M in forfeited cash". You would expect the auction price to be very, very close to 1.6M. The arbitrage on bitcoins may be such that it comes in slightly less than 1.6M, but not much.

    1. Re:Auction of bitcoin? by 110010001000 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Um, no. Due to the fluctuation of Bitcoin and the extended settlement time of Federal auctions you wouldn't be very smart to bid over 60-70% of value.

    2. Re:Auction of bitcoin? by Luthair · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Which seems like further reason for the Feds to liquidate it themselves rather than auctioning it off. Probably some arcane part of the law I guess, or just stupid bureaucracy.

    3. Re:Auction of bitcoin? by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      They are liquidating it. All seized property is sold at auction.

    4. Re: Auction of bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is backwards, Fed doesn't have to hold their own auction -- they can just exchange it for currency at one or more exchanges online.

    5. Re: Auction of bitcoin? by 110010001000 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Which exchange do they choose? The one who will give them the best exchange rate? How would they determine who would give them the best deal? Maybe they could setup an auction. Plus maybe they could open up the auction to everyone, not just a few exchanges. They could call them "Federal Property Auctions".

    6. Re: Auction of bitcoin? by Luthair · · Score: 0

      Clearly the one with the best value, but as you pointed out they aren't going to get more than 60-70% at auction because they are adding yet another middle man.

    7. Re: Auction of bitcoin? by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      How do you determine who is going to give you the best value? You hold an auction in which everyone is free to participate. Otherwise the bitcoins will end up in some "exchange" held by some Senators brother who bought it at 30%.

    8. Re: Auction of bitcoin? by Luthair · · Score: 1

      They go to all the sites and record values. How is this any different than when the US Government sold its GM shares?

    9. Re: Auction of bitcoin? by alexander_686 · · Score: 1

      I would like to extend on this - The Justice Department does have rules around this. When stocks (Google, MSFT, etc.) are sized they are sold on a exchange that meets minimum liquidity and transparency. Liquidity should be obvious - you don't want to crush the market by dumping a big block all at once. Transparency because you don't want a inside cartel depressing prices.

    10. Re: Auction of bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But what if you miss an individual who is willing to pay a little more for what you have?

      The point of having the auction is that any interested party can participate, not just those sampled. The reason the government uses auctions to sell unwanted property is because they get the most return. It works very well.

      Stop trying to make it sound like auctions are stealing away from us, when they're doing the exact opposite.

    11. Re:Auction of bitcoin? by prograsm · · Score: 2

      Having purchased government surplus vehicles at auction, this is something any potential bidders would be wise to take note of. It can take 6 months for the government to deliver, despite collecting money immediately.

    12. Re: Auction of bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Auctions are for tangible things that are difficult to liquidate. The entire point of Bitcoin is that they are easy to liquidate -- there are numerous exchanges online that will convert your Bitcoin to cash, it is stupid for Fed Gov to setup it's own exchange in the form of a one time auction.

    13. Re: Auction of bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly the one with the best value

      So obviously Bitfinex since they aren't wasting money on deposit insurance or excessive security, right?

    14. Re:Auction of bitcoin? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      They are liquidating it. All seized property is sold at auction.

      Currency is not.

      Also.... how do they handle small amounts of stocks and bonds?

      There's no need to hold your own auction, when the item is a commodity, and there are large public exchanges.

      If they go through the expense and wasted time of holding their own auction, 'stead of hiring a good broker to liquidate it on
      the open market, then they're just stupid; they'll wind up getting less than market value for their goods......

    15. Re: Auction of bitcoin? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Which exchange do they choose? The one who will give them the best exchange rate?

      Absolutely. They will likely get a much better selling price Than if they held their own auction though. Their auction will be highly-inefficient..... Also, it's a PITA to qualify to bid in their auctions, if I recall, and settle the transaction Versus the interested Buyer just going to an exchange --- the only reason for a buyer to go through all the hassle involved in bidding on their auctions is to get a substantial discount Versus the major exchanges.

    16. Re: Auction of bitcoin? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      But what if you miss an individual who is willing to pay a little more for what you have?

      They're not going to pay a little more than $X US, for a liquid asset if the same number of coins can be purchased on
      a public exchange for $X US. There will have to be a discount to entice them to even participate in your
      private little auction event which will have onerous requirements and hoops for the buyer to jump through
      Versus other Bitcoin transactions.

    17. Re: Auction of bitcoin? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      So obviously Bitfinex since they aren't wasting money on deposit insurance or excessive security, right?

      They should do the deal with price determined by price of ALL well-known Exchanges and execute the transaction on whichever exchange
      they can make the fastest execution on And ensure an arrangement with to execute the transaction which
      provides them the cash before depositing their BTC to the exchange itself.

      In other words, the Gov't need not rely on their insurance, because the Government will be receiving the cash before or at the same time as presenting the BTC for settlement.

    18. Re: Auction of bitcoin? by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Auctions are for tangible things that are difficult to liquidate.

      Auctions are for whatever the fuck they choose to auction off. FTFY.

    19. Re:Auction of bitcoin? by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

      Cash is seized all the time and never sold at auction.

      Bitcoin is not money. Bitcoin is a commodity.

      It happens that it is intended to act as much like a commodity based currency as possible under the current laws and the available technology. But that doesn't make it money, under either the general laws about money or the specific laws about how to dispose of a seized non-money asset.

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    20. Re:Auction of bitcoin? by dcollins117 · · Score: 1

      All seized property is sold at auction.

      Really? They sell drugs at auction? That's awesome! I could use a good deal on heroin. I don't have any use for kiddie porn, but it's interesting to hear they sell it at auction. Assault weapons, I'm on the fence. I don't have an immediate need for one, but if I can get a bargain at one of these auctions, it might come in handy some day...

    21. Re: Auction of bitcoin? by EETech1 · · Score: 1

      They should be giving them to all the exchanges that got hacked, so they can refund their customers!

    22. Re: Auction of bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's another variable to optimize for besides best value, and you're expecting the exchange to offer the same price but with special treatment.

      If the government requires different terms than simply logging on and using the exchange normally, and all potential buyers must adhere to the same terms, then they might as well run an auction.

    23. Re:Auction of bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's an assault weapon, exactly?

  2. Who would buy? by scorp1us · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This transfer would kill any pseudo-anonymity in the blockchain. Coins assigned to feds, Feds assigned to you, then can come back and lean on you to account for who you transferred coins to... Opening the question, does a bitcoin's market value depend on who owned it previously?

    --
    Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
    1. Re:Who would buy? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Coin Washing service would quickly dissolve any link to you. Which is exactly what I would do. Once the Coins are disassociated with any person, they are useless.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    2. Re:Who would buy? by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 3, Funny

      with a free trip to a FPITA prison

    3. Re: Who would buy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "...Opening the question, does a bitcoin's market value depend on who owned it previously?..."

      I think we are about to find out. It is an eventuality that every Bitcoin in existence will have a nefarious (or popular) history associated with it. For example: a Bitcoin that was used for payment to assassinate a public figure, or a Bitcoin used by a celebrity to purchase a hamburger --- those coins may fetch a premium to a collector.

      Assuming that Bitcoin doesn't die off, of course.

      Don't know why "the Fed", isn't just immediately turning the coins into cash at an exchange.

    4. Re:Who would buy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Club Fed ;-)

    5. Re:Who would buy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You're wrong. Setup another receiving address on a proxy IP of some sort and transfer it back to yourself. It's not hard.

    6. Re: Who would buy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The same thing could be said about regular currency. Should I be responsible for receiving a dollar that, at some time in the past, may have been used illegally by someone?

    7. Re:Who would buy? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This doesn't make any sense whatsover. The federal government can "buy" and "sell" BTC under aliases and do the same thing, Complete anonymity is one of the things that people desire in a cryptocurrency but it is not essential. Second there is more to anonymity then prevent government agencies from tracking you down, Some folks just like privacy and find Facebook and Google and others intrusive. Bitcoin pseudo-anonymity works quite well under those circumstances.

      The lock on my front door does a good job keeping knuckleheads away but if the US Government wanted to break into my apartment it would be useless to prevent them. That being the case should I stop locking my door when I leave the apartment because it isn't useful against the government actors?

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    8. Re: Who would buy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Dollars are anonymous, Bitcoin has a history tired directly to it (block chain). Though, if you have very good history and documentation of a particular dollar bill that Elvis Presley used to purchase a hamburger with (ie: a picture of him holding said dollar with visible serial numbers), that'd be collectible too.

      With Bitcoin, that history is automatic and permanent.

    9. Re:Who would buy? by golgotha007 · · Score: 1

      IP address? What does that have to do with it?

      It would be simple to follow the transfers as the coins move through the blockchain.

    10. Re:Who would buy? by Lost+Race · · Score: 1

      How is "coin washing" not "money laundering"?

  3. Not sure what to make of this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    So I will reply with a haiku.

    Federal Auction?
    Or gigantic honeypot?
    Caveat Emptor.

  4. Just one question by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1
    Will they take bitcoin or other eCoins for payment? A little arbitrage here and there for the masses who don't have servers sitting in the stock exchange's basements ...

    Help them (the government) ease into handling e-currencies for profit.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  5. WooHoo!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    new toys for teh U.S. Marshals Service !!

  6. 1.6 Million by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    1.6 Million worth of bitcoins? Hardly.

    They will be auctioned and nobody with half a brain will pay anything close to current market value for them, and if the auction sells them for dirt cheap, that will bring the value of bitcoin tumbling down, further defeating the purpose of even participating in the auction.

    And even if you win the auction, no exchange is mad enough to give you that kind of money right away (chances are, they don't even have that kind of money in hand). You are going to have to sit on your 'coins for a while. I suppose you COULD stress test the bitcoin network by suddenly placing 1.6 million individual orders for t-shirts or crappy trinkets or whatever it is people are accepting bitcoins for. But that might be the tungsten rod that finally breaks the camel's back, so to speak.

    So, tl;dr, from a bitcoin economy point of view, this is a lose-lose situation.

    1. Re:1.6 Million by GLMDesigns · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sorry but you're not making any sense. There are almost 1,000,000 transaction every 10 minutes.

      Bitcoin's market value is approximately 10 billion dollars. This is not going to affect the price much. And "destroying" the coin won't make bitcoin any less valuable. Just as destroying gold doesn't make the remaining gold left valuable.

      Can government stop bitcoin? Yes. By imprisoning and killing people who use it. Outside of that - it will be very difficult (if not impossible).

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    2. Re:1.6 Million by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      I beg to differ. There are trillions of pounds sterling, but look how quickly it tanked after brexit. Sentiment, not hard facts, determines value in today's markets. That's the problem with fiat currencies, and it looks unsolvable (plus there are extreme disincentives to solving it).

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    3. Re:1.6 Million by pr0fessor · · Score: 1

      I've not noticed anywhere I've shopped on-line that excepts bitcion. Any idea who does?

    4. Re:1.6 Million by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      Tons of places.Expedia, NewEgg, Overstock.

      See: http://spendbitcoins.com/place...

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    5. Re:1.6 Million by pr0fessor · · Score: 1

      I've shopped at newegg but not recently.

    6. Re:1.6 Million by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty much everything you said is wrong.

    7. Re:1.6 Million by golgotha007 · · Score: 1

      Cool story bro.

  7. Re:Delete them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    *grunt* *smash* I no understand. Must smash. *urg*

  8. Re:Delete them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hey faggot AC, how many ransomware news stories where they demand payment in bitcoins do you have to read before you get it through your thick, two-digit IQ head that cryptocurrency is only really being used by criminals to commit criminal acts? Destroy ALL OF IT and make it illegal. Or are you criminal scum?

  9. Re:Delete them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I enjoy being a criminal. What is it to you?

  10. Will they ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Will they accept Bitcoins?

  11. Coin lockout by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why can't we choose to not accept any bitcoin that has been seized? Why hasn't this been automated yet?

  12. Re:Delete them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    hurr durr I IS A CRIMINAL

    No you're a bored 12 year old on summer break jacking off on the Internets. What's the matter get banned from 4chan for being an extreme faggot? Kill yourself, it's the most criminal thing you can do.

  13. When do they auction off the drugs? by Bob_Who · · Score: 1

    Oh yeah, I forgot, they "destroy" the drugs so nobody takes them. It would be wrong to auction them off and keep the proceeds. Then they would be dealers. Its much better that we take their word for it when they take away all of the stuff that belongs to bad guys and sell it, except for the drugs which we never see again because they don't sell it at a public auction. You can be sure if you never see it again that it was destroyed since you can always believe the good guys. Why would they lie? Only bad guys lie. They lie about all of the stuff they have because they are criminals, and that's why the good guys just take it away from them and always tell the truth. It's really great how America is so good at winning wars on drugs and crime and terrorists and poverty and human trafficking and bitcoins with coke residue on them. And its really nice of them to destroy all of the evidence before it escapes and sells itself to the next idiot they bust for dealing. Thank goodness they have put an end to crime and addiction in America. Finally we are great again. We figured out how to make crime pay the good guys: we just take it from criminals after they earn it breaking the law. That's a perfect solution, no wonder we have such great results.

    1. Re:When do they auction off the drugs? by guruevi · · Score: 1

      They don't destroy it, they use it to bait other people.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    2. Re: When do they auction off the drugs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The drugs seized by the Feds are tainted, too risky to sell as anything but processable goods, and even then, I am doubtful they could get value for them.

  14. It's pretty mind-blowing by nightfire-unique · · Score: 1

    .. that state actors can seize property for their own gain.

    Really think about it for a second.

    Quite frankly anything seized and not returned should be destroyed (in the case of currency) or donated to a registered charity with a small fee assessed to the seizing department (which should also be destroyed).

    --
    A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
    1. Re:It's pretty mind-blowing by arth1 · · Score: 1

      .. that state actors can seize property for their own gain.

      Really think about it for a second.

      Quite frankly anything seized and not returned should be destroyed (in the case of currency) or donated to a registered charity with a small fee assessed to the seizing department (which should also be destroyed).

      No, it should continue to be the property of whoever holds legal ownership. If someone doesn't own something legally, it should revert to the previous owner.
      Forfeiture laws are inherently abusive, and exist because of a society that's built on the "values" of government greed and punitive justice.

    2. Re:It's pretty mind-blowing by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Reportedly, in the case of the Silk Road bitcoins, the Feds asked around for who owned them. Since the owner(s) would be tied to criminal activity, nobody came forward. What should the FBI have done?

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  15. Re:Delete them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I actually agree with this. It's an incredible waste of resources to drive what is effectively a massive ponzi scheme.

  16. Do I get a receipt? by X86BSD · · Score: 0

    If not why the hell would you do this just to have them turn around and tell you they are seizing these bitcoins until you can prove they came from a legit source?

  17. If you or I did this, it would be laundering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lets take them to court.

  18. Come to my auction by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

    I'm auctioning off $100 bills, starting at $110 each. Get 'em before they're gone!

    One of them is a very rare misprint- it has both the back AND the front printed upside down. I'm asking $200 for that one.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  19. Inspection of property? by n7ytd · · Score: 1

    I wonder if potential bidders will be allowed to inspect these coins for validity? Would suck to buy $1.6m of Bitcoin to find out they are worthless/already spent.
    This would be like buying a box of confiscated iTunes gift cards; which of them have been used or had the PINs copied off before being put in the box?

  20. Re:Delete them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So I take it you're underwater and hoping the publicized drop in supply will drive prices high enough to put you back in the black?

  21. each block requires 100k registration to bid by anniversary · · Score: 2