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Fedora 25 To Run Wayland By Default Instead Of X.Org Server (phoronix.com)
An anonymous reader writes: Fedora 25 will finally be the first release for this Linux distribution -- and the first tier-one desktop Linux OS at large -- that is going ahead and using Wayland by default. Wayland has been talked about for years as a replacement to the xorg-server and finally with the upcoming Fedora 25 release this is expected to become a reality. The X.Org Server will still be present on Fedora systems for those running into driver problems or other common issues.
Fedora's steering committee agreed to the change provided the release notes "are clear about how to switch back to X11 if needed." In addition, according to the Fedora Project's wiki, "The code will automatically fall back to Xorg in cases where Wayland is unavailable (like NVIDIA)."
Fedora's steering committee agreed to the change provided the release notes "are clear about how to switch back to X11 if needed." In addition, according to the Fedora Project's wiki, "The code will automatically fall back to Xorg in cases where Wayland is unavailable (like NVIDIA)."
If there are "common issues", it shouldn't be a default, no matter what it is.
This literally damages the reputation of FOSS as a whole - recklessly making "common issues" more common.
Cue negative Wayland comments by those who have not read, or do not understand the X.org code. Who do we hope will maintain the codebase? There's what, four men still alive, who can do the job?
227-3517
I'm fine with Wayland...
As long as it still runs all my wonderful diverse choices of Unix desktop environments.
I use the desktop for work, since April 2011 Linux desktops have promoted Eye Candy above Functionality. I am not just moaning about Fedora here, these are generalized complaints. Will I be able to switch instantly between windows/desktops ? probably not, there will be some lag due to the necessities of Eye Candy. Will I have a visual indicator of which documents I have open, nope, I will have to rely on subtle clues hidden at the edge of the monitor to hunt for them. Will I be able to quickly and easily navigate/tab down to some little used graphics program, nope I will to use a graphic menu clicking all over the place and making sense of the whole screen or even worse have to google for the name and type it in.
We are SOOOOOO close to being Windows. So close....
What exactly is the problem with the proprietary NVIDIA drivers? They don't support Wayland at all? Or do they just not work?
I like what I've seen from Wayland so far, but I can't run it until the Cinnamon desktop environment (can't stand the GNOME Shell paradigm) and the Nvidia drivers (nouveau crashes hard on my machine when I run two displays under Cinnamon) are updated to support it.
I think there would be more negative comments on why Wayland and Mir both need to exist, than Wayland and X.org
Does Wayland, at this stage, provide the same level of functionality that Xorg does? Does everything just work or do all the applications need to be re-achitected to work properly. If I can't ssh -X me@remote WhateverFuckingApp& then I am not even remotely interested in hearing about Wayland, let alone trying it.
After 17 years of daily use, the Linux desktop has come way too for for me to tolerate a major step back or reduction on feature set with the mere promise of improvement in coming months(years), again. KDE4, Gnome3, and Unity were the absolute-last-straws for that scenario.
From now on, new stuff has to be a major improvement in quality, features, functionality, without sacrifice for me to tolerate the interruption in my workflow and the relearning, for the n-teenth time, of basic desktop operation. If the application or feature doesn't make me say; 'Oh wow, I really want that!', then it can FOAD
The days of change for the sake of change, or change for the sake of a programmer's fantasy of technical superiority are over. I expect the Linux desktop to work and to get out of my way so that I can work or play.
Huh, not being a gamer, back in the day I always had ATI (now AMD for the young kids) cards on the linux machines I would set up (home and office) because they caused less problems for my usage (sometimes multi-monitor Xinerama, often TV-out) and could hear people praising how much better NVIDIA supposedly was in linux drivers, fast forward to this day I still hear the same things about AMD vs NVIDIA and yet AMD seems to have relatively decent open source drivers that can even play games and Wayland support and NVIDIA has none of that. And yet they are still better? What gives?
Hmm I'm using Fedora on my server/home theater PC and work/home notebook and I've tried Wayland but it had some limitations. When the mouse pointer changes from arrow to a caret (for example) the mouse motion seems to slow down. Recently I've discoved xdotool and obviously it doesn't work with Wayland. Let's hope X11 will be supported for awhile until this things are fixed.
Ssh -x for all single applications must work. As long as it does, I don't care if the graphics framework was satan itself.
Apparently the same place where they find the people who fail 6th grade reading. When you leave off part of the sentence, there's a good chance it might not make sense.
If you finish reading the sentence it will make more sense. You should have learned that before 7th grade.
The end of a sentence is indicated by a full stop. You look like an idiot when you only
God, every news about Wayland is worst then systemd news. Sounds like all Slashdot readers are using remote desktop over X and this will be the reality for all the users in the world in the desktop/mobile.
A little round dot, ASCII 0x2e, is a period. You sound like a child when you call it a "full stop".
They're the same thing, nitwit.
A little round dot, ASCII 0x2e, is a period. You sound like a child when you call it a "full stop".
It is only called that in American English. In most other variants of English it is correct to call this punctuation mark a "full stop". When you criticise other people for "mistakes" that are actually well-known linguistic differences you sound like a stereotypically ignorant American.
Gnome 3 (pffft!) user here. I've been using Wayland by default with it for almost a year one... with zero issues. And i do mean zero. It runs better and using less resources than X.org ever did.
You might whine about Fedora all you want, but the switch makes a lot of sense for non-remote *nix desktop users. Which i'd venture to say it's pretty much all of their user base nowadays.
Are you implying Wayland is the systemd of display servers?
That's how I'm reading your critique.
A little round dot, ASCII 0x2e, is a period. You sound like a child when you call it a "full stop".
The little round dot is called a "full stop" in all english speaking countries of the world except for the united states. It has a single defined meaning of "ceasing" which is how it works grammatically when applied to a sentence.
A period is both a time frame in, and a biological process during which you better not piss off your wife.
Not knowing the defined difference between American English and British English and then calling someone childish because of it says more about you than words ever could.
Originally intended as a window manager emulating the NeXT Desktop back in the 90s. I have been using it since linux 1.2/1.3 era. The only thing it is lacking is a desktop file manager, and if you have one you'd like to use that isn't too integrated into a desktop environment (say thunar or spacefm) it works fine as a modern fullfledged desktop. The *ONLY* annoying thing for people new to it is some of the default hotkeys (dating to the 90s) overlap with common hotkeys brought over in applications from Windows. If you don't mind remapping those, or using the gui equivalent (where possible), it isn't a big deal. Speedwise it is one of the fastest window managers you can use. It has a menu format that can support either links to the freedesktop style entry links, or its own legacy format, as well as custom scripted link lists where applicable. It also supports multimonitor, xinerama, and virtual desktops spanning or linked between each. Some of these can result in quirky behavior if you change your desktop layout (IE default window positions can end up off the screen in order to save your default window positions for a certain screen configuration.) But other than usually minor issues like that (which you may be thankful for if you carefully organize your desktop and expect it to reproduce each time you login, even if your display settings are messed up due to a video card or screen geometry change that is temporary.)
Anyway, give it a try and see if it works for you. It's quite a different paradigm than most of the other WMs around today, but I have found it fast, effective to work with, and almost guaranteed available on any Linux distro dating back to the 90s (there are exceptions, but not many, and its prereqs are minimal enough to build it on almost any system in under a half hour, even something as old as a pentium!)
Wayland is attractive to its developers because it explicitly implements a much reduced feature set compared to X11. Quite a few of the X11 features are historic and not of interest to very many modern users, but then again there are some features that are useful and Wayland doesn't offer a replacement for them.
X11 includes a rendering API for 2d graphics, and through extensions, for a variety of compositing and other more "modern" operations. Wayland provides no rendering API at all. Wayland is just a graphics compositing server with input support. It's a small fraction of what X is. It gives you a buffer to write your pixels into and you have to bring a rendering implementation to the party yourself.
This means that applications have even less coherency than they had with X11; X programs have a fundamental set of behaviors that are all the same due to using a single rendering framework. The degree to which this will matter in practice, given how poorly X programs adhere to any kind of common UI paradigm anyway, remains to be seen.
Apparently there's this thing called Mir that Ubuntu is developing that is a competitor to Wayland for the X replacement (where neither is actually a replacement, offering significantly less functionality in both cases). I guess that Ubuntu rejected Wayland and decided to roll their own. I would bet a fair sum that Fedora is pushing Wayland in this way to try to prevent Ubuntu from gathering its own momentum with Mir. I doubt they're pushing it for any reason that benefits end users. It's purely political as a means to prevent a competitor's favored X replacement from gaining support.
I have been an X user for about 26 years now and I have zero problems with it and would rather not see a replacement take over, especially one that is likely to be a step sideways/backwards from an end user perspective ala systemd. But given that Wayland by itself is not nearly as useful as X by itself, I expect that operating systems will use Wayland, at least for a while, as a layer underneath the X server. X will remain, it will just allow Wayland to own its frame buffer instead of owning it itself. And in the end, the functionality I require from X will remain because the X server will remain.
You need to go get some "petrol", visit the "chemist", check under the "bonnet", and make sure the spare tire under the "boot" has air. I'll be getting some gas, going to the drugstore, checking under the hood, and making sure there is air in the spare tire under the trunk, like any normal guy. And remember, there is no "a" in "clerk". Any other grotesque expressions and pronunciations I should know?
There's really only one thing you should know, there are close to 900M British English speakers in the world and 600M American English speakers. So when you insult someone based on not using American English all that happens is you look like a little bit of a cunt.
But then based on our past conversations that was already evident.
But, but... being American is "normal," according to fnj!
You forgot to stick a poundtag to the end of that last post.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Any other grotesque expressions and pronunciations I should know?
Yes:
Solder does not rhyme with "fodder", Internet is not pronounced "ennernat", and Arkansas, well, you can keep that one.
Also "fanny" doesn't mean what you think it does.
You're the gits who got everyone saying "kill-AH-mi-ter" when "KEEL-oh-MEE-ter" would be much more logical and consistent with other SI unit pronunciations.
Or are you saying "cen-TIM-mi-ter" now? :-P