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23 Years Later: the Apple II Receives Another OS Update (arstechnica.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the pure-love dept.

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: Yesterday, software developer John Brooks released what is clearly a work of pure love: the first update to an operating system for the Apple II computer family since 1993. ProDOS 2.4, released on the 30th anniversary of the introduction of the Apple II GS, brings the enhanced operating system to even older Apple II systems, including the original Apple ][ and ][+. Which is pretty remarkable, considering the Apple ][ and ][+ don't even support lower-case characters. You can test-drive ProDOS 2.4 in a Web-based emulator set up by computer historian Jason Scott on the Internet Archive. The release includes Bitsy Bye, a menu-driven program launcher that allows for navigation through files on multiple floppy (or hacked USB) drives. Bitsy Bye is an example of highly efficient code: it runs in less than 1 kilobyte of RAM. There's also a boot utility that is under 400 bytes -- taking up a single block of storage on a disk. The report adds: "In addition to the Bitsy Boot boot utility, the ProDOS 2.4 'floppy' includes a collection of utilities, including a MiniBas tiny BASIC interpreter, disk imaging programs to move files from physical floppies to USB and other disk storage, file utilities, and the 'Unshrink' expander for uncompressing files archived with Shrinkit."

81 comments

  1. Control by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

    OpenApple - Reset

    1. Re:Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      10 PRINT "HOME"
      20 PRINT "SWEET"
      30 GOTO 10
      RUN

    2. Re:Control by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 2

      Well it's getting more frequent updates than my Android phone is...

  2. Systemd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Unless it includes systemd I am not upgrading

    1. Re:Systemd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless systemd includes ProDOS 2.4, you mean.

  3. Did the update also include ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    ...pornographic and Nazi imagery?

    1. Re: Did the update also include ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      Do your parents know that you're an idiot?

  4. Still better. . . by smooth+wombat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    than Windows 10.

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    1. Re:Still better. . . by quenda · · Score: 4, Funny

      Only 280×192 pixels and 64k RAM, but at least it has a headphone socket.

    2. Re:Still better. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but at least it has a headphone socket.

      Just the IIGS and //c.
      At best the II, IIplus and //e have the cassette port which is the same thing as the speaker but with a phono jack soldered in, but you still needed to have software direct sound there. Music Construction Set and a few games could.

  5. I had Prodos on My Apple][e in 1983-84 by La+Gris · · Score: 3, Insightful

    > is pretty remarkable, considering the Apple ][ and ][+ don't even support lower-case characters.

    Wrong, there was a Prodos for the Apple][

    > Apple ][ and ][+ don't even support lower-case characters

    There was a program that piggy-backed the char display and used graphic mod to display lowercase characters, even supported accentss. Had bee used by word-processors back then. AppleWord and the Jane environment.

    And Yes I affirm, there was a Prodos for the Apple][ back then.

    --
    Léa Gris
    1. Re:I had Prodos on My Apple][e in 1983-84 by caseih · · Score: 3, Informative

      Correct, there was ProDOS on Apple II. I remember using it. However according to the author himself, it was ProDOS 1.0. ProDOS 2.x apparently did not run on the Apple II. He says: "ProDOS 2.4 includes both the 6502 compatibility of ProDOS 1.x and the slot remapping functionality of ProDOS 2.x. Now Apple II programs can use a single version of ProDOS to boot any Apple II and access all storage volumes. ... For the first time, the features and improvements of ProDOS 2.x are available on 6502-based Apple ][, Apple ][+, and un-enhanced Apple //e computers."

    2. Re:I had Prodos on My Apple][e in 1983-84 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are right - I used ProDOS on an Apple ][+, and you could have lowercase through software or a hardware modification.

    3. Re:I had Prodos on My Apple][e in 1983-84 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      ur old lol

    4. Re:I had Prodos on My Apple][e in 1983-84 by Hylandr · · Score: 1

      How about the 6502c?

      [/troll] :)

      --
      ~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
    5. Re:I had Prodos on My Apple][e in 1983-84 by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      You had to physically solder the motherboard to get lower-case on the Apple ][+. I remember my dad doing it, and it only worked in AppleWord if I recall.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    6. Re:I had Prodos on My Apple][e in 1983-84 by dryeo · · Score: 2

      I ran ProDOS 2.x on my Apple II, it helped that it had a Transwarp card which had a 65C02 and 256 KBs of memory laid out the same as a //E. I probably had to patch ProDOS as well.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    7. Re:I had Prodos on My Apple][e in 1983-84 by La+Gris · · Score: 1

      There were at least two versions of the LC ROM and there was multiple revisions of the Apple][ Motherboards. Some had a socketed dip chip.
      If you used the wrong LC ROM, you got garbled font display as the data alignment/interleave was wrong. One version of the ROM required piggy-backing a line to the IC so it could address the char values range for lowercase.

      About the graphical text environment that allowed you, lowercase text and mixed text and graphic. It was brought by a software suit named like Mibbit.

      --
      Léa Gris
  6. Bah....! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    When the Amiga came out it was cheaper and far superior. Apple was still selling this thing @ US $1500 in 1993 (mostly to schools). Fuck, you could have bought a 486 with VGA and a GUS for under $1000. RIP Commodore.

    1. Re: Bah....! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A computer that came out 6 years after another one was more powerful?? I'm shocked!

    2. Re: Bah....! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The point is, Apple still sold the same Apple II-whatever until 1993, for the same price as the day it was released with no change is specs, at all. So yeah, comparing Commodore to Apple is justified.

    3. Re:Bah....! by ZorinLynx · · Score: 4, Informative

      I recall that when Apple decided stop selling the Apple IIe, school districts were genuinely upset because they were still using them heavily. They had very large educational software libraries that would now become obsolete as they could no longer buy replacement systems.

      If the market is there and willing to pay, Apple would have been foolish to not serve it. They could have probably continued selling IIe systems well into 1995 if they wanted. It's pretty crazy just how entrenched the Apple II was in schools.

    4. Re: Bah....! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      A computer that came out 6 years after another one was more powerful?? I'm shocked!

      I think the OP meant the price was more expensive for the older Apple computer at the time than was a newer Commodore Amiga. Personal computers had more personality back in the day (early to mid 1980s). I fondly remember developing some fairly sophisticated utilities for my Commodore VIC-20 using 6502 assembly language after typing in the listing for TinyMon and later buying the VIC-20 Assembler cartridge.

    5. Re:Bah....! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Apple made an add-in card for Macintosh LCs (Popular in education) that let it run apple II software, and was designed to be IIe compatable. It was pretty popular and apple made a LOT of them - So many that I remember about a decade ago someone was selling off a warehouse of them for about 20 bucks each. (Should have picked one up. Now they go for 200)

      Pretty clever bit of kit too. It had an interface for the older drives, and could use/create disk images as needed. (You could copy your entire library and run it off the mac hard disk) Some hardware was on the card, the rest was implemented in software. Ran great. Even emulated the color artifacts in the display hardware a lot of software relied upon to work properly.

    6. Re:Bah....! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was a youngster living in a third world country back then. I had just saved a years wages to buy my own personal computer and was about to take the plunge for an Apple II when out of nowhere came the Mac and Apple pretty much discontinued all support for Apple IIs.

      It was just all a matter of chance, had I bought my computer a few weeks earlier I would have been left hanging. It was the first time I realized Apple might not be such a user friendly computer company after all. Many similar unfriendly moves since them have me convinced of this. Dropping the headphone jack is their latest move in a "screw-the-user" philosophy imbued by Jobs into the company. He felt compelled to test the loyalty of the user time and time again.

      Me, I just moved to an IBM PC and then on to Unix/Linux and never looked back.

    7. Re:Bah....! by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      The Apple //gs was compatible with the //e. In fact, it was widely known that the //gs has a single chip in it that did everything the //e did.
      Many schools received their apple // computers by apple donating them. Shame on the schools for not expecting the corporation to want the schools to BUY upgraded computers.

    8. Re:Bah....! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hehe. In a documentary I watched, there was an account perhaps from a former North Korean official about how Kim Il Sung got very pissed off, after China went capitalist in the 80s. Like, " You gave us these jet fighters for free, and now you want us to pay for the refurbishing! Aren't we brothers?"

    9. Re: Bah....! by Shirley+Marquez · · Score: 2

      And people still bought them, so Apple kept making them. Just like they kept making the iPod Classic (the last model with a hard drive) for many years with no changes, until they had to stop because the manufacturers of the miniature hard drives stopped making them.

    10. Re:Bah....! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I think you're missing the point. One of the big reasons for the Apple ]['s popularity with schools were the I/O slots and joystick port - of which the Macs had neither. Schools were regularly building their own I/O cards or just using the four digital and four analog inputs on the joystick port for all sorts of interfacing experiments and programming lessons, getting students into things from computer-controlled rubber band launchers to environment monitoring to robotics.

  7. Apple was always limited and useless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    N/T

  8. Damn this is inconvenient by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    My dual floppy drive Apple II plus with 128K RAM drive (172K total) uses floppies that, um, melted.

    Going to be hard to update that.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:Damn this is inconvenient by wierd_w · · Score: 1

      You can buy replacement blank diskettes still. (The US government has legacy systems that need them, assuring that the ancient tech will persist forever.)

    2. Re:Damn this is inconvenient by wierd_w · · Score: 2

      Even eligible for amazon prime shipping!

      https://www.amazon.com/Double-...

      You may need a floppy drive to write to them on a modern system though.

    3. Re:Damn this is inconvenient by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      Even eligible for amazon prime shipping!

      https://www.amazon.com/Double-...

      You may need a floppy drive to write to them on a modern system though.

      No, I have tons of those, can even tune them

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    4. Re:Damn this is inconvenient by wierd_w · · Score: 1

      I forget.. Did the apple II use 5.25" floppies, or 3.5" floppies?

      I remember seeing both...

      That said, here's some 360k 5.25" disks.

      https://www.amazon.com/5-25-fl...

    5. Re:Damn this is inconvenient by laird · · Score: 1

      Apple II used 5.25" floppies. Mac is what forced 3.5" disks into the market.

      --
      Enable 3D printed prosthetics!
    6. Re:Damn this is inconvenient by wierd_w · · Score: 1

      Wikipedia is my friend.

      They DID make an 800k 3.5" drive for the apple II, but it was not popular, as it needed many expensive upgrades to work.

      Those 360k 5.25" disks should work, but to use the other side you will have to cut a notch.

    7. Re: Damn this is inconvenient by Hawks · · Score: 2

      Actually the Apple IIe supported both 5.25" and 3.5" floppies under ProDOS. There was another drive controller card that worked in slot 7 iirc.

      I ran many a program and wrote all of my college papers using AppleWorks on my tricked out IIe.

      80 column card, heh, I had a 1M memory card. I had to put individual memory chips into it. Toss in the 5.25" controller, 3.5" controller, 2 slot AppleCat 9600b modem, parallel card for my Apple Color dot matrix printer and the 8Mhz Zip Chip and I had the most tricked out IIe I knew of at NMSU in1992. Now get off my lawn.

      --
      in anima Apparatus
    8. Re:Damn this is inconvenient by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      Initially 5.25" floppies.

      DOS 3.3 and ProDOS disk were soft sectored 16 sector @ 35 tracks for 140 KB.

      But a lot of games used Roland Gustafsson's 18 sector/track RWTS for 157.5 KB.

    9. Re:Damn this is inconvenient by Hylandr · · Score: 1

      Ah the Glory days. :)

      I remember lovingly cutting those notches in brand new floppies. :)

      --
      ~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
    10. Re:Damn this is inconvenient by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Eventually I got good at knowing where to use a single hole punch to make the notch.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    11. Re:Damn this is inconvenient by WheezyJoe · · Score: 2

      800K 3.5" drives worked fine with the Apple //c later //e's... it was called the UniDisk 3.5, and compared to a 140K 5.25" floppy it was practically a hard drive (well, a Zip Disk, if you remember those things). The //c+ had an 800K disk built-in.
      The UniDisk was a little-bit smart, had it's own processor if I recall, which allowed it to be plug-n-play with the // line. External 800K disks for Macs, in contrast, wouldn't work on the //'s (except for the //gs).

      --
      Take it easy, Charlie, I've got an Angle...
    12. Re:Damn this is inconvenient by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      HackADay covered this same story and mentioned that there have been hacks to add CompactFlash card support and even USB to Apple II computers. I have seen a development board that you can use for CompactFlash, but honestly, it's price exceeds the original purchase price of the computer. I have yet to see the USB support they mentioned (and they didn't provide a link).

    13. Re:Damn this is inconvenient by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      Mine used an old cassette player, video was on a tv via a video recorder.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    14. Re:Damn this is inconvenient by scdeimos · · Score: 1

      They DID make an 800k 3.5" drive for the apple II, but it was not popular, as it needed many expensive upgrades to work.

      Bollocks. The Apple Disk 3.5 worked out of the box on the Apple IIgs (and was the preferred drive sold with it) and worked on any other Apple II/II+/IIe that had a SmartPort controller. You're probably thinking of the UniDisk 3.5 which was, definitely, a pain in the butt on Apple II's but had its own onboard programmable CPU that made it "interesting" for copy protection strategies (and breaking them).

  9. Source by manu0601 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I understand this is an independent developer's work. How can he name the software like Apple's product, and even print "(c) Apple Computers Inc" on it? Shouln'd that awake Apple's army of evil lawers?

    1. Re:Source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Short answer: technically yes; probably not.

      Apple had the trademark on PRODOS, but it appears to have expired according to USPTO. Even then, they could probably make a case* that using PRODOS is likely to confuse consumers. The (c) notice, however, is merely acknowledging Apple's copyright over the original version, which is still valid - if anything, that might appease their lawyers and provide evidence that the developer was acting in good faith.

      * they might not actually win that case - expired TMs vs good faith use has been interpreted inconsistently by the courts - but they could certainly create enough of a ball-ache to persuade the indy dev that it wasn't worth the trouble to keep using the name.

  10. Don't you people have better things to do? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    Aren't there better things to do than play with a 30+ year old computer? Don't you dorks have better things to do with your time? There is no practical use for the Apple II in the modern world, nor has there been for at least two decades. You can get a newer computer if you just leave your parents' basement.

    1. Re:Don't you people have better things to do? by wierd_w · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Not everything is about the newest and shiniest, AC.

      Sometimes a nice jolt of nostalgia for a lost era in time just feels good. That's what this is for. Running a game in an emulator does not recreate the experience.

      The whir and grind of the disk drive, the clacking of the keys, the authentic tones from the real sound chips... For a brief moment, one can feel like they were 8 years old again.

      That is what this is about. Now, go take your soulless devotion to consumerism elsewhere.

    2. Re: Don't you people have better things to do? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, it is no less productive than the time spent by AC's posting on Slashdot.

    3. Re:Don't you people have better things to do? by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2

      Maybe he's practicing before he gets into updating orphaned Android smartphones? (we can only hope)

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    4. Re: Don't you people have better things to do? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So do you also consider Lunix to be useful?

    5. Re: Don't you people have better things to do? by wierd_w · · Score: 1

      this?
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      supports rs232, ppp, tcp/ip, multitasking, and some other useful bits...

      sure. i can think of some uses for such a system.

    6. Re:Don't you people have better things to do? by Etcetera · · Score: 1

      Aren't there better things to do than play with a 30+ year old computer? Don't you dorks have better things to do with your time? There is no practical use for the Apple II in the modern world, nor has there been for at least two decades. You can get a newer computer if you just leave your parents' basement.

      Yes, rather than bringing a little bit of extra polish to a piece of hardware/software that's simple and elegant, and does everything that it needs to, he could be spending that time completely ripping out tech in the most obnoxious way, like developing systemd.

      --
      Hire a Linux system administrator, systems engineer,
    7. Re: Don't you people have better things to do? by Hylandr · · Score: 1

      5 Billion a year useful enough? That's just Amazon.

      https://www.cnet.com/news/amaz...

      --
      ~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
    8. Re: Don't you people have better things to do? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No, this:

      Is Your Son a Computer Hacker?

      Author:
      T Reginald Gibbons
      Topic:
      Internet Idiocy
      Posted:
      Dec 02, 2001
      Comments:
      5913

      As an enlightened, modern parent, I try to be as involved as possible in the lives of my six children. I encourage them to join team sports. I attend their teen parties with them to ensure no drinking or alcohol is on the premises. I keep a fatherly eye on the CDs they listen to and the shows they watch, the company they keep and the books they read. You could say I'm a model parent. My children have never failed to make me proud, and I can say without the slightest embellishment that I have the finest family in the USA.

      Two years ago, my wife Carol and I decided that our children's education would not be complete without some grounding in modern computers. To this end, we bought our children a brand new Compaq to learn with. The kids had a lot of fun using the handful of application programs we'd bought, such as Adobe's Photoshop and Microsoft's Word, and my wife and I were pleased that our gift was received so well. Our son Peter was most entranced by the device, and became quite a pro at surfing the net. When Peter began to spend whole days on the machine, I became concerned, but Carol advised me to calm down, and that it was only a passing phase. I was content to bow to her experience as a mother, until our youngest daughter, Cindy, charged into the living room one night to blurt out: "Peter is a computer hacker!"

      As you can imagine, I was amazed. A computer hacker in my own house! I began to monitor my son's habits, to make certain that Cindy wasn't just telling stories, as she is prone to doing at times.

      After a few days of investigation, and some research into computer hacking, I confronted Peter with the evidence. I'm afraid to say, this was the only time I have ever been truly disappointed in one of my children. We raised them to be honest and to have integrity, and Peter betrayed the principles we tried to encourage in him, when he refused point blank to admit to his activities. His denials continued for hours, and in the end, I was left with no choice but to ban him from using the computer until he is old enough to be responsible for his actions.

      After going through this ordeal with my own family, I was left pondering how I could best help others in similar situations. I'd gained a lot of knowledge over those few days regarding hackers. It's only right that I provide that information to other parents, in the hope that they will be able to tell if their children are being drawn into the world of hacking. Perhaps other parents will be able to steer their sons back onto the straight and narrow before extreme measures need to be employed.

      To this end, I have decided to publish the top ten signs that your son is a hacker. I advise any parents to read this list carefully and if their son matches the profile, they should take action. A smart parent will first try to reason with their son, before resorting to groundings, or even spanking. I pride myself that I have never had to spank a child, and I hope this guide will help other parents to put a halt to their son's misbehaviour before a spanking becomes necessary.

      1. Has your son asked you to change ISPs?

      Most American families use trusted and responsible Internet Service Providers, such as AOL. These providers have a strict "No Hacking" policy, and take careful measures to ensure that your internet experience is enjoyable, educational and above all legal. If your child is becoming a hacker, one of his first steps will be to request a change to a more hacker friendly provider.

      I would advise all parents to refuse this request. One of the reasons your son is interested in switching providers is to get away from AOL's child safety filter. This filter is vital to any parent who wants his son to enjoy the internet without the endangering him through exposure to "adult" content. It is best to stick with the protection A

  11. Still better than..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    Any linux distro out today.

  12. this will make by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    a certain rebecca very very happy

    1. Re:this will make by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      not surprised the white supremacists mras of the south modded this down.

  13. Stupid kids .. yes there WAS lower case on the ][+ by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 5, Informative

    > Which is pretty remarkable, considering the Apple ][ and ][+ don't even support lower-case characters.

    Then why did Apple have a "Tech Note #141" describing how to install the Shift-Key Mod ???

    * https://archive.org/stream/II_II-Shift-Key_Modification/II_II-Shift-Key_Modification_djvu.txt

    Apple II and II Plus: Shift-Key Modification

    Revised: 9/30/88
    Security: Everyone

    Apple II and II Plus: Shift-Key Modification

    This article last reviewed: 26 September 1984

    Probably all Apple II owners have heard of a mysterious "Shift-Key Mod". To
    many it has remained nothing more than a rumor, possibly because most
    modifications are thought to be costly additions. Not so the "Shift-Key Mod",
    the most simple and least expensive addition anyone could do for their Apple
    II. Of software recognizing this modification, there is a wide variety:
    Apple Writer, most other word processing software packages, and the firmware
    of most 80-column cards.

    Software must recognize this alphabetic modification; the Apple alone does not
    do it automatically. After modification, the shift key allows you to enter
    uppercase characters as you do on a typewriter, without the need to precede
    them with a press of the Escape key or some other control character. You can
    still use the shift key to type the regular "shift" non-alphabetic characters,
    such as &,*,(,), and so on.

    With the "Shift-Key Mod", you use the shift key to signal the software from an
    unused part of the Apple II Game port. The Port can address four separate
    hand controls and three hand-control pushbuttons of which only two of each are
    used by the standard game paddles and joysticks. This leaves unused two hand
    control inputs and a hand-control pushbutton input. The "Shift-Key Mod"
    exploits the address of this remaining pushbutton input. In practice,
    software supporting the modification first reads the character value at the
    address of the keyboard. Then, since joysticks use pushbuttons #0 and #1, the
    software reads the state of the address of pushbutton #2 (PB2) . If the PB2
    address is operated then the software simply makes the keyboard value
    represent uppercase.

    To keep things in perspective, please note that this does not modify the Apple
    II to display lowercase nor enter lowercase characters into your programs when
    the II is in its native 40-column mode. To read the shift key's new address,
    the Apple II must have special software; without it, the II stays in 40-column
    mode. Most 80-column cards have firmware to read the address and display
    lowercase when in 80-column mode. When coding, you can easily enter lowercase

    characters into your own program's output strings with 80-column cards
    supporting the modification. However, when the program runs in 40-column
    mode, lowercase characters will appear as "garbage" characters. Adding the
    reasonably-priced "Lowercase Character Generator" on the motherboard allows
    proper display of lowercase characters in 40-column mode. Apple Writer also
    supports lowercase character generators.

    Now to make the modification. Connect two micro test clips together with 8
    inches of 28 AWG wire and solder the connections. Use micro test clips to
    match the size of Radio Shack #270-370 clips. 28 AWG wire-wrap will do. Clip
    size is most important; wire size and brands are less important. Once the
    jumper cools, install it this way:

    1. Clip one end to pin 1 of the IC located at motherboard location H14, a
    74LS251 .

    2. Clip the other end to pin 24 of the molex connector that connects the
    keyboard electronics to the keyboard. Pin 25 of this connecter is at the
    end away from the Apple's power supply. Pin 24 is to the left of pin 25.

    Copyright 1988 Apple Computer, Inc.

    Tech Info Library Article Number: 141

  14. Re:Stupid kids .. yes there WAS lower case on the by Rick+Zeman · · Score: 1

    Shift Key mod. Now that's something I haven't thought of 25 years.

  15. Bogus numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    5 1/4" floppy drives had SECTORS, and they were 256 bytes each.....not BLOCKS of 512 bytes.

    1. Re:Bogus numbers by wierd_w · · Score: 1

      Apple II did not use MFM encoding.

    2. Re:Bogus numbers by mark-t · · Score: 1

      In dos 3.2 and 3.3 days, yes. Not so much the case with prodos, which did indeed use 512 byte blocks, which were implemented as pairs of sectors as understood by the floppy disk controller, but could reflect the native block size used for some hard drives.

      --
      File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
    3. Re:Bogus numbers by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 2

      >5 1/4" floppy drives had SECTORS, and they were 256 bytes each.....not BLOCKS of 512 bytes.

      You're omitting several, key details:

      * DOS 3.3 and ProDOS had sectors of 256 bytes each.
      * ProDOS grouped *two* sectors together as a single block.
      * A sector could be as long (or as short) as you wanted.

      i.e.
      - Copy ][+ versions before 4.0 had 1 sector the entire track which is why it was able to load so fast.
      - Prince of Persia and other Broderbund game used Roland Gustafsson's RWTS18 which had 18 sectors / track -- it did this by having 6 sectors that were 768 bytes each.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    4. Re:Bogus numbers by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      Right. It used GCR (Group Code Recording), which uses 5 bits to represent 4 bits of information. The whole point is because there were limits on how often the magnet flux reversals could occur on the disk.

    5. Re:Bogus numbers by tepples · · Score: 1

      Commodore used 5:4 GCR. Apple used a different 6:2 GCR.

    6. Re:Bogus numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, a lot of copy protection schemes messed with the sector formatting (changing the preamble for example or size) to mess with standard disk copying tools. Ah, the good old days of cracking those games and writing custom bootloaders/mods to make them compatible with standard disk formats more easily pirated :)

    7. Re:Bogus numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      But the stage-0 bootloader on a standard floppy was only track 0, sector 0 - ie, 256 bytes. Granted, there was a hack that could trigger a multi-sector load on boot, but I don't recall ever seeing anyone do that (even the copy protection schemes). Everything I ever saw would do stage 0 in under 256 then bootstrap to the stage 1 loader that usually was on some part of the rest of track 0.

    8. Re:Bogus numbers by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      Good ol'e days never stopped :-)

      i.e. 4am's "Passport" auto-cracking which uses the disk's own RWTS to read the rest of the disk.

      https://archive.org/details/Pa...

  16. Geek by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    I'm going to leave this conversation now, I'm afraid my geek will show too much.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  17. That's 65c02 by beanpoppa · · Score: 1

    I don't know why...

    1. Re:That's 65c02 by Shirley+Marquez · · Score: 1

      The 65C02 follows the same convention that the later variations of the classic 7400 series TTL glue logic used - sandwiching the technology indicator in the middle of the part number. The original 6502 was an NMOS part; the 65C02 is a CMOS version that uses less power. It also has a few enhancements.

      Over in TTL land, you originally had the 7400, 7401, etc. Since then there have been many variants in the form 74X00 (or XX00 or XXX00 or XXXX00), where the letters in the middle indicate a difference of technology. So we have the 74L00 (low power, slow), 74H00 (high power, faster), 74S00 (Schottky, much faster), 74LS00 (low power Schottky, the same speed or faster than the original but using less power), 74C00 (CMOS), 74HC00 (higher speed CMOS), and many more.

      There are now even low voltage CMOS versions, like the 74ALVC series for 1.8 to 3.3 volt systems and the AUC series for operation down to 0.8 volts. But the most recent series only include a few parts, mostly buffers and latches. There isn't much call for the other 74 series parts like counters and ALUs any more, as more complex logic is done either in software or in logic on the CPU or GPU or SOC or perhaps in an FPGA.

      Wikipedia has a summary of all the variations of the 7400 family: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

  18. Vintage Leather Luggage Bags by richardjhonson123 · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Vintage Leather Bags Vintage Leather Bag | Vintage Leather Bags | Vintage Leather Bags for women | Vintage Leather Bags for men | Handmade Vintage Leather Messenger Bags , Vintage Leather Laptop Bags , Vintage Leather Luggage Bags , Vintage Leather Backpack Bags , Vintage Leather Travel Bags, Vintage Leather bags, Vintage leather backpack Bags, Vintage Leather satchel bags,Vintage leather duffle Bags, Vintage Leather Tote bags

  19. Not without an 80-column card, son by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Without an 80-column card, those machines do NOT display lowercase characters. That is to say, out of the box, neither the ][ nor the ][+ does what you think it does. Your citation says as much.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  20. CORRECTION by tepples · · Score: 1

    I completely messed up the terminology in my parent post. I'll try to use standard RLL terminology here.

    Commodore 1541 used an (0,2) RLL code that expands each 4 bits to 5 bits. This is similar to IBM GCR, but the code mappings differ.

    The earliest model of Apple Disk II (13 sector, DOS 3.2) used a different (0,1) RLL code that expands 5 bits to 8. This allowed 3.25 KiB on each of 35 tracks, or 113.75 KiB per disk side. A later revision of Disk II (16 sector, DOS 3.3/ProDOS) kept the 8-bit words but improved detection of longer gaps between flux transitions, allowing a (0, 2) RLL code that expands 6 bits to 8. This allowed 4 KiB on each of 35 tracks, or 140 KiB per disk side.

    IBM floppy drives and Mitsumi Quick Disk used MFM (Modified Frequency Modulation). This is a form of (1, 3) RLL that requires at least one bit of non-transition per transition, expanding 1 bit to 2 but allowing the overall bitrate to be doubled. This resulted in 4.5 KiB per track.

    Compact Disc uses EFM, a (2,10) RLL that expands 8 bits to 14 with three linking bits between words. DVD uses the same expansion but with only two linking bits.

  21. Not quite true. by HBI · · Score: 1

    It was entirely possible for them to keep making iPod classics with a flash drive in them. People are retrofitting them actively to late-gen iPod classics.

    Apple didn't want to.

    --
    HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    1. Re:Not quite true. by Shirley+Marquez · · Score: 1

      Apple had a reason for not making an iPod Classic with a flash drive. If they had sold it at a comparable price to the version with the miniature hard drive (and they could have given the current price of flash memory; 128GB is around $30 retail now which means it costs Apple less than that), it would have exposed the lie that is their current pricing of the versions of the iPhone and iPad with more than the minimum amount of memory. Those big and important parts of their customer base would have rebelled and demanded lower prices, which would have cost Apple a LOT of profit.

    2. Re:Not quite true. by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Apple had a reason for not making an iPod Classic with a flash drive. If they had sold it at a comparable price to the version with the miniature hard drive (and they could have given the current price of flash memory; 128GB is around $30 retail now which means it costs Apple less than that), it would have exposed the lie that is their current pricing of the versions of the iPhone and iPad with more than the minimum amount of memory. Those big and important parts of their customer base would have rebelled and demanded lower prices, which would have cost Apple a LOT of profit.

      Well, when the iPod classic was discontinued, the iPod Touch was popular, which DID have 128GB of flash storage.

      And the Classic really was the only one in the lineup with spinning rust, which was going away because flash was more efficient, cheaper and smaller - the 160GB hard drive in the last Classic could be replaced with flash memory with a volume that was much smaller. At the same time, SoCs had native flash interfaces and didn't require CE-ATA or ATA interfaces (which was getting rarer).

      Apple could've gone with a SSD manufacturer, but PATA SSDs were and still are pricey. Which would've pushed the Classic price up into Touch territory, further diminishing sales - for most people, the Touch would be far more useful than the need for a USB hard drive at the same price.

      I'm sure Apple considered expanding the Nano line of iPods to have 128GB of flash (which is what a Classic would be in the end) but decided the added cost wouldn't make economic sense, especially at a time when iPod sales were tumbling into nothingness. People just weren't buying iPods, especially large ones anymore with their smartphones. The small 4/8/16GB iPods still had some sales purely because of their low cost and practical disposability which meant they were popular at gyms and running and all that.

      It's a wonder Apple hasn't killed off the iPod altogether - even the iPod Touch isn't selling.

    3. Re:Not quite true. by Shirley+Marquez · · Score: 1

      Apple won't kill the iPod completely so long as people continue to buy the existing models. They just won't invest in updates or promotion. (The iPod Touch could conceivably get an update based on a newer generation of iPhone, since it's basically an iPhone without the radios. The Nano and Shuffle are unlikely to get changed at all, at least in any way visible to the buyer.) The iPod is no longer a hot new product, but Apple is still selling plenty of them by the standards of any company not named Apple. Sunset industries can be profitable cash cows if you manage the milking process well.

  22. Re:Stupid kids .. yes there WAS lower case on the by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Says right there in your quoted text

    To keep things in perspective, please note that this does not modify the Apple II to display lowercase nor enter lowercase characters

    All the shift key mod did was make it possible for programs to detect an independent press of the shift key by mapping it to game controller button 2. Most game controllers only used buttons 0 and 1, so button 2 (as well as two additional paddle inputs,) went unused for 99% of users. I'm not too familiar with the technical limitations of displaying lowercase on the II and IIplus (I had a //e) but I do recall there were word processors that worked around this by highlighting letters that are to be printed as uppercase. When you printed, you got upper & lowercase text even though everything was displayed at uppercase on screen.