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FCC Delays Cable TV Apps Vote, Needs Time To Work Out Licensing (arstechnica.com)

The FCC has delayed a vote on a plan that would require pay-TV operators to make free TV applications, so cable subscribers will have to wait longer for an alternative to renting set-top boxes from cable companies. ArsTechnica reports:The FCC was scheduled to vote on final rules at its monthly meeting today, but the item was removed from the agenda just before the meeting began. The commission's Democratic majority still seems determined to issue new rules, but there have been objections from the cable industry and disagreements among Democratic commissioners over some of the details. "We have made tremendous progress -- and we share the goal of creating a more innovative and inexpensive market for these consumer devices," Chairman Tom Wheeler and fellow Democrats Mignon Clyburn and Jessica Rosenworcel said today in a joint statement. "We are still working to resolve the remaining technical and legal issues and we are committed to unlocking the set-top box for consumers across this country." The vote could happen at next month's meeting, but the commissioners did not promise any specific timeline.

39 comments

  1. Free TV app by ls671 · · Score: 1

    Sperm bank is an app, Free TV app, enough with apps already.

    Seriously, I don't understand what TFS is about!

    --
    Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    1. Re:Free TV app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Xfinity was suppose to release a free app this fall, that you could install on a Roku and it would replace the need to rent a cable box. This is a good thing I am disappointed it has been delayed.

    2. Re:Free TV app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A dead medium. Nothing to see here.

    3. Re:Free TV app by The-Ixian · · Score: 1

      A dead medium. Nothing to see here.

      Says the guy using a web browser to make a post on the Internet

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    4. Re:Free TV app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since the Web has inherited what TV left behind?

    5. Re:Free TV app by The-Ixian · · Score: 1

      I misunderstood. I thought AC was talking about apps being a dead medium.

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    6. Re:Free TV app by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      You know they're going to make people hate it by crippling it and make them want to go back to the cable box. Examples of ways they can do that include preventing fast-forwarding commercials.

      Personally I think it's a wasted effort. Right now we're witnessing capitalism do its thing as streaming services are gradually doing what the FCC already failed to do with cablecard over a decade ago. Pretty much the only people who give a shit about cable anymore are people who watch sports, but if you watch sports then you're already getting fucked from multiple angles (i.e. pay per screw, high per subscriber rates for ESPN and other sports channels, blackouts, etc) and I really doubt that a set top box rule is going to do you any favors.

  2. Waste of time by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

    This is a waste of time and effort. Cable TV is not a need, it's a luxury service, and it's quickly becoming obsolete anyway. Internet service is a real *need* in modern society, just like other telecom services and electricity, but cable TV is not like this, it's purely for entertainment. Let the cablecos treat their TV customers however they want, and focus regulation on ISPs (which also happen to be cablecos in many cases).

    Why should I care if Rolls-Royce, Coach, or DeBeers were screwing over their customers?

    1. Re: Waste of time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Cable TV" is relevant because it is a bundle of licensed content including live sports with the assured QoS required to not start rebuffering in the middle of the game. Increasingly systems like Comcast X1 are delivering live linear streams as IP - just IP that never needs to suffer the packet loss and jitter of the open Internet.

    2. Re:Waste of time by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      So you are saying the FCC shouldn't have an opinion on anything at isn't a *need* as defined by you? Wow. Self centered much?

    3. Re: Waste of time by ls671 · · Score: 1

      Increasingly systems like Comcast X1 are delivering live linear streams as IP - just IP that never needs to suffer the packet loss and jitter of the open Internet.

      Most cable co do this now. Mine has even dropped support for analog signal over cable. OK, that pissed me off because there no way to just hook up a splitter/booster and have TV in all rooms by yourself anymore. I now need a device for each TV and the devices receive the signal through IP even if you don't subscribe to Internet services with them.

      They typically use LAN IPs (usually 10.0.0.0/8) to route traffic even for Internet subscribers. You just don't usually see it but I noticed the dhcpd giving me my Internet public address all have 10.0.0.0/8 addresses and I needed to allow communication with them since I usually block that traffic.

      I also worked for some cable co doing provisioning software and such. Each Internet cable modem has at least 2 IP adresses, one 10.0.0.0/8 and a public IP. They route to your public IP through the 10.0.0.0/8 address.

      route add (publicIP) gw (10.0.0.0/8 address) for the Internet access.

      The TV devices are plugged in before the cable modem so they have direct access to the the internal cable co LAN without going through the cable modem. Each TV device has its own MAC address and 10.0.0.0/8 IP. Easy enough to know what you are watching isn't it?

      By the way, cable co that offer phone also do it through IP (VOIP) and you don't notice unless you try to use an old fax machine and even then...

      In the end, the cable network has become just an IP network over DOCSYS.

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    4. Re: Waste of time by Nutria · · Score: 1

      Mine has even dropped support for analog signal over cable. ... I now need a device for each TV

      So did mine. And I don't (explicitly) pay a dime for it (but that's probably because I'm on their lowest tier service, which they discounted away just so I'd stay a TV customer).

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    5. Re: Waste of time by trevc · · Score: 1

      I bet you have a degree from ITT.

  3. Pretty sad really by fustakrakich · · Score: 0

    Why do we have the government regulating entertainment?

    And "technical" issues? Please! There are none.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    1. Re: Pretty sad really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They regulate it because it exists. That's reason enough for them.

    2. Re:Pretty sad really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They carry Emergency Alert Service broadcasts in the event of a national disaster.

    3. Re:Pretty sad really by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 2

      I understand the reservations, and on a certain level I agree with you.

      However, cable companies don't really work like the rest of the free-market economy.

      1) You have local monopolies. There is no normal invisible-hand working to help the consumer vote with their business. Sure, there are alternatives popping up in recent years, but no true direct competitor. Monopolies have to be governed to prevent abuses.

      2) They could become crucial information disseminators in times of invasion, natural disaster, or other emergency. Government has a vested interest in being able to reach the population in times of emergency.

      3) It's something people care about so, right or wrong, government feels it has to be involved. Government regulates all sorts of stuff. That's what they do, they govern. Depending on your individual political outlook you might want them governing less or more, but governing stuff is what they're all about.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
  4. force ISP to let your own hardware or may it part by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 2

    force ISP to let your own hardware or may it part of the base rate.

    Comcast business class with static ip forces you to rent with an fee on top of the static ip fee.

    ATT forces you to rent their gateway.

    Now with app based tv the ISP can say for security we must own the gateway and we want the gateway to do all.

  5. Isn't that what Cable Cards are for? by MillerHighLife21 · · Score: 1

    Mine seems to be working great in my Tivo.

    --
    "Don't teach a man to fish, feed yourself. He's a grown man. Fishing's not that hard." - Ron Swanson
    1. Re:Isn't that what Cable Cards are for? by crow · · Score: 1

      The first plan that they dropped was for software-only cable cards. This would mean you wouldn't have to pay a monthly rental fee for your cable card. If you terminate service or start new service, there would be no physical equipment to mess with.

      What I don't understand is why you can't already go out and buy a cable-card set-top box and stop renting one from the cable company. Unfortunately, with the rental cost of a cable card, it might not save that much money.

    2. Re:Isn't that what Cable Cards are for? by MillerHighLife21 · · Score: 1

      I don't know about your cable company but I'm using Charter and it's only $2.50 / month for the cable card. Since install I've had a Tivo Roamio and 3 Tivo Mini's connected to it in my house that have been just about everything I could want out of a TV experience.

      --
      "Don't teach a man to fish, feed yourself. He's a grown man. Fishing's not that hard." - Ron Swanson
    3. Re:Isn't that what Cable Cards are for? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You replaced the cable box rental fee with a cablecard rental fee and a tivo subscription fee which will brick if you cancel, or break down after the warranty if you bought the lifetime option which won't transfer to a new Tivo. Either way you're paying thousands extra for hardware that might only cost $100.

    4. Re:Isn't that what Cable Cards are for? by MillerHighLife21 · · Score: 1

      I've had 3 Tivo's in my life including a Series 2 that I bought in 2000. They're all still running.

      Quality of Tivo devices is incredibly good.

      --
      "Don't teach a man to fish, feed yourself. He's a grown man. Fishing's not that hard." - Ron Swanson
    5. Re:Isn't that what Cable Cards are for? by MillerHighLife21 · · Score: 1

      Also, the Tivo won't brick. It just stops getting updates for channel data. You can continue to view recordings or use any of the other features of the box.

      --
      "Don't teach a man to fish, feed yourself. He's a grown man. Fishing's not that hard." - Ron Swanson
  6. Previous Plan Preferred by crow · · Score: 2

    The previous plan to require the cable companies to support a software-only cable card was better. That would allow TVs and set-top boxes to be built with native cable support--you would just need to do some configuring. It would use the same encrypted QAM signal that is coming in over the coax.

    The app approach can be helpful, but it involves streaming the channels over the Internet instead of using the QAM signal that is already being sent. This has a number of downsides. Streamed video may be more highly compressed. It may be subject to dropped packets. Streaming may be subject to WiFi interference in places where coax already runs to the TV.

    Another advantage of the virtual cable card is that cable cards allow for recording. I know people are shifting to streaming on demand as the most popular option, but many of us like to record on DVRs. I love my MythTV, and many people love their TiVos.

    And then there's the privacy issue. How many times have I heard people complain about smart TVs sending data back to corporate servers for who-knows-what purpose? With a streaming app, you can't easily block that.

    All said, what really makes sense is both. Require both a freely licensed streaming app and a software-only cable card. Prohibit charging a rental fee for cable cards or set-top boxes until they comply with the regulation.

    1. Re:Previous Plan Preferred by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      Interesting, that does sound like it would be much better.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    2. Re:Previous Plan Preferred by crow · · Score: 1

      One other point: Cable channels are currently sent in MPEG-2 via encrypted QAM over coax. With Fios, the box in your garage (ONT) converts the fibre signal to coax, but the signal is still the same MPEG-2 over QAM. Streaming services use MPEG-4. Boxes like the Roku don't even support MPEG-2, so it has to be re-encoded for streaming.

      Eventually the cable companies may switch to MPEG-4, but that requires replacing all the existing cable boxes, and they're really happy getting $120/year for equipment that is already over a decade old.

      Note that the one thing stopping you from pairing a HD Homerun Prime with a cable card and a Roku to switch from a set-top box to a cable card is the fact that Roku doesn't support MPEG-2. Otherwise I expect it would be a popular solution.

  7. It's a bad idea anyway by Sloppy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Let's all hope that this ends up not happening. It'd be an extremely minor improvement which only prevents any serious improvement from ever happening.

    If the government is going to use force here, then it should be that any interstate commerce in TV must use standards. Why demand a free-as-in-beer app when you can just demand free-as-in-speech specs? That would get us all plenty of free-as-in-beer apps anyway, except that you get as many are needed, until everyone agrees it's competitive enough. Don't like Company X's TV player? Try Company Y's, or this one on githib, or write your own. A week after specs are published, you're going to have way better stuff available than any app Comcast is ever going to make for your Roku, which will be the next thing for you to be constantly bitching about (assuming you're still using the Roku when the app comes out).

    If you're not going to force the use of standards, then don't bother using force at all. Why go to so much trouble just to do it wrong? You're setting us up so that when we tire of this next failure, the cable companies will be able to say "but we did what you want! It's not fair to make us change again!"

    Protocols and interoperability are what have value. Stop stressing implementations so much. Doing things is fucking trivial, compared to figuring out what to do and being allowed to do it. Freedom gets you diversity, which gets you performance. Does anyone really still pretend to not know this?

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    1. Re:It's a bad idea anyway by SomewhatRandom · · Score: 1

      Completely agree - without standards I expect companies like Comcast and Verizon to release a "free app", with a crazy permissions grab on the device.

      push notifications (for service notifications, and of course specialized targeted offers)
      read contacts
      access GPS fine location
      bind vpn service
      camera
      audio input
      read log data
      read / write storage
      etc...

      Permissions grab to be justified by:

      The app needs these rights so you can host a geotagged live stream of your face while you are watching your favorite show, that people on your contacts list can access. Additionally, the video stream will be sent via a VPN tunnel established to the service provider for enhanced performance. Log data is needed because they need to troubleshoot the app after all.

      Companies like Verizon and Comcast will of course only use these permissions for things that are clearly labeled in the EULA and not for their own gain... and if you believe that last statement... my sympathies.

      I wonder what percentage of the population actually restricts perms on their IOS / Android devices for the applications they install.

      *FCC FAIL*

  8. So that explains it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I think this may explain why Apple paused its plans to incorporate a life TV service into the Apple TV app... why forge relationships with lots of $$$ if the government could force the cable company to foot the bill entirely and provide free apps ... which you could then just add to your exisitng box and not have to change your business model?

  9. CableCard continues to win by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't care about pay-per-view or its free variant "on demand" so CableCard mostly meets my needs. TiVo, Haulage PCI card, HDHomeRun and I'm sure there are many other compelling devices. The FCC & FTC just needs to more strictly enforce rules requiring cable companies make these available to and provide support for customers. They're not terribly difficult for vaguely tech-savvy users.

    They've gotten a bad rap because of how poorly most cable providers supported them up until the vendors making hardware that could leverage them all-but-died out. Now the support is pretty decent, but there are only a few alternatives.

    With that said, I would love licensed APIs that make all this content available to any device; I'm not so sure about requiring the TV providers to make the apps - this will just lead to nonsense like the Showtime app running better on Amazon Fire devices while HBO works best with AppleTV and Cinemax requires Chromecast. I'd rather see a unification rather than perpetuate fragmented platforms that cost consumers more money (and conveniently provide profit streams to the providers of the content, the pipes, the software, and the hardware.)

    1. Re:CableCard continues to win by nickmalthus · · Score: 1

      I am a cable card owner and I strongly disagree. Tivo is useless without an expense subscription and it is not PC friendly. Windows Media Center, the only way to record and play back copy-once content on a PC, was abandoned in Windows 10. SiliconDust, makers of the HDHomeRun device I use, are working on a DVR system that is CableCard approved but it has been in development for over a year and it still does not support DRM content. They do have a green android app that can play copy-once content but it is out of date and the new grey app is still waiting to get CableCard approval. Dealing with CableCards is a huge unnecessary pain which is why most non-technical people avoid it and pay set-top box rental fees.

      CableCards were mandated by the FCC and without their regulations would not exist at all. CableCard certification, controlled by the cable industry, is intentionally onerous, expensive, and time consuming. How many new CableCard devices have come on the market in the last three years?

      While I pay for the cable companies services I should be able to own everything in my house. The cable company certainly doesn't want to own the wiring in my house and they charge a hefty fee to work on it. Many of the copy-once channels already have Internet on-demand services that use built in browser DRM technology and one is free to buy their own cable modem so technology is not a barrier to dumping set-top boxes. There is nothing special about setup boxes except that they are a huge cash cow that the industry has a death grip on. Companies like Microsoft, Google, Sony, and Apply want to build unified entertainment solutions but the telcoms lock them out of the market.

      Markets don't exist without competition and the FCC should absolutely open up the TV services to new innovators.

      --
      If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be-T J
  10. Comcast Charges Anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is another DOA idea because the providers will continue to charge the same rate for this as they do with CableCards. F'n Comcast charges for the "outlet" as opposed to the hardware.

  11. They'll find a way to make up the income... by vtTom · · Score: 1

    No matter what the FCC decides, the cable companies will eventually find a way to make up a new fee that replaces the lost lease income. For instance, I lease an STB from Dish Network to the tune of about $7/mo. I could buy the exact name model of STB on eBay and send back the leased unit, but to authorize it for use with Dish they would change me a, you guessed it, $7/mo BYOSTB "access fee."

  12. home servers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I was younger, I imagined a day would come when everyone would be able to have a server at home that would allow them to effectively "have a TV channel on the internet" that they control. With such competitive options available, I never imagined the established cable TV system would continue to be considered as important and fundamental as it clearly still is. If the barrier to competition was so low that a person with a raspberry pi running debian (not android, not winblowz) could compete with NBC nightly news...

  13. Roku with Cable Card by crow · · Score: 1

    I think what most people would love to have is a Roku with a cable card. The current hardware won't do MPEG-2; otherwise people would pair the Roku with a HD Homerun Prime. The Prime can tune three channels, so you would need one cable card for three Rokus/TVs. If Roku did this, they would crush the set-top box market.

    1. Re:Roku with Cable Card by ninthbit · · Score: 1

      Why would be have a Roku and cable? I bought them because I left. Once everyone drops cable, the networks will realize they need apps or deals with Hulu/Netflix. As everyone here knows, it's the ISP side that needs FCC attention.

    2. Re:Roku with Cable Card by Woldscum · · Score: 1

      Why would be have a Roku and cable?

      YouTube and Twitch.