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NSA, GCHQ Have Been Intercepting In-Flight Mobile Calls For Years (reuters.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Reuters: American and British spies have since 2005 been working on intercepting phone calls and data transfers made from aircraft, France's Le Monde newspaper reported on Wednesday, citing documents from former U.S. spy agency contractor Edward Snowden. According to the report, also carried by the investigative website The Intercept, Air France was targeted early on in the projects undertaken by the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) and its British counterpart, GCHQ, after the airline conducted a test of phone communication based on the second-generation GSM standard in 2007. That test was done before the ability to use phones aboard aircraft became widespread. "What do the President of Pakistan, a cigar smuggler, an arms dealer, a counterterrorism target, and a combatting proliferation target have in common? They all used their everyday GSM phone during a flight," the reports cited one NSA document from 2010 as saying. In a separate internal document from a year earlier, the NSA reported that 100,000 people had already used their mobile phones in flight as of February 2009, a doubling in the space of two months. According to Le Monde, the NSA attributed the increase to "more planes equipped with in-flight GSM capability, less fear that a plane will crash due to making/receiving a call, not as expensive as people thought." Le Monde and The Intercept also said that, in an internal presentation in 2012, GCHQ had disclosed a program called "Southwinds," which was used to gather all the cellular activity, voice communication, data, metadata and content of calls made on board commercial aircraft.
Now what?
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
I don't believe it.
All 5eyes countries have moved to a more extreme surveillance regime over time.
Take Theresa May, she was Home Secretary. For quite a while only women would be made Home Secretary, and we didn't know why. Then we found out about the mass surveillance of Britain done in secret and against Parliament wishes and the reason was clear. Online porn. Men surf porn, MPs do too.
You can't have a boss with a weak spot being spied on by GCHQ. So the Prime Minister always chose a surveillance friendly women in the role of Home Secretary, who wouldn't rock the boat, and wouldn't be vulnerable to the surveillance.
So David Cameron resigns, and she sort of works her way from the Home Office, into the Prime Ministers office. Did we elect her? No, she just sort of became the PM. None of the major political candidates wanted to stand, I wonder why, they would all know about the surveillance.
And as PM she passes a new law, legalizing the mass surveillance they were already doing.
So you can see how GCHQ's mass surveillance of Britain has affected the political makeup of Britain. Just by existing, they've made Britain into an authoritarian state with an unelected leader.
And the same pattern is happening right across the 5 eyes nations. With leaders increasingly being pro-surveillance, extreme right, in power without a democratic mandate from the voters. Trump is just the latest of these.
There's no such thing as a slipper slope fallacy. It's truth. Alternatively, if you give a mouse a cookie...
Spy agencies gonna spy. It's what they do. For the NSA there's some legal issues with intercepts of US citizens communications inside the US, or perhaps on US carriers (not sure about that though). No such restriction on GHCQ.
What do the President of Pakistan, a cigar smuggler, an arms dealer, a counterterrorism target, and a combatting proliferation target have in common?
They're all legit targets for surveillance.
I still have a Pentium Pro 180 tucked under by desk for that DOS nostalgia.
What if I'm the political opposition to the current power holders? More to the point, what if I'm the political opposition exposing the corruption of the current power holders who have control over a massive surveillance state?
Do I have the right to be worried then?
captcha: depends
At this point (honestly well before it) its simpler to assume that any and all communications medium around the globe have been spied upon by the 5 Eyes coalition since at least the mid 80's when Bell and others began to coalesce and merge once more due to deregulation and a very friendly set of first-world government policies.
The proof will be nice, but its kind of done deal at this point that it happened. Letters, phone calls, internet communications, BBS systems, and even fucking smoke signals were likely intercepted by at least one member.
So... what are we gonna do to prevent this in the future despite these government's insistence on being allowed to look at our stuff?
And keep in mind, those who say they have nothing to hide, its not just the governments get this data, its anyone who can hack them. And you always have something to hide, or do you really not care if your neighbors/family/pastor know what kind of porn you like to surf at 3am on Sunday when the family is all asleep?
This is only the current set of programs. The prior set had other names, and were data shared under other agreements.
And, as always, you won't do anything.
You never do.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Yeah you do. If left unchecked everything will wind up on the slope.
You don't want to live in a world where everything, even innocuous things like hairstyle, are mandated by law. Because then we are stuck with super nazis who will put you in jail because one of your tires is inflated to 36 psi instead of the mandatory 35.
When mundane things become a matter of law we are literally in hell.
I have never been able to establish a connection while at cruising altitude. I haven't tried during takeoff or landing though.
So one's Constitutional rights end above 10,000 feet?
ZERO.
Hello moderators, +5 Funny please... Or if you're in a bad mood, -1 Redundant or Overrated. Anything but Insightful, Informative, or Interesting. It's none of those...
I thought that was because mgmt wouldn't let you have a heater under your desk to keep your feet warm.
Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
An astute POTUS with business acumen could use this capability to gather industrial intel and turn a tidy profit for himself !
The law is not an ass. No really.
https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/cnslttns/ntnl-scrt/thm09-en.aspx
Were you born stupid, or was your intelligence drained out in college? Because why in the hell should American spies give a rat's tiny asshole about French Constitutional rights?
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
So this smells like maybe Imarsat got tapped, but were they tapping at the ground teleport relay points, using some sort of lawful access backdoor hole? Can't be satellite SIGINT capture, wince that would only capture conversation going up to a satellite.
Actually no one should care about any others rights. Correct? Why put exceptions on a rule? That makes the rule useless.
I have the right of ANYONE else I deem fit.
Goatse!
]=O=*[
Once you've seen it, you can't unsee it!
I've requested some of my intercepted financial statements which was encrypted by ransomware on my fileservers, but up to the moment I am still waiting a copy from them.
captcha: shallow (post)
intercepting ALL calls for years.
The ongoing damage control trying to convince you that you haven't been living in "gilded cage".
You privacy is invaded for advertising! It's invaded for nation security!
That is misleading.
It's invaded so that you can be kept down "where you belong" by people who got fat off easy business and don't have the ability to compete with you if you are able to reach your potential and enter an even playing field.
What???
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
Please tell me that quoted NSA "internal document" was not classified. I'm not supposed to read US govt classified information except under specific conditions. Even if it's widely distributed or "public knowledge". Classified means classified. Publishing classified information right in the slashdot story stream where I could read it places me in a difficult position.
" innocuous things like hairstyle, are mandated by law."
Actually, at least if it's mandated by law it would be possible to know what the laws are, and even somehow change them. In the end, those are just "bad laws" and we already have plenty of those on the books.
The *worst* outcome is when the "laws" are secret or unknowable and enforced arbitrarily. That's where mass surveillance is going. There won't be a law saying "visiting website XYZ is illegal", since if there was there would be an easy way to query the database and go door knocking to arrest everyone. No, it will be used in the opposite way: when you're being socially or politically "difficult" or even just successful: your data will be leaked to the press, you will be arrested on trumped up charges founded by surveillance data that are "too secret" to release to the public, and you will generally be shamed and tamed into submission. That is *not* a fair and open society based on the rule of law, and that is why mass surveillance is fundamentally wrong.
Or beastiality.. a certain Parliament member's member in a pig's mouth anyone?
CP viewing from British government was brought up on slashdot a year or two back: There was also another about a sex abuse scandal utilizing orphans/foster children during the 80s up until recently. Interestingly, before the last member of that ring died, it was covered up by the allegations against Pitcairn's residents who in turn were jailed on the island with a moratorium on children under 13 living there. Interesting in that this helped distract from British government's own misdeeds in that realm, while also ensuring the slow death of the island's population, ensuring that independence will not be sought and access to the EEZ surrounding that and other nearby islands remains with Britain, who will no doubt begin largescale resource extraction efforts there in the coming decades.
Go look through the archives, it is all there. If the future is not to be rife with blackmail and sex abuse there needs to be a great culling from the top and unwilling members of the populace need to take up those positions in turn to help things recover. Politicians as currently established need to fall or be made to decline until control returns to the people.
Maybe France and USA are allies, or maybe because without the French, Americans would still be bowing to the British queen? Or maybe because people should respect people's right to privacy, whoever they are?
Not classified any more, apparently.
IMHO this was all about industrial espionage, it's difficult to imagine a reason for terrorist to use these services, they try to keep low profile.
Please tell me that quoted NSA "internal document" was not classified. I'm not supposed to read US govt classified information except under specific conditions. Even if it's widely distributed or "public knowledge". Classified means classified. Publishing classified information right in the slashdot story stream where I could read it places me in a difficult position.
Grow up.
It's like when the NIPR system blocked The Guardian website when the Snowdon files were being published.
And yet if you don't have criminal activity to hide, you have no reason to worry about any supposed slippery slope, real or fallacious.
It's not about what you have to hide, it's about what you have to loose.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Well, that's not what they're looking for anyway.
Since you seem to be very factually challenged.
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You should be especially worried about taking a plane a second time.
Tragedies are incredible political tools when spun just right, and two birds with one stone is too good to pass up.
I guess your concept of 2 sets of rules has eluded you. Spies have different rules to follow than others, correct? Why? Because some group of assholes said it was ok.
I guess it all whooshes right over you.
In other news, the NSA and GCHQ have been spying on ROT13'd telnet connections!
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
I guess your concept of 2 sets of rules has eluded you.
Or you didn't explain yourself well.
Because some group of assholes said it was ok.
Are you a citizen of the world, or something?
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
Makes no claims that the NSA was intercepting calls made by those people in the US, nor GCHQ in the UK. Since Air France was targeted they may have been intercepting calls made anywhere in the world.
This is, by the way, what NSA and GCHQ are supposed to be doing. Intercepting foreign (to the US and UK respectively) communications.
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That's what spy agencies do
I am a citizen of me. Don't really give 2 shits what someone else thinks I am supposed to do. I can drive 50 miles west and find a different set of rules. I can drive 50 miles north and find another set. After a while you realize everyone just wants to be a control freak and you decide they can ALL fuck off.
Peace out.
Americans are still bowing to the British Queen. They are her muscle in the great empire, which is more powerful than ever. Make no mistake, this 'independence' silliness is an illusion, wonderful functional propaganda that keeps them motivated, letting them think they are in control, when in truth,they do everything she commands. Take the middle east, for example, it's entirely a British operation.
Maybe you should grow up. It sounds like the OP has a security clearance to maintain, unlike you jobless hippies.
When are you going to understand that you're *all* criminals?
This, not just because of the "don't talk to the police" part, but the part about laws, and how to break them unknowingly then implicate yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik
I think the argument could be made in this case about intent. The OP was not intending to come across that material, if he actively went out looking for it that is a different matter.
The state is already doing that. Go look at what the state is doing to libertarians. Particularly those with the loudest voices partaking in the Free State Project (a migration of liberty-leaning folks to New Hampshire for the purpose of pursuing a free state, the first of its kind, and we're not talking revolution here, even if that's where its likely to head should things progress far enough down the road, but the point is *nobody* is advocating violent revolution, just pushing for an independence movement).
When they raided the Shire Free Church's property (which was an *activist center* prior during the time of a supposed 'crime') Ian Freeman's name got plastered all over the news as a paedophile (not the first time). His name was on the Internet connection for which was in the search warrant, but the property was owned by the Shire Free Church (which has THREE board members). The news reported it as if he alone was abusing children. Ian doesn't even *like* children. He had his tubes tied a very long time ago. The internet connection was supposedly used to access that PlayPen Tor onion site. The number of people utilizing Ian's internet connection was in the hundreds of people. There were a significant number of people renting rooms above the activist center also using the internet connection. They *seized* everything from people totally unrelated who rented from him/or the church (??? unsure, but the people weren't even renting at the time of the supposed access). They stole thousands and thousand of dollars of equipment in an effort to shut down his radio show and radio network (that airs other libertarian shows) that broadcasts on 170 radio stations across the country.
He's not the only one. The FBI has targeted numerous libertarian politicians in New Hampshire who have migrated here for the purpose of pursuing a free state. They've setup stings to get libertarian politicians on charges from sex with a 14 year old (which was entrapment and he even refuted, the whole thing was based on not actual sex, but text messages) to drug charges (involving numerous libertarian politicians at the state house). Mind you that we've had multiple bills passed by the houses to legalize pot which was at issue and the only reason they haven't become law is because the governor refused to sign.
Fortunately there are 20,000 people who are working on moving here and we get new movers regularly. We have thousands of people here already (10% of those who signed, plus those who live here already, and that is a lot given that New Hampshire is already better than average freedom/liberty wise). They're not going to succeed in undermining the effort. We just end up with more publicity every time they raid, arrest, or react to our efforts. In the mean time we are succeeding in undoing bad laws and fending off new bad bills being proposed.
The NSA, FBI, GCHQ, and these other organizations are all defining terrorist as whoever their opposition is. The solution is not to elect Trump or whatever. He's part of the system pushing for more surveillance, a bigger police state, more boarder walls, etc.
If you want to fix things we have to shrink our expectations and focus on issues at a local level. Not just anywhere, but in one area. The Free State Project is the only real remotely good solution as far as I can see. There aren't enough people who want freedom and liberty to fix the federal government or any government anywhere else. The only way we can fix things is by migrating those who want these things to one region for the purpose of pursuing them and that is what the Free State Project is all about.
It's a proven solution that is having an impact in New Hampshire with about 10% of the 20,000 signers having moved thus far already and we're only begun the migration officially this year. We're getting libertarian politicians elected (and the establishment is freaked out- even targeting libertarians from radio hosts to libertarians politicians who have been elected). They are using sex and drugs to try and undermine the movement, but failing. Real libertarians see right through these tactics and when we get publicity from it we get new movers and signers.
Check out http://www.freestateproject.org/ for info on the movement and http://www.freekeene.com/ for news on libertarian issues in New Hampshire. There are other great sites and places to check out too for videos on activism going on here. YouTube has tons of videos of activists fighting in court (and winning some important cases, like freedom to record police, etc): http://www.youtube.com/freekeene . Every summer there is Porcfest and in the winter Liberty Forum. Both events attract libertarians from across the country. The summer camping event (Porcfest) is the biggest and attracts thousands. The hardest thing to do is resist dropping everything and moving up here. I moved in March and have been super excited about all the weekly events and activities that are going on here that are helping to nudge the bar of progress a little bit further.
The NSA and GCHQ, creeping on citizens since 2005! Good job people, good job.
> The *worst* outcome is when the "laws" are secret or unknowable and enforced arbitrarily.
We are heading in that direction (if not there already).
There are a bajillion laws and "ignorance of the law is no excuse", also there are various regulatory agencies that make regulations which have the force of law.
There are so many laws that you are probably violating something that you don't know about, and some things you know about but figure no one will care about.
"Show me the man and I’ll find you the crime."
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