Slashdot Mirror


Turkey Blocks Tor's Anonymity Network (engadget.com)

An anonymous reader writes: Turkey's President Erdogan and the ruling AKP party are increasingly bent on silencing online dissent, and that now affects you even if you're smart enough to evade typical censorship methods. Watchdog group Turkey Blocks has confirmed that Turkey is blocking the Tor anonymity network's direct access mode for most users. You can still use a bridge mode for now, but there are hints that internet providers might be hurting performance even then. The restrictions come alongside a recent government ban on virtual private network services.

74 comments

  1. How dare you!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    Good thing he's a member of the "religion of peace."

    1. Re:How dare you!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Good thing he's a member of the "religion of peace."

      Considering Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton support Turkey's president this should not be surprising.

    2. Re:How dare you!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah. So can we look forward to Trump's not working with authoritarian regimes? Or is this one of those "I'm not pro-Trump, I'm just anti-Democrat" posts? Hard to tell... the stupid here can get too thick to see through.

      Interesting point that the only countries that can (by their own laws) openly bribe Trump for favorable treatment are authoritarian regimes. I think we can see much help and favor for Erdogan, Putin, and many others, as they plan meetings in Trump's hotels and properties and erect more in their wonderful countries.

      Not that the USA hasn't always put stability before freedom for its entire history. Except of course, when it reels crazily in the other direction, with Bush II's "freedom agenda" and the toppling of Saddam.

  2. Got nothing to hide? by Calydor · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you have nothing to hide you should have nothing to fear.

    Wait. Oh, I'm sorry.

    If you have nothing to hide you should hope the leader of your country doesn't suffer from delusional paranoia and sees enemies everywhere.

    --
    -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    1. Re:Got nothing to hide? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure all the Viagra in the world could not make that miracle happen.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Got nothing to hide? by Calydor · · Score: 1

      Miracles: If they actually happened, they'd be called events.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    3. Re:Got nothing to hide? by Chrisq · · Score: 2

      If you have nothing to hide you should have nothing to fear.

      Wait. Oh, I'm sorry.

      If you have nothing to hide you should hope the leader of your country doesn't suffer from delusional paranoia and sees enemies everywhere.

      This is a Muslim country we're talking about, just not being a Muslim (or the wrong type of Muslim) will make you an enemy

    4. Re:Got nothing to hide? by PPH · · Score: 1

      To be fair, Turkey just went through a coup attempt. So perhaps a bit of paranoia is to be expected from Erdogan and his government. And the British aren't very far behind Turkey in terms of Internet privacy. Just to keep things in perspective.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    5. Re:Got nothing to hide? by Calydor · · Score: 1

      So you're saying that since Erdogan is showing a lot of fear he has a lot to hide?

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    6. Re:Got nothing to hide? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Coup attempt? You mean the "fake news" coup attempt whereas Erdogan then used as an excuse to kill anyone he considered an enemy?
      You need to expand your information gathering to outside the basement.

    7. Re:Got nothing to hide? by Richard_at_work · · Score: 3

      Its not out of the question that the coup attempt was manufactured just so Erdogan could clamp down as he has - blaming an elderly exiled cleric in the US, arresting thousands of teachers and university professors, doctors, police etc. Invading Syria (that one hasnt made the news much - Turkey currently has a significant amount of armoured fighting vehicles and troops hundreds of miles within Syria right now). Increased action against the Kurds.

      I'm not entirely convinced there was ever an opposition capable of initiating a coup, certainly not one which has tendrils the length of which Erdogan is suggestimg with his detentions...

    8. Re:Got nothing to hide? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >like the pedophile prophet Muhammed.

      Assuming you believe the history of Islam, as proclaimed by Muslims, then you should also know that Aisha was the only wife of Muhammad who had not been previously married. You'd also know that the various traditional Muslim sources disagree about her age --- not just the was she nine or was she ten, but that she was probably fifteen or sixteen, due to her participation in several battles.

      If you are part of the group that thinks that Muhammad never existed, then slamming him for being a pedophile is utterly ridiculousness.Based upon the historical data, we can prove that Muhammad never existed, without having to resort to dubious Bayesian statistics, which merely reinforces that claim.

    9. Re: Got nothing to hide? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I watched that in real time. Friends of mine were on the street, and being shot at for taking over tanks. They sent me photos and went live over Facebook.

      Whatever you think of the coup, it did actually happen and was not fake news.

  3. Hooray for Islam! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Keep going, and Islam will take away women's rights all over the planet, and make sure all gays are dead!

    1. Re:Hooray for Islam! by scsirob · · Score: 1, Interesting

      They just went as far as demanding a German school in Turkey to ban any mention or celebration of Christmas.
      How about a fair trade. German schools in Turkey will refrain from references to Christmas if Turkey takes their islamic sh*t out of all European countries and shoves it..

      --
      To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
    2. Re:Hooray for Islam! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah. Because if there is one way to show your modern first world values are better than regressive theocratic third world values is to do exactly the same thing as a regressive third world theocracy!

    3. Re:Hooray for Islam! by johanw · · Score: 2

      The sultan will never do that, better we kick it out ourselves, like we did at the battle of Potiers in 732.

      Turkey is also trying to hide its latest attempt at genocide on the Kurds from the world to see. I'd say they are a prime candidate for a next "Arab spring", even though they are not Arabs.

    4. Re:Hooray for Islam! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's okay to be intolerant to the intolerant - provided they are truly intolerant (Muslims) and not just labelled as such (Trump supporters). Islam is fundamentally incompatible with modern society.

      Their system is a cancer on humanity. Cut out the tumor before it kills us.

    5. Re:Hooray for Islam! by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Yeah. Because if there is one way to show your modern first world values are better than regressive theocratic third world values is to do exactly the same thing as a regressive third world theocracy!

      One more of the 'we will become like them' horse-shit!

    6. Re:Hooray for Islam! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't think of a religion that isn't fundamentally incompatible with modern society most are just trying to pretend they can change to be.

    7. Re:Hooray for Islam! by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Turkey is considered part of the First World, not Third World. Scary as that sounds, it is true.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  4. Re:First! by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

    Typical Turkey's in a flap over Christmas

    --

    Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

  5. Please stop it Erdo! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You're giving the governments of the rest of us too many stupid ideas.. You're like the boyfriend who does a too good job making the rest of them having to step up their game.

    - "My leader is logging my sessions."
    - "Oh, that's cute my leader is always logging my traffic."
    - "Hah, my leader loves me the most he does all that and makes sure I can't circumvent it!"

    1. Re:Please stop it Erdo! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This is becoming more common. Pakistan already has banned VPN usage. China is pretty good at finding VPNs or bridges and stomping them, even changing posts in flight to social networks that use HTTPS. Iran is building its own "internet". Australia is working on copying China with a Great Firewall.

      It is only a matter of time before sites will become impossible to reach in countries, especially with ICANN now owned by the UN, and given the ability to select which sites get yanked just by which nations say so.

    2. Re: Please stop it Erdo! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well, it was bound to happen sooner or later. We had a good run, 20 years or so. Who would have thought it would last so long? But it's over now.

    3. Re:Please stop it Erdo! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair, TLS is just about the worst possible way to ensure that the transport layer is actually secure.

      First off, ANY trusted root CA can issue a cert for ANY domain. This means the the only reason that traffic going to say google.com usually goes to google.com is that CAs mostly won't issue for domains that popular enough.

      Secondly, you have the server presenting the certificate and it's up to you to determine the validity of said certificate. This is done by checking the CRL or certificate revocation list for the issuer. But you do this over regular http. There is an alternative protocol called OCSP that checks on a certificate by certificate basis instead of requiring you grab the entire CRL of the issuer. But the problem is still the same and now you're also leaking your browsing history in plain text to the entire internet.

      There is an option to pin a cert using DNS. Under this scheme the certificate is coming from the DNS part of the lookup instead of being presented by the server you're connecting to.

      But it's not mandatory and if someone has MITM your DNS connection and just deleted the entry from the lookup then it does no good.

      TLS also suffers from numerous other flaws, such as downgrading to weak cipher suites if stronger ciphers aren't supported. This ability to downgrade the connection means that someone could MITM you long enough to downgrade the connection and then snoop on you with the weaker cipher.

      Final flaw in TLS, perfectly legitmate self signed certificates are default rejected by the browser because the issuer isn't on the whitelist. This prevents companies from being their own CA.

      A much better solution would be a distributed combination CA / DNS on a blockchain, like they're doing with www.vivaco.in. But there is so much inertia in existing standards, something like that would have to be it's own darknet.

       

  6. Prove your innocence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If I have nothing to hide, then they have no reason to spy on me. If they're making me prove that I have nothing to hide, then I must not be innocent.

    The moral of this story is "prove your innocence". That's what mass surveillance really is -- an attack on the basic principle of innocent before proven guilty. If that sounds like something a third-world dictatorship would do, it's because that's exactly what third-world dictatorships do.

    1. Re:Prove your innocence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're not doing anything illegal yet but we're watching you just in case you break any laws in the future!

    2. Re:Prove your innocence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're not doing anything illegal yet but we're watching you just in case you break any laws in the future!

      ... or in case anything you're currently doing becomes retroactively illegal in the future.

    3. Re:Prove your innocence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mass surveillance is not just a tool of third-world dictators. The truest masters of this craft are first world democracies.

    4. Re:Prove your innocence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It shows that the people interested in gaining coercive authority over others (those are the ones who get into the business of government) are of the same mindset no matter where they come from.

    5. Re:Prove your innocence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or in case they need to manufacture a justification for silencing a dissenter.

  7. Meh nothing to worry about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's extremely easy to circumvent using tor bridge relays. Or you can simply use any ssh host outside turkey by doing 'ssh -D 9090 @' and add `Socks4Proxy localhost:9090` to your torrc file.

    1. Re:Meh nothing to worry about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it's extremely easy to circumvent, why doesn't the TOR software do it by default?

  8. Hooray for Fake News! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > They just went as far as demanding a German school in Turkey to ban any mention or celebration of Christmas.

    Oh look. The truth isn't anything like what you are claiming.
    What a surprise!

    But the school disputed the media's version of events, in particular an assertion that the school's choir had to cancel its appearance at the German Consulate's traditional Christmas concert in Istanbul.

    In a statement, the school said it was allowed to take place under the supervision of the Turkish education ministry and with individual pupils' parental permission - but that the teachers pulled out of the appearance without giving a reason.

    The statement concluded: "it must be asked who these provocations are useful for. It is clear they do not serve Turkish-German relations."
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38364817

    1. Re:Hooray for Fake News! by scsirob · · Score: 1

      Ever heard of "damage control"? Surely state officials will deny any such thing.

      --
      To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
    2. Re:Hooray for Fake News! by Desler · · Score: 1

      What exactly would Germany gain from lying about this? Sounds like you're just unable to admit you fell for a lie.

    3. Re:Hooray for Fake News! by vel-ex-tech · · Score: 1

      Yep, just like the misunderstanding you might get that Dearborn, MI isn't under Sharia law by actually going there! Don't trust real life! It's fake! Dearborn, MI is under Sharia law in real reality!

      That act they put on whenever you drive through town where they don't jihad on you is just "damage control!" When you have lunch or dinner at one of the restaurants and they don't behead you for being a gay faggot, it's all just "damage control!" All just an act to hide SHARIA LAW!

      Now, when you go to Holland on the other side of Michigan, on the other hand, and they harass you for being a gay faggot and run you out of town, that's Christian so it's ok.

  9. APK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Turkey's President Erdogan and the ruling AKP party

    Haha, read that as "Turkey's President Erdogan and the ruling APK party."

    1. Re:APK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Turkey's President Erdogan and the ruling AKP party

      Haha, read that as "Turkey's President Erdogan and the ruling APK party."

      Isn`t that ironic? An AC seems to be the most famous Slashdot user. Who would have thought, it figures...

    2. Re:APK by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Did Sedar Argic ever deploy any /etc/host files?

    3. Re:APK by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      There are entire hosts of Turks in Turkey, right?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  10. More Fake News from the Alt-White Crowd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Nope!

    Turkish school's Christmas 'ban' a misunderstanding, says Germany

    Reports that a German-backed international school in Istanbul had scrapped Christmas festivities briefly caused outrage on Sunday and Monday, before the German foreign office said there had been a misunderstanding and that the school was allowed to teach Christmas traditions after all.

    Set up in 1884, Istanbul Lisesi is a Turkish-German bilingual state school attended solely by Turkish students but partly backed by the German government. Thirty-five German teachers at the school are paid for by German taxpayers, but the headteacher is nominated directly by the education ministry in Ankara.

    According to Spiegel Online, several teachers at the school said they had been told to no longer teach about German Christmas traditions in their classes, as well as being told to remove advent calendars from the classrooms.

    “We don’t understand the surprising decision by the management of the Istanbul Lisesi,” said the German foreign ministry in an initial statement. “It is too bad that the good tradition of pre-Christmas intercultural exchanges at the school with a long German-Turkish tradition has been suspended. We are of course taking this up with our Turkish partners.”

    The school denied the ban, which was first reported by the respected German news agency dpa and followed up the media in Germany and abroad.

    “The reports in German media about restrictions on Christmas festivities of German teachers do not reflect reality,” it said. “A concert was cancelled by the German teachers in question without explanation. There is no question of the school or its management placing an obstacle in its way or prohibiting it.”

    Mustafa Yenerolu, an MP with the ruling AKP, also denied the claims, saying “such false reports do nothing for Turkey-Germany relations”.

    A spokesperson for the German foreign ministry said on Monday afternoon that there was no “ban” on teaching Christmas at the school after all and that “hopefully all misunderstandings have been resolved”. By then, many German politicians had reacted with fury to the initial reports.

    Julia Klöckner, a deputy chair of Angela Merkel’s Christian Democratic party, said the incident was a sign of Turkey closing itself off from the outside world: “Those who want to restrain free thinking in this way are so ignorant, they must be capable of worse.”

    Sevim Dadelen, a politician with Germany’s Left party, told Tagesspiegel the government must “immediately summon the Turkish ambassador and send a note of protest to Ankara”.

    The Greens’ education policy spokesman, Özcan Mutlu, said the reports were “simply shocking”.

    Andreas Scheuer, the general secretary of the CSU – Merkel’s Bavarian allies – said the reports were “new proof that [President Recep Tayyip] Erdoan’s Turkey is burning all bridges with Europe”.

    Christmas is part of Germany, and that applies too for a German school abroad, Scheuer told the Funke regional media group.

    Relations between Ankara and Berlin have been strained in the wake of the failed military coup in July, with Germany repeatedly expressing concern over the scope of a massive crackdown on Erdoan’s opponents.

    Developments in Turkey have a strong resonance in Germany, home to a 3-million-strong ethnic Turkish population, the legacy of a massive “guest worker” programme in the 1960s and 70s.

    1. Re:More Fake News from the Alt-White Crowd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope!

      ...

      The Guardian?!?!?! Got a responsible source?

      Why are you falling for FAKE news?

  11. Help people in Turkey access Tor by Shane_Optima · · Score: 4, Informative

    TFS neglects to mention that anyone with a halfway decent internet connection can help people in countries like Turkey evade censors by running a Tor bridge. It appears to be extremely simple to set up. Note that this is a hidden entry node and not an exit node, so your ISP isn't going to be sending you nasty letters.

    Yes, there ss an open moral question there given the significant number of nefarious uses of Tor. However, I suspect most of those users aren't going to bother with a bridge... and I happen to think that free speech is something that's worth fighting for. You know, the real thing. Criticism of politicians. Coverage of news events that are being actively suppressed by government censors. This is about actual free speech by any sane definition.

    1. Re:Help people in Turkey access Tor by johanw · · Score: 1

      Not really that simple after they dumped Vidalia.

    2. Re:Help people in Turkey access Tor by Shane_Optima · · Score: 1

      Can't you run TBB as a relay? It's been a few years since I've looked into it. (My current pipe is way crappy to use as a relay, bridge or otherwise, otherwise I'd have looked into this sooner.)

      I'm a bit surprised about Vidalia. Would've thought there would be a stronger push to make it easy for people to run relays, but forcing them to run a full Firefox GUI if they want an easy option seems a bit wasteful.

    3. Re:Help people in Turkey access Tor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      TFS neglects to mention that anyone with a halfway decent internet connection can help people in countries like Turkey evade censors by running a Tor bridge. It appears to be extremely simple to set up. Note that this is a hidden entry node and not an exit node, so your ISP isn't going to be sending you nasty letters.

      Part of the problem is getting those bridges and Tor for that matter. I'm in Turkey and literate enough to follow tor-mirrors, but on a high level for someone new getting Tor is hard (Torproject.org is blocked by my ISP). Getting bridges is no less easier if you can't read from the base source. The ISP managed to block Tor even when I use bridges (I have to update those every month or so but even then big brother learns).

      Though on the positive side I'm sure the Tor folk will find a solution... and I'm really curious to see what they come up with for this 'chicken or egg' first problem about getting Tor to the masses.

    4. Re:Help people in Turkey access Tor by Shane_Optima · · Score: 1

      That sounds like an issue with how the Tor people are doling out the bridges. (One alternative being that Turkey's intelligence agencies are capable enough to do traffic analysis to deduce the identity of bridges located in other countries, which seems unlikely.)

      A more robust system would be penpal-like, with communication between the bridge provider and user to (at least tentatively) verify legitimacy. The bridges wouldn't be rotated; they would be kept secret. But on top of this, on could build a F2F network to allow bridge sharing.

  12. Hello, EU? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    You still want that wannabe dictator to join? Seriously, if that asshat is getting in, I'll find a way to get out!

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Hello, EU? by johanw · · Score: 1

      Not even Merkel would push for that now, because she knows that if she did that the next German elections would make AfD able to run government with a absolute majority.

    2. Re:Hello, EU? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Unless you believe the "facts" of the UK's Leave campaigns, Turkey's got almost zero chance of joining the EU as it fails to meet almost all their requirements, even assuming the Turkish population want to join (polls suggest not). Doing shit like this is one of many reasons the EU won't allow them in.

    3. Re: Hello, EU? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The EU might talk big but they have to keep realpolitik in mind and realpolitik says Erdogan holds all the cards now. It may change but as of now Brussels can huff and puff and sound scary (not that it would fool anyone) but that's it.

    4. Re:Hello, EU? by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2

      The EU doesnt want to let Turkey in, hence the pause in the process announced a few weeks ago...

  13. Re:"RoP" apologist mods are here! by OneHundredAndTen · · Score: 0

    I see the "Religion of Peace" apologist moderators are here!

    The Abrahamic religions (Christianity, Islam, Judaism) have nothing to do with peace, and everything to do with conquest and forced conversion. They are among the most obnoxious creations of humanity, Christianity and Islam, especially - Judaism, at least, tries to keep its mumbo-jumbo to itself.

  14. After hosts kill 8 botnets this week? I rule! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: It's not ez being "world-class" https://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10010777&cid=53510613/ & it's not my fault unidentifiable trolls are turkey "ne'er-do-wells", lol!

    * :)

    APK

    P.S.=> As far as "famous"? I've done my share in the art & science of computing to decent acclaim in publications, trade show results + commercially sold ware I wrote - you do get back what you put into things in life... apk

  15. Memo to Turkish politicians: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If your citizens are criticizing the way you're running the country, then maybe you suck at being leaders and should step aside for someone else. 'Silencing' your citizens is a dick move at best; you're not that far away from being a complete murderous asshole like al-Assad. Stop shitting on your own people, Turkey.

  16. Use a VPN as your first hop by Captain+Scurvy · · Score: 1

    There are still a number of VPN providers that still offer service in Turkey, and using a VPN as your first hop should obfuscate your Tor activity and allow you to connect. It's not necessarily a bad idea to do this anyway, even if Tor is not blocked in your country.

  17. Re:"RoP" apologist mods are here! by lucasnate1 · · Score: 1

    While Judaism is not missionary, it can be very cruel towards its own people. I.e. gays deserve death, circumsision, lack of women's rights, forced rest in sabbath, etc. Also, part of the reason Judaism is not missionary is because it is very racist. Jews are considered to be "the chosen people", you don't want to mix in too many "goys" with that. Even today, there are many religious jews who will tell you that there are different level of souls for different creatures. The soul of a human is higher than the soul of an animal, and the soul of the jew is higher than the soul of a goy.

    p.s. To all people that are going to accuse me of not knowing Judaism and/or being antisemitic, I'm both an Israeli and a Jew.

  18. Russian envoy assassinated by unixisc · · Score: 1

    Well, they just assassinated the Russian envoy to Turkey. US needs to pull out of NATO before it's forced to either side w/ the wrong side here - Turkey, or show NATO as the feckless organization that it's been since the Cold War ended

    1. Re:Russian envoy assassinated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Based on your opening sentence your second reads as if you think Russia is the correct side...

    2. Re:Russian envoy assassinated by unixisc · · Score: 1

      WRT Islamic powers, it is! I'm not an anti-Russia troll like John McCain, Lindsay Graham, Marco Rubio or any of the Democrats. I disagree w/ them re: what they are doing in the Donbass, but am okay w/ the annexation of Crimea. On the Syrian war, none of the parties there are clean, but it's more useful to perpetuate that civil war than have either side win. Now it's at a stage where there will rapidly be a direct face-off w/ ISIS.

    3. Re:Russian envoy assassinated by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      You are ok with Russia annexing parts of other countries and fomenting a rebellion in the same country?

      What crack are you on where this is acceptable from a former superpower?

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  19. Re:"RoP" apologist mods are here! by unixisc · · Score: 1

    I'm a gentile, but FWIW, there's one major difference b/w Jews and Muslims here

    As you stated, Jews think of themselves as the chosen people. Doesn't really affect me one way or the other, since they're not trying to destroy me for not believing in Judaism. While they may think of Israel as the holy land where all Jews need to converge, they're not on a worldwide lebensraum campaign trying to either convert or uproot all gentiles.

    That's very different from Islam, which got to where it is w/ a series of wars, starting in the 7th century, which gave them North Africa and West Asia, and running that right until the 19th century. And in this case, Arabs are the chosen people: allah only knows Arabic, the Quran is only legitimate when recited in Arabic, and prayers can only be done in Arabic. In the pecking order of Islam, the Quraysh Arabs - the tribe that Mohammed was from - is at the top, followed by all Arabs of the Arabian peninsula, then Arabs elsewhere and finally other Muslims, such as Turks, Barbers, Iranians, et al. Which is why Sudan had its war in Darfur, which was a genocide of Black Muslims by Arab Muslims. It also describes why Iraq and Syria had their campaigns against the Kurds.

    While it would be nice if a religion thought of all people as equal, I don't hold it against them if they don't, provided they don't have malevolent designs against the 'other'.

  20. Re:"RoP" apologist mods are here! by lucasnate1 · · Score: 0

    You are correct that it doesn't affect you. It does affect people who live in Israel. Specifically, secular jews who don't want to have tradition controlling their lives (Israel does not have separation of church and state, which causes rabbis to control divorce, corrupted kosher license taxing, forced rest in Saturdays, and probably others). However, it's not only secular jews, Arabs that live in Israel are also suffering from various forms of presecution. There are jews that burn mosques. A few years ago an Arab youth was beaten by several Israeli youths. He was a vegetable for more than 12 months. Out of the guys that beat him, the one that got the worse punishment got 8 months in jail. If it was a jewish youth who was beaten, things would be very different. The state also manipulates budgets so that jewish insititutes get more money than arab ones. Calls of "Kill all arabs" are not uncommon in Israel, that's not the kind of thing for which we arrest people here. Ofcourse that when someone calls "kill all jews", it's different.

    I do agree with you that Islam is probably more dangerous to the world than judaism, since, as you said, Islam is more colonialistic. I'm just saying that for people living under jewish rule, Judaism may become just as shitty as Islam, especially if things keep going the way they are (Israel is becoming more and more like its neighbors). Then again, that's not your problem, but ours :(

  21. What good is Tor if it's so easy to block? by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    I guess it doesn't blend so well with the rest of the noise...

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  22. Didn't see this coming by lhowaf · · Score: 1

    I thought technology would be liberating. The Internet would give anyone access to the whole of human knowledge.
    It isn't working out like that.
    Instead, technology is enabling repressive governments all over the world to maintain near-constant surveillance on their good people. It isn't about religion or political ideology. It is a struggle for power.
    The people are losing.

  23. Someone brought it up... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    in the 6.0.8 TBB comments the other day.

    It has been going on for at least a week, maybe two and started with the published proxies, then encrypted traffic in general.

    Worse yet: it seems like the West is on-track to try something similiar in the near future. Democracy, Freedom of (insert right), etc my ass.

    captcha was 'monopoly'. Used in a sentence: 'The government has a monopoly on my ability to exercise my freedoms.'

  24. FUD - Christmas is not banned at the school by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.dw.com/en/german-sc...

    Christmas is a part of many cultures, so it must be taught at least as such (which is all that I want my kids to know about it). They deserve to be taught about the Winter Solstice and Buddhist festivals for the same amount of time, if any mention of religion happens, IMHO.

    Turkey is an extremely moderate Muslim country. Erdogan is afraid and he does have huge problems all around, but there aren't any easy solutions when there are external wars with neighbors and internal wars with fundamental Muslims wanting more Islam in daily life and European moderates who can take or leave all religions.

    I have faith in the Turkish people to figure this out for themselves. If they need help, NATO needs to be there. I am very, very, concerned that I haven't been able to reach any of my Turkish friends for about 4 months. They are probably keeping their heads down, since their family runs a liquor store. Yes, Turkey isn't like most other Islamic countries.

    Though last time I was in Istanbul, we did get tear gassed. The army wasn't aiming at us, but we were down hill from some protesters and the gas stays close to the ground.

  25. Russia, Ukraine & Syria by unixisc · · Score: 1

    As far as Crimea goes, it's ethnically Russian, and historically always a part of Russia - including that brief period following the treaty of Brest-Litovsk that gave Ukraine its independence for the first time. Crimea wasn't a part of Ukraine then: it was gifted to Ukraine in the 60s by Nikita Krushchyev, despite its population being Russian, not Ukrainian. Russia wanted it back after 1991 but did not press the issue until Ukraine passed a law making Ukrainian the sole official language. Which is well within their rights and even makes sense, given that they are Ukraine, not Russia, but then they lose the right to Crimea. That said, I do not support Russian incursions into the Donbass.

    On the larger issue of Russian threats to Eastern Europe, it's been badly handled by the Obama administration when they agreed to scrap the missile defense shield. The US should re-engage and build up the defense for all these countries, including Ukraine, but like Trump says, they should foot that bill. The US does have both common interests w/ Russia - not just in fighting ISIS, but joint projects like the international space station, and they have their differences (but the Mid East shouldn't be one of them). Russia should do what the Soviets did until 1956 and be pro Israel like then, while the US should stop categorizing Sunni countries like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey, et al as its allies, while Russia should do the same viz Iran and Syria.