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How A Massive India Call Center Swindled 15,000 Americans (nytimes.com)
An FBI agent based in India says the country has now become a major hub for call-center fraud, blaming "a demographic bulge of computer-savvy, young, English-speaking job seekers; a vast call-center culture; super-efficient technology; and what can only be described as ingenuity." The Justice Depatment recently indicted one company for scamming "hundreds of millions of dollars" from over 15,000 victims, placing more than 1.8 million phone calls to Americans, and Slashdot reader retroworks brings an update:
The New York Times has an interesting blow-by-blow story on two India tech center employees who informed on their call center fraud operation, which targeted Americans (especially recent immigrants) with fraudulent IRS calls and other scams. [May be paywalled; free version here.] The building was surrounded by police, phone lines cut. Eventually 630 of the employees were released, and charges were brought against 70 managers and executives of the call center.
The operation filled a seven-story high-rise, and the Times reports that after the raid, "fraudulent IRS calls to Americans dropped 95% percent, according to the Better Business Bureau." But they add that one former employee believes the scams will continue. Within weeks of the raid, he'd been offered a nearly identical job: calling Americans and claiming that their computer was infected with a virus.
The operation filled a seven-story high-rise, and the Times reports that after the raid, "fraudulent IRS calls to Americans dropped 95% percent, according to the Better Business Bureau." But they add that one former employee believes the scams will continue. Within weeks of the raid, he'd been offered a nearly identical job: calling Americans and claiming that their computer was infected with a virus.
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Sometimes the tables are turned. This is hilarious and sad. I can't decide how to feel about it, honestly.
Indian. Like the ediduhs.
I feel bad for people who fall for it, but the two times I was called for similar grifting, it was a hilarious fun conversation.
"Old man yells at systemd"
Bunker busters - lots of them.
Level one of them and I guarantee the rest will find more honest ways of making a living.
The insidious ones now popping up are really clever IVR calls with recorded voices of a perky white woman (sometimes man) with a generic accent. She giggles, pauses, apologizes for the delay claiming phone problems and then asks if I can hear her ok.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
Really? Well who konws what will happen in future, so many scams and frauds.
Perhaps I'm mistaken, but isn't the FBI restricted to US jurisdiction? I grew up with the understanding that they were basically a domestic police force on the national level.
I'm assuming I am mistaken, please feel free to give me further understanding on how the FBI can be in India.
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IF it is a crime here, happening there, hurting U.S., THEN they have 'jurisdiction'. Under who's law may be debatable.
Its simple, if the caller ID does not show you are from someone I know, then you are considered a scammer until you can prove otherwise
If I hear an Indian accent the call will be hung up, that accent has become no more trustworthy than a "Canadian Pharmacy" from Russia
I hang up immediately on hearing an indian accent, it's as simple as that.
"charges were brought against 70 managers and executives of the call center. " How refreshing that the suits got charged. Maybe the FBI can learn how to do that in the US.
IF it is a crime here, happening there, hurting U.S., THEN they have 'jurisdiction'. Under who's law may be debatable.
Don’t be a moron, the FBI has no jurisdiction in India. He/She is probably an attaché to the embassy coordinating with local law enforcement.
That may be very well, but they don't have any authority to operate outside the US in a foreign country as a law enforcement agency, unless that country ascribes them the authority - the FBI arresting someone in India would be simple kidnapping, and the agents involved would be committing a crime.
So its not debatable at all - the crime here (fraud) is still being committed in India, while simultaneously being committed in the US. That doesn't mean the FBI can fly to India and arrest someone - however, many police forces have attachments with foreign forces, embedding their own agents in other countries forces and legally gaining the same powers of the local police force.
The IRS sure as hell will call you incessantly if you owe them money and have been late paying them. They just won't ask for payment over the phone like the scammers do.
Many of my clients are older people who simply wouldn't know tech savvy if you drowned them in it.
A while back, one of my clients' wives calls us and tells us he's on the phone with this tech support company in India and they're asking for several hundred dollars to remove a virus.
I told her to pull their cablemodem out of the wall and then hang up with the guy. Don't even discuss it with her husband (as it'd give the guy from "wherever" a chance to do something to the machine).
Once he was disconnected I had him hang up and explained the scam to him, while the call center guy tried calling back.
I then pointed out that he already had both Kaspersky Antivirus and Malwarebytes on there.
And on the off chance he was infected, I had him pull down a bootable rescue CD and scan that way.
Saved him several hundred bucks and possibly getting his machine infected.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
How will I keep my compurtor free of viruses now that all my tech support is gone. It only cost me 300 dollars a year and they removed all my viruses and cleaned my pc better than anyone else here does!
Uh, you admitted to committing crimes and didn't cut a deal so you're basically screwed if you decide to apply for a visa.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
The United States has a process that is known as "Extraordinary Rendition" whereby the US government kidnaps a person in another country for the sole purpose of placing them on trial for a crime in the US. Depending on the crime, the US may ask the government of the country the suspect is in for them to be extradited (think Kim Dotcom - still underway). Or they can go in and kidnap them. The UN considers this to be a crime against humanity.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition
Why the hell would the FBI need an informant. It's not like these operations work in secret - they call people for god's sake. All the FBI needed to do was to wait for a call from "the Microsoft support center" and trace it.
Nullius in verba
Huh, and no mention of CenturyLink's costumer service.
CenturyLink, the company with a logo that resembles a green anus.
I get an average of 2-3 scammers calling me each week. 300 million people in the USA times 3 is around 1 billion calls a week...
Don't be a moron, if they're committing a crime in the US, then it's the FBIs jurisdiction to work with the Indian government to have them extradited to be prosecuted here. Now, if India chooses not to extradite, that's their own prerogative, but the FBI working with their government for extradition is exactly what they do.
Also look up MLAT.
They didn't commit the crime here. They committed it in India assuming India has a law on it. The idea you can be extradited to another country for a crime their that isn't a crime here is dangerous. Do you wan to be extradited to Iran for posting pictures of your wife online? In Iran that's pornographic and they'll put you to death for it.
I wish other government would start kidnapping people in the US, particularly judges, police officers, FBI, and similar as a retaliatory measure for participation in these criminal acts. The US should not go unpunished for infringing on other countries territorial integrity.
Under who is law? WTF is that supposed to mean?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
My bank outsourced to an indian call center and the next time I called them for something I asked where I was calling. The guy evaded my questions so I dropped my account of 20+ years to a bank that uses local people. I have to wait a tiny bit longer for them to answer but they actually answer my questions. So long CIBC.
If there a lot of dancing going on in those boiler rooms? I've seen India on the TV, so I think the guy and girl were dancing along with many other dancers...
When a massive American building fleeces thousands of young Americans it's OK as long as the building is called a university...
If I'm posting it on servers located in Iran with the express intent of serving people in Iran, then I would expect it as I've committed a crime in Iran. And if the US government opts to extradite me, then sucks to be me. This is no different, they're defrauding people in the US by calling them on their local phones. Now, if India decides they don't agree that these people did anything wrong and refuses the extradition, then good for them. But if the Indian government thinks they did break the law (btw fraud is illegal in India), then India can extradite and it sucks to be them.
You seem to be tossing in the straw man of "imposing laws all over the world". This is not the case here. The Indian government has to agree they broke the law, and agree to extradite them for them to face any prosecution of any kind. And usually to agree to extraditions the local government has to agree that what the person did was illegal. Again, fraud is illegal in India. Now, Russia, despite it being well known a lot of cyber crime comes out of there refuses to extradite even though those crimes are illegal locally, but because of their refusal to extradite, they go unpunished.
This isn't complex. I have to assume you're being purposely obtuse. Quit it. It's annoying.
Someone works at the the bank call center, say, and then records details to pass on to a scam center. The Scam center now knows all sorts of details to make the scam much more effective. And targetted.
Those who worked at such a place of employment deserve harsh punishment.
I am sick of the Indian scammers. PNG their ambassador to the US
Actually, why not introduce a new type of visa for criminals, and give it to any of these scammers when they ask for a visa. Then, at the port of entry, when they check in at immigration, immediately call law enforcement and hand them over
Like selling the travel package for $99?
When will that end? Or do we have to ship India another 100 million?
He is not being obtuse he is being an idiot. He and his fellow numbskulls need to go study the subject of extradition treaties before they further pollute the environment with their stink of idiocy.
... for any bank with CC outside the US because I am afraid of identity theft.
Get an answering machine. Let whoever call you leave a message. This will cut down on a lot of unsolicited calls.
The insidious ones now popping up are really clever IVR calls with recorded voices of a perky white woman (sometimes man) with a generic accent. She giggles, pauses, apologizes for the delay claiming phone problems and then asks if I can hear her okay.
I write about technoloty and advanced computing in Noavard, I place for pros.
New York Times, late as usual, reporting on October's news: http://arstechnica.com/tech-po... NYT should leave tech reporting to tech sites. Remember what happened to WP when it reported on hacking?
Rehash of https://yro.slashdot.org/story/16/10/27/2243228/feds-charge-61-people-in-indian-based-irs-phone-scam-case .
A few facts:
1. The bust was done by Indian police - US authorities were informed afterwards - http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/06/news/india-irs-scam-arrests/
2. India is no longer the call center capital of the world - that honour now belongs to Philippines - http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-philippines-economy-20150202-story.html
A few wishes:
1. The scam was perpetrated with the help of some US based scamsters - they must be brought to book.
2. The entities involved in the scam should impart 3 months of free computer training to all the affected apart from returning all the stolen money.
"We own this house."
No you don't. Try not paying your municipal/county taxes and we'll see who actually owns your house.
This happened to the old age father of a friend, who gave them a continuous authority on a debit card for "support". Downloaded and came in using TeamViewer, and messed with his PC. Traced the domain name back (set as a private individual, anonymised); got the registrar to de-anonymise their whois record due to being a commercial company. Traced the resulting contact details back to UK Companies House, where the guy was an Indian national who was one of two directors of 12 companies set up in a small business centre in Coventry, UK. Local Bank account received the funds. End result was that local trading standards got their bank account closed. Directors are on LinkedIn, and claim to have 600 telesales operatives in Kolkata, India.
Actually, why not introduce a new type of visa for criminals, and give it to any of these scammers when they ask for a visa. Then, at the port of entry, when they check in at immigration, immediately call law enforcement and hand them over
Once they go to the US embassy you could arrest them there if you wanted to, no need to wait.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
"... Within weeks of the raid, he'd been offered a nearly identical job: calling Americans and claiming that their computer was infected with a virus."
If the police didn't arrest them, they damned well better keep tabs on them so the can track who hires them.
by asking, in explicit terms, if it was true that the caller enjoyed carnal relationships with domesticated livestock, specifically goats. When he stumbled and asked me to repeat the question, I did. Slowly. Clearly. Profanely.
He never denied it. He just hung up. I assume that because he did not address the question, that he and his coworkers are, in fact, Goat-f#ckers.
I don't mind playing the ugly American role, if it gives just one of these scammers a moment of discomfort.
And they haven't called back.
Your bigotry, cultural insensitivity, and hairy privilege have been noted.
That is all user 869701. We have your number.
Even TFS didn't make that claim. They said they were "investigating". Which covers a multitude of events short of barging in with guns drawn and handcuffs at the ready.
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That's not too bad a return rate for a scam.
Therefore the scamming will continue.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Part of the problem is that American tech, for lack of a better word, sucks. And that is most likely by design.
Caller ID, as offered to paying customers, is so badly broken as to be completely and totally useless. That is what allows these overseas jerks make it display a continuously-changing list of American phone numbers. The 'ignore' list in my cell phone is already hundreds of numbers long, and the calls keep rolling in.
When will a critical eye ever be turned to the American carriers who not only allow this to continue, but likely also profit from it? Even though the consumer-facing side of it is completely fraudulent, you can bet that their billing system knows exactly where these calls are originating. When will they held to task for their active part in literally millions of crimes? Apparently the people of India don't care that their national reputation is being driven straight into the dirt- I wish there were some technical means to completely cut off that entire sub-continent from the rest of the Internet and phone system. But if the American companies had even half of an ounce of desire, they could make it so that these calls could easily be identified and blocked, they don't and probably never will until they are forced to do so.
No they will not. The IRS do not call taxpayers.
http://www.acetonestudio.com
The calls don't come from India without going through American phone lines to Americans in America.
Fucking obtuse.
I just have to ask, are you claiming that you think fraud and extortion isn't a crime in India?
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?