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Verizon Wireless Wades Right Back Into the Net Neutrality Debate With Fios Deal (theverge.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Verge: Verizon is taking a page out of AT&T's book by zero rating its Fios cable TV service for all Verizon Wireless customers. That means that if you purchase your mobile data plan from Verizon Wireless and your cable TV plan from Fios, you can now use the Fios Mobile app to stream live channels and on-demand shows and not have it count against your monthly data cap. (It should be noted that Verizon Wireless and Fios are separate subsidiaries, but both are owned by Verizon Communications.) This builds on Verizon's previous decision to zero rate its Go90 mobile app for customers of its own wireless service, which net neutrality advocates see as prioritizing its own products to the detriment of those from competitors and upstarts. One notable exception here is for customers with unlimited mobile data plans. Streaming Fios Mobile content will in fact count toward the unlimited plans' 22GB a month cap, after which Verizon will cap speeds. This caveat is not made clear in Verizon's marketing language, and instead is found only in the App Store release notes.

37 comments

  1. Leverage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now someone find a way to leverage this, by funneling one's own data in a way it looks like Fios to Verizon.

    Bonus if it involves a whistle included as a gift in a cereal package, or something.

    (A more explicit way to state my sentiment: as the whole world seems to be evolving into robber barons, the only recourse left for the rest of us is to become subversive)

    1. Re: Leverage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You misspelled "first".

    2. Re:Leverage? by rmdingler · · Score: 1
      It is strange that men should take up crime when there are so many legal ways to be dishonest. -unknown

      The neutrality of the US internet will remain endangered as long as the interests of its users clash with the moneyed interests of corporations.

      Thank goodness we have a caring, representative government to protect us...

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    3. Re:Leverage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Thank goodness we have a caring, representative government to protect us...

      My sympathy is with you, and I'm seriously willing to host a refugee from the USA... until the psychopaths over here in EU take over (they are trying hard, believe me).

  2. Unlimited?! by deepershade6211 · · Score: 1

    "unlimited plans' 22GB a month cap" It seems America and the rest of the world have a different idea as to the meaning of the word 'unlimited'...

    1. Re:Unlimited?! by cdrudge · · Score: 1

      After 22GB, your connection may be throttled if you are on a congested cell. So you can continue to use data so it's still "unlimited" for some definitions of the word.

    2. Re:Unlimited?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After 22GB, your connection will be throttled

      FTFY

    3. Re:Unlimited?! by Plus1Entropy · · Score: 1

      Has the rest of the world broken the laws of physics? Due to finite bandwidth and finite time no plan could ever be unlimited.

      If you understand Channel Capacity then you'd know that even with infinite bandwidth you can't transmit infinite data unless you also have an infinite signal-to-noise ratio.

      --
      Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
    4. Re:Unlimited?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He said unlimited, not infinite.

    5. Re:Unlimited?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Has the rest of the world broken the laws of physics?

      Don't be dense. The only people viewing "unlimited" to mean "can break the laws of physics" are the same people pushing for unlimited to allow for "active throttling because we said so". Everyone else realizes that "unlimited" means "up to x% speed at any given time, where x% equals 1 divided by the number of current users".

    6. Re:Unlimited?! by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      *to 3G speeds.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    7. Re:Unlimited?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean lying scum American's who have no consumer protections definitions of the word.

    8. Re:Unlimited?! by sims+2 · · Score: 1

      Throttle applies only to hotspot and tethering use after 10GB.
      In which case it's throttled to 600kbps calling it 3G speeds is an insult to 3G my cellphone tops out on EVDO rev A and it can do 1.55Mbps.

      The distinction between throttling and deprioritization is very important.

      With deprio your speeds will be relatively slower if your are in a congested area.

      With throttle your totally fked for the rest of the month no matter what.

      --
      Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
    9. Re:Unlimited?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please, the term unlimited when referring to cellular data usage has ALWAYS referred to the amount of data allowed to be transferred before incurring overage charges. It has never (until it became a convenient political and legislative club) meant that your speed would not be rate limited.

    10. Re:Unlimited?! by Plus1Entropy · · Score: 1

      Exactly. We are already applying a less-than-literal definition of the word "unlimited" to this particular situation. Discussing to what degree the word is less-than-literal is to engage in a pissing contest.

      --
      Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
    11. Re:Unlimited?! by Plus1Entropy · · Score: 1

      unlimited
      adjective
              not limited or restricted in terms of number, quantity, or extent.
              "the range of possible adaptations was unlimited"
              synonyms: inexhaustible, limitless, illimitable, boundless, immeasurable, incalculable, untold, infinite, endless,
      bottomless, never-ending

      --
      Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
  3. Not really a problem by Solandri · · Score: 0

    As long as you allow AT&T to provide U-Verse/DSL service anywhere there's Verizon FIOS/DSL, and allow Verizon to provide FIOS/DSL service anywhere there's AT&T U-Verse/DSL service.

    The problem isn't really zero rating. The problem is lack of competition. Net neutrality is just a way to keep the ISPs honest if you insist on letting them keep their local cable/phone monopolies. If you get rid of the monopolies and allow competition, then you don't need to enforce net neutrality because any ISP which intentionally degrades (say) Netflix service will just drive Netflix customers to a competing ISP. Intentionally degrading service only works if the customers can't flee to a competing service.

    1. Re:Not really a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes, it is a *big* problem. It is not just competition, it is an extremely relevant barrier of entry. You want to ensure the second one is not a mountain ridge when possible.

      True net neutrality ensures the mountain ridges will be a lot less prevalent for high-bandwidth Internet-based services, especially when coupled to the cloud (which reshaped a truly daunting mountain-range-class barrier of entry, i.e. access to large amounts of storage, memory and computing resources, into a much more reasonable small hill on the scale of storage, memory and computing resources most businesses will need).

    2. Re:Not really a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Congress would never allow for competition. That's anti-free-market!

    3. Re:Not really a problem by ausekilis · · Score: 1

      If 'pro' is the opposite of 'con', whats the opposite of 'progress'?

    4. Re:Not really a problem by squiggleslash · · Score: 2

      I can't even begin to quantify the confusion of ideas needed to believe there's no problem with AT&T and Verizon Wireless forcing customers to pay for Netflix, Vudu, Hulu, Fandango/GO, Amazon Video, but zero-rating their own services, if the two companies are allowed to own a duopoly.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    5. Re:Not really a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      congress?

  4. Their greed is so magnificent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They just can't help themselves. If CEOs were in charge of home planning, they'd build a gated neighborhood and then charge people to visit.

    1. Re:Their greed is so magnificent by CompMD · · Score: 1

      You just described Pebble Beach, CA.

  5. IF only we could get FIOS. . . . by Salgak1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    . . . . Verizon has been promising to expand FIOS to my area. For 10 years. And hasn't expanded coverage area ANYWHERE near me for 8 years.

    And for some obscure reason, their expansion stopped right at the border of Comcast, Charter, and Time-Warner coverage areas.

    Funny, that. . . .but, of course, nothing will ever be proven. . .

  6. Zero rating by nine-times · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... and this is the problem with "zero rating". When T-Mobile makes makes a whole bunch of music and video services free without a clear and obvious bias for a particular company, people asked, "What's wrong with that?" and it was harder to point to a clear problem. For many consumers, those services being free seemed like a benefit with no real downside.

    But I think it becomes much more clear when a wireless carrier starts zero-rating their own pay services. It's a private company leveraging its own control over public infrastructure to push people into using the services *they want you to use*. Make FIOS video streaming "free" so you will pay for that service, and then why would you pay for Netflix, Hulu, or whoever else? With those services, the data usage costs money when you use them on your mobile.

    Though it may not be technically/legally an anti-trust violation, this move is ant-competitive at it's core. It violates the "free market forces" that would allow consumers to pay for the best service based on its merits. This is why people in favor of free markets should also favor net neutrality.

    1. Re:Zero rating by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      Zero rating really isn't, by itself, a problem; what's a problem is what you're choosing to zero-rate. People were kinda in an uproar about T-Mobile doing it because they felt they should be - but actually T'Mo was using it entirely legitimately, making an application practical and possible that would otherwise be impossible to deliver without causing massive problems for everyone else.

      (And the funny thing was that T-Mobile was following a precedent that Slashdotters had agreed with in the past, when virtually every ISP decided to block port 25, even though the latter was vastly more draconian and broke far more things than T-Mobile's throttling was doing.)

      As long as people focus on the zero rating part, rather than discriminating by source, the debate ends up going off track. It's the discrimination that needs to be tackled, whether it's throttling a rival to make their service unusable, or allowing your customers to use services they buy from related companies for free while charging for services from rivals.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    2. Re:Zero rating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Still not seeing the problem here. Previously, all your data usage counted against your data limit. Now some of it doesn't. That's a net win overall. If you didn't have or want VZFios, your situation has not changed in the least. If you did, your service just got better. Who loses here?

  7. Not a Net Neutrality Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Net Neutrality is not neutrality, just like the Affordable Care Act is not about Affordable Care (just the opposite, as experience has now demonstrated).

    Nothing in the "Net Neutrality" rules requires actual Net Neutrality. It only requires neutrality of peering. It was never about consumers.

  8. Split the pipe from the content by sjbe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Net neutrality is just a way to keep the ISPs honest if you insist on letting them keep their local cable/phone monopolies. If you get rid of the monopolies and allow competition, then you don't need to enforce net neutrality

    You will never get competition in last mile delivery because the economics of it make it impractical.

    What needs to happen is that the companies providing the pipe should have an arms length relationship with any content providers. Comcast should be able to provide me a pipe to my house or to provide me content over that pipe but not both. Comcast cannot both own NBC and transmit its content over Comcast data lines. Given that it is economically impractical to have more than 1-2 data lines coming into any given dwelling it is unlikely that the local phone/cable monopolies will ever disappear. For economic reasons they are a natural monopoly because competition actually increases costs plus building and maintaining such a network is prohibitively expensive to new market entrants. So the dividing line should be pipe or content. Pick one and never cross that line. Collusion between pipe providers and content providers should be explicitly illegal and prosecutable under anti-trust laws.

  9. Not an example of net neutrality problem by marcgvky · · Score: 1, Interesting

    A violation of the principle of net neutrality would be either Fios or Verizon nerfing a non-Verizon / non-Fios service. In this case, they are just making it cheaper to consume bandwidth that remains on their backbone. Nerfing Netflix or prioritizing voice packets from another voice provider would be a violation of the net-neutral principles. Which they aren't doing.

    1. Re:Not an example of net neutrality problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No. both are examples of net-neutrality principle violation. One is just worse than the next. It is not all or none.

    2. Re:Not an example of net neutrality problem by marcgvky · · Score: 0

      We will agree to disagree. A carrier making it less expensive to carry traffic that doesn't have to traverse another carrier (ergo it reduces the carriers costs) is just capitalism, which is good. I will stipulate that it makes it _possibly_ _somewhat_ more expensive to consume off-carrier content, but that's only if you are a maniac-streamer. In which case, that's your problem.

    3. Re:Not an example of net neutrality problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bandwidth remaining on their backbone is meaningless. The infrastructure of a cellular provider has nothing to do with its backbone. The costs have almost nothing to do with the source of the data. Remember how Comcast was refusing to let Netflix install CDN within its networks, instead demanding Netflix pay to peer with them? Same thing. It's all about subsidizing their data service by preferring their own high-priced content over the competition. By zero-rating their own products, they use monopolistic position as a service provider to make their content unfairly compete with other content creators.

  10. The real problem is ... by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

    ... the argument carriers use to charge differently for various data plans is that bandwidth is a shared, finite / scarce resource. By allowing "zero rating" they're ignoring that rational. Therefore, why can't *all* data plans be flat-rate, "unlimited" and/or all data be zero-rated?

    All phone call/text/data plans are scams.

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    1. Re:The real problem is ... by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      All Verizon and AT&T plans are scams. Other operators have tended to be more consistent. T-Mobile, for example, was zero rating all video feeds (from any source) that matched a particular profile they knew wouldn't clog the network. Now that they've rolled out LTE to enough of the country, and as a result have the capacity, they're zero-rating everything, even higher bandwidth video.

      That strikes me as being consistent and reasonable.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.