Slashdot Mirror


Tesla To Raise Over $1.15 Billion To Help Offset Risk For Model 3 Production (techcrunch.com)

Tesla is looking to raise a total of around $1.15 billion from stock and convertible senior notes as a way to help "further reduce any risks" that it'll incur as it scales its business to handle its aggressive Model 3 production schedule, the company said. From a report: Tesla's decision to pad out its balance sheet with more capital was anticipated by many analysts, and a fair number of Wall Street watchers actually thought Tesla would seek more to help it grow based on recent comments made by Tesla CEO Elon Musk. The Model 3 is set to begin full production this year, with pre-production begun in February with a temporary production line pause to help get processes at its Fremont factory ready for the new vehicle. The split of the new funding efforts will see Tesla pursue $250 million in common stock offering, with $750 million raised via convertible notes due in 2022. Elon Musk himself will personally contribute by buying $25 million in Tesla stock.

86 comments

  1. Tesla To Claim $1.15 Billion Subsidy As Profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Elon Musk is truly the Iron Man of our time.

    1. Re:Tesla To Claim $1.15 Billion Subsidy As Profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What? Since when is Elon Musk an alcoholic?

    2. Re:Tesla To Claim $1.15 Billion Subsidy As Profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What? Since when does Elon Musk need a power source on his chest to prevent shrapnel from piercing his heart?

    3. Re:Tesla To Claim $1.15 Billion Subsidy As Profit by Rei · · Score: 4, Informative

      I don't think you understand what raising capital means.

      Tesla is selling stock, and the market is buying it. Capital rounds are almost unavoidable in large, rapidly growing businesses. Investors convert their ownership from a larger share in a smaller company to a (slightly) smaller share in a company that they feel will become much larger because of it. The money gained from doing so funds the scaleup.

      It has nothing in any way, shape or form to do with "subsidy". Capital rounds are capitalism in its purest form.

      --
      Stale pastry is hollow succor to one who is bereft of ostrich.
    4. Re:Tesla To Claim $1.15 Billion Subsidy As Profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      When you run your fingers through his hair, do any of the plugs come out?

    5. Re: Tesla To Claim $1.15 Billion Subsidy As Profit by Type44Q · · Score: 0

      You brought a [used tampon] to a gunfight. WTF is wrong with you?

  2. Teslas doesn't make cars, they make bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Last fall, Tesla reported a Q3 quarterly profit just before the vote to buy up failed solar city (bailing out Elon Musk who was over levered with their worthless stock and debt). At the time, I pointed out that they were playing a lot of financial tricks to get that profit to lube up shareholders prior to the vote. Some people insisted they were now profitable. Well, they're not. They reported more losses in Q4 and now they need another billion. The model 3 will be delayed, it will be more expensive than announced, and it will be plagued with quality problems. I like Tesla, but Christ, they've been sniffing their own farts for too long.

    1. Re:Teslas doesn't make cars, they make bullshit by segedunum · · Score: 1

      They've taken on far too much. The Model 3 should have happened right after the Roadster, and they should simply have iterated over it, increasing quality and reducing costs over time. The Model S, and especially the Model X, have been extremely costly and pointless diversions. Launching new models is something you do when you can put in the kind of capital investment major vehicle manufacturers are able to pump in.

      Their financial accounting is creative to say the least, even by normal standards these days. This thing is a runaway train in terms of cash burn now. It's doubtful they will ever make themselves profitable to arrest it.

    2. Re:Teslas doesn't make cars, they make bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They couldn't do the model 3 because batteries were still too expensive. It was only possible now.... which is why they did it now.

      When the batteries cost $45,000 you can't make a $35,000 car.

    3. Re:Teslas doesn't make cars, they make bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They have 500.000 orders for model 3. that's a LOT. I am guessing total value = largest preorder in history.

    4. Re:Teslas doesn't make cars, they make bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Preorders do not equal sales. Those orders right now are contingent on a particular delivery date and a particular delivery price. I believe people will be flexible on delivery date to a point, but price they may not be. And so far, historically Tesla has missed their projected price by about $30K consistently. And there may be a lot willing to drop $35K, but I'm willing to bet that the number willing to drop $65K is significantly smaller.

      And if you think the gigafactory is going to fix things, remember that there's a lot of materials that go into those batteries. And the suppliers of those materials know that there are half a million pre-orders which will stretch the material supply lines to their breaking point. I'm going to guess that material prices will shoot through the roof making it difficult to hit the price point Tesla wants. They may not end up at their usual $30K over budget, but I could believe the model 3 will have a $45K after rebates price.

    5. Re:Teslas doesn't make cars, they make bullshit by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      Few of the Model 3's purchased will be at $35k, as that is the most bare-bones model. Most will likely be in the $50-60k range. Their order risk is really minimal; the real risk is that they cannot deliver 500k cars in the next 30 months.

      But, as a fairly diversified company at this point, I don't think the risk is a deal-killer for the stock or company. While they likely paid too much for Solar City, it is a reasonable strategy and I am happy they are more integrated now. My only real concern is that they might be locked too much into the Lithium batteries and miss a step in 3-10 years when other technologies really hit the ground running. Diversification in battery technology doesn't help get affordable cars on the road, but it makes the stationary power business more sustainable on its own.

    6. Re:Teslas doesn't make cars, they make bullshit by Rei · · Score: 5, Informative

      And so far, historically Tesla has missed their projected price by about $30K consistently.

      (Citation Needed)

      The Roadster was promised at $100k. This was based on Eberhard's budgeting, not Musk's. During the development, the board (including Musk) eventually came to realize the degree to which Eberhard had fudged the numbers and all of the problems he had gotten the company into (penalties for unmeetable contracts, a stupid choice of gearbox supplier, etc), and ultimately he was fired. Their estimate at the time was that the car would end up at over $120k. However, with a lot of good decisions, such as getting customer buy-in to (rather than starting over on the gearbox) switch it from a two-gear to a one-gear with a more powerful drivetrain to achieve the same accel, they brought the price down to $109k at release.

      The Model S was initially promised at $57,4k for 40kWh, $67,4k for 60kWh, and $84,4k for 85kWh. The price today? $59,9k for 40kWh, $68k for for 60kWh, and $79,9k for 85kWh.

      The Model X was the same story - came in right at around the price estimate.

      Where you got this "Tesla has missed their projected price by about $30K consistently" is beyond me.

      I'm going to guess that material prices will shoot through the roof

      Wow, I'm sure Tesla totally didn't think about ensuring reliable supplies for their raw materials. I bet that totally never crossed their mind. Thank God we have Anonymous Coward here to point out their mistakes to them!

      --
      Stale pastry is hollow succor to one who is bereft of ostrich.
    7. Re:Teslas doesn't make cars, they make bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They have 500.000 orders for model 3. that's a LOT. I am guessing total value = largest preorder in history.

      None of those on the list have COMMITTED to purchase, they just have the OPTION TO purchase. They can get their money back at any time. People scrambled to get on the list so that, if they wanted to buy, they could be among the group that qualifies for the full $7.5K tax credit. We have no idea how many will actually buy.

    8. Re:Teslas doesn't make cars, they make bullshit by haruchai · · Score: 2

      The Roadster was promised at $100k

      No, base price was supposed to be $89,000

      From Musk's blog post of Aug 2nd, 2006; the Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan - https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/bl...
      "Without giving away too much, I can say that the second model will be a sporty four door family car at roughly half the $89k price point of the Tesla Roadster and the third model will be even more affordable"

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    9. Re: Teslas doesn't make cars, they make bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where do you get those prices? I just checked the website www.tesla.be and Model S 60kw starts at 86,000 euro...

    10. Re:Teslas doesn't make cars, they make bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no, from the Tesla website the base price for a model S is $73K. NOT $59.9K.

      Can you read?

      https://www.tesla.com/models/design

      Pay attention and try to keep up.

    11. Re:Teslas doesn't make cars, they make bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Roughly. read again friend

    12. Re: Teslas doesn't make cars, they make bullshit by Rei · · Score: 2
      --
      Stale pastry is hollow succor to one who is bereft of ostrich.
    13. Re:Teslas doesn't make cars, they make bullshit by Rei · · Score: 1

      Where exactly are you finding a 40kW Model S on the website? Because you're comparing to the price I listed for the 40kWh, but the page you linked starts at the 60kWh. And the page you linked lists the baseline 60kW model for... wait for it... $68k. The price I listed for the 60kWh. 73k is for the 60kWh AWD, which is faster than the baseline, RWD 60kWh model S.

      Pay attention and try to keep up.

      --
      Stale pastry is hollow succor to one who is bereft of ostrich.
    14. Re:Teslas doesn't make cars, they make bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    15. Re:Teslas doesn't make cars, they make bullshit by Rei · · Score: 1

      A person who can't manage to pay attention to what battery pack models they're comparing the price on, calling the person they're talking with who quoted them accurately a dumbass?

      Tesla did meet the price (within a couple percent) on the 40 kWh pack. The fact that there was low demand for it is irrelevant.

      --
      Stale pastry is hollow succor to one who is bereft of ostrich.
    16. Re:Teslas doesn't make cars, they make bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      rather, I suggest you should read it again
      the word roughly applies to the half, not to the $89k

      English comprehension, please investigate it

    17. Re:Teslas doesn't make cars, they make bullshit by Rei · · Score: 2

      They made promises for specific battery pack levels and they delivered on all of them. People stopped buying one pack size, so they stopped selling it. That has no bearing on Tesla's track record of meeting their promises, because the promises in each case were relative to specific battery pack levels.

      And the fact that you keep saying "$73k" just makes you look like an idiot, because you keep citing the upgraded 60D (aka, the performance version of the 60 kWh-pack model S) instead of the base 60, which is $68k.

      --
      Stale pastry is hollow succor to one who is bereft of ostrich.
    18. Re:Teslas doesn't make cars, they make bullshit by Rei · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure what you want here. Are you saying that Tesla should have kept selling a vehicle that people weren't buying, just to prove to you.... what exactly?

      --
      Stale pastry is hollow succor to one who is bereft of ostrich.
    19. Re:Teslas doesn't make cars, they make bullshit by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      Eberhard ... all of the problems he had gotten the company into (penalties for unmeetable contracts, a stupid choice of gearbox supplier, etc), and ultimately he was fired. ... However, with a lot of good decisions, such as getting customer buy-in to (rather than starting over on the gearbox) switch it from a two-gear to a one-gear with a more powerful drivetrain to achieve the same accel, they brought the price down to $109k at release.

      What you neglect to say is that Elon was the one who pushed them into adding the gearbox to the design in the first place. Not Eberhard. Elon wanted to increase the top speed.

    20. Re:Teslas doesn't make cars, they make bullshit by haruchai · · Score: 1

      Tesla did meet the price (within a couple percent) on the 40 kWh pack. The fact that there was low demand for it is irrelevant.

      They did better than that. All the orders for Model S40 were fulfilled with software-limited 60 kWh battery packs. If the owners choose to not unlock the full capacity, those packs will last a long time. And the cars have the same performance as the S60s did at the time and are grandfathered for unlimiited Supercharging.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
  3. Musk is about to dilute shareholders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Enjoy it Musk fanbois.

    1. Re:Musk is about to dilute shareholders by segedunum · · Score: 1

      Yep. Yet more churn.

    2. Re:Musk is about to dilute shareholders by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

      All the "market" oriented people have always claimed Elon Musk's companies are going to fail. Every one of them has been wrong (and confused about it) to date.

      Not a "fanboi", just an observer.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    3. Re:Musk is about to dilute shareholders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's troubling how much noise 1 or 2 people with a financial interest in Tesla failing can generate. I hope your put options end up being worthless, and you shorted Tesla on margin. I look forward to your house being repossesed.

    4. Re:Musk is about to dilute shareholders by Baron_Yam · · Score: 1

      Meh. It's a mix of finance and politics... buying a bit of this stock is supporting Musk, and I like what he's doing.

      Yes, I'm making a rich guy richer (when he's structured things so he's not really footing the bill or all that much risk), but you can also look at it as an investment in the future instead of direct financial profit.

      You know, a future with less expensive space travel, a better power grid and electric transportation, maybe even the stupid hyperloop (though I don't really buy the hyperloop arguments since most of the 'savings' are about right-of way, and that could easily be taken advantage of by traditional rail with less risk).

    5. Re:Musk is about to dilute shareholders by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      As far as I am aware the only one that has succeeded thus far is Paypal, and he founded the original company but then there was a merger and he was ousted before the sale to ebay. Obviously the guy is a good talker and knows how to raise money, but which successful companies are you talking about?

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    6. Re:Musk is about to dilute shareholders by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      This happens with all the "volatile" stocks. It is why you as an investor need to be patient and understand both short and long term implications of what is going on. Over the years I have made a killing and lost my shirt on Apple stock based on the cycles that happen with it. Some times you just need to let go...

    7. Re:Musk is about to dilute shareholders by harperska · · Score: 1

      One of his companies successfully launched a communications satellite to geosynchronous orbit last night. That company would have been profitable last year if it weren't for a mishap that grounded the fleet, though they returned to flight in record time. Barring any more mishaps, they will be profitable this year. The company in question has a full launch manifest because of their ability to launch satellites for much cheaper than any of their competitors, and once they start reflying landed boosters, costs will come down even further. How is SpaceX not a successful company in your eyes?

    8. Re:Musk is about to dilute shareholders by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Last I read, the problems with the "reusable" rockets were fairly fundamental, I wasn't sure if he had got on top of that yet.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    9. Re:Musk is about to dilute shareholders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are planning to refly a booster on the next launch at the end of this month. Not exactly a fundemental problem.

    10. Re:Musk is about to dilute shareholders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Re-fly a booster crumpled like an accordion in a crash landing. Lot'sa luck, Musk.

    11. Re:Musk is about to dilute shareholders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Luck is not a factor.

    12. Re:Musk is about to dilute shareholders by mspohr · · Score: 1

      It's not really wise to bet against Musk. He does make outrageous claims and plans but he usually delivers (mostly late).
      Lots of hate for his success but that is not an investment strategy.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    13. Re:Musk is about to dilute shareholders by mspohr · · Score: 1

      They just launched one of the reusable rockets last night so they seem to have overcome any issues.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    14. Re:Musk is about to dilute shareholders by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1

      Are you the same AC who was claiming (based on your own personal experience as a rocket scientist I assume) that it was impossible for a non-government entity to get into orbit?

    15. Re:Musk is about to dilute shareholders by harperska · · Score: 1

      The one last night wasn't a reuse, though the first reused booster will be either the next one or the one after, I believe.

    16. Re:Musk is about to dilute shareholders by harperska · · Score: 1

      The reusable part is really just icing on the cake and only a necessity for taking SpaceX beyond just being a good take-your-satellites-to-orbit company. Even without reuse, they are still pretty successful in the satellite launch business. As far as fundamental problems, lets talk after the SES-10 launch scheduled for later this month.

    17. Re:Musk is about to dilute shareholders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's always wise to bet against Musk. He does make outrageous claims and never delivers

      Fixed that for you. The man is scam artist.

    18. Re:Musk is about to dilute shareholders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you claiming space ex used not even a single penny or government money or resources?

    19. Re:Musk is about to dilute shareholders by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      The touchdown was at quite a low velocity. Don't know what you are talking about. Plus most of the cost in a vehicle is the engines, not the propellant tanks or the aeroshell.

  4. Here we go. The Musk-hating posse on this site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    will be gleefully happy.

    When Apple issues corporate bonds despite having $200 Billion in the bank, nobody bats an eyelid. When a business that is in a relatively early state of growth and wants to fund expansion decides to borrow money (Tesla), suddenly we have people accusing Musk of being a freeloader and a charlatan, whose businesses must be on the verge of collapse.

    Almost all companies who intend to grow quickly borrow money to do so, especially with interest rates being historically low. It would be bad business not to borrow the money.

  5. It's up $5 already - lot's of stupid people. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tesla trades on emotion; not on fundamentals. The folks who buy are incredibly irrational. It's been in business since 2003 and has only made a profit when it pulls accounting tricks. Anyone putting money into Tesla now - especially at its obscene price - is an idiot. They do not understand risk/return, the time value of money, or anything else about investing - they are all gambling on Musk - and they will lose.
    With the QEs and cheap money, there's a lot of stupid money out there.

    1. Re:It's up $5 already - lot's of stupid people. by DirkDaring · · Score: 2

      Good thing you posted as AC, don't want your name associated with not knowing a thing about stocks.

    2. Re:It's up $5 already - lot's of stupid people. by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      With a market cap of $42B, the additional stock is meaningless in terms of dilution.

      BTW, now $7 and change...

    3. Re:It's up $5 already - lot's of stupid people. by Rei · · Score: 2

      Right. Institutional investors are clueless about money. Slashdot ACs who know nothing about Tesla's internal figures and can't even bother to keep up on the published figures are the real financial geniuses. I'm sure you made that post from a yacht moored right offshore of your private island, didn't you?

      You sound so much like the endless stream of people on Slashdot making fun of anyone who invested in Amazon because "they never turned a profit" - completely ignoring that businesses undergoing rapid scaleup by design don't return profits, and quite the opposite need regular capital rounds to pay for said scaleup.

      Meanwhile, actual investors want companies with scaleup potential to do said capital rounds so that they can own a smaller piece of a much larger company. They don't want to be owning X% a Ma and Pa Roadster factory that churns out 100 cars a year, they want to be owning X/10% of the next GM.

      --
      Stale pastry is hollow succor to one who is bereft of ostrich.
    4. Re: It's up $5 already - lot's of stupid people. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are speaking gibberish.

      The stock markets are a futures market in reality. Folks are buying Tesla because think that one day it will be a highly profitable company. But do to the hype, Tesla us trading as if it will have a NET INCOME of 20 billion dollars by 2020.

      That's impossible.

      Amazon is trading so high that it will never ever become profitable enough to justify its current price. Ever.

      Many institutional investors buy on momentum and many others have shit for brains. Remeber, they were a huge part of the dot.com crash.

      Lastly, things are looking like 2000 again. I made money off of that, btw. Which means I'm smarter than the rest of you. And Tesla investors are gambling on their hero Musk because they are dumb enough to beleive the hype.

      There's a lot of stupid money out there.

    5. Re:It's up $5 already - lot's of stupid people. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right. Institutional investors are clueless about money.

      If you knew the reality of institutional investors, you'd would be saying that. The fact of the matter is the valuation of a company matters tremendously when it comes to overall rate of return. Due to nearly a decade of ZIRP, Tesla has been given a tremendous leg up in inexpensive financing that it would have have gotten in almost any other period in American history.

      That said, it must be admitted that those who bought the stock when it was under $100 and held until now have made a tremendous return on paper. On paper. At current valuations and with Tesla's costs of goods manufacture, I would be astonished if people buying the stock at the current price of over $250 per share don't see a substantial loss over the next 10 years and I very seriously doubt they will ever recover in nominal terms never mind real, inflation-adjusted terms.

      Tesla is a stock to trade or speculate on. It is not a good stock for a long-term investment. We'll see if Tesla can deliver large numbers of the Model 3 this year close to schedule and without quality problems.

    6. Re:It's up $5 already - lot's of stupid people. by Rei_is_a_dumbass · · Score: 1

      Right. Institutional investors are clueless about money.

      No dumbass morons like you are fucking clueless period.

    7. Re:It's up $5 already - lot's of stupid people. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      You sound so much like the endless stream of people on Slashdot making fun of anyone who invested in Amazon because "they never turned a profit" - completely ignoring that businesses undergoing rapid scaleup by design don't return profits, and quite the opposite need regular capital rounds to pay for said scaleup.

      A company has to make a profit at some time though. If its discounted future cashflows aren't positive, the investment has a negative value.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    8. Re: It's up $5 already - lot's of stupid people. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like someone has been reading their Ben Graham. ;) I completely agree with you. I think Amazon is currently selling for about 200 times earnings. If they distributed all of their net income as a dividend, share holders would get a better return on a CD with none of the risk.

      Tesla has some of the qualitative properties of a good investment, but the quantitative aspect isn't there. For one, it is trading at almost 9 times book value. Even if everything liquidated as stated on their latest balance sheets, which is pretty unlikely, shareholders wouldn't get much. According to their December 2016 balance sheet, share holders have about 4 billion in equity, with 161 million shares outstanding, that is about 25 dollars per share current share holders would get if the company liquidated. Pretty bad deal for anyone buying at 260 dollars per share.

      Moving onto actually making a profit, at current prices. Current market capitalization for Tesla is about 46 billion. A quick lookup of other auto makers shows a price to net earnings ratio of about 6-10 is par, which is pretty cheap considering the S&P 500 P/E is about 25 or so last time I checked a month ago. This would mean Tesla would have to NET 4-10 billion in a year to be as profitable for share holders as current car makers at its present size! Another quick factoid. Ford has a market capitalization of 50 billion and netted 6 billion in 2016.

      Tesla's stock should be selling for about 20 a share in my opinion.

  6. A fool and his money are soon parted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This because there are so many of you fools out there waving dollas at your hero. Eventually he will run out of other peoples money. I read that musk is putting up $13.5 million himself. LOL! He's is worth $13 _billion_ on paper.

    1. Re:A fool and his money are soon parted by jareth-0205 · · Score: 1

      This because there are so many of you fools out there waving dollas at your hero. Eventually he will run out of other peoples money. I read that musk is putting up $13.5 million himself. LOL! He's is worth $13 _billion_ on paper.

      Atleast he's doing something. Atleast he might succeed. What are you doing for the world, dear AC?

    2. Re:A fool and his money are soon parted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Elon Musk himself will personally contribute by buying $25 million in Tesla stock.

      After dilution of course.

    3. Re:A fool and his money are soon parted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Making money hand over fist investing in viable companies, and shorting non-viable ones ;)

    4. Re:A fool and his money are soon parted by Rei · · Score: 1

      It's been institutional investors buying most of Tesla's stock thusfar.

      And making a mint on it, it should be added.

      By the way, Anonymous Stopped Clock, when are you finally going to actually be right about something concerning Tesla? Anybody else remember TTAC's "Tesla Death Watch" series? They last updated it in 2008. It's hilarious irony now. ;)

      --
      Stale pastry is hollow succor to one who is bereft of ostrich.
    5. Re: A fool and his money are soon parted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Powwwww. Got em.

    6. Re:A fool and his money are soon parted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit, you are searching for porn on other people's computers while working for Geek Squad.

    7. Re:A fool and his money are soon parted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How exactly is running a Ponzi scheme subsidised by taxpayer money doing something for the world?

    8. Re:A fool and his money are soon parted by jareth-0205 · · Score: 1

      Making money hand over fist investing in viable companies, and shorting non-viable ones ;)

      That would be doing something for *you* then.

    9. Re:A fool and his money are soon parted by haruchai · · Score: 1

      How exactly is running a Ponzi scheme subsidised by taxpayer money doing something for the world?

      We call that government

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    10. Re:A fool and his money are soon parted by Rei_is_a_dumbass · · Score: 1

      It's been stupid dumbass moron like me buying most of Tesla's stock thus far.

      Fixed that for you.

  7. Stock is Up by Thelasko · · Score: 1

    I find it surprising that the stock is trading nearly 3% higher on this news. Normally a stock would lose value because the shares will be diluted. (There should be some correlation between the assets of the company and the value of all the outstanding shares) I think investors are pleased that Tesla will have enough cash on hand to achieve it's goals.

    --
    One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    1. Re:Stock is Up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It was already priced in, as it had been expected by analysts - and the amount is smaller than had been expected.

    2. Re:Stock is Up by Rei · · Score: 3, Informative

      Markets factor in things that might affect the stock before official announcements, based on what they expect the announcement to indicate. The stock is up because the capital round is smaller than the market had thought would be necessary.

      --
      Stale pastry is hollow succor to one who is bereft of ostrich.
    3. Re:Stock is Up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Share shouldn't go up or down due to secondary share offering. Ex: Say company is made of 10 shares at 10$. Company value = 10x10=100$. Say they now want to offer a secondary share offering, say 5 new share at market value. that means that they will raise 5x10$=50$. The company new value is thus (Prior value + 50$) = 150$. Given there's now 15 shares, that's 10$ per share.

      Thus no gain/no loss. The expected vs real

    4. Re:Stock is Up by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1

      Neither does quantum mechanics, but it's the most accurate of anything science. It's more accurate that F=ma.

  8. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  9. Re:Can you spell Theranos? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's funny watching all the nerds logging onto Musk stories and pretending that they play the stockmarket. "Oh yes, I have sold this stock short massively blah blah blah". Still, I don't want to interrupt your fantasy, dude.

  10. Re: Can you spell Theranos? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Every nerd I know does at least dabbeling in stocks past the standard 401k.

  11. Re:Can you spell Theranos? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not fair to compare Tesla with Theranos. Tesla has real product that is shipping now and works. The real issue is if Tesla has a viable business model and if its current valuation can be justified. Many Tesla naysayers, and I am one, believe the answer is "No."

    Normalize interest rates and Tesla will start have to start earning serious operating capital or be in the dot-com model of "we'll make it up on volume."

  12. Re:Can you spell Theranos? by zerofoo · · Score: 2

    A Theranos comparison? Really?

    Tesla is producing real products (unlike Theranos) and is delivering slightly more cars per year than that little Stuttgart automaker Porsche.

    However, unlike Porsche, Tesla is investing in one of the largest and most cost-effective battery factories in the world. It is possible that when Gigafactory is running at full-scale, most of the electric auto manufacturers and power companies will be buying batteries and energy storage systems from Tesla.

    Tesla isn't anything like Theranos. I predict MBA's will be reading about Elon Musk - but not in the context you describe.

  13. Re:Can you spell Theranos? by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

    The real issue is if Tesla has a viable business model and if its current valuation can be justified. Many Tesla naysayers, and I am one, believe the answer is "No."

    Normalize interest rates and Tesla will start have to start earning serious operating capital or be in the dot-com model of "we'll make it up on volume."

    As with most naysayers, you're obviously completely clueless about anything and everything to do with finances. If you did, you'd have read Tesla's financial statements and know they make a profit on every single vehicle sold. As in "sale price - (cost of materials + cost of labor) = a positive number." They most definitely can "make it up on volume" eventually. That's the whole point of this funding round—ramping up their production capacity so they can produce higher volumes. Higher volumes of a profitable product x the amount of product sold = higher profit. Tesla doesn't post a profit because they're busy sinking those earnings into building out not one but two factories. But a super genius like you already knew that.

    You obviously have no clue what a convertible note is, either. The interest rate on convertible notes is often not tied to the prime rate or to any other published rate. Tesla's coupon rate on their convertible notes is habitually a fixed 1.5%. Normalize the interest rates or further denormalize them, it doesn't matter. Tesla knows how much they will be paying on their debt, and it's totally unaffected by the prime rate. Further, when those convertible notes come due, they will pay in equity, not cash. That's what a convertible note is. But a super genius like you knew that too.

    Oh wait. You obviously didn't know those things. Maybe when you learn the most basic things about corporate finance and about Tesla's specific financing, you'll be a super genius. Until then, you're just an idiot.

  14. Re:Can you spell Theranos? by beanpoppa · · Score: 1

    Energy credits are a government subsidy to support electric car producers, but it's hardly a unique situation. The government subsidizes everything from corn production to aeronautics. If you are arguing that the solar power industry would not be profitable without government subsidies, than you'd have to ask yourself if the same would be true without all the government spending on stabilizing world oil supplies.

  15. Re:Can you spell Theranos? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

    they make a profit on every single vehicle sold. As in "sale price - (cost of materials + cost of labor) = a positive number."

    Pretty much all companies except for basket cases on the verge of bankruptcy make a gross profit.

    It's the net profit you need to look at.

    --
    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it