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US Appeals Court Won't Rehear 'Net Neutrality' Challenge (reuters.com)

A federal appeals court on Monday declined to rehear a challenge to the Obama administration's landmark "net neutrality" rules requiring internet providers to guarantee equal access to all websites. From a report: The decision by the full appeals court in Washington not to reconsider a three-judge panel's decision that upheld the ruling comes days after Federal Communications Commission Chairman Ajit Pai proposed to undo the 2015 net neutrality that reclassified internet providers like public utilities. The 2015 order bars internet providers from blocking, throttling or giving "fast lanes" to some websites. Pai has proposed reversing the reclassification and scrapping internet conduct standards, and has asked for comment on whether the FCC can or should retain any of the rules barring blocking, throttling or "fast lanes." Judge Sri Srinivasan said in a written opinion reviewing the decision "would be particularly unwarranted at this point in light of the uncertainty surrounding the fate of the FCC's order."

32 comments

  1. Good thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seems like it

    1. Re:Good thing? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Seems like it

      It is neither a good nor a bad thing. It is a meaningless thing. This was about Obama's NN policies. Since Obama is no longer president, and the new guy is changing those policies, a court challenge to the old policies is pointless. Which is why the court declined to hear it.

    2. Re:Good thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, this is a great thing. For them (The ISPs). According to the judge, "You cannot force a bookstore to promote a book, so this is a first amendment issue." First amendment issues mean "Free Speech", and in the court system "Free Speech" is a another way the courts say "money" [See: Citizen's United].

      Therefore, if the bookstore (AT&T) in this case, wants to charge you a membership fee ($20/mo) to sell convenient access to a book (Netflix/Amazon/Facebook/Hulu/Gmail), that is their "Free Speech" right. If you wish to forgo the membership, you need to queue in line to wait for your turn to view the book. Current wait time is approximately 1.5 hours (24 bonded T1s of bandwidth).

      Even better, the bookstore can go to their suppliers, and tell them they need to pay an additional $X per book sold to those individuals, or they will have to limit the hours to between 2 am and 4 am of the non-member's access to the store (bandwidth, single T1) .

      TL;DR Media companies will now be able to create Premium access channels of their services, which will be baked into the cost of the ISP service, whether you want it or not. Or you can pay them a premium to access another ISPs offering.

    3. Re:Good thing? by tattood · · Score: 3, Funny

      What is this bookstore thing you refer to? Can you explain it in a car analogy?

      --
      WTB [sig], PST!!!
    4. Re:Good thing? by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Quit it, yer killin' me. lol

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    5. Re:Good thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The government spends billions of dollars on a massive money pit called interstate highways. The roads your car drives on are government-funded with more-or-less equal access to any qualified driver. America's Internet is like if we had private roads everywhere instead of government-funded ones. You'd have to pay more (since it wasn't being subsidized elsewhere), there'd be no roads outside of major cities, and you'd be refused access to certain businesses if they refused to pay fees to allow you through.

    6. Re:Good thing? by Straif · · Score: 1

      Just posting to kill my accidental -mod.

      (They really shouldn't have funny and overrated next to each other on the mod list.)

      --
      Of course that's just my opinion...... you could be wrong!
    7. Re:Good thing? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      This is a bad thing for mustache-twirling villains everywhere. They're probably yelling things like "Curses!" and "Foiled again!" and stomping on their stovepipe hats.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  2. just tell me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    do i need to keep paying for the vpn? also fuck you pie

    1. Re:just tell me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Vpn has many uses.

  3. Finally some good news by zuki · · Score: 2

    Even though it's certain that they'll keep pushing, if confirmed and true, at least this is a welcome respite from the otherwise monotonous unchallenged attempts at repealing most everything that was enacted in the public's interest during the previous administration's tenure.

  4. Non-neutral "Internet" is a mislabelled product by dcavanaugh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One could reasonably make the case that TCP/IP was not designed to elevate one customer's packets over another. Application layer protocols (video + voice over web and email) certainly, but even then, the original intent was to set those priorities for each user's own network.

    When consumers purchase "Internet access" (for home use or a commercial server farm), they expect to have equal access to all of it, subject to the traditional limitations of how much bandwidth the other side has purchased, how many hops it takes to efficiently route the traffic, and any weak spots along the way. Deliberately degrading certain destinations (the "slow lane") and still calling the service "Internet" is IMHO selling an adulterated product, just as a product labelled "ground beef" is expected to be made from beef instead of soy.

    1. Re:Non-neutral "Internet" is a mislabelled product by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just admit you're an entitled little shit and you want preferential treatment because you're fucking worth it.

    2. Re:Non-neutral "Internet" is a mislabelled product by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You got it spot on. Unfortunately the internet is more sporadic than this due to tyrannical regimes, terrible internet service providers, and similar.

      Ideally we'd simply have real competition, but the government has ensured that isn't possible. To give people an idea on just how terrible it is listen to this. So this past summer I got hooked up with fiber internet access. The install wasn't cheap. It was $3,000 to run fiber 8/10 of a mile. A neighbour and good friend got a quote to do a connection between a junction box and his home that was less than 1/10 of a mile away from multiple junction boxes. You could practically spit and reach it. His quote? $17,000. Why? Cause the cost of licensing poles is insane and the poles to reach my place were already licensed. Who do you get this license from? The city. Want to solve the problem? Stop inflating the costs of running fiber. The city likes it because they get a huge $$$ and the incumbent competition likes it cause it stops competition.

      Ultimately with more competition we probably wouldn't need net neutrality.

    3. Re:Non-neutral "Internet" is a mislabelled product by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Begone paid shill.

    4. Re:Non-neutral "Internet" is a mislabelled product by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      As soon as one network peers directly with another network, it is not equal. The Internet is not made up of transit links. It is a complex interconnection of networks (inter-net). Most end users don't see all the peering that goes on, but they benefit greatly from it. Some remember when Robert Metcalfe stated that the Internet was going to collapse in the late 90's. Why didn't it? There was a concerted effort to improve routing and peering. Instead of the bulk of Internet traffic traversing small set of backbone networks, smaller nets would peer with each other. This reduced the traffic going over the backbone networks. I get very uncomfortable when people talk about "fast lanes" and Net Neutrality. The original definition of Net Neutrality was to prevent shaping or blocking connections. After the Netflix issue people started lumping in "fast lanes". The government should not get involved with peering agreements. Peering needs to be agile and not wrapped up on bureaucracy. The Netflix issue was not an issue of Net Neutrality, it was an issue of Cogent wanting to keep their status as a transit-free network.

    5. Re:Non-neutral "Internet" is a mislabelled product by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      I am working my way down through the comments and, so far, this is the only one posted by someone who knows the difference between bullshit and wild honey.

      Well said.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    6. Re:Non-neutral "Internet" is a mislabelled product by the_bard17 · · Score: 2

      Damn right I'm entitled. I pay monthly for a service. I expect that service to be fulfilled, not monkeyed with.

    7. Re:Non-neutral "Internet" is a mislabelled product by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      When consumers purchase "Internet access" (for home use or a commercial server farm), they expect to have equal access to all of it,

      To most non-gamers, "the internet" is the web. They will become cross if they cannot access a website, or if some application they have purchased (frequently via the web) fails at online activation, but they're doing everything else through their browser.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:Non-neutral "Internet" is a mislabelled product by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're under the misunderstanding that Comcast and Verizon are in the business of providing Internet access.

    9. Re:Non-neutral "Internet" is a mislabelled product by sjames · · Score: 1

      Blame the scumbags in telecomm. We have already seen examples of implementing slow lanes by slowing everything down and then adding "fast lanes" that are simply what existed before the throttling. Kinda like in cartoons where someone "volunteers" when everyone else takes a step back.

      Likewise there's sharply limiting a peering point, then trying to double dip by charging a fee to someone who isn't even your customer to remove the otherwise unneeded bandwidth limiter.

      Btw, the peering crisis in the late '90s was due to more attempts to double dip on the business side rather than a technical problem.

    10. Re:Non-neutral "Internet" is a mislabelled product by thule · · Score: 1

      What example do you have of a company purposely slowing down a peering link? If you're thinking Netflix, that isn't a very good example.


      Would you rather have every packet coming into the ISP's network through transit links only?

      There is no double dipping. There are two ways to get connectivity for Internet. One way is transit. Transit can be expensive especially for companies like Netflix. Transit is pretty simple, you pay for x-bandwidth or port speed. The other option is to peer. For peering, one company/network pays the destination network to deliver the packet. This is less costly than transit, but the packet's destination must be within the peered network. If the networks have nearly equal traffic between them, then they call it a wash and don't charge the other party. Nothing new here. This is similar to how long distance companies work. When a long distance company couldn't connect the call directly (they didn't own the last mile), they would pay the local exchange to complete the connection. Last mile networks are expensive. Delivering a call or a packet for that last mile is valuable.

    11. Re:Non-neutral "Internet" is a mislabelled product by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just admit you're an entitled little shit and you want preferential treatment because you're fucking worth it.

      It is a sad state of affairs if demanding truth in advertising and labeling makes one an 'entitled little shit'. If the provider wants to provide 'slow lane' internet. Or access with limitations, as long as those limitations are CLEARLY spelled out in my service contract, so be it. It allows me to be an educated purchaser.

      But that would require standardization of language and terms. It would eliminate the ability of the sales personnel to manipulate the language and use weasel words. In my experience the advertisers tend to be the 'entitled little shits' who think they can say what ever they want to sell a product and think I 'have' to see the ads they push.

    12. Re:Non-neutral "Internet" is a mislabelled product by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just admit you're an entitled little shit and you want preferential treatment because you're fucking worth it.

      LOL, who would ever admit such a thing? Your request is ridiculous. However, for the record, I am most certainly fucking worth it.

    13. Re:Non-neutral "Internet" is a mislabelled product by sjames · · Score: 1

      You're confused. If peering involves payment, there certainly is double dipping. Lets say there are 2 providers A and B. I am a customer of A and the server I want to talk to is a customer of B. If the server is sending me a packet, B should not need to pay A to deliver it to me because I have already paid A to deliver that packet. Likewise, A should not pay B because the server's owner has already paid B. Transit would be a 3ed company C that is contracted by A and B to carry traffic between them.

      A and B choose to peer in order to shorten the path between me and the server, relieving congestion on their own internal networks. Also so that they don't have to pay C,D, or E to carry the traffic.

      The crazy situation with voice communication where companies constantly nickel and dime each other to death creates a huge overhead. So much that it is actually cheaper to implement Voice over Ip over voice lines than it is to just use the voice lines directly, because it avoids the overhead of trading the same nickel back and forth dozens of times.

    14. Re:Non-neutral "Internet" is a mislabelled product by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, in a market economy what should happen is that companies tell you what you can buy, enforced by the laws they have bought, and if you expect otherwise you're an entitled little shit.

  5. Court: "who cares, the Obama rule is dead anyway"? by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Hmmm...I'm not sure fans of net neutrality won anything here. I think the court basically said, "who cares about the legal challenge to Obama's rule, since Obama's rule is dead man walking anyway." From TFA:

    >> Judge Sri Srinivasan said in a written opinion reviewing the decision "would be particularly unwarranted at this point in light of the uncertainty surrounding the fate of the FCC’s order." The FCC is set to hold an initial vote on May 18 on Pai's proposal but Srinivasan questioned why the full court should review "the validity of a rule that the agency had already slated for replacement."

  6. Current summary? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What is the quick summary of Net Neutrality? from the summary it sounds like the following:

    1) FCC reclassifies ISPs as public utilities.
    2) ISPs sue.
    3) Court says they are public utilities.
    4) ISPs appeal to Supreme Court.
    5) FCC undoes the classification that they are public utilities.
    6) Supreme Court does not hear the appeal, citing #5 as part of the reason.

    Is this correct? In other words, currently ISPs are not public utilities, and Net Neutrality looks dead for at least a few years?

  7. Forget the context and look again.. by WolfgangVL · · Score: 1

    On this logic, So-And-So can talk loudly about changing a law, and the courts will treat said law as toxic and not even hear a challenge, as said law is "on its way out" Seems legit.

    1. To hell with income tax!
    2. Raise income tax 50%.
    3. Laugh as courts refuse to hear challenges to my new tax as its on its way out anyway....
    4. Profit....
    5. Repeat.

    --
    You are being ripped off every second of every day, so that advertisers can help rip you off even more tomorrow.
  8. Let me just say... by zifn4b · · Score: 2

    ...suck it Comcast and AT&T.

    --
    We'll make great pets
  9. Let's fix it by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 2

    On this logic, So-And-So can talk loudly about changing a law, and the courts will treat said law as toxic and not even hear a challenge, as said law is "on its way out" Seems legit.

    1. To hell with income tax!
    2. Raise income tax 50%.
    3. Laugh as courts refuse to hear challenges to my new tax as its on its way out anyway....
    4. Profit....
    5. Repeat.

    Context matters in this instance, and in most of the political articles on Slashdot.

    The net neutrality law was a standout overreach by one department, essentially making up regulations that are outside the purview of that department. If this is allowed to continue we'd have lots of other departments declaring themselves the regulator of fact of anything and everything and a mishmash of ill-considered, overreaching, and contradictory laws.

    As an example of this, the FAA decided that they were the regulator of fact for (commercial, toy) drones, and then essentially banned them outright. After great public outcry and 5 years, they instituted draconian rules that include intrusive registration and unnecessary regulation, the vast majority of which has nothing whatsoever to do with aircraft.

    DHS decided they were the regulator of fact for model rocketry, and effectively banned the hobby for several years. DEA has decided that they are the regulator of fact for home chemistry sets, and uses extra-legal methods to enforce it. (Such as the gentleman making water-safe drinking straws containing Iodine, who had to go out of business after the DEA "asked" all his suppliers to stop selling him iodine.)

    Now, you can argue that having a bad law is better than no law, but it's not 100% black-and-white here. We really do need to stop government from reaching into everyone's lives and making draconian rules.

    Argue for a *better* law, argue for multiple providers, argue for the correct department to handle ir, argue to fix the issue by other means (such as competition). Point out that cities charge money for pole access, make exclusionary deals with providers, and get all sorts of kickbacks.

    Net neutrality is a good thing, so let's fix it rather than complain about narrowly-defined aspects.