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Judge's Order Bars Uber Engineer From LiDAR Work, Demands Returns of Stolen Files (arstechnica.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: A U.S. federal judge has ordered Uber to bar its top self-driving car engineer from any work on LiDAR, and return stolen files to Google's self-driving car unit Waymo. Today's order by U.S. District Judge William Alsup demands Uber do "whatever it can to ensure that its employees return 14,000-plus pilfered files to their rightful owner." The files must be returned by May 31. The order was granted last week, but just made public in an unsealed document this morning. U.S. District Judge William Alsup found that Uber "likely knew or at least should have known" that the man it hired as its top self-driving car engineer, Anthony Levandowski, took and kept more than 14,000 Waymo files. Those files "likely contain at least some trade secrets," making some "provisional relief" for Waymo appropriate. Levandowski has previously asserted his Fifth Amendment rights with respect to his possession of the files. "If Uber were to threaten Levandowski with termination for noncompliance, that threat would be backed up by only Uber's power as a private employer, and Levandowski would remain free to forfeit his private employment to preserve his Fifth Amendment privilege," Alsup wrote. Several factors limit the amount of relief Waymo might receive. First of all, in the judge's view, not all of the 121 elements that Waymo defines as "trade secrets" are really trade secrets. Additionally, the judge has slapped aside Waymo's patent infringement accusations as "meritless."

43 comments

  1. Uber's policy on tipping . . . by Tanman · · Score: 1

    I guess they should amend it:

    Current: "No tipping of drivers"
    New: "No tipping of drivers nor of the company by newly hired executives"

    I feel no sympathy for that company.

  2. Uber sleazy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    NT

  3. Swimming with Lance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    It was around the time I had turned 13, I had my first experience with an
    older guy. It was at scout camp and was with the guy that was taking the
    place of our regular leader for the 2 week camping session. I didn't have a
    tent partner since my best friend who was going to be with me, could not go
    on the trip. I spent the first 3 nights in a tent alone, but then Lance,
    the substitute leader, suggested I bunk in with him. I think he was about
    27 years old. He had a very fit, jock bod with curly blond hair and a
    killer smile. I was always tall for my age then about 5'8", still mostly
    smooth bod, but my junk had grown and I had sprouted a wispy ring of
    pubes. I thought Lance was a wicked hot looking guy and I know I had a
    boy-crush/hero worship going for him, so I was happy to share a tent with
    him. After a few days with him, I would take every chance I got to watch
    him change his clothing, strip for a swim or a shower and I think he soon
    got the idea I was checking him out. He got very casual about how often I
    saw him in his boxers and if he changed out of them he would seem stay
    naked a little longer than he needed to when changing into swim
    trunks. Maybe he was happy to give me bit of a show. I decided to do the
    same and probably found a few too many reasons to change into or out of my
    swim trunks or whatever I was wearing in front of him.

    One day when we were swimming, he suggested a swim across the lake. We
    swam away from all the rest of the guys in the troop, to the opposite side
    of the lake and climbed out onto some boulders that were along the
    shore. There was a path that lead up the side of the mountain and up to
    some rock ledges the overlooked the lake. We could see back to the swimming
    area on the other side but when we stretched out to enjoy the sun we could
    not be seen from the other side of the lake. We talked a long time and he
    told me he liked spending time with me even though I was "just a kid..." I
    laughed with him about saying that. We were both on our backs and didn't
    talk for a long while and from the sound of his breathing I thought that he
    fell asleep. I slowly leaned up over him and looked his body. Thinking
    about it now, I know I wondered should I kiss him?

    I don't know how long I was looking at him, but I admired his tight pecs
    with just a little ring of hair around his nips and then a hot looking
    brown/blond treasure trail leading down into his shorts. I very carefully
    reached over and touched the top of that line of hair. I was fascinated
    since I was still pretty much hairless. His skin was warm to my touch, I
    ran my fingertips up and down this hair line to the top of his shorts. I
    let my hand rest on his stomach, feeling it rise and fall with his
    breathing. I pushed the tips of my fingers to the waist band of his shorts
    but was too scared to do more. I really wanted to feel him up more,
    especially when it looked like his junk got a little stiff from my touch. I
    slid my hand up his chest again, then thought maybe I was doing too much so
    looked at him, his face, his lips, wanting to kiss him but too timid to try
    that. So I kissed the tips of my fingers and very lightly touched them to
    his lips. I was very nervous about what I had done, so I laid back down
    next to Lance and closed my eyes, smiling at the fact I got the chance to
    touch him.

    I rested there for a while then I sensed Lance moving and he was sitting
    up leaning over me. Then I heard him whisper my name, when I didn't answer,
    I guessed he thought I was sleeping. After a few moments I felt a very
    light touch of his fingers glide down my chest to my navel. It was all I
    could do not to scream out, I think I did gasp a little but still pretended
    to be sleeping. He said my name again but I remained silent. He was slowly
    gliding his fingers over my chest, nips, stomach, and abs AND then along
    the top band of my sw

    1. Re: Swimming with Lance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      sexual experiences (bi/gay guys only)

      http://www.misterpoll.com/forums/203973/topics/190012

  4. Stupid Capitalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why don't these companies just work together for the good of humanity? Make Earth great again!

  5. Return? by YuppieScum · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Return the files?

    Did the judge really think this guy walked out pushing a trolley loaded with boxes of paperwork?

    Or that he copied all 14,000 to an external HDD, then deleted all the originals and the backups, including all the off-site tapes?

    Or is he so disconnected from contemporary reality that he doesn't know that what constitutes a "file" nowadays is not necessarily the same as when he studied law all those years ago?

    --
    This sig left unintentionally blank.
    1. Re:Return? by captaindomon · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's a legal thing, meaning return any right of using the materials. You'll notice they are also ordered to stop making any further copies, stop using any copies they have made, etc. but they are allowed to keep a copy to use for legal use. I.e. the legal idea of "returning copies" is well understood in legal circles. FYI, IANAL. "2. Defendants must immediately and in writing exercise the full extent of their corporate, employment, contractual, and other authority to (a) prevent Anthony Levandowski and all other officers, directors, employees, and agents of defendants from consulting, copying, or otherwise using the downloaded materials; and (b) cause them to return the downloaded materials and all copies, excerpts, and summaries thereof to Waymo (or the Court) by MAY 31 AT NOON. Copies essential for counsel of record and their litigation experts to use in defending this civil action are exempted from the foregoing requirement.9"

      --
      Just because I can hook a shark from a boat, I do no offer to wrestle it in the water.
    2. Re:Return? by Tanman · · Score: 1

      I believe the intent is rather obvious: give Waymo a copy of everything you took and delete your own files. I don't think the judge's name is Hansel (he's so hot right now).

    3. Re:Return? by captaindomon · · Score: 4, Informative

      Further: The accounting shall also identify the complete chains of custodians for every copy of any downloaded materials or due diligence report referencing downloaded materials. Defendants must also use the full extent of their authority and influence to obtain cooperation with the foregoing procedure from all involved. For example, if a potential custodian refuses to cooperate, then defendants’ accounting shall set forth the particulars, including all efforts made to obtain cooperation. The accounting must be filed and served by JUNE 23 AT NOON. i.e., the court knows what copying is. This is a problem with the media summarizing.

      --
      Just because I can hook a shark from a boat, I do no offer to wrestle it in the water.
    4. Re:Return? by lactose99 · · Score: 1

      Not familiar with Judge Alsup? The guy is very technically competent, this looks like more of a legal redress as far as court terminology is concerned.

      --
      Fully licensed blockchain psychiatrist
    5. Re:Return? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Return the files?

      Did the judge really think this guy walked out pushing a trolley loaded with boxes of paperwork?

      This particular judge is a lit more tech savvy than most. I suspect his order to "return" the files is intended to put pressure on Uber by leaving them with only 3 possible options, none of them very good:

      1. Continue to deny they have anything and gamble that evidence to the contrary never comes out.

      2. Delete the files and hope they don't get caught destroying evidence.

      3. Hand over the files, proving they had them all along.

    6. Re:Return? by TWX · · Score: 1

      Plus if Uber has to "return" files, then Waymo/Google/Alphabetsoup knows exactly which files are in question and Uber cannot claim ignorance, so if further down the road Uber shows development based on the files then Waymo has grounds for further lawsuits.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    7. Re:Return? by DRJlaw · · Score: 3, Informative

      Or is he so disconnected from contemporary reality that he doesn't know that what constitutes a "file" nowadays is not necessarily the same as when he studied law all those years ago?

      If you have to "return" an electronic file to me, it (1) prevents giving some system administrator the bright idea to simply irretrievably delete the file, otherwise called "destroying evidence" or spoliation, which is a big no-no and (2) tells me that you had that file so I no longer have to speculate as to whether you yourself possessed that file or not. Knowing that you definitely had a certain file is valuable information to me.

      Signed,
      A lawyer.

    8. Re:Return? by rijrunner · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Except, if any are found in the future, it is a criminal, not civil, infraction.

    9. Re:Return? by DRJlaw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Once the cat is out of the bag, they can't really have assurance that the files will be "returned" and copies not kept.

      Philosophically true. Practically false. You would be wise to avoid messing with a Federal judge. Someone will find out. Someone will tell the other side, or the judge, or both. The judge will, in much more businesslike language, announce "JUDGE SMASH."

      Grownups who are not sociopaths and have money at stake will try to avoid this fate. For example, they may fire the person messing with the judge, or simply throw them under the bus.

    10. Re:Return? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Or is he so disconnected from contemporary reality...

      Read his Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Haskell_Alsup

      He presided over the first Oracle v. Google case. Make sure that -at a minimum- you read Alsup's decision. Reading his questions and commentary during the trial will also be informative.

    11. Re:Return? by Nutria · · Score: 1

      Besides all the "prevent ... from consulting, copying, or otherwise using the downloaded materials", it explicitly says, "and (b) cause them to return the downloaded materials ".

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    12. Re:Return? by rijrunner · · Score: 1

      An additional note: Anyone following the Prenda Law Saga knows very good and well that Alsup will not hesitate one second to refer criminal cases to the US attorney's office as well as any other ever remotely possible law enforcement group that might be possibly involved.

    13. Re:Return? by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      BTW, JUDGE SMASH was unabashedly lifted from one of my favorite ArsTechnica headline/illustration combos.

    14. Re:Return? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so stealing is a civil infraction and not a criminal one?

    15. Re:Return? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Instead of being an idiot, read the pertinent order:

      https://www.scribd.com/documen...

    16. Re:Return? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      so stealing is a civil infraction and not a criminal one?

      No, nothing was "stolen". Copyright violations are generally a civil infraction, as are violations of NDAs and employment contracts.

      The potential criminal infraction would be violating an order from a federal judge.

    17. Re:Return? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or pay someone a lot of money to be thrown under the bus.

    18. Re:Return? by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      "The Death Star plans are not in the main computer."

      "Tear this ship apart until you find those plans!"

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    19. Re: Return? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He is also ensuring that dead tree copies are included.

      We don't have the file named lider.doc.
      We printed it out, then deleted it.

    20. Re:Return? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Return the files?

      Yes. I'm not sure why you have so much trouble understanding that this is a legal opinion thus the meaning would be taken in a legal context rather than in whatever context you took it. So what part of the legal definition has you so confused? Or do you simply not know that one exists?

      Did the judge really think this guy walked out pushing a trolley loaded with boxes of paperwork?

      Not necessarily but the order would include them if that is what he did in whole or in part.

      Or that he copied all 14,000 to an external HDD, then deleted all the originals and the backups, including all the off-site tapes?

      No.

      Or is he so disconnected from contemporary reality that he doesn't know that what constitutes a "file" nowadays is not necessarily the same as when he studied law all those years ago?

      Again, no.

    21. Re:Return? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      uh no.

      -- a lawyer

      see the comment from another lawyer below.

  6. Return? by ark1 · · Score: 2

    Once the cat is out of the bag, they can't really have assurance that the files will be "returned" and copies not kept.

  7. Somebody help me out. by xevioso · · Score: -1, Redundant

    I see this all the time, and it's fucking stupid, and it's driving me nuts.

    Any files the engineer may have do not need to be "returned" because that implies Waymo no longer has those files. The implication is the engineer took the files, as if they were some paper files in a file drawer somewhere, leaving Waymo without the files. This is 2017. The files were COPIED and don't need to be "returned to their rightful owner." The owner most likely has them. The MOST the judge should do is tell the engineer/Uber to provide the files so Waymo can just verify they have them and they weren't deleted from Waymo's servers. What am I missing here?

    1. Re:Somebody help me out. by tlhIngan · · Score: 3, Informative

      Any files the engineer may have do not need to be "returned" because that implies Waymo no longer has those files. The implication is the engineer took the files, as if they were some paper files in a file drawer somewhere, leaving Waymo without the files. This is 2017. The files were COPIED and don't need to be "returned to their rightful owner." The owner most likely has them. The MOST the judge should do is tell the engineer/Uber to provide the files so Waymo can just verify they have them and they weren't deleted from Waymo's servers. What am I missing here?

      Legal terminology. What's being returned is a copy of the documents (for Waymo to see what was taken), rescinding all rights to those documents at Uber which means cleaning off all the servers of those files and off of all PCs at Uber and whatever the guy may have touched. And, as an added measure, a complete audit log of everyone who had access to the document, and to ensure that they too have destroyed all copies of the documents (Uber to ensure compliance even if the person does not wish to comply). Waymo to get the copy of all of the stolen documents by end of this month, and the full audit log by June 23.

      Technically, by giving Waymo the files back and destroying the copies on Uber's computers, the documents are being "returned" because Uber no longer has them. Also, the term "returned" has a legal meaning that effectively says to deny Uber access to all of those files which may also mean scrubbing backups If Uber decides they would simply recover the documents off their backup tapes or Amazon glacier cloud, that would not count as fully "returning" the documents.

  8. Fair is fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The judge should order Uber to turn all of its LiDAR files (current and future) over to Waymo.

    Certainly would make the next company think twice about hiring someone for access to stolen files...

    1. Re:Fair is fair by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      Certainly would make the next company think twice about hiring someone for access to stolen files...

      I think you meant to say:

      It would certainly make the next company think twice about paying $360 million for a "company" that is only 3 months old.

  9. First post in almost a year due to SJW editors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    and I still notice BeauHD has a job. I'll check back in another year and see if /dot has come of their senses.

    1. Re: First post in almost a year due to SJW editors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      Just kidding, I'm back!

  10. The Bill of Privileges? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "...would remain free to forfeit his private employment to preserve his Fifth Amendment privilege,"

    Is a privilege the same thing as a right in the US?

    1. Re:The Bill of Privileges? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "...would remain free to forfeit his private employment to preserve his Fifth Amendment privilege,"

      Is a privilege the same thing as a right in the US?

      He exercised his right as defined in the Fifth Amendment.
      Choosing to do so gave him the privilege of not having to testify (against himself).

      There are circumstances under which the privilege can be revoked.
      For example, if Trump were to pardon him.
      The pardon removes the criminal charges, meaning the privilege is no longer applicable.

      He would still retain his right to invoke the Fifth Amendment again, if he faced different criminal charges.

  11. What goes around comes around. by berchca · · Score: 1

    The question Uber should be asking itself right now is, what will Levandowski be taking from them when he leaves...

    1. Re:What goes around comes around. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering Uber's attitude to ethical and legal considerations, he's right at home where he is.

  12. the real takeaway here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google watches absolutely everything its employees do on their work laptops:

    "On December 14, he attached a "portable data transfer device" to his work laptop for about eight hours."

    everything else in the list could be figured out through server side logs except for how long the portable hard drive was connected. although 8 hours is a bit excessive for 10 GB. I wonder what hardware he was running

    1. Re:the real takeaway here by ark1 · · Score: 1

      Google watches absolutely everything its employees do on their work laptops:

      Just like they watch everything their users do...

    2. Re: the real takeaway here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Touché ...

    3. Re:the real takeaway here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  13. Well, here are you paper files... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm keeping their digital copies everywhere, including MEGA, cha cha chaaaa!