Slashdot Mirror
US and EU Reject Expanding Laptop Ban To Flights From Europe (bbc.com)
An anonymous reader writes: US and EU officials have decided against a ban on laptops and tablets in cabin baggage on flights from Europe. But after a four-hour meeting in Brussels to discuss the threats to aviation security, officials said other measures were still being considered. US officials had previously said they were looking into extending to Europe a ban on electronics on flights from eight mostly Muslim countries. The measure was introduced over fears a bomb could be concealed in a device. The meeting was requested by EU officials after recent reports suggested US authorities had new information regarding laptop parts being turned into explosives.
>> meeting was requested by EU officials after recent reports suggested US authorities had new information regarding laptop parts being turned into explosives
Wasn't "laptops can be bombs m'kay" the classified info Trump supposedly gave to the Russians (and that currently has media outlets' panties' in various bundles).
If laptops had been banned on flights from Europe, then a terrorist could put an undetectable-laptop-bomb in their luggage from Paris to New York, then pick up their luggage, board a flight from New York to Los Angeles with the laptop in hand, and blow the plane up.
Banning laptops on international flights would have done nothing about that risk. Therefore, it seems this measure was security theater, not real security. And when it became clear how big the economic effect of banning laptops would be (in terms of dissuading travel), the measure had to be cancelled. Laptops are still banned on flights from the Middle East, but this is a small market without other options, so the economic impact on the US is minimal.
Did the US officials bring their laptops and tables as cabin luggage on this trip to Europe?
No. He allegedly revealed specifics from an operation in a particular location in Syria that was detailed enough that it was felt that the Russians could have informed Assad, which would have led to the exposure of an Israeli intelligence operation in the country (and endangered the lives of the informants/operatives).
It was related to laptops, but it was operation-specific.
Yes. That was one of the topics. Seeing as how Russia already had at least one downed aircraft from a terrorist attack, would it not be prudent to discuss this with their representative? So has Egypt on this matter. Where is the outrage when Trump met with the Egyptian representative?
What I see now is that this administration is now trying to at least talk to them to try and find a solution to the issues instead of ignoring them like the previous administration.
Thanks for the clarification. I try to stay up on foreign affairs but the current shitstorms have rendered most articles useless with unnamed informants, sketchy recollections of what someone thought someone else wrote or said, and strained attempts to tie possibly unrelated things together. It's kind of scary that SlashDot's more valuable as a traditional news source (kind of like the Daily Show was back in the day) than as a tech source (since it lags tech news by a day or more) these days.
Actually until you elected Agent Orange yes they would. Even Dubya had manors.
Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.
The US Government wants to shoot itself in the foot and make it as hard as possible for people to visit the USA.
I guess all those hotel that will go out of business will be bulldozed to make way for more Trump Golf Resorts.
That's one way to get the land cheaply isn't it.
I won't be holidaying in the USA this year because of the attirude of the Administration towards visitors. That's close on $10,000 that I'll be spending elsewhere (South Africa). I usually spend 4-8 weeks in the US. I'm a contractor so can afford to take the time off.
How soon before the bad guys create a fake pacemaker that's a bomb? Or what about medical oxygen that's really half a tank of oxygen and half a tank of explosives?
then a terrorist could put an undetectable-laptop-bomb in their luggage from Paris to New York, then pick up their luggage
Omitting the tiny detail that the luggage goes through much more rigorous screening than any carryon, so it would in fact be detected, and the person arrested, all before the plane took off...
What is your idea of an "undetectable laptop bomb"????
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
What is your idea of an "undetectable laptop bomb"????
Well, strictly speaking it's not a laptop, but would a Samsung Galaxy 7 qualify?
The airlines don't want to take liability for laptops that get lost / stolen / broken in the cargo hold.
And if they force to you check them then they will be forced to take liability for them.
The measure was introduced over fears a bomb could be concealed in a device.
There is already a bomb in the device. It's called a charged lithium-ion battery. Have you seen the energy density in one of those things?
Overcharging explosion
The dogs can smell explosives and drugs.
It's better to have many dogs doing the job in the airports, train stations, buses, etc.
No. He allegedly revealed specifics from an operation in a particular location in Syria
But who was the idiot that gave Trump that information in the first place? He has no "need to know" those sorts of details.
Outrage was always there against Trump, from the deep state, but the moment was wrong. CNN couldn't say "Trump is leaking to Egypt:" everybody would get just how fucking dumb the "leak" story is. Apparently, the fake Russia leak story resonated better with the libtard focus groups.
Remember Obama going to Egypt to gin up "Muslim Brotherhood," a,k.a. "moderate Islamic terrorists" who then over-threw Mubarak? Remember the Arab Spring funded by Obama's State Department? If not for the Egyptian military standing up to that shit (which Obama raged over, and imposed sanctions), you would now have ISIS also in Egypt.
Imagine how the Nobama snake and his deep-staters feel now, that Trump is starting to kill off their terror creations?
>commander-in-chief doesn't have a need to know what his forces may or may not be doing
OK sauce boss.
Remember united beaks guitars ? Think about United breaks macbooks. not to mention the infosec people at many companies melting down over executives lousing control over there laptops for that long ext.
The whole point of these laptop measures is that, supposedly, the bombs cannot be detected at security.
Yes, because they don't do as intensive of a screening of you and your carryon vs. the luggage that goes into the plane.
The chemical sniffers that most people don't have to go through in security lines and are impractical to do on all laptops can easily be done on ALL luggage...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Not just laptops, but also expensive camera gear. I've got over $5,000 worth of lenses and cameras that I travel with, and my sister-in-law carries about $10,000 worth of gear. This has us seriously rethinking future travel plans, sticking with destinations we can drive to.
But Russia isn't really that interested in fighting ISIS. That's a side-effect of helping Assad. So no, Russia and Israel are not "on the same side", particularly if an Israel agent embedded in the Assad regime gets revealed.
You know, this has only been going on since 2011, so I'm not sure how people could still be confused about the details of the conflict.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
I'm sure the three letter agencies have long been in the habit of keeping the President apprised of important operations, seeing as normally the President is a sensible, sane, intelligent human being capable of rational thought and reflection. I'm thinking going forward not much in the way of classified information is ever going to reach the Oval Office.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
And we supposedly know this, how? Anonymous sources?
Isn't it obvious. Simple profiling would save lots of effort. If they don't want to be profiled they should clean up their ranks.
Passanger: can i carry this e-book that's my Quran in electronic format?
Federal Agent: no, you can't.
Passanger: and can i carry this book that's my Quran in paper format?
Federal Agent: yes, you can.
2nd Federal Agent: wait a moment, i've to inspect it.
Surprise! There's a bomb inside of this fake book! Catch him!.
It is not Assad that is making the laptop bombs! Therefore, the leaks are not about Israeli agents spying on Assad's regime.
You seem very confused. CNN somehow says ISIS==Assad, and this is VERY wrong. They will also not tell you that Obama/McCain actually supported the "moderate islamic terrorists." Israel hates them both. On the street in Jerusalem, "Obama" and "dangerous snake" are used interchangeably.
Don't take my word for it, go to http://www.jpost.com/ and educate yourself. Yes, Syria, Israel, Iraq, and Russia are actually "friends" on this one.
True, Russia is not as interested as Israel in bombing ISIS, but still pretty interested. They mostly bomb the "moderate" terrorists because of geographic proximity, but they do often kill ISIS guys.
It's the reverse for Israel: they mostly bomb ISIS as a bigger threat, but do kill off Obama's "moderates" when they get a chance.
Oh, shut up you bloody moron. Not only have you no clue about what CNN reported - they have reported about everything you claim they haven't -, you also have no clue about anything else you're talking about. There could be a any kind of connection that would compromise an operation, e.g. the US information could come from an Israeli informant inside Assad's security apparatus. Or it could be from Israeli operatives who work inside Syria and could be identified by Assad's security forces from location information and other clues.
Also, Israel does not bomb ISIS, unless you have special top secret information nobody else has access to, and the reason is very simple, so simple that even an idiot like you could understand it: If Israel would start aerial attacks on ISIS positions, then the anti-ISIS coalition would quickly fall apart, because there are many Muslim countries in it.
You're not doing the old starter pistol in the checked camera bag trick? It's legally a gun and needs to be inspected and then locked, it's carefully monitored until it gets back in your hands and unlocked.
I try to stay up on foreign affairs but the current shitstorms have rendered most articles useless
Yeah, it's gotten really bad.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Outrage was always there against Trump, from the deep state, but the moment was wrong.
Oh, and how on earth would you 'know' that? Are you deeply inside the "deep state" or what? Doesn't seem a very deep state to me, if every conspiracy nutcase knows everything about what's going on in it.
Sorry if I were condescending. I also had no idea what the CNN reports these days (stopped watching since they went full-retard mode on Trump back in August 2016. Occasionally tune it for 2 mins to verify they are still in it).
Here is the actual statement that Israel made in response to the liberal "leak" hysterics. Educate yourself if you can.
Do you agree, or not, that Russia, Israel, Syria, and now possibly the US of A are fighting on the same side?
Do you therefore admit that, the entire libtard premise of "zOMG Russia Leaks" is full of shit?
LOL, yeah, why not just ban 1.8 billion people from flying. I'm sure the terrorists would never get the idea of claiming that they're Christians or atheists, because their Muslim faith forbids them to lie. You win the 2017 US National Security Award!
Not really. Even under Obamba, the US simply "informed" the EU of new traveling-restictions, that was never a negotiation.
I'm sure the three letter agencies have long been in the habit of keeping the President apprised of important operations
He needs to know the broad strokes. He has no need to know the details, and certainly not "actionable intelligence".
seeing as normally the President is a sensible, sane, intelligent human being capable of rational thought and reflection.
But we already knew that wasn't true for Trump, and we have known that for a long time. Someone gave Trump information that he didn't need in order to make themselves look important and curry favor.
If I give a two year old child an expensive vase, and he breaks it, is that his fault or mine? We already know that Trump has the maturity of a two year old, so instead of blaming Trump for being Trump, we should be blaming his staff for giving him something he should have never been trusted with.
Dude, I am sharing my observations on a public internet forum. I report what makes sense to me based on what I learned from Cernovich and Scott Adams (both with a, frankly, amazing track record of making highly reliable, reasoned predictions).
I have been following both for about one year, and can see they are basically 60-70% correct (on important things, 100% correct) in their reasoned predictions. I follow also many others, and they all have below 10% track record.
There's an ongoing joke about Scott Adams owning a time machine: the guy is just plain spooky about completely crazy stuff (go back read his block if interested. I can confirm that the dates of articles are fully correct and there are no retrospective updates; I was reading them usually same-day). The only time he was wrong is when he was convinced, for about five days, that the pussy-grab tape will cost Trump his election.
What makes you believe that is true or required? Unless the President of the US is directing an operation there is no need for a President to know the details of an operation. Consider the difference in briefing a President on the results of an operation 'Mr. President we have credible evidence from a covert operation we've been running that there will be an attack on a commercial airliner bound for Russia in the next month.'...vs 'Mr. President we have a mole in Assad's regime that told us about a potential attack on a commercial airliner bound for Russian in the next month.'
Even if the information is more specific such as 'bound for Russia from an airport in the Middle East' or even 'from Syria' the facts of how the information was gathered is entirely superfluous & unnecessary to the President to know.
What value is there to any sitting President to know it was a 'mole in Assad's regime' vs just the threat? In both cases the President needs to trust his security advisers that the statement is true, a President has no need to know the details of how the information was gathered. That a President has the 'right & authority' to know doesn't matter. And this has nothing to do at all with a given President's intelligence (as you see it).
This isn't a question of what a President COULD know but what he 'needs to know', just like everybody else. NO CEO, CIO etc. etc. EVER really knows the actual details of how the organization is running & when it's a country the size of the US there's no way the President is told the details of how the information was collected UNLESS there is some decision, guidance etc. that the President must give. For instance, it's reasonable to assume that Obama was apprised of the exact details of the operation to kill Osama Bin Laden & gave the order when needed to go through with it, just as Trump had to know the exact details of the missiles fired at Syria and had to give the order to execute the operation. And guess what? O look Trump can keep a secret until it's unnecessary to do so (e.g. the world needs to be told).
EVEN if we assume Trump was given a level of detail of the threat that it could be reasonably guessed that the only way to know the information is if it came from a 'mole/spy' in somebodies organization is it morally wrong for the President to share that information? E.g. let's assume that the information was about a specific flight on a specific airline leaving at a specific time of day from a specific airport, is it morally wrong for the President to share that information with Russia so they could deal with the threat as they see fit? I'll even let you assume that 'Russia doesn't care'...e.g. that they helped plan it and are willing for the passengers to be killed...is it morally wrong for the President to share such information? Now, set aside your utter hate & dislike for Trump & think logically about what YOU would do if you had such information & cared about saving the passengers...what would YOU do while at the same time not trying to further inflame international relations...here's the options:
1) You tell Russia that you know of this threat & expect them to do something about it.
1a) You also know Russia has to be behind it or otherwise somehow involved. So it now becomes "we know you're planning this, we'll give you a day to call it off or we tell the world."
1b) You do not know the Russian's are behind it & have no reason to believe that's true.
So, in both cases you may give away sufficient detail that some spy (or even half a dozen) are at threat of being killed (assuming of course that you didn't get them out of the operation...and THAT is a huge assumption) vs 100, 200 or 300 'innocent women, children & men' are saved. Especially the 'children', 'think of the children'.
The shit storm that would come down on Trump's head if it was later revealed he knew this information & did NOT share it would pale in comparison (r
But who was the idiot that gave Trump that information in the first place? He has no "need to know" those sorts of details.
The real question is rather: who was the bloody idiot from Israeli government that decided it was ok to give such information to this administration, when late last year they were weary of Trump becoming president and the security concern that would be... Guess now they are thinking twice and probably following on their initial assessment and will stop sharing information with this administration, regardless of what politics charades you see on the with the Israeli government saying "they support this administration", it's just that: a political charade!
He receives this information as part of his daily intelligence briefing. Trump has substantially pruned down the number of pages of briefing that he receives (because he doesn't like to read) and has requested instead that they include images and maps.
Supposedly, the information that Trump received in his briefing did not contain the name of the actual agent, but the details were specific enough that what he told the Russians could easily be used by Assad to ID the source.
If the Laptops are Banned, then they should supply "pre checked" laptops to everyone who flies. If the passenger needs files or programs, they should bring them on a flash drive. If they need the "computing power" then the airports should have a "rental" of high quality laptops.. Problems solved...
There might be a concealed bomb on the laptop...also known as the battery. I'm not even talking about some cheap chinese crap failing and melting down. You crack the casing and stab it with a pen. Tada, instant pyrotechnics. That could probably do some damage at least to the air in the plane if not the plane's actual structure.
Nah, they'd just tack on a "User Agreement" to the ticket saying that they offer the checked luggage service "As is".
That's wary. You can't be weary of something before it's even happened.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
The US just bombed a Syrian airbase couple of weeks ago, so no, Russia and the US are not on the same side.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Do you agree, or not, that Russia, Israel, Syria, and now possibly the US of A are fighting on the same side?
Absolutely not. The conflict in Syria is multi-lateral. Often, different parties end up attacking the same party, but that in no way makes them allies, it just means they're attacking the same party. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" is rarely true, and it's clearly false in several ways in this case.
The situation in Syria is more like a barroom brawl than a typical war.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
Wow, what total cognitive dissonance AND poor spelling...I don't normally point out spelling mistakes (it's 'manners' not 'manors' the latter being a 'large estate' so 'Dubya' may or may not have had one) but it is SO bad along with the cognitive dissonance that it seems appropriate to point out to further demonstrate how STUPID you are.
The story is about the US & EU officials collaborating suggesting that Trump does not or would not do this is proven WRONG on it's face in the article so your attempt at a swipe @ Trump is so wrong that it demonstrates how stupid, ignorant & full of hate for Trump you are since you clearly do not live in 'reality'.
I feel sorry for you, you should seek psychiatric help, there's a really cool world out here that I'm sure you'd like to experience rather than that clearly scary fantasy one you live in.
This ban is economical. Trying to protect Lufthansa, British Air and other European flag carriers against the competition of Gulf, Emirates and Turkish on long-haul flights. Security in Istanbul Ataturk airport is three tiered while you get through one check point in Barcelona (for example)
If, you're arriving in Newark, NJ airport:
Then, your laptop will be arriving to the highest bidder on ebay. You won't get any compensation for your stolen items...
If, your laptop has any special cooling:
Then, good news is you'll be getting a new laptop! As your laptop has been recently safely detonated, just in case it's an IED. (You'll just need to fill-out a lost baggage claim form).
Then again, it could always be worse than the above. I have another friend's story. He's an English only speaker, and for business went from China to Singapore via North Korea. (It apparently had a 2 week lay over in pyongyang's finest prison!) When he finally made it back to his work in the US, he was LIVID went he confronted the company's travel rep! He also, went a bit crazy when his boss said he wouldn't be getting paid, as he didn't complete any work while in prison. Needless to say, the company paid him, and he signed an agreement that he wouldn't sue the company for endangering his life.
(This was back before Kim Jong Un became the leader, or else he might not have made it back at all).
Ok, so the Israelis are illegally in Syria, trying to overthrow the government of a sovereign country, probably even operating un-uniformed, i.e.: as spies--risking death penalties in such cases during war time.... And their possible exposure is bad in what way?
"Trump!!", the new Godwin.
I had a Police lieutenant acquaintance have gun stolen from a locked gun case flying out of Philly to New Orleans ten years ago. They know the theft occurred while still in Philly, yet were still unable to find out who did it, even with all the cameras and surveillance. The case arrived in NO, still locked, but empty. http://www.warriortalk.com/sho... It hasn't gotten any better since then. Also, flying into foreign countries with differing gun laws might not be a good idea.
The parents are just pointing out that you have to ban laptops on all flights or not at all.
And that is the point I disagree with.
From some countries, the risk of this happening is simply much lower than others.
In particular some airports like Egypt, it may be MUCH easier to bribe guards to bring anything into the secured areas (that was being reported around the time the plane from Egypt blew up).
That is why it makes sense to ban laptops from some airports and not others...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Their operatives are embedded within ISIS, dipshit.
The airlines don't want to take liability for laptops that get lost / stolen / broken in the cargo hold.
And if they force to you check them then they will be forced to take liability for them.
Forced by who?
If you care about it you better insure it yourself...
Maxim 29: The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more. No less.
"'Tis great confidence in a friend to tell him your faults, greater to tell him his." --Poor Richard's Almanac
But Russia isn't really that interested in fighting ISIS. That's a side-effect of helping Assad. So no, Russia and Israel are not "on the same side",
Also it's pretty daft to think there are only two "sides" to a conflict. There are almost as many sides as there are interested parties in a war. Look at the amount of petty politicking happened between the Allies in WWII (not even bothering to include the USSR in that, just the western Allies).
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
The Egypt will bring his laptop in cargo of the Egypt plane.
Which will be found via sniffers (remember that luggage has enter go trough U.S. Customs screening ALSO) and he will be arrested.
By doing this internationally you've also doubled the chances luggage scans will find your laptop bomb.
Great plan Sherlock!
Apparently YOU are the one who cannot read since that is what I started with...
Since you're just going in circles I've leave the last response to you.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Helping ISIS probably...
"Trump!!", the new Godwin.