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New Solar Plane Plans Non-Stop Flight Around The World (bloomberg.com)

An anonymous reader quotes Bloomberg: [A] Russian tycoon and his Renova Group plan a record-breaking effort to send a plane around the world nonstop using only the power of the sun. If all goes well, a single pilot will fly for five days straight at altitudes of up to 10 miles, about a third higher than commercial airliners. The project isn't just a stunt. The glider-style airplane with a 36-meter (120-foot) wingspan will be a test of technologies that are set to be used to build new generations of autonomous craft for the military and business, say aerospace experts. They will fly continuously, have far greater reach and control than satellites and expand broadcast, communication and spying capabilities around the globe... "Our flight should prove that it's possible to make long-distance flights using solar energy," said Mikhail Lifshitz, Renova's director of high-tech asset development and a qualified pilot-instructor. A "flying laboratory" test-plane will be ready by year-end, Lifshitz said in an interview.
The plane will conserve power by slowly gliding down from the high altitudes at night -- without ever touching the ground. In comparison a solar plane (partially funded by Google) already circled the earth last year -- but it took 22 days, and made 17 different stops.

35 comments

  1. World record for staying awake? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    TFA Says there will only be a single pilot. If the attempt succeeds, this will demonstrate either how someone can (legally?) stay awake for five days AND command an aircraft during that time. There will be some interesting legalities to be defined here, bearing in mind the different national regulations governing drugs, pseudo-autonomous aircraft and combining the two.

    1. Re:World record for staying awake? by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      Really, why is there a pilot? Think of all that wasted energy spent for life support? And who wants to be stuck up there for five days?

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    2. Re:World record for staying awake? by Deadstick · · Score: 1

      And who wants to be stuck up there for five days?

      Burt Rutan and Jeana Yeager, for two. https://airandspace.si.edu/col...

    3. Re:World record for staying awake? by VanessaE · · Score: 1

      The article doesn't say it, but I imagine the pilot will sleep at night, since the plane will glide down during that time anyway. All it would really need is some kind of alarm that's sensitive to time, light, and altitude.

    4. Re:World record for staying awake? by will_die · · Score: 1

      Without a human up there is it really a plane vs being just a drone. And if it just classified as a drone does the size matter.

  2. Capacitors! by mspohr · · Score: 1

    Interesting that the plane will use supercapacitors rather than batteries to store energy for use at night. I guess power to weight is favorable.
    He divested from oil (smart move) and into tech and has a large supercapacitor factory.

    --
    I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    1. Re:Capacitors! by avandesande · · Score: 1

      Sounds like bologna to me. Coming from Russian and all that....

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    2. Re:Capacitors! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would guess the capacitors are easier to charge with any excess energy the panels produce, and the whole system probably more reliable at the altitude the plane flies (temperature).

    3. Re:Capacitors! by willy_me · · Score: 1

      I second that. At 50 deg below zero, it is hard for a light (LiPoly) battery to work correctly. This requires heating the battery modules to ensure they do not drop below freezing. But supercaps hold ~100 times less energy per unit weight so I suppose it depends on space limitations and the overhead associated with using LiPoly batteries. Scaled up (ie, 787), batteries are probably better. For this application, who knows...

    4. Re:Capacitors! by FrankSchwab · · Score: 2

      As a spec-built glider, it would be interesting to see if they considered incorporating supercaps into the structure, for example, as the center layer of any honeycomb material. You have to carry the weight anyway; replacing or augmenting something which doesn't provide power seems like a win.

      --
      And the worms ate into his brain.
    5. Re:Capacitors! by rew · · Score: 2

      There are two things that could be important. One is power density and the other is energy density. You could express these in a per-volume measure, but in this case per-weight is important.
      Similarly, in this case, it is the ENERGY density that matters.

      For perspective, Tesla optimizes their batteries for energy density. But still they get an impressive power-density. IT seems they hit the power-limit when you do a ludicrous mode 0-60MPH. So the 0-60 time improves when you go from 85kWh to 100kWh: not only do you have a larger energy capacity, but also more power.

      Looking for numbers for a back-of-the-envelope calculation, I found an article by Deepak P Dubai that claims 2 mWh/cm^3. That would be 7.2 J/cm^3.
      I have a 10Ah 22V battery that weighs 1.2kg. If I assume a density of about 1g/cm^3, I get 666J/cm^3 for that battery. Almost a difference of a factor of 100.

      Really I could see the gap closing , but not by a factor of 100 in a few years.

    6. Re: Capacitors! by mspohr · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the research and calculations.
      My impression was that capacitors were not efficient and your calculations indicate that.
      I guess they are using them because they have a capacitor factory.
      This article confirms your calculations and has a nice chart.
      http://berc.berkeley.edu/stora...

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    7. Re:Capacitors! by surd1618 · · Score: 1

      Then how is the pilot going to stay warm? And why is there a pilot? The whole plan seems half-baked to me.

  3. Shouldn't that be by Yurka · · Score: 2

    "Our flight should prove that it's possible to make long-distance flights using solar energy if you only ever need to fly east"?

    --
    I can assure you, the best way to get rid of dragons is to have one of your own.
    1. Re:Shouldn't that be by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "Our flight should prove that it's possible to make long-distance flights using solar energy if you only ever need to fly east"?

      One proposed use of solar planes is as communications relays, to replace satellites. They would circle the earth continuously, one trailing the previous by about 200 km. They could fly either direction, but flying east wins in both sunlight and prevailing winds (at least in mid latitudes).

      Using solar drones instead of satellites for communication is cheaper not just in launch cost, but in the cost of the electronics. Satellite electronics need to be rad-hard, but also need to be super redundant because otherwise a single bad chip can cost $100M. But with a solar drone, if there is a failure in the relay electronics, you just land it and swap out the board.

    2. Re:Shouldn't that be by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Not to mention the round trip times are a lot better... Satellite's latency makes it a non-starter for any kind of interactive traffic.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:Shouldn't that be by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Not if you have a ~800 km altitude constellation.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    4. Re:Shouldn't that be by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Not if you have a ~800 km altitude constellation.

      Round trip latency to a satellite 800km away: 5ms
      Round trip latency to a solar drone 100km away: 0.7ms

    5. Re:Shouldn't that be by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      So you're only considering situations where both endpoints are in the same small geographic area and communicating directly over the single drone? That appears to be rather limited in scope.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    6. Re:Shouldn't that be by Solandri · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't a balloon/blimp with a solar powered heating element to heat up the air inside (to maintain lower density than the surrounding air) and rudimentary thrusters for some maneuverability be cheaper still? You're not relying on a (relatively) complex set of electric motors for lift, just a simple resistor (heating element).

    7. Re:Shouldn't that be by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The other advantages of drones over satellites are that you can use a lower power transmitter on the ground device, saving battery power, and you ca use frequencies that don't reach orbit.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    8. Re:Shouldn't that be by OppMan29 · · Score: 1

      unless you cant land because you are over an ocean... then you are SOL

  4. BA just demonstrated non-stop flights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just ground your fleet - non-stop flights galore.

  5. but we cannot have solar powered cars appliances.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    etc.. what a surprise? some still calling this 'weather'? cease fire stand down,, hugs not thugs,, end wmd on credit genocides in our lifetime.. that's the spirit.. thanks again

  6. fully equipped solar powered RVs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that would be so homey & frugal at the same time..? sing along.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-kA3UtBj4M

  7. Russia :( by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    People might be impressed if it was not Russia. Russia has more land, more mineral resources, more technical acumen and more educated people than pretty much anywhere else on the planet. It's GDP is equivalent to Connecticut. Bad manglement.

    1. Re:Russia :( by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Boring factcheck: Russian GDP is 6.5x of Connecticut's one.

  8. Why not use airships? by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I think it's fine to use devices in the atmosphere to relay our communications signals, but why planes? Wouldn't it be better to have some sort of a blimp with thin film solar cells on its upper surface? These could provide energy for maneuvering the various layers of moving air to maintain a reasonably constant position. Alternately, it could just be at the end of a long tether. I think that's a much more elegant way of keeping up altitude overnight.

    1. Re:Why not use airships? by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 2

      why planes? Wouldn't it be better to have some sort of a blimp with thin film solar cells on its upper surface?

      At high altitude an airship will be exposed to a lot of radiation which will quickly degrade all plastics. In an airship this will quickly lead to a hull integrity failure and require replacing the entire hull because it's under high levels of stress 100% of the time. In an airplane, even if the plastic parts have reduced integrity, it will still function even if parts of the wing begin to fleck off.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    2. Re:Why not use airships? by dbIII · · Score: 2

      If only a pile of organic chemists in the 1980s and 1990s had worked on that so we wouldn't have to worry so much about the UV degradation (ie. "radiation"). Hang on - they did!
      There are probably real show stoppers with weather, buoyancy etc but you managed to squarely hit something fairly irrelevant as if deliberately testing for ignorance.

  9. Ill question that by Sla$hPot · · Score: 0

    That green thing (T-62 on the linked page provided) will take more than solar power to fly.

    1. Re:Ill question that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The T-62 was never meant to fly; you might have confused it with the A-40.

  10. Quick calculations... by rew · · Score: 1

    If your plane has a glide ratio of 1:60, and weighs 1600kg then to fly 40000km, you need 40.10^6/60*1600 = 11GJ of energy.
    If your plane has 200m^2 of solar panels with 45kW peak output, you have to realize that the sun is shining on the wrong side of your panels (and the earth is likely in the way) half the time. Also even when it's on the right side, it won't be perpendicular. You can't turn your panels to the sun because you're using them as a wing too. So you can only expect a about 25% of peak power over longer periods (more than a day). So, in five days you get 5*24*3600s*11.5kW = 4.9GJ of energy. from the solar panels...

    There is a factor of two of discrepancy between the back-of-the-envelope and what they say they will achieve. Twice as efficient solar panels? I don't think so. This 45kW/200m^2 is already state-of-the-art. Getting two times more wing surface means you won't be able to fly as fast, and it's going to be a challenge to keep the weight at 1600kg.
    Talking about speed, 40000 km in 5 days means 333 km/h. or 92m/s. Gliding at 1:60 means you need to make up for 1.5m per second, or 1600*9.8*1.5 = 24kW. About twice what you can expect from your solar panels.
    But if we take 200m^2 of wing area, and 8kg/m^2 of wingloading, you'll fly at 10m/s at sea level. Fly at 25% atmospheric pressure 13km? you'll go twice as fast. They want to go 92m/s or 4.6 times faster. You need about 21 times less wing-area to fly 92m/s at 13km height. That's not going to happen.

    The numbers for weight, wing surface and flying speed at sealevel were taken from "solar impulse". The 1:60 glide ratio is a "good sailplane". Note that such a sailplane won't have props sticking out, or pods to house motors.

    It could be that they manage to improve their average speed enormously by using the jetstream. Not sure if it will make up for the big difference in energy requirements....

    1. Re:Quick calculations... by Falconhell · · Score: 2

      From memory, The FES electric self launch system fitted to the new Alisport Silent, and LAK Mini self launching 13.5m sailplanes have 4kw/hr capacity from 2 x 15Kg LIPO packs, 22kw motor, controller and charger 20kg for an allup weight of 52kg.
      This gives very good self launch, and about 45 min range at over 60kt, depending on conditions and pilot skills.
      Cruise uses 4kw continous.
      It might be possible to use mountain wave lift to cover significant distances too, particularly useful at night, supplementing the onboard charging system, even regeneterative charging using the motor could be possible.
      The Perlan project would seem a good start to building this sort of sailplane.

      http://www.front-electric-sust...

      http://lak.lt/models/minilak/