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SpaceX To Refly a Dragon Cargo Spacecraft (arstechnica.com)

Thelasko writes: Tomorrow's scheduled resupply mission to the International Space Station will mark the second time its Dragon capsule has visited the station. Ars Technica reports: "This particular Dragon spacecraft was sent to the International Space Station in September 2014, and it delivered nearly 2.5 tons of cargo to the orbiting laboratory. The Dragon returned to Earth about a month later, splashing down into the ocean. It is not clear how much processing SpaceX has had to undertake to ready the spacecraft for its second flight to the station, nor has the company released a cost estimate. It also had to manufacture a new 'trunk,' the unpressurized rear section of the vehicle, and solar panels."

41 comments

  1. s/time its Dragon/time this particular Dragon/ by phayes · · Score: 4, Informative

    Dragon has flown to ISS on multiple occasions but this will be the first time that a Dragon capsule that has previously flown to ISS is being launched for a second visit.

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    1. Re:s/time its Dragon/time this particular Dragon/ by pr0t0 · · Score: 2

      I'm curious to see if they use the Super Draco thrusters to land the Dragon capsule on land or one of the barges. That is, if this particular capsule is even outfitted with the thrusters.

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    2. Re:s/time its Dragon/time this particular Dragon/ by phayes · · Score: 2

      You'll probably have to wait for Dragon 2 to see that and Space-X will almost certainly perform the first test with with another dummy payload like the wheel of cheese they put in the first Dragon before Nasa accepts it's use for returning anything from ISS.

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      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    3. Re:s/time its Dragon/time this particular Dragon/ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No, this is a cargo Dragon, and has no provision for propulsive landing.

      The Dragon v2, or Crew Dragon, will fly for the 1st time later this year, but will use parachutes for the initial test.

    4. Re:s/time its Dragon/time this particular Dragon/ by MirthScout · · Score: 2

      The Dragon capsule (aka Dragon 1 capsule) doesn't have Super Draco thrusters. It is only capable of parachute splashdown at sea.

      The Dragon 2 capsule is the one with Super Draco thrusters. First flight of a Dragon 2 capsule is currently planned for November 2017.

    5. Re:s/time its Dragon/time this particular Dragon/ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shuttles were "reused" after being rebuilt tile by tile for months at a time. The Shuttle was a dead-end white elephant approach.

      Old school metal cylinders pointing "up" like in the 1960s are the correct approach, and if they can reuse parts in a quicker way, it's good.

    6. Re:s/time its Dragon/time this particular Dragon/ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Space Shuttle can better be described as 'refurbish-able' rather than reusable. And it took thousands of workers to prepare it for the next launch.

      Currently the capsule is also more refurbishable than reusable, but they are working on that. If all goes according to plan the Dragon 2 capsules and the block 5 Falcon 9 will be just about fully reusable. The Trunk is ditched so that is new every time.

    7. Re:s/time its Dragon/time this particular Dragon/ by Immerman · · Score: 1

      The Space Shuttle required extensive refits after every launch, with each refit costing more than a disposable Falcon 9 launch. It was an interesting idea ruined by design by political committee.

      And there have only been four total X-37B launches, with both vehicles having been launched twice. Hardly routine, though hopefully it will become so.

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    8. Re:s/time its Dragon/time this particular Dragon/ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      good luck buying a seat (or cargo space) on a shuttle or X-37B

      you are so dismissive of re-using a Dragon capsule, but there are no re-usable capsules available for anyone to use today.

  2. Tomorrow = actually today by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Story was written yesterday. The launch is today (Thursday) at 21:55 UTC.

  3. Pre-launch NASA briefing by JoshuaZ · · Score: 4, Informative

    The pre-launch briefing was live yesterday and a recording is at https://www.youtube.com/watch?... . It has a lot details both about the Dragon and its cargo.

  4. why do they ditch the solar panels? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder why they don't transfer the solar panels to the space station and do reentry on internal batteries only? Surely the station could use them as additional, or at least spare, panels.

    1. Re:why do they ditch the solar panels? by phayes · · Score: 2

      Because Dragon still needs them as the onboard batteries are not of sufficient size to last from ISS uncoupling all the way down to splashdown.
      Because adding them to ISS would take more work than their marginal addition would bring.

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    2. Re:why do they ditch the solar panels? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How much energy do they produce in the minutes/hours between uncoupling and landing?

      And how much energy would a battery of the equivalent mass store?

      Intuitively, I cannot see how solar panels would win over batteries, for such a short duration. Sure, if they were flying for weeks at a time, I could see them overtaking. Anyone want to run some numbers?

    3. Re:why do they ditch the solar panels? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2

      I wonder why they don't transfer the solar panels to the space station and do reentry on internal batteries only? Surely the station could use them as additional, or at least spare, panels.

      I think we can bet that if SpaceX builds a space station, it'll have solar cells with modular connectors on the edges, and each supply vessel can have its detached and added to the space station.

      But ISS was designed by NASA, which has several conflicting priorities.

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    4. Re: why do they ditch the solar panels? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      It takes 3-4 days to reach the ISS (due to phasing). That's far from a trivial amount of time to run off batteries.

    5. Re:why do they ditch the solar panels? by Immerman · · Score: 1

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... says the solar panels have a peak production of 4kW, and in orbit they can probably pull peak production pretty continuously.

      And while I couldn't find anything with a quick search on the time between separation and landing, this press release http://www.spacex.com/sites/sp... says it took about two days between launch and docking with the space station, so it might not be completely unreasonable to expect something similar for the return.

      As for solar panels versus batteries - if the return flight only takes hours, batteries might indeed be a better solution - except for one thing: You already need the panels for that long flight up, so they're a sunk weight/cost. And you only need enough batteries to supply power before solar panel deployment and during infrequent maneuvers (orbital flight is mostly a matter of coasting between high-efficiency burn points) - the rest of the time you can be in an optimal solar-gain orientation. So the real question is, would adding enough additional batteries to fly back on battery power alone be worth the added weight?

      Well that, and the question of whether it's worth the risks and difficulty of performing an EVA to transfer the panels to the ISS, despite the fact that they aren't really designed with ISS requirements in mind anyway, and would only increase the ISS's 120kW peak generating capacity by ~3%, while adding clutter that would complicate more well-conceived future upgrades and other EVAs.

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    6. Re:why do they ditch the solar panels? by TWX · · Score: 1

      But ISS was designed by NASA, which has several conflicting priorities.

      That is literally the most polite way I've ever heard used to refer to the morass and earmarking that is NASA's budgeting and operations.

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  5. Will we find out how much processing for reuse? by mykepredko · · Score: 3

    As people have pointed out, the various Space Shuttles were reused quite a few times and the X-37 has flown multiple times. They both require significant refurbishment before they could be flown again - the Space Shuttle required basically a reskinning of the thermal protection tiles and for the X-37 it sounds like the tiles are good, but it requires significant refurbishment inside the spacecraft after it's long stays in orbit. It would be interesting to see how much work is required on the Dragon (and SpaceX hasn't really explained what needs to be done to refly a Falcon booster).

    The problem is, if SpaceX has very efficient systems for turning around Dragons and Falcon boosters then they may want to keep it secret to minimize competition. On the other hand, if they have a very poor process, they want to keep it secret to give the appearance that they know what they are doing.

    1. Re:Will we find out how much processing for reuse? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      We'll probably find out eventually, by which time the process will have changed anyway. They're still evolving it. At this point they will be doing massive amounts of inspection work both to ensure flight readiness, and to determine what is actually necessary for refurbishment.

      --
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    2. Re:Will we find out how much processing for reuse? by Immerman · · Score: 2

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
      There are only two X-37s, and they've each only been launched into orbit twice. Technically that is "multiple times", but not nearly so many as the term suggests - only one flight-proven refurbishment each.

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    3. Re:Will we find out how much processing for reuse? by TWX · · Score: 1

      Arguably they're still in beta-test, at least as far as the technology to return the various crafts to the planet in a reusable state is concerned, and it sounds like they're well aware of that.

      This arguably is a long-term game. We've been putting stuff into space in one form or another for 60 years, and up until now the vehicles were either disposed-of or else required so much refurb that perhaps disposable vehicles would have made more sense financially. The company that manages to re-fly and thus reduce customer costs is positioned to be the most financially successful space-launch company for the next few decades, possibly to the end of many existing players, at least in this particular market.

      Reusable rockets could see far-reaching uses. Imagine if the technology scaled to allow for suborbital point-to-point flights for passenger livery, where the rockets could return to their air/spaceports for refuel/reuse, while the spaceliner glides to its destination port in a fraction of the time it takes to make such long commercial flights.

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    4. Re:Will we find out how much processing for reuse? by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Reusable rockets could see far-reaching uses. Imagine if the technology scaled to allow for suborbital point-to-point flights for passenger livery, where the rockets could return to their air/spaceports for refuel/reuse, while the spaceliner glides to its destination port in a fraction of the time it takes to make such long commercial flights.

      From what I understand the atmospheric shell where you get any significant updraft as a plane is pretty thin compared to a rocket trajectory and if you try to skim the surface you'd get massive atmospheric resistance during launch and still not all that far gliding. So you'd end up more like a sub-orbital rocket and suffer all the problems of re-entry with a heat shield.

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    5. Re:Will we find out how much processing for reuse? by jeti · · Score: 1

      They are reusing the hull, the thrusters and some of the avionics boxes. The heat shield has been replaced and the unpressurized trunk wasn't recovered. Still trying to find the source.

    6. Re:Will we find out how much processing for reuse? by jeti · · Score: 2
      Found it:

      According to Koenigsmann, SpaceX technicians replaced several items that were exposed to salt water after splashdown, such as batteries and the capsule’s heat shield. But the hull, thrusters, harnessing, propellant tanks, and some avionics boxes are original, he said. “I can tell you the majority of this Dragon has been in space before,” Koenigsmann said.

      Source

  6. Ran the numbers: by NEDHead · · Score: 1

    7 came in first, with 1 coming up fast at the end to make it a race. 5 and 8 were neck and neck, with 8 taking third by a nose.

  7. not much work needed for reuse. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Late 2017 or early 2018 they are aiming to re-fly a falcon within 24 hours of landing, with no refurbishment (just refiling the tanks)

    The first one that was reflown had much more extensive work done on it (all components that can wear were replaced)

    The grids used to steer during re-entry are currently aluminum and replaced after each flight. They are going to replace them with titanium (at which point these will be the largest titanium castings anyone knows of in the world from what I've heard), at which point they expect to not need to replace them after each flight.

    The stated goal is to be able to fly 10 times with minimal work and then get a refurbishment for another 10 flights (repeated up to 10 times)

    1. Re:not much work needed for reuse. by mykepredko · · Score: 1

      Thank you - I knew about the aluminum steering grid issue, I didn't know they had a goal for such a quick turnaround.

    2. Re:not much work needed for reuse. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depends on your definition of "re-fly". I believe Musk has stated that he literally wants to refuel them on the drone ship out at sea and fly them back to the cape and then turn around and re-fly them with a payload after some checks. I have a hard time seeing that happening but I suppose its possible. Despite all of the doom predictions from the established launch contractors the first stages seem to be coming down with almost unerring precision at this point, which at the very least indicates that the engines are coming down in fairly good shape. Its pretty likely they're going to have some wear problems (as you noted with the grid fins) but once you're getting an intact craft back on a regular basis it generally becomes a pretty simple engineering/maintenance problem to track parts that are wearing and redesign/replace them.

    3. Re:not much work needed for reuse. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the interviews after the first reflown booster, Musk commented that if everything does well, they will have about 20 'flight tested' boosters on the ground by the end of 2017.

      I hadn't heard of the idea of flying them back from the drone ships, but landing one at the launch complex and flying it again within 24 hours is doable if you trust the on-board instrumentation to tell you what's going on.

      adding fuel tanks to the drone ships to fly the boosters back to the launch site is an interesting idea, but there are a lot of extra items that would be needed to do so. It seems easier and cheaper to just outfit more drone ships.

  8. Re:oh my god! by TWX · · Score: 1

    This reads like an old UNIX Fortune entry.

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  9. Trunk Junk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since craft departing the ISS routinely carry garbage and unwanted materials and supplies, did the Dragon return home with junk in the trunk?

    I'll see myself out.

  10. NASA is not interested in recycling components by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If it was +3% capacity for each flight, that would add up over time.

    But NASA is not interested in recycling components. If it was, they would have had the shuttles carry their external tanks up to orbit and kept them around, or would have/let SpaceX park their second stages in some orbit to be salvaged and re-used instead of having them re-enter and burn up.

    Yes, it would take a little more fuel to do so, but not much. Just like it takes a little more fuel to be able to carry the landing equipment on a Falcon 9 first stage. Most missions have (and had) enough capacity in the raw lifting ability of the rockets to have done this.

    Growing up, the Science Fiction authors always assumed that the first real orbital bases would be constructed largely using re-purposed cast-off components. But NASA and the ISS are all specially designed modules and heaven help you if you want to do something non-standard (look how much work it was to get the approval to hook the bigelow module to the ISS and the NASA plan to leave it unused for three years while it was attached to the station and then throw it away to burn up on reentry, on Jan 28 2017 they started talking about keeping it around instead)

    The (current) NASA way is not to use whatever is available to get the job done, it's to aim for zero risk, no matter what the cost.

    1. Re:NASA is not interested in recycling components by Immerman · · Score: 2

      > that would add up over time.
      Not as much as you'd think - things would very rapidly get so cluttered that you couldn't effectively add any more panels - there's only so much surface area on the ISS perpendicular to the sun, and none of it is designed for the ready addition of solar panels, and orbital construction work is extremely difficult and dangerous. Even in the best case scenario, time spent in EVA significantly increases the astronauts radiation exposure.

      I agree that it would be nice to be re-using all these components, and I suspect we're close to the point of beginning to do so - but we really need to be confident of doing so in the short-term future before we start leaving it up there. You can't just leave things in low orbit - there's still atmospheric drag that will bring it down fairly soon without constant boosts. And it's a lot riskier to let something come down in an uncontrolled fashion.

      Think of it this way: we're only just now on the cusp of starting to really have more than a token presence in space, and to develop the technologies needed to work their at least moderately safely. Once we have that - then suddenly all this trash becomes worth salvaging. As it stands now - it's really hard to ask people to put their life and health on the line to install minuscule increases in solar capacity.

      Personally I think that VR telepresence robots will be one of the enabling technologies to really get a ramshackle space economy going. Once people can do the majority of the dangerous work from within the safety of a well-shielded habitat, then it suddenly becomes radically more appealing to do real construction in space. Heck, for work done in orbit the workers can even remain on the healthy comfort of Earth's surface while doing the work - only the most sensitive interactions should suffer much from the small fraction of a second of communication delay, though it may take considerable practice for the operators to mentally adjust to the delay. Then we can develop factories and shipyards, all the early highly-dangerous experimental stuff, without worrying about life support at all. And once we have the basic industrial infrastructure worked out, then we can get serious about following our waldos into space - after we reach the point that we can build habitats worth living in.

      And if you really want a substantial human presence off Earth in the short term, then lets go to the Moon or Mars - they're both radically more hospitable to life than space itself.

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    2. Re:NASA is not interested in recycling components by phayes · · Score: 1

      Add to that that that the solar panels are not designed to be easily removed from Dragon / installed to ISS.

      The replacement of the optical module to allow Hubble to be saved wasn't designed to be changed in orbit either so it's possible but then, the Hubble operation took months of preparation and billions of $$$. The marginal addition of a few % of electrical generation that would need major ESA work every Dragon launch isn't just worth it.

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      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    3. Re:NASA is not interested in recycling components by Immerman · · Score: 1

      True, though in fairness it wouldn't need major work after *every* EVA, you could save up the panels until you had enough to be worth installing as a batch.

      And you could relatively easily decrease the incremental labor as well - assuming the solar panels are designed to be easily attached to the Dragon as well as detached, you could add one or more "branches" to the ISS outfitted with numerous compatible easy attachment points. That would of course require a single more substantial project to build, launch, and install the branch, and you'd need to be certain you'd have a steady supply of solar panels in the future to be worth it, but it would certainly be worth considering if that were the case - especially when designing completely new stations.

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