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Alleged KickassTorrents Owner Considers 'Voluntary Surrender' To the US (torrentfreak.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from TorrentFreak: Earlier this year a Polish court ruled that Artem Vaulin, the alleged owner of the defunct torrent site KickassTorrents, can be extradited to the United States. The decision came as a disappointment to the defense team, which quickly announced an appeal. Vaulin has since been released on bail and currently resides in a Warsaw apartment. His release has made it easier to communicate with his attorneys in the United States, who have started negotiations with the U.S. Government. While the extradition appeal is still ongoing, it now appears that under the right conditions Vaulin might consider traveling to the United States voluntarily, so he can "resolve" the pending charges. This is what the defense team states in a motion for a status conference (pdf), which was submitted earlier this week.

59 comments

  1. If he goes to the USA he will be screwed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They will want to make an example of him..

    1. Re: If he goes to the USA he will be screwed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah, that's what Kim Dotcom was for.

    2. Re: If he goes to the USA he will be screwed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's still free, just a bit poorer.

    3. Re: If he goes to the USA he will be screwed. by Motherfucking+Shit · · Score: 2

      Nah, that's what Dmitry Sklyarov was for.

      --
      "BSD: Free as in speech. Linux: Free as in beer. Windows 10: Free as in herpes." --Man On Pink Corner in #52607549.
    4. Re: If he goes to the USA he will be screwed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And...

    5. Re: If he goes to the USA he will be screwed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think this is too much, US courts can now summon virtually anyone before them who does not live in Russia.

  2. Extradition by sexconker · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why the fuck would a sovereign nation extradite someone to the US over something as victimless as hosting a website?

    Oh right. The corporations own the US and the US owns the world.

    1. Re:Extradition by zerofluidone · · Score: 3

      While it may feel like the right thing to do is to admit guilt and take whatever punishment is given, it is much better to continuously say nothing and make the people of the legal system work when they destroy your life - hopefully with a good lawyer if you're the kind that can afford your rights. There are not usually any good outcomes of "manning up" and taking responsibility when you just make it easy for people with political motives to hammer your life to dust. One of my biggest regrets in life is not having representation at least twice in my life because I thought the outcome would be better if I handled things on my own - or just stayed quiet. Big mistakes. He should get a lawyer before he lands and should expect to be isolated for months upon arrival. The real terrorists are the people who bought Congress.

    2. Re:Extradition by HBI · · Score: 4, Insightful

      He lives in a country that has been partitioned, invaded, and raped blind by every one of its neighbors over the past 250 years or so.

      Its only reliable ally is the United States.

      If you were going to run a torrent site, I would have recommended living pretty much anywhere but Poland.

      --
      HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    3. Re: Extradition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I would fucking run, Russia is only a few hundred miles from Warsaw.

    4. Re: Extradition by ooloorie · · Score: 2, Informative

      First, copyright law was imposed on the world largely because Europeans wanted that, so don't blame US corporations for that.

      Now, the guy violated laws that both the US and European nations agreed to by treaty; what exactly do you want to happen?

    5. Re: Extradition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly nor you or politicians do exactly understand what hosting a torrent file means.

    6. Re: Extradition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If he was in Poland and violated Polish law (or European law applicable in Poland) then he should be prosecuted in Poland.

    7. Re: Extradition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would fucking run, Russia is only a few hundred miles from Warsaw.

      Yep, me too.

    8. Re: Extradition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Why should politicians care to understand something they can destroy with a signature on a piece of paper? That is power. Real power. None of your beloved computers can do anything against the ability of an official to say "be not" and have his will enforced by very determined and merciless scary men with big guns and an unlimited budget taken by force from the pockets of a populace that cannot refuse to fund them. Think about it next time you feel so smug and uppity about your "tech savvy" crap.

    9. Re: Extradition by SumDog · · Score: 0

      Exactly. Has he even been to the US? It's the same as the Kim Dotcom bullshit.

    10. Re:Extradition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Leftists now shooting Congressmen in the streets for being Republican. Just wait till we start shooting back."

      Be careful about lumping everyone in who happens to believe similar to a crazy person. Timothy McVeigh was a registered Republican and I doubt seriously you agree with what he did.

    11. Re: Extradition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He violated Polish law and American law.

    12. Re: Extradition by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Clearly you don't understand the intent or purpose of copyright law if you think that it doesn't apply because of the technical details of how torrents are implemented.

    13. Re: Extradition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering Poland isn't under American jurisdiction, American laws are irrelevant.

    14. Re:Extradition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I second this point.

      In conceding the increasing number of violent leftists I claim it is more important now than ever to recognise that there exist peaceful, respectful human beings that have classical left-wing political positions. Some of the people I most admire are from the left.

      Let us not play the elite's game of grouping people and judging groups. Let us instead keep our minds open as we look to the character of each individual. This is the beginning of tolerance.

        - a libertarian

    15. Re:Extradition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so corporations own the world. That US of A sure has a long arm

    16. Re:Extradition by HBI · · Score: 1

      Oh, I should have added some text. McVeigh was a reaction to Clinton's inexcusable behavior at Waco. 76 people dead because of overzealous enforcement of pointless feel-good firearm regulations. With close to half a billion firearms at large in the US.

      Yes, he was a terrorist shitbag. But yes, he was provoked by high-handed and probably unconstitutional federal action.

      --
      HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
  3. F the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    They think they can make their law apply worldwide and bully countries to give up citizens because they infringes some law in the US.
    Imagine if insulting the president was against the law, similar to the lese majeste law in Thailand and other backward countries like it, would countries around the world let themselves be bullied by the US to give up hundreds of citizens for that as well?

    1. Re:F the US by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 2

      Imagine if insulting the president was against the law, similar to the lese majeste law in Thailand...

      Thanks, I'd rather not.

      And I think I'd prefer if you didn't go giving anyone any ideas, either.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    2. Re: F the US by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Copyright law is governed by international treaties that are binding on every nation. European publishers were some of the biggest lobbyists for that, and European copyright law is draconian. Why do you blame Americans for that?

    3. Re: F the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I don't believe he can be legally extradited to the US as they are known to torture prisoners. Even the former president admitted it.

  4. Thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For the linkbait headline, linky the linkbaiter. Coming to the states to resolve the despute legally is not even close to being equivalent to 'surrendering' one's self. It means that if certain criteria were met and parties were amenable, his legal team would be willing to work toward a favorable resolution for all in the states. He wouldn't be entering customs in chains or anything.

    1. Re: Thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, so I'm dippy the double dipper. I also suspect if those conditions are not granted, they will continue to refuse to cooperate. It's called 'making a deal'. Nuance: it is your friend.

  5. Send Him To Gitmo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This terrorist is has performed crimes against arts and humanity itself.

  6. KAT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd give him probation for coming up with such a cool name.

  7. Might makes right, and money BUYS might. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    Having dealt with the government myself, I would urge Mr. Vaulin to do his utmost to disappear. Trusting the US to honor a deal would be extremely unwise, and I speak from experience which was both very unpleasant and very costly in the terms which matter most : years of a human life taken away for what in my case was a trivial offense. The adversarial nature of the US court system makes a result which is very perverted indeed all too possible. The court system is not about justice, it is about power, and that's the sad truth.

    This fight against torrent websites proves one thing and one thing only, and that is that with enough money it is possible to get the US Justice Department to expend resources on a situation that is utterly insignificant to 99.9% of the American people. This exposes the true nature of how government works in the US. It's not really "of the people, by the people, for the people", it's a tool for the elite and all the rest of the population is along for the ride. Revolutions have started for less, in other countries, in the past. But the current average American is too fat and lazy to consider anything of the sort, so the shitshow continues.

    1. Re: Might makes right, and money BUYS might. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "...situation that is utterly insignificant to 99.9% of the American people."

      This right here is why they get away with it. If it were more significant and people held it as a priority come voting time things would be different. All in all our political system is working fine in this respect. We voted representatives in who passed laws and appointed judges that uphold them. If you don't like it then you can vote for someone that will pass different laws and if enough people agree with you, the system will change.

    2. Re:Might makes right, and money BUYS might. by dcollins117 · · Score: 1

      The court system is not about justice, it is about power, and that's the sad truth.

      The lawyers I know are the first to admit that the court system is not about justice, but conflict resolution. I've heard the same thing so often I strongly suspect that's the first thing they are taught in law school.

      That being said, if this guy is seriously considering voluntary surrender to the US I would be genuinely astonished.

    3. Re: Might makes right, and money BUYS might. by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      His choice may come down to bring tried in the US or being tried in Europe. It's not obvious which is better. In the US he may actually be able to strike a deal, in Europe, he might face a mandatory prison sentence depending on the circumstances.

    4. Re: Might makes right, and money BUYS might. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think he has a higher chance of a fair trail in Europe. Most rights in the US apply to citizens only, as a foreigner your rights are basically zero in the US.

  8. So, who is running... by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

    kickass.cd? It's a pop-up hell, and seems only the 1st page works, but you can find torrents on it.

    1. Re:So, who is running... by HBI · · Score: 1

      If you properly filter the site, it remains barely usable.

      --
      HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    2. Re:So, who is running... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Shit man, don't use those sites. Or any of the extratorrent sites either. Every single one is fake and absolutely full of every exploit known to Man. If you have visited one of those sites without massive precautions then you've probably already been hacked.

      You may also get recommendations for katcr.co but good hell does that site suck! They put recaptcha on every single search you do and even if you get past that the search results don't even include the terms you put in, plus you can't sort anything. What a piece of shit site!

      Currently there is only one usable torrent site and that is 1337x.to

    3. Re:So, who is running... by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      This one works pretty well, too... or so I've heard...

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  9. very bad idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    very bad idea... copyright is no joke in the USA

    1. Re:very bad idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what if you copyright a joke ?

  10. I still don't get it by Cytotoxic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I still don't understand the legal theory that says that foreign citizens operating entirely outside of the US can be held accountable to US law.

    We have seen this with gambling sites, file sharing sites, etc. I get applying US law if a foreign national defrauds a US citizen from their hideout in another country. Or going after the leadership of criminal conspiracies that operate inside the US but have their top people overseas - a buddy of mine investigates medical fraud cases that are run by an organized crime ring in Cuba of all places.

    But this is different. A web site that hosts links to files hosted elsewhere and is itself hosted in another country by people who are subject to the laws of other nations? Can China come after the editors and owners of Slashdot for its users violating Chinese speech laws? They seem to take those more seriously than the US takes copyright law.

    This whole thing is nuts. Or maybe I'm missing something.

    1. Re: I still don't get it by ooloorie · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "I still don't understand the legal theory that says that foreign citizens operating entirely outside of the US can be held accountable to US law"

      If a citizen of country X harms a citizen or entity of country Y while in territory Z, any of X, Y, and Z might have or claim jurisdiction. Who actually handles the case is usually determined by treaties, foremost extradition treaties. This is hardly unique to the US. Europe claims extraterritorial jurisdiction all the time as well.

      The US/Europe distinction you're trying to make is probably invalid anyway, since a lot of the plaintiffs are probably partly European owned, and the underlying copyright laws were originally created based on pressure by European publishers. This isn't the US throwing it's weight around, it's the US operating according to international treaties based on long standing European practice and political pressures.

    2. Re:I still don't get it by MrEdofCourse · · Score: 2

      Can China come after the editors and owners of Slashdot for its users violating Chinese speech laws?

      I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding here is that in order to get an extradition the law that the person broke must also be illegal in the country you're extraditing from (and have a treaty with). So no, China could not do that.

    3. Re: I still don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If a US citizen were to break a law in the EU (say copyright) and then flew back to the US, he would be extradited back in Europe, right? (rhetorical question)

    4. Re: I still don't get it by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      As far as the US is concerned, yes.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...

      However, European copyright holders prefer to bring lawsuits in the US, simply because it is the country where they can get the biggest copyright awards, so this rarely happens.

      It's really fscking annoying that European corporations and governments massively lobby, pressure, and corrupt US politics and then on top of that Americans have to listen to anti American innuendo from people like you.

    5. Re: I still don't get it by Cytotoxic · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but that link here is pretty tenuous. Isn't "kickass torrents" a site that provides a place for 3rd parties to post links to files that are hosted by 3rd parties via torrents?

      In the case of gambling sites the link was "people from the US visit the site for the purpose of gambling", which seems pretty thin. I mean, if you travel to a country where gambling is legal then you can gamble there legally, even if you are a US citizen. But travelling there via electronic communication somehow not only fails to make your activities in the foreign country subject to foreign law, it makes the people in the foreign country subject to US law.

      In the torrent case, it is US companies that are worried about copyright violations, but it is a couple of steps removed to get to the person who owns a website in another country that hosts links posted by other people to files hosted by yet other people. I get that they set up the site entirely for the purpose of having people post those links, but beyond that they are functionally no different than the Huffington Post's comments section. In fact, a clever bunch of copyright violating folks could use a combination of Slashdot comments and Google searches to effectively recreate much of the functionality of a site like kickass torrents.

      Is it simply intent that we are hanging our hat on here? The torrent sites are clearly intending to violate US and EU copyright law - even as they skirt around direct hosting of any violating content. Google hosts exactly the same content - links to copyright violating content - but it isn't their primary function or direct intent. Similarly the gambling sites intended that US citizens would use their foreign sites to gamble online since US companies are not allowed to provide online gambling.

      I dunno. The whole thing still seems odd to me.

      If I post a link to a company that sells authentic replica WWII German SS uniforms on Slashdot, is Slashdot liable for violations of German laws banning Nazi paraphernalia? I'm no German, the company selling the stuff isn't German, and Slashdot isn't German. I'm not selling anything, I just posted the link. Slashdot isn't selling anything, they just host the link. Seems roughly equivalent to me. The only thing missing is intent on the part of Slashdot.

    6. Re:I still don't get it by Cytotoxic · · Score: 1

      That would actually clear up a lot of the strange distinctions. Except for the gambling sites that got shut down by the US government because US citizens were gambling there. In that case, online gambling was not illegal in the host nation. But they still issued indictments and shut down the websites and seized assets held in foreign bank accounts. If I recall, the lever they used was a law making it illegal to send money to those companies from the US. But once again, not illegal in Ireland or wherever for them to receive the money.

      So the US certainly didn't hang their hat on "also violates the law where you are located". But maybe getting extradition is harder on that point?

    7. Re: I still don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You write that like anyone is obligated to think highly of America. It has problems, and ignoring them only makes it worse.

  11. one condition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If I would voluntarily travel to the US after being accused of something, One condition would be that I received US citizenship before getting on the plan. Without it foreigners have no right to a fair trail.

  12. he will receive harsh punishment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    he wil get a minimum of 10 years in the best case scenario . i loved his website, it was best site on internet .

  13. Doesn't sound like a good idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Set foot on US soil and you'll get your ass handed to you. Anyone facing charges would be better off to stay put and hope to evade prosecution by the vagaries of extradition proceedings.

  14. DMCA Warning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I already copyrighted that joke. Please take it down now!

  15. My sister was killed by McVeigh by HBI · · Score: 1

    n/t

    --
    HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.