Slashdot Mirror


YouTube Stars Defend Net Neutrality In Open Letter To the FCC (theverge.com)

More than 100 YouTube creators from the Internet Creators Guild have signed an open letter to the FCC calling on the agency to keep strong net neutrality protections. "Our rapidly growing industry employs hundreds of thousands of people and yet it barely existed more than a decade ago," reads the letter. "As creators in this fast-moving industry, changes to the existing Net Neutrality rules would have an outsized impact on our field and jeopardize our livelihood." The Verge reports: The letter has been signed by major names in the YouTube community, such as the Fine Brothers. In total, the guild says, the letter represents video creators with an audience of more than 150 million people. The YouTube creators directly address FCC chairman Ajit Pai in the letter. The letter argues that the removal of protections would lead to "the inevitable creation of fast lanes that would privilege the large media companies that can afford to pay for such service," putting smaller media creators in danger. "We strongly urge you to oppose anything that would threaten this level playing field," the letter from video makers concludes. "The stakes are simply too high for our democracy, culture, and economy."

48 comments

  1. YouTube Stars and their Internet Money by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 1

    >> YouTube Stars

    Obligatory South Park:
    http://southpark.cc.com/clips/165195/meet-the-internet-stars

  2. "YouTube Stars" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "YouTube Stars"... Yeah right, get the fuck off my lawn.

    The letter has been signed by major names in the YouTube community, such as the Fine Brothers.

    Oh, the sleazy assholes who tried to claim they owned any "reaction" video ever filmed? Well they sound like the type of corporate scumbags Ajit Pai might be chummy with, maybe he'll pay attention.

  3. YouTube Stars... by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 2

    Who? Wait, let me ask ky 13 year old daughter....

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    1. Re:YouTube Stars... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Fine Brothers. You know... Larry, Moe and Curly.

    2. Re:YouTube Stars... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bad idea Bro, you don't wanna know what she's been doing on Youtube. Also don't ask her about that golf ball kegel video she made

    3. Re:YouTube Stars... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The Fine Brothers. You know... Larry, Moe and Curly.

      Only Larry was Fine. The others were Howard.

      Remind me to murder you later.

    4. Re:YouTube Stars... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You keep the ky away from your 13 year old daughter.

    5. Re:YouTube Stars... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Horowitz actually, or something like that

  4. Net Neutrality by bobbied · · Score: 1

    I don't those words mean what you think they mean... They certainly do not describe what the rules actually are.

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    1. Re:Net Neutrality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but "ISP Content Steering Restrictions" just doesn't have the catchy ring to it and makes it sound ominous when it's really just the opposite.

  5. Fine Bros? Of all the people ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    They wanted to trademark reaction videos and make everyone else pay them. Now they talk about "affordable services", "democracy" and "culture? What a hypocritical joke.

    1. Re:Fine Bros? Of all the people ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They wanted to trademark reaction videos and make everyone else pay them. Now they talk about "affordable services", "democracy" and "culture? What a hypocritical joke.

      To be fair, Ajit Pai and the current FCC are hypocritical jokes too.

    2. Re:Fine Bros? Of all the people ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sure but they dont depend on children and millenials for "fame and fortune" like youtube "stars". I threw up a little just typing that last part.

  6. Vested interest by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    Sure, but let's be honest here. People who make a living from YouTube videos have a vested interest in net neutrality. Throttling and new fees would cut into their profits, which are likely narrow enough to force many YouTube stars into finding new careers. The FCC is under no obligation to protect individual jobs from changes in the market.

    That said, I really do believe that Net Neutrality is the best option. And anything else would consolidate power into a few corporations that switch packets. And perhaps cut deeply into small businesses and entrepreneurs. (full disclosure, that is not known for certain)

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    1. Re:Vested interest by captaindomon · · Score: 2

      Nah, they don't have a vested interest in net neutrality. They have a vested interest in Google, which has a market cap of 645 Billion dollars. They are "employees" of a massive company. They're not "the little guys" trying to get equal network footing, they're "employees" of one of the largest companies in the world.

      --
      Just because I can hook a shark from a boat, I do no offer to wrestle it in the water.
    2. Re: Vested interest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good, I hate YouTubers!

    3. Re:Vested interest by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      That's the point, and I think you agree with my original statement: "People who make a living from YouTube videos have a vested interest in net neutrality."

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    4. Re:Vested interest by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      The government is in the business of protecting jobs, since fucking when are they not, I mean seriously, show me the fucking politician who said fuck jobs more profits for corporations and I of course mean publicly. However it is against the constitution for the Government to act in the interest of a select few companies at the expense of ten of thousands and more companies. It would be a criminal act, creating a law tilted in favour of a few, and removing a law that creates neutral equal access to competition. They are corrupt as hell and know they are going to lose the next election, so they will stupidly take the money and run.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    5. Re: Vested interest by captaindomon · · Score: 1

      Yes, agreed. Just wanted to point out they are not "the little guys" in the fight. You make a good point.

      --
      Just because I can hook a shark from a boat, I do no offer to wrestle it in the water.
  7. Net Neutrality in a nutshell by OrangeTide · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Net Neutrality means Comcast and AT&T don't automatically get a cut of Netflix's subscription revenue and Google's ad revenue.

    That's how I would sum it up (I'm a cynic). And arguments can be made either way.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  8. Net Neutrality doesn't need to be an issue by Baron_Yam · · Score: 1

    ...if there was competition in the market instead of regional monopolies and cartels.

    Imagine you had (at least) two potential ISPs ready to provide service, and one throttles and the other doesn't...

    Make the means of communication (the fibre, copper, and wireless spectrum) public infrastructure, lease access to private entities to provide whatever services they want (like connecting you up to the infrastructure, providing email, tech support, etc.). Anything less is going to result in the sub-standard service you're getting today.

    Imagine if you only had toll roads if you wanted to travel by car, and only two possible routes to work. Data's not much different.

    1. Re:Net Neutrality doesn't need to be an issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Imagine if you only had toll roads if you wanted to travel by car, and only two possible routes to work. Data's not much different

      Except for the concept known as the last mile. Yes data packets can take many different paths on the way to you, but ultimately it goes through one pipe to get to you, your ISP. Here's the more accurate car analogy:

      You only have one (ok maybe two) driveways in and out of your property onto a privately owned and tolled road, complete with a toll collector in your driveway. There is no way off your property without paying. If you complain they say you can always find another street to live on. It would sound like the solution to the problem if it weren't for the service termination fee, the move out fee, the large vehicle in residential areas fee and a pre-charged toll just in case you move into another area that toll service services which will be returned to you at their earliest convenience.

      How many of you have a choice in power or water vendors? These services are like data. There's only one pipe/wire/cable/place a dish can go leading to your residence. Please sit down before you hurt yourself.

    2. Re:Net Neutrality doesn't need to be an issue by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Imagine if you only had toll roads if you wanted to travel by car, and only two possible routes to work. Data's not much different.

      It's not different, in that you can't just wave a magic wand and have another route to use. Even if you opened up those markets to competition, it would be some time before any actually materialized in many of them.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  9. In other words, stop the changes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The low regulations that allowed the internet to grow rapidly must be junked to protect us!

    Government regulation is the antidote for innovation.

    Under goverment regulation, it took the phone industry a century to go reach touch-tone dialing. Meanwhile, AT&T made billions of dollars. 20 years after the bulk of that regulation was lifted, we wound up with the internet and smart phones.

    But go ahead, pine for the government to help you. They're really going to stagnate the industry and help Google and Netflix make billions.

    1. Re:In other words, stop the changes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I think the only industry that's truly stagnating when it comes to the Internet is cable companies... who also happen to be ISPs and are lobbying to make more money from their failed business model. People don't want cable any more. Some, like me, never bought it in their adult lives, and they *can't* be marketed to. There's simply nothing on TV worth watching, at least for me. Cable is moving to Internet-powered services and the cable companies want to be the bouncers. These companies should be split and laws made so that any ISP cannot also be a content provider or publisher. Google was smart, and restructured into Alphabet. Now YouTube and Google are "technically" separate. You'll see that happen with Comcast and Verizon if legislation like that is passed. Except Google, of all companies, thought one step ahead of the game and beat them to the market conditions. I'm not a fan of Google, so don't interpret this praise as anything but reluctant.

      Keep Internet connectivity a utility, the government buys the infrastructure in the form of tax cuts for X years, newcomers (startups, small ISPs) get a boost to inject competition into markets. Packets remain throttled only by protocol (QoS) or service package limits (e.g. buying 70down/20up service) instead of content or origin + destination. Free speech is alive, business is alive and competing, just about everyone benefits.

      I'd be willing to pay a little more for my Internet plan if I had an unencumbered connection. I understand shuttering cable would cut into revenue, but business has to adapt to changing market conditions if it wants to survive... just like private citizens.

    2. Re:In other words, stop the changes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the only industry that's truly stagnating when it comes to the Internet is cable companies... ....

      Probably true.

      Interesing, also, is that most cable companies are government-granted monopolies in the markets they serve.

      Just like the old AT&T, whose government regulated monopoly gave it the excess cash to indulge in things like Bell Labs - inventing the transistor, discovering the cosmic backround radiation. And the entire lack of any incentive to do anything with their discoveries.

      AT&T played nice. They used their government-protected profits to win Nobel Prizes.

      Google doesn't play nice - they'll use any de facto net neutrality goverment rules that entrench their position to make more money and keep strip mining your privacy. "Don't be evil" my ass. "Don't be MERELY evil" is more like it.

  10. Possibly the wrong audience by spiritplumber · · Score: 2

    Right now, the country is being run by old people. They may or may not have any idea why Youtube content producers are a big deal. They are more likely to recognize "old media" stars.

    --
    Liberty - Security - Laziness - Pick any two.
    1. Re:Possibly the wrong audience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Youtube "stars" are idiots. They don't understand what net neutrality is. They think it means "you can't charge more for faster service! You can't bundle packages of data!" and so on.

      All Net Neutrality means is this: ALL DATA MUST BE TREATED EQUALLY.

      And guess what? That's fucking TERRRIBLE.

      If I'm a surgeon performing telesurgery (already a thing and will be much more of a thing in the next decade and more), you better mother fucking bet that the bits being transmitted across the country for life saving surgery need to be fucking PRIORITIZED OVER SOMEONE'S FUCKING EMAIL OR YOUTUBE VIDEO.

      Unfortunately, there is great benefit in trying to convince people that Net Neutrality is something else. ESPECIALLY Netflix, who stands to benefit the MOST from people not understanding things like fucking PEERAGE.

      So forgive me if I don't give any fucks about what a bunch of tech pundits who are talking out of their ass say *or* a bunch of retarded "youtube stars".

    2. Re:Possibly the wrong audience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "All Net Neutrality means is this: ALL DATA MUST BE TREATED EQUALLY."

      No, that's not what it means. What it means is that all data of a given type must be treated equally regardless of its source or destination. It means all voip data must be treated the same -- you can't give preference to voip traffic to a service you own or partner with over another service you don't.

      You absolutely CAN prioritize ALL VOIP traffic above web traffic and ALL web traffic above bittorrent if you like. Net neutrality is about making sure all service PROVIDERS are treated equally, not that all SERVICE TYPES are treated the same.

      you better mother fucking bet that the bits being transmitted across the country for life saving surgery need to be fucking PRIORITIZED OVER SOMEONE'S FUCKING EMAIL OR YOUTUBE VIDEO.

      Yes and NOBODY disagrees with that.

      Net neutrality ensures that it doesn't matter which surgeon is giving you life saving surgery; because all remote surgery traffic is top priority; and you won't get your traffic throttled if you don't use the surgery provider your ISP owns shares in.

    3. Re:Possibly the wrong audience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Why is my heart telesurgery less important than a man's sex change?" - Headline of the future

    4. Re:Possibly the wrong audience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. Right now, the country is being run by a bunch of confederate inbread fucktards with the mental age of ten year olds who lol at the fact that the immature mentally unstable sociopath that they elected president pisses off "libruls". That's all that matters to them.

      Fuck the economy. Fuck international relations. Fuck the planet. Fuck the future of their children and grandchildren. Their president is pissing off liberals and SJWs, so they're happy.

  11. Clueless idiots by Snotnose · · Score: 1

    Youtube stars? phfft.

    How much money did you give $representative in the last 3 months? If that value is less than 6 figures your opinion doesn't matter.

  12. Deduplicate by manu0601 · · Score: 1

    In total, the guild says, the letter represents video creators with an audience of more than 150 million people

    I wonder how did they manage to deduplicate viewers: Many of them follow mutliple Youtube stars. Google has the information, but AFAIK authors do not.

    1. Re:Deduplicate by Whorhay · · Score: 1

      They probably didn't even try. A significant number of those subscribers are also likely to be from outside the USA. All that said 150 million subscriptions probably represents at least a tenth of that in actual US Citizens. And that is not an insignificant number of constituents.

  13. The more the merrier, I guess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But that is just asinine. Youtube of all services does not need net neutrality to keep going. Net neutrality is necessary for the little guys, the startups, which can not yet throw their weight around to get preferential treatment in the access networks. Youtubers have basically chosen the path opposite of net neutrality, by tying their business to a big business instead of self-hosting. A web of Facebook and Google can exist just fine without net neutrality.

    1. Re:The more the merrier, I guess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "and yet it barely existed more than a decade ago"

      And somehow also managed to come into existence during that time frame without the rules they're saying will result in their destruction if they are gone?

      Sometimes I wonder if people missed the first couple decades of the Internet or something... or maybe they're really just this young?

  14. pfft. bunch of wannabe youtube stars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    None listed are even in the top 20 of most subscribed channels. Can safely ignore as publicity seeking stunt.

  15. Until such proof materializes by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    The FCC is not all of the government, and the aspects of government that you refer to are not part of the FCC charter. It's a regulatory agency that at one time was apolitical, and would still be if we had a healthy democratic government. That said, I expect there to be some proof of corruption before claims are made where you expect me to act. I can't operate on conjecture. I must insist that we stick to the facts, such as the directives and history of the FCC.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  16. Have we even had NN in a long time? by Snarf+You · · Score: 1

    I used to be vehemently in favor of NN, but when you stop to think about it, do we even really have it right now?

    Per the FCC:

    Blocking: Broadband providers may not block access to lawful content, applications, services or non-harmful devices.

    Name one big cable company that lets you serve lawful content via port 80 on your home internet connection.

    Throttling: Broadband providers may not deliberately target some lawful internet traffic to be delivered to users more slowly than other traffic.

    Name one big cable provider that doesn't offer multiple speed tiers. If you've got the lowest/standard tier, watch what happens when you download something from a fast server: your download speed hits an artificial limit, according to your service level.

    I know getting rid of the NN rules opens up a huge can of worms with lots of nightmare scenarios because of the broadband providers' collective monopoly.

    But really, what good are NN rules when nobody is following them anyway? And has life been unlivable with the fake NN we currently have?

    1. Re:Have we even had NN in a long time? by Voyager529 · · Score: 1

      I used to be vehemently in favor of NN, but when you stop to think about it, do we even really have it right now?

      Per the FCC:

      Blocking: Broadband providers may not block access to lawful content, applications, services or non-harmful devices.

      Name one big cable company that lets you serve lawful content via port 80 on your home internet connection.

      This is a tough one. Yes, they block port 80, and you are right that doing so is technically in violation of that requirement. However, most ISPs still leave 443 open. The bigger issue would be if Backblaze was blocked or throttled, but not Carbonite.

      Throttling: Broadband providers may not deliberately target some lawful internet traffic to be delivered to users more slowly than other traffic.

      Name one big cable provider that doesn't offer multiple speed tiers. If you've got the lowest/standard tier, watch what happens when you download something from a fast server: your download speed hits an artificial limit, according to your service level.

      True, but that's based on my service tier, not the type of traffic. If I'm paying for 10Mbits/sec down, and Netflix, Hulu, Redtube, and some rando's MediaGoblin site all are able to use the full 10Mbits/sec down, that's not a neutrality violation because my service tier applies to everyone equally. If I paid for 10, but Netflix got 5 while Hulu got 15 because they were "preferred", that is the issue at hand.

      But really, what good are NN rules when nobody is following them anyway? And has life been unlivable with the fake NN we currently have?

      The point of the argument is that NN used to be an inherent part of the internet. Whatever speed you got, everyone moved at that speed. The point of NN is to fight against what's now possible - ISPs mucking around with internet traffic artificially so they can charge both sides to get the advertised speeds.

    2. Re:Have we even had NN in a long time? by Snarf+You · · Score: 1

      The point of the argument is that NN used to be an inherent part of the internet. Whatever speed you got, everyone moved at that speed. The point of NN is to fight against what's now possible - ISPs mucking around with internet traffic artificially so they can charge both sides to get the advertised speeds.

      I agree with that. NN is optimal strategy; anything else is necessarily a degradation. And letting politicians make these kinds of decisions instead of us techies is like letting a McDonald's employee perform open heart surgery.

      I don't believe ISPs when they ask us to just trust them that they don't need those rules, and I don't believe for one second that Ajit Pai will keep NN in place, no matter how much public backlash there is. However, I'm also no longer 100% certain that getting rid of the NN rules will be the "internet armageddon" that I used to think it would be.

  17. Actual link to the letter by Briareos · · Score: 3, Informative

    https://internetcreatorsguild.com/net-neutrality

    I know this is Slashdot, and I know I shouldn't have RTFA, but neither the summary nor the linked piece of clickbait fluff included a link to the actual freaking letter...

    --

    "I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole

    1. Re:Actual link to the letter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What are you talking about? The first sentence in the article has a link to the letter.

    2. Re:Actual link to the letter by Briareos · · Score: 1

      No, it has a link to a shitty article that's also not linking to the original letter.

      But I guess you already knew that...

      --

      "I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole

  18. YouTube star by Patent+Lover · · Score: 1

    I just want to know what Laughing Baby has to say about all this.

  19. Whatevs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I still refuse to acknowledge Youtubers as 'stars', their cachet with me is non-existent. Everyone that enjoys web-based services should be thinking about it.

  20. Practice what you preach, Google by gmiller123456 · · Score: 1

    It'd be nice if Google played by the same rules as they want others to. Instead they've banned anyone presenting a positive view of guns from receiving any advertising money.

    Channels are not barred for presenting anti-gun views. Channels are not barred for presenting guns as a novelty. Any channel posting a reveiw of a gun is barred. Show a trick shot: barred. Teach people anything about how to shoot a gun: barred. Teach people about gun safety: barred.

    I wish I could support Google on this one, but they're digging their own grave.