Slashdot Mirror


Intel Exits the Maker Movement (hackaday.com)

Reader szczys writes: Intel just killed off its last "maker movement" hardware offering without fanfare by quietly releasing a Product Change Notification PDF. The Arduino 101 is halting production on September 17th. This microcontroller board is built around the Intel Curie module around which Intel bankrolled a television series called America's Greatest Makers. News on the end of life for the Arduino 101 board follows the recent cancellations of their Joule, Galileo, and Edison boards. This is the entirety of Intel's maker offerings and seems to signal their exit from entry-level embedded hardware.

84 comments

  1. Intel can't innovate anymore. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's on its fourth 14nm generation, having its ass handed to them by ARM and AMD and now cutting off niche products like the maker movement, plus it has ME in all new processors.

    1. Re:Intel can't innovate anymore. by Rockoon · · Score: 2

      Intel is in serious trouble, but not just because it is no longer a generation ahead on process tech. Sure, soon they will even be a generation behind, but thats not their biggest issue.

      Their biggest issue is that as a vertically integrated company they can't be part of Pure-Play and there arent any IDM opportunities. If it isnt branded Intel, then it doesn't come out of an Intel fab. All of Intels older fabs are grossly under-utilized while Pure-Play foundries like TSMC can keep all their fabs old and new running 24/7.

      Being behind on the technology is a surmountable problem. Being behind on the business model isn't.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    2. Re:Intel can't innovate anymore. by interval1066 · · Score: 1

      I'm a little surprised as I completed a contract with Intel in Santa Clara just last Dec. doing market research for their IoT effort and they seemed to be all gung ho forward on it. The research was specifically for their Edison boards too.

      --
      Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
    3. Re:Intel can't innovate anymore. by MightyYar · · Score: 2

      Intel does contract manufacturing now.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    4. Re:Intel can't innovate anymore. by slew · · Score: 2

      Intel does contract manufacturing now.

      Although Intel does contract manufacturing (achronix, altera, spreadtrum, LG, panasonic), they really are only competitive in the leading edge process nodes, and aren't very competitive in providing N-2 generation foundry service where the pure-play companies make the bulk of their money.

      I suspect that's mainly because they've only recently licensed the Artisan library cells (owned by ARM) which are used by nearly all fab-less semiconductor design houses. Because they were vertical for so long, I'm guessing the existing Artisan cell design aren't parametrically optimized to run on their process and their N-2 fabs were never optimized to yield these cells. It's a big effort to resynthesize/recharacterized/redesign a bunch of the "chicklet" IP and analog cells that goes into a modern SoC chip to an "intel-proprietary" library and it is difficult if not impossible to hide yield hits and NRE costs of re-engineering to a new foundry process by simply discounting die to your potential customers unless they are really big customers that are willing to target your N-2 foundry and invest a bunch of money to retarget parts of old designs. That is why all their newly engaged foundry customers are targetting their leading edge process nodes with new designs.

      Historically, Intel has effectively filled their fully depreciated N-1 and N-2 fabs to run their own chipset and embedded business designs (saving the N generation for cpus). Getting new customers to target these N-2 fabs will be more challenging until a few more tick-tocks pass and the current designs become N-2 legacy designs.

      I'm sure they can do it eventually, but the question will be can they be as profitable this way? Will customers trust Intel as much as TSMC to be a reliable die provider for N-2? They probably need to fill N, N-1, and N-2 fabs to make this work. Simply increasing capacity on N generation fabs will create more N-1 and N-2 fabs in the future. Only time will tell if they can work this out.

    5. Re:Intel can't innovate anymore. by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      adding:

      Samsung and TSMC have both already beaten Intel to 10nm production.
      Other companies are skipping 10nm and going right for 7nm, Intel has no chance of being first to 7nm either.

      Intel has been a generation ahead in process since the Core series but pickled themselves chasing 10nm Tri-Gates, a tech that may never be profitable. AMD is already doing 10nm business in the console space, and this desktop Ryzen is just 14nm so far.

      Intel is also in big trouble due to the branding. Soon to be a generation behind in the desktop space, and no hope of turning things around before 5nm. This lasting negative perception upon the brand will be devastating to profit margins, and at a time when they will need the money the most.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
  2. If we can't own it, why bother? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Intel is used to being the top dog and the one that can simply set the specs and everyone has to dance to their tune. Of course having to take into consideration what others want is not something someone like this wants to deal with.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:If we can't own it, why bother? by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      they can't make a profit on it; their decision is purely business based.

      Intel is not the top dog anyway, the most powerful CPU chips on the planet are made by another company that starts with "I". Most the money/financial transactions in the world exist on their machines.

    2. Re:If we can't own it, why bother? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Power9 is not out yet, as far as I know. Power8 is reasonably powerful, but in the same ballpark as today's fastest Xeons (it was faster when it first came out).
      I can't see any other company that starts with "I" and produces high end CPUs.

    3. Re:If we can't own it, why bother? by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      no, power8 completely destroys the top end xeons in enterprise app tests

  3. This is unfortunate by nucrash · · Score: 1

    On a positive note, more are entering the maker space and the market for the internet of things is impressive. Security hopefully will catch up.

    I see Intel trying to cut a lot of low return investments to redirect their focus into the processor space. AMD is making serious inroads and actually caught them off guard. McAfee appears to have been a misstep, although I could have called that one a light year a way.

    As soon as they secure their spot in the processor space again, they will start to branch out and take on other markets, but if their core space is under assault, they either have to defend or abandon. They have too much to lose to flee the x86 market.

    --
    Place something witty here
    1. Re:This is unfortunate by Kjella · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Intel's problem is that they have already cut their losses and ran from the invasion of phone/tablet products. It's the 11th straight quarter of declining PC shipments. Meanwhile smartphone sales are up again now outselling PCs at a rate well over 5:1. Tablet sales are also down (Q1 numbers) so you might say Microsoft has managed to shore up the convertible/laptop market with the Surface line, but WinTel is completely on the sidelines in the global smartphone revolution. According to the platform statistics 53% of all Internet access is now mobile, 42% PC, 5% tablets.

      Intel is not in trouble, they have the server market and so far AMD's offering is basically a return to competition, it's a long way to go until Intel is on the ropes fighting for survival. But they and Microsoft completely failed to bring out a good x86 smartphone leveraging the tons of existing win32 code, I don't know why. I mean all the alarm bells should have gone off when the iPhone became a success in 2007, even with 3-4 years development time they should be ready to kick ass around 2011 but instead we got the Nokia flop. Considering the power of phones relative to typical office applications I'm kinda waiting for the phone with a cheap dock that gives you charging, display, keyboard, mouse, a chromebook-like UI and a bluetooth headset in case you need to answer the phone while docked. Like if you already have a phone and a TV, add these accessories and you won't need a laptop.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    2. Re:This is unfortunate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Like if you already have a phone and a TV, add these accessories and you won't need a laptop.

      Or simply a phone and a desktop-sized screen, sure.

      And for some things, like writing letters, or even movie scripts or entire books, some people still swear by something like WordStar, which runs fine in an emulator and since originally written in 8080 assembly, requires very little resources indeed. So your octocore phone is massively overpowered for tasks like that, or reading email, or what-have-you. Most of the oomph will be utterly wasted on "rendering" windows and proportional fonts when you'd've been better served with a fixed pitch font (even if "modern" people don't want to know).

      But to be viable the phone also needs to be less of a vendor-owned silo; even android is too much in this regard, and then there's the hardware, the black box air interface, but also the lack of high-speed connectivity; it's all HID-centric.

      For the non-hipster "makers" among us, a challenge: Come up with a nice little notebook (95lx-size) that runs for at least a week off of two bog standard AA batteries, and gives you a decent keyboard and screen (eg. e-ink), suitable for running an editor (WordStar, nvi, q.exe, ee, something like that) and email (mutt, ...), and allows you to keep your entire writing and mail history on an sdcard or something. Add wifi and bt, ir, usb, headset jack, ethernet if it fits (instead of modem), others to taste. Open source everything, down to the case, with programming specs published for all parts. You probably need something more sensible than linux or windows to run the thing. minix perhaps, since it doesn't need to be fast, just energy-efficient.

    3. Re:This is unfortunate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Part of the reason for higher phone shipments is that there is higher churn in the market. It's slowed a bit, but there's still a lot of phones that don't receive updates, so people have to buy a new phone for a new OS version. (And some countries are still advancing from dumbphones to smart phones.)

      Contrast this to desktops where a six year-old computer is still functionally useful. (I still play games on a first gen i3 with a mid-tier GPU.) A properly spec'd computer could last 10 years at this point.

  4. If Intel no longer profit from it ... by Alain+Williams · · Score: 1

    then will they release the specs, etc, as Open Source/... and let someone else make the things ? After all: they will not lose anything. But: I doubt that that will happen.

    1. Re:If Intel no longer profit from it ... by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      curie is dead. its not coming back. and its a good thing, too.

      it had silicon bugs that simply cannot be fixed in software.

      it needs to die.

      (I worked on curie, but I cant' say more than that for various reasons)

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    2. Re:If Intel no longer profit from it ... by jandrese · · Score: 1

      This is what I understood. Intel came to the market a day late and a dollar short, it's no surprise that they got no traction. They were never going to see the profit margins they wanted in the field, so it never really made sense for them to enter the market in the first place, except as a hedge against missing out on the next big thing.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
  5. Core Competency by AlanObject · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is about the 15th iteration I have witnessed of this.

    Step 1: Somebody at Intel gets a Bright Idea to develop some new market. We gots lots o cash so why not lets do it. (i.e. collect underpants)

    Step 2: ...

    Step 3: Profit.

    Step 3.1: Er, no profit. We ended up not owning the market. Pull the plug lets get back to our core competency: i386-architecture processors it is. What's AMD been doing recently?

    1. Re:Core Competency by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 0

      Well, the most recent iteration of Core seems more like Core incompetency, but still... I was wondering as soon as Edison appeared in the news when they'd cancel it again. :)

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    2. Re:Core Competency by sircastor · · Score: 2

      I too have seen this happen several times. When I started my current job, Intel was a major contributor to a software project that we were working on> When I transitioned from contract to full-time employee, one of my questions at my interview was "If Intel decides to leave the space, what happens to us?" Fortunately my managers and the company were well prepared to pivot while still accomplishing our targets. Intel likes to jump into a space and throw resources at a problem hoping to out-compete the industry leader(s). I can't remember a successful effort with that strategy though.

    3. Re:Core Competency by AlanObject · · Score: 3, Informative

      Intel likes to jump into a space and throw resources at a problem hoping to out-compete the industry leader(s). I can't remember a successful effort with that strategy though.

      Intel has had several successes. In the non-CPU product line the Network Products group (not switches) has done pretty well.

      They have also had a pretty good lasting impact on industry initiatives that they sponsored, like PCI. DPDK looks like it is getting lots of traction for something that used to be just a Intel proprietary download. Also look at any community forum like those from IEEE or IETF. You see lots of intel.com engineers contributions there.

      I am all in favor of them using their considerable resources to incubate technologies and products. The moral of the story which is hard for some people to learn is do not assume that it is going to be successful or that it is even going to continue just because Intel is behind it now.

    4. Re:Core Competency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. With this kind of short term and short sighted poking actions Intel has now lost credibility in mobile, IoT and other but not servers, desktops and laptops (x86_64 arch). It doesn't help either how they handled with C2000 FUBAR, just fixing their errors in their docs and "saying we're really sorry that it happened" and left device makers and their customers taking recovering costs alone.

      So what we learned is to avoid years to come all Intel gear excluding std server, desktop and laptops with their chips inside. No chance we're giving them chance to fool us more with other junk they make any more.

    5. Re:Core Competency by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      To fill in Step 2: Put in a piss weak attempt thinking that the primary concern of the target market boils down to one thing such as cost or performance all while getting that one thing fundamentally wrong.

      Intel could have owned the market, but they would have had to understand it first.

    6. Re:Core Competency by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      Haha, sad but true.

    7. Re:Core Competency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Intel's long term commitment to the embedded market has always been pathetic. They made a wonderful 386-based embedded processor, got lots of design wins, then canceled it, totally fucking the companies that designed it in. Same with RISC products, same with the "supercomputer on a chip" stuff. Embedded products often have lifespans of 20 years. Intel has never "gotten it".

    8. Re:Core Competency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck you, you ignorant piece of shit.

  6. Intel Don' Need No Steenking Makers by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

    When they are making bank on their desktop and Server CPUs the way they are, the last thing they need is a bunch of snot-nosed kids.

    Instead, they are focusing their resources on staving-off the coming AMD CPU wave...

    1. Re:Intel Don' Need No Steenking Makers by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

      When they are making bank on their desktop and Server CPUs the way they are, the last thing they need is a bunch of snot-nosed kids.

      Instead, they are focusing their resources on staving-off the coming AMD CPU wave...

      HELLO! 1990 is calling!

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    2. Re:Intel Don' Need No Steenking Makers by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      When they are making bank on their desktop and Server CPUs the way they are, the last thing they need is a bunch of snot-nosed kids.

      Instead, they are focusing their resources on staving-off the coming AMD CPU wave...

      HELLO! 1990 is calling!

      What goes around...

  7. Re: Thanks Trump! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, Hillary would totally have bought more Edison boards! 7 dollar AVR? Nah, x86 is worth the extra cost

  8. Wrong size by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not like Intel's stuff sucked; it just wasn't the right size for most makers' problems.

    For most makers' problems, something as weak as an Arduino is fucking perfect. For a few cases, you need a little more and the ARM stuff (e.g. pi) is fine.

    If you need more than that, though, why settle for Intel's little stuff? Just have a Xeon box somewhere and your little mobile ARM thing can talk to it over wifi.

    What size problems did Edison fit? Nothing that I can think of. Never needed one. Edison was too expensive and overkill for small problems, and too weak for big ones.

  9. Not really a huge surprise by JohnFen · · Score: 1

    Intel's offerings in this market have been weak in terms of price/performance compared to the competition.

  10. Intel microcontrollers were too expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When compared to Arduino Uno R3 and other microcontrollers, Intel microcontrollers were too expensive, bulky, and slow compared. No communitiy formed around these microcontrollers because Intel was unresponsive to the community. Sort of like big companies like Oracle who are unresponsive or allergic to community efforts.

    Let me see: $25 for an Ardunio UNO with a huge responsive community vs. $90 for a microcontroller from Intel where there is no community. Hmmm...

    1. Re:Intel microcontrollers were too expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let me see: $25 for an Ardunio UNO with a huge responsive community vs. $90 for a microcontroller from Intel where there is no community. Hmmm...

      It is not even $25, the chinese clones run for $2 or $3.

    2. Re:Intel microcontrollers were too expensive by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      ...and less than $5 for a blue pill that runs rings around the curie chip.

      no one on the 'americas greatest makers' tv show got their custom board to work, even WITH intel's 'expert' help.

      that says it all.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    3. Re:Intel microcontrollers were too expensive by Kevin+Stevens · · Score: 1

      There was very little market for that kind of power as well. I was doing lots of IOT stuff 2-3 years back (before I ran out of potential projects), and to me the ideal way to go was to use super cheap chips like the esp8266 to gather sensor data and do the simple logic stuff (Ex: If soil moisture x, write to pin 12 for 30 seconds, which turns on a solenoid that lets waterflow), but then send that data to a "real" computer, probably in the cloud, to do any real processing on it. The only place I saw use for a Galileo type product was for when there was no internet available, yet you were in a location that you could not or would not want to set up a laptop. Drone projects that have to process gyroscopical, GPS, and perhaps video data in near real time for example- but the applications were relatively few.

      They aren't the first to miss the mark here- For awhile I was playing with a Tessel, which was also about $80, which runs node.js natively, and it was processing data and serving a web interface that was visualizing the sensor data, but it was slow, and had other drawbacks like dealing with dynamic IPs and the wifi on the first gen was so flakey it was almost unusable, but really in the end what landed it in the dust bin was that it made tons more sense to just buy super cheap chips to collect that sensor data and store it somewhere- the whole system was a lot more robust and usable that way.

    4. Re: Intel microcontrollers were too expensive by John+Allsup · · Score: 1

      And weren't the Intel offerings a tad easier to fry?

      --
      John_Chalisque
    5. Re:Intel microcontrollers were too expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Arduino Uno R3 isn't a microcontroller. It's a dev board.

    6. Re:Intel microcontrollers were too expensive by DanoTime · · Score: 1

      Sorry to be so daft, but what do you mean, exactly? I am missing the reference "Blue Pill" is that a reference to IBM? the chip you reference does that run x86?

    7. Re:Intel microcontrollers were too expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Blue pills" are tiny ARM powered boards with microcontroller from ST Micro. They generally cost about $2-3 US dollars from China. Quite powerful and fully open. Big community built up around them. They are called "blue pills" because of the color of the circuit board.

    8. Re:Intel microcontrollers were too expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's not it. Being more expensive than arduino is only a problem for hobbyists/thinkerers with little to no needs (beginners). Sure, it had poor documentation, almost zero support and all of that. And x86 instructions (but without PC compatibility) is not an advantage -- much the inverse.

      The real deal killer was: it's a low-end MCU (and a very crappy one at that) but for a LOT of $. No one sane would develop with that. Their crippled 32MHz MCU was ~$30, when you can get "standard" ARM Cortex M7 parts starting from $6.50 (for example: ATSAMS70J19A, in single unit quantities) that absolutely slaughter this in every way. These parts are 300MHz+, have much more flash and RAM, a set of peripherals that's at least 10x better, low power, uses standard free dev tools (often based on gcc-arm-none-eabi and eclipse), etc. Even the middle-range M3/M4/M4F parts run circles around it. And ARM Cortex M "scales" all the way from the low-end M0 to the super fast M7.

      There's thousands of Cortex M parts at every level, from over a dozen manufacturers, that sell very well (more than mega328's) despite being much more expensive than arduino boards. There's definitely a market for it. however this was low-end performance, low-end garbage but with a premium price, and without any of the advantages.

    9. Re:Intel microcontrollers were too expensive by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      They were not at all slow in comparison. What they were was horribly documented. You couldn't make the thing work even if you wanted to, even if you had a project that could justify the price, and even if your project had the space and power capacity to handle it.

      The hardware itself wasn't a problem. It just wasn't in the same target market as an Arduino despite what the marketing said, and it wasn't supported. ... like at all.

    10. Re:Intel microcontrollers were too expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, it's pretty much never a MCU from ST Micro. ~100% of the time it's a chinese knock-off (GigaDevice GD32) on the board.

      Personally I'll stick to dev boards from major, reputable manufacturers.

    11. Re:Intel microcontrollers were too expensive by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The Intel platform didn't really offer anything compelling either. Nothing you couldn't do with an Arduino shield.

      As well as being ridiculously expensive, it was entering a very crowded market. Arduino and the various versions on one side, Raspberry Pi on the other. There was just no need for an Intel product.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    12. Re:Intel microcontrollers were too expensive by Megane · · Score: 1

      If it is, then they are making counterfeit chips with ST markings. I bought a bag of 20 bluepill boards a few months ago, and they were all ST-labeled. The other thing is that bluepill boards use the 64K flash version. They all have 128K flash (which is great if you are using mbed, since it matches a supported ST Nucleo board), but the extra 64K isn't certified. It is still very likely that the other 64K works, but it's cheaper for ST to make one die and only certify the other half for customers that want to pay an extra ten cents.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  11. Following in Google's footsteps. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Intel following in Google's steps. Neither can seem to hang onto their endeavors.

  12. "Maker Movement" was just a hipster fad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Maybe Intel is facing stronger competition these days. But the real problem in this case probably just is that the "Maker Movement" was nothing more than yet another hipster fad. It's typically not possible to make profit off of hipster fads.

    The difference between hipster fads and normal fads is that hipster fads exhibit a social media amplification effect beyond what even most other fads exhibit.

    In a typical widespread fad, there is a large amount of demand and a large amount of hype. But the ratio of demand to hype is relatively even, allowing for some profit to be made off of the fad. For every unit of hype that attracts the attention of producers, there's a corresponding unit of demand. The producers can actually sell what they're making, and if they do this well they can make a profit.

    A hipster fad is different in that the ratio of demand to hype is very skewed. There is little demand, but a comparatively huge amount of hype. This means that profit cannot be made as easily, if at all. For every unit of hype that attracts the attention of producers, there is only a very small fractional unit of demand. The producers end up producing too much relative to the small demand, which actually has the effect of driving prices down to below profitable levels.

    This situation arises because hipsters excel at producing hype, especially on the Internet, yet never manage to back up this hype with ability. This is quite evident within the computer software industry, where a lot of hipsters try to participate. We see huge hype bubbles surrounding technologies like Ruby on Rails and Rust, yet despite all of the hype we see very little of value actually delivered.

    It's similar for this low-end computing hardware. A lot of hipster types like to exclaim how they're "makers" because it sounds good in social media discussion, yet they lack the skills, ability, interest and typically the money (they usually spend this on overly expensive products, such as those from Apple) to actually go out and buy any low-end computing hardware. If they do happen to buy it, they end up not doing anything with it, or stop trying after quickly failing to accomplish anything with it.

    The real lesson here is that companies in general should smarten up and ignore what hipsters are saying and doing. They're among the worst markets to target, unless you're Apple and you're exploiting the vanity of hipsters. But there's only room enough for one Apple-style company which totally drains the resources of hipsters, leaving very little for the rest of the market to extract. That's why the rest of the market shouldn't even bother.

    1. Re:"Maker Movement" was just a hipster fad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      As I reach for a $20 prototyping board, I for one thank our Hipster Overlords for the terrible thing they have done.

    2. Re:"Maker Movement" was just a hipster fad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We've had worst fad really.
      Nothing wrong with everyone & their dogs trying to play around with arduino and raspberry pi.
      Actually I believe there should be more of it, in schools.

      Also they are not all dump, I'm thinking about Jeri Ellsworth, with more E.E. knowledge than your average MIT phd.

    3. Re:"Maker Movement" was just a hipster fad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a lot of ire directed towards "hipster fads." Why you mad though?

    4. Re:"Maker Movement" was just a hipster fad. by tsqr · · Score: 1

      You seem to be confused about the difference between anger and disgust.

    5. Re:"Maker Movement" was just a hipster fad. by darkain · · Score: 2

      And this right here is exactly why Intel is leaving the market. I was just gifted a brand new Joule over the weekend, and looked up the current selling price... $350. Yes, more than 10x the cost of other boards. Granted, this board is more powerful than my laptop, but in the "maker" space, that much power is overkill. Not only that, it expects 20-40w power supply for it, not something I could easily shove a small battery at for any length of time. Other than for 4k video processing, who else in this space needs 4GB of 25GB/sec DDR4 RAM on a quad-core CPU that bursts over 2GHz!? Granted, for my prototyping needs in the lab, this thing is freaggin AMAZING, but for what I'm building, production will be using one of those cheap $20 boards in the field.

    6. Re:"Maker Movement" was just a hipster fad. by k6mfw · · Score: 1

      It's similar for this low-end computing hardware. A lot of hipster types like to exclaim how they're "makers" because it sounds good in social media discussion, yet they lack the skills, ability, interest and typically the money ...

      Reminds me of various websites that talk about how to build this neat gadget to do this and that and everything else. But when I want more details on how to build it, those are lacking. Or there appears lots of details but nothing substantial. Are they hiding the important proprietary stuff you need to build it, or like you said they don't really know how to build it? This is not to be confused with knowledgable person but doesn't include all the details because they're spending too much on the next project!

      --
      mfwright@batnet.com
    7. Re:"Maker Movement" was just a hipster fad. by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      If you prototype on something with that much more power, you run a real risk of building a prototype that can never be run on real hardware.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    8. Re:"Maker Movement" was just a hipster fad. by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      What hipsters are whining about right at the moment is how the vinyl turntables they are buying today fall short of their their memories of high-end Seventies hardware. You would think that they could now make their own, better, Arduino-based turntable. But no.

    9. Re:"Maker Movement" was just a hipster fad. by mattr · · Score: 1

      Actually I met one startup that had built a very cool toy robot with CV capabilities, it is on sale now and they were using the Joule board.

    10. Re:"Maker Movement" was just a hipster fad. by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      > who else in this space needs 4GB of 25GB/sec DDR4 RAM on a quad-core CPU that bursts over 2GHz!?

      Me for one. I'm still waiting for a cheap board < $75 that has 4GB RAM + Quad Core. Ideally ~ $45. I also want an option for a 3D GPU that isn't lame. In case you are wondering the use case -- this would be used for teaching kids game development.

      The 2 biggest problems with the Raspberry Pi are:

      a) it has no RTC (Real Time Clock). (WTF is this shit? 1980 all over again??) This makes it practically useless for anything of precise timing measurements.
      b) it is gimped to 1 GB. Sure it has 4 cores but if you divide the RAM up per core that is only 256 KB each. It is a 32-bit ARM CPU -- let me USE the FULL address space.

      I'll guess I'll keep waiting another 5+ years as the "low-end" of cheap hardware slowly creeps up to be performant.

    11. Re:"Maker Movement" was just a hipster fad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The real problem for Intel entering the "maker movement" is that there are too many makers to pay off when they try to buy their dominant market position, which is what has worked for them in all the industries they have been successful in so far.

  13. Less makers, more platform security modules! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Out with the "everybody can code" movement, in with the "programmers are hand-models, MAGA bigly!" ... I saw that stinky Obama man encourage people to code!!

    1. Re: Less makers, more platform security modules! by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 0

      Well if we are talking MAGA and hands, I believe the word you are looking for is "tiny" :^)

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  14. Not a Surprise by Rob+Riggs · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Anyone who ever seriously considered Intel's "maker" products for embedded use (as I did) would quickly find that they were power hungry and over-priced. Either one of those problems would be death in this market.

    Marketing can cover a lot of sins, but these together are really hard to overcome. "Let's market the shit out of this shit" only really works when aimed at consumers or executives. Makers are engineers. They can smell the bullshit from miles away.

    It's a healthier marketplace without such inferior offerings in it.

    --
    the growth in cynicism and rebellion has not been without cause
    1. Re:Not a Surprise by JohnFen · · Score: 2

      Makers are engineers. They can smell the bullshit from miles away.

      And even if they don't the bullshit becomes impossible to miss during the prototyping stage.

    2. Re:Not a Surprise by Megane · · Score: 1

      When I went to maker faires, the only projects I ever saw using Intel's boards were done by students, who obviously got them free or at a very discounted price. Seriously, it seems like Intel's only purpose was "microcontrollers, but USING EX-EIGHTY-SIIIIIIIIIX!"

      Their other boards (Edison, etc.) had this tiny-ass connector that was very maker UN-friendly, and not even designed for many attach-remove cycles. And then they refused to release detailed NDA-free chipset documentation; it was supposedly hard even for people who knew actual Intel engineers to figure shit out.

      They couldn't make up their mind whether they were going for professional embedded manufacturers with an engineering department, going for makers, or just trying to make an excuse for X86 In Everything. And they managed to fail at all of these.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  15. Who needs Intel? Check out Espressif by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'll give you a maker success where Intel failed. Check out the ESP8266

    http://esp8266.net/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESP8266

    Originally sold as a low cost serial-connected wifi solution so manufactures could at "Internet" to products. Espressif also offered the now ubiquitous ESP-01 module that quickly became a very popular and cheap way to add wifi to existing arduino projects.

    Then someone started poking around at the chip itself and found it was many times more powerful than the micros that it was being connected to. (About 80 times faster than the atmega that powers the Uno) Also has a LOT more memory and flash.

    They asked Espressif for and SDK.. And they gave it to them. Fast forward, we've got an opensource tool chain and a number powerful frameworks including native arduino support.

    And arduino-like boards with gpio and power regulators and all that fun stuff so you can run sketches directly. Like the Wemos D1.. Which is about 4 bucks on ali express. (Yeah. 4 bucks for a really fast arduino WITH wifi and more memory and more storage)

    The ESP8266 was designed as a wifi-add on so it lacks a lot of features and gpio that the usual general micros have. Fortunatly the thing is fast clever programming and bit-banging can get around a lot of that. Still, there is a lack of physical pins.. And you have to be careful not to stall the or tie up the CPU with your code or wifi will drop. .. So enter the ESP32. Espressif hired the guys who wrote the tool chains above and put out a new product. Wifi, bluetooth, More memory and flash. Two cpu cores so services can run on one and your code won't break them. Lots of GPIO pins with native hardware support for a lot of peripherals and communication protocols.

    https://espressif.com/en/products/hardware/esp32/overview

    Open SDK and toolchain. Arduino support is still a work in progress and other frameworks are coming right a long.

  16. all hands on desk to beat AMD they don't have time by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    all hands on desk to beat AMD they don't have time for this as they may need to make a big move to save there ass / free up room for big price cuts.

  17. Big corporations are clueless about this stuff by RobinH · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This reminds me of the book Makers. In that book, near the beginning, Polaroid tries to reinvent itself through the "maker movement" and completely self-destructs. The "maker" thing is really the same thing as "open source" which is people sharing ideas with each other. As soon as you try to apply business philosophy to that, it's like trying to apply a business philosophy to the Apollo program. When you don't know what's out there, you just need exploration, not exploitation. Companies can't handle the risk involved - it's all too uncertain for a 4 year payback.

    People in their own workshops and homes are doing some amazing stuff. Companies see this and think they need to get in on it, but the hobbyists aren't doing it to make money, and most of them don't have much money, so there isn't much money to be made.

    When I was younger I made less money and didn't have a family so I had a lot more time to put into hobbies and stuff. I scrounged through spare parts bins and re-used whatever I could. I could spend hours price-comparing and trying to find components that were $2 instead of $3 to save a buck. But back then I was a real "maker". Now I have more money and a lot less time. I take on much simpler projects and I'm willing to spend money to get it done faster. I don't buy the $2 or the $3 component - I buy the $20 pre-assembled solution and plug it in. So I don't want to buy Intel's fancy Arduino because it doesn't really save me any time, and my old self wouldn't either because it's too expensive for what it does.

    --
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
    1. Re:Big corporations are clueless about this stuff by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      People in their own workshops and homes are doing some amazing stuff. Companies see this and think they need to get in on it, but the hobbyists aren't doing it to make money, and most of them don't have much money, so there isn't much money to be made.

      It depends on how they're trying to make money. As the old adage says, "When there's a gold rush you make money by selling shovels" or something.

      As an example, I have a project that requires me to do plastic welding. I know I can just wing it with a regular soldering iron, but I'm looking for a budget-friendly plastic welder that uses plastic rods like the pros use. But those things start at around USD$200~300 and there's no way I'm buying something that expensive to weld two boxes.

      A plastic welder is probably relatively easy to do myself and with 3D printers everywhere I could buy a roll of 3MM filament instead of high-priced industrial plastic rods too. I just haven't found any plans yet and I'm not sure how an industrial plastic welder works.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    2. Re:Big corporations are clueless about this stuff by Thelasko · · Score: 1

      You either have time, or you have money. It's a rare occurrence to find someone that has both. That's a very important thing to remember when setting the requirements for any new project. It has to satisfy that trade-off, because people don't want an expensive waste of time.

      However, there are a few exceptions.

      --
      One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    3. Re:Big corporations are clueless about this stuff by sootman · · Score: 1

      Makers is available to read online, in its entirety, free, from the author.
      http://craphound.com/makers/Co...

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    4. Re:Big corporations are clueless about this stuff by RobinH · · Score: 1

      Make magazine had an article about plastic welding by using 3D printer filament in a dremel or other rotary tool. Maybe that'll work for what you need?

      --
      "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
    5. Re:Big corporations are clueless about this stuff by erapert · · Score: 1

      People in their own workshops and homes are doing some amazing stuff. Companies see this and think they need to get in on it, but the hobbyists aren't doing it to make money, and most of them don't have much money, so there isn't much money to be made.

      No, there's just no room for Intel coming in like they own the place and trying to sell their insanely overpriced crap and offering zero support.

      In this context "support" doesn't mean a helpdesk with an Indian sitting at it.

      "Support" means "I can install the development tools on literally every platform from Windows200 to Linux to Mac to BSD to Haiku to Plan9". It does NOT mean "this only works if you're on Windows 10"
      It means "when I'm trying to figure something out can I google it and get some straight forward instructions that work and not a page full of bullshit "Enterprise" jargon that doesn't fucking work or doesn't adequately address the issue I'm having.
      It means if I spend money on an Arduino shield or a doodad for an RPi it will also work with this thing from Intel with minimal kajiggering. It doesn't mean "our stuff is completely incompatible with everything else out there... it only accepts our other overpriced thingies... that we really don't put any effort into..."
      It means that Intel continues to release updates and fix bugs and possibly even fund a couple of cool projects and not just say "hey guise, buy this overpriced thing from us while we are dead silent and do nothing".
      It means releasing a product that actually has something interesting and awesome about it-- just slapping a craptastic x86 chip on there is not awesome and it's not interesting and it brings nothing new to the world at all.

      If you're reading this, Intel, you should know that everyone is on the fence about you. We like high performance CPUs but we dislike it when you are hostile to us, your customers.

      Intel, your Management Engine crap is absolutely unacceptable. We do not want out-of-band chips monitoring everything we do and providing back doors to our systems. Until you take the ME and TPM out of your platforms I'll be buying AMD. And yes, I know AMD has pretty much the same thing on their platform. But the money won't be going into your pocket now will it, Intel?

      Thanks for improving your graphics drivers on Linux, though. I really appreciate it.

      If only you could stop being bipolar, Intel, and just be cool.

    6. Re:Big corporations are clueless about this stuff by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      It does NOT mean "this only works if you're on Windows 10"

      This is an excellent point. My personal machines are all Linux. If I'm looking at a new platform, requiring me to set up an entirely different OS to develop on is an immediate showstopper.

      Likewise, if the development tools require the use of anything in the cloud, that's an immediate showstopper.

    7. Re:Big corporations are clueless about this stuff by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      Yes, I have read about that method last week, I do plan on trying it but I don't have any polyethylene filament.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    8. Re:Big corporations are clueless about this stuff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are inexpensive (~ $30) 3D "pens" out there that will use standard PLA filament. (There are others that cost more, too.)

      It takes a bit of practice to get a good weld (I used one to assemble something I made from 3D-printed parts, I couldn't do it all in one print job), but it works.

  18. This whole thing never made sense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If Intel had wanted to OWN this market, they already did, back in the 90s through mid '00s. 8051, the non-milspec i960 models, strongarm, you name it, they probably had a product line to cover it.

    They were once one of the largest embedded device and memory manufacturers in the world, but divested themselves of it because it was high volume and low profit, unlike x86, which they chose to focus on at the expense of almost all else (there are some obvious examples to the contrary, notably their ethernet controllers, which are used in all sorts of places, including AMD hardware, much like you could find AMD parallel flash on Intel branded motherboards some years ago.

    1. Re:This whole thing never made sense. by LinuxIsGarbage · · Score: 1

      If Intel had wanted to OWN this market, they already did, back in the 90s through mid '00s. 8051, the non-milspec i960 models, strongarm, you name it, they probably had a product line to cover it.

      They were once one of the largest embedded device and memory manufacturers in the world, but divested themselves of it because it was high volume and low profit, unlike x86, which they chose to focus on at the expense of almost all else

      Which is a good thing, because in the early to mid 2000's their flagship was the Netburst Pentium 4 / Pentium D which was a piece of fucking shit. They were making laptops with built in toaster ovens, while AMD was making (relatively efficient) K8 at half the clock rate, and pushing for x86-64, while Intel was investing in the flop of the Itanium. Thankfully they released the Pentium-M, onto which they based their whole business (further developing it into Core) while they threw Netburst wholesale into the garbage. AMD unfortunately stagnated quite a while after their K8 win.

  19. creimer joined it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But he thought it was the Baker Movement and he showed up with a bib and two big forks at the meeting!

  20. Intel execs are idiots by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    The "maker mouvement" isn't fueled by high-priced gadgets. In fact it's the opposite, it's people building things for themselves because either what they want doesn't exists or because what already exists costs too much.

    Arduino became successful because it was powerful enough and cheap enough for thousands of projects. Then it became extremely successful when China started selling clones at about 25% or less than the original. If you have space on your PCB design, it costs less to add an Arduino Pro mini at around $2 than adding a bare ATmega328P + crystal + caps.

    Intel's game is to make extreme profits just like Apple. If AMD entered the "maker mouvement" they would probably have a chance because they'd design for a fixed cost, not a high-end features list.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  21. Re: Thanks Trump! by andydread · · Score: 2

    Actually, Why not? She totally rolled her own email server.

  22. didn't find a market by AnAlchemist · · Score: 1

    Check it: Intel Edison w/ Mini Breakout board at https://www.adafruit.com/produ...: $75!

    Sure, it's got a dual-core, dual-threaded Atom, a gig of RAM, Wifi, and Bluetooth, but it's too expensive to just say "Sure, I'll grab one and play around with weekend."

    You can grab the Starter Pack at https://www.adafruit.com/produ... for only $65, and look at all the components you get! And a ton of components, including LEDs, power supply, etc.

    Technically, it competes with the Raspberry Pi, not the Arduino, but it's got a weird Linux distro (to which the forums are hard to find and use the terrible mailman interface) and a hell of a lot less example projects and much higher power consumption.

    I don't understand the difference between the Galileo, Edison, and Joule (and you can't get the Joule on adafruit anyway), which speaks toward poor technical documentation.

    In short, too expensive and not enough examples for hobbyists, and professionals are going for lower-power consumption, better software, and something cheaper.

    1. Re: didn't find a market by zilym · · Score: 1

      What a pathetic PCB design... It doesn't appear to match arduino at all, it doesn't even have dual inline pins for plugging it into a breadboard. Are they expecting me to wire wrap a spaggethi wire nest to hook this thing up to my project?

      Clueless, absolutely clueless.

  23. Re: Thanks Trump! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ah, you got me there :-)