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Nissan Won't Build Its Own Electric Car Batteries Anymore (cnet.com)
An anonymous reader shares a report: Balancing every single task by oneself, instead of getting some help, can break a person down in record time. That's likely why Nissan has decided to step away from manufacturing batteries for its electric vehicles. Nissan announced on Tuesday that it would sell its battery-manufacturing subsidiary, Automotive Energy Supply Corporation (AESC), to the Chinese investment firm GSR Capital. "This is a win-win for AESC and Nissan. It enables AESC to utilize GSR's wide networks and proactive investment to expand its customer base and further increase its competitiveness," said Hiroto Saikawa, president and CEO of Nissan, in a statement. "In turn, this will further enhance Nissan's EV competitiveness. AESC will remain a very important partner for Nissan as we deepen our focus on designing and producing market-leading electric vehicles."
Seriously, they control their own future and have the ability to drop costs relative to others.
OTOH, companies like Nissan, GM, Ford, etc that do NOT build their own plants will not be able to compete against Germans (who are late to the game, but getting there), the Chinese (who will learn how to properly make cars, but at this time, only a fool would buy), and Tesla.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Nissan's battery factories are in Japan; Zama and Sagamihara Kanagawa. They'll be shutting those for GSR's Chinese factories.
Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
Maybe we should just get it over with and surrender to the Chinese. They're going to own us all eventually anyway. It's amazing what you can do with the slave labor of 1.2 billion people at your disposal.
Nissan did the Tesla strategy before Tesla did; namely in order to build a mass-market EV (Leaf) they need to control their own supply chain and partnered with NEC to form AESC to build their own batteries. In the beginning they were market leaders (example: Nissan+NEC Leaf was MUCH better then the Mitsubishi+Toshiba iMiev)
What is interesting is GM+LG Chem and Tesla+Panasonic made better batteries cheaper then Nissan+NEC; the latest Leaf is evidence of that (2018 Leaf is expected to be 160 miles of range whereas the BoltEV is 238 miles of range both within the same price range, size and weight).
So Nissan is jumping ship and going to LG Chem. Now what will be fascinating is both Hyundai, GM and Nissan will be competing for LG Chem Cells.
The other wildcard is Samgsung+BMW; so far their cells have not been competitive; I'm curious if they'll step up or bow out like NEC did.
Balancing every single task by oneself, instead of getting some help, can break a person down in record time.
Nissan is a large company, with lots of people.
This is either selling assets to pay down debt, or upper management thinking that they can't be competitive as battery manufacturers.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
Tesla's next vehicle will be coal powered according to multiple sources. Clean American coal is the future, not lithium.
There are pros and cons to outsourcing. But if there's one thing that's asymptotic to pure truth, it's never ever outsource your core competency.
In the case of EVs, your core competencies are Battery Design and EV Drivetrain.
Outsourcing half your core competency right as the market starts to pick up and get competitive sure seems like surefire way to be left behind.
"Balancing every single task by oneself, instead of getting some help, can break a person down in record time. "
Good thing Nissan is not a person. Seriously you are comparing apples to monkeys here.
Have YOU ever used an electric car? Because everyone I've talked to who has, has said they're never going back to an ICE car.
My wife has a LEAF and a short enough commute to work and activities that the car works for her. I have a Volt that I primarily drive in EV mode. We both have Level 2 chargers at home and at work; but the LEAF has a 6.6kW charger, and can accept Level 3 CHAdeMo fast charging. So the double-sized LEAF battery can completely charge in the same time (or less) as the Volt. I know of a city dweller who has a Volt, and they charge it when they go grocery shopping.
So personal circumstances do matter.
The issues you bring up are certainly impediments, but an EV with with a decent battery and range extender (like the Volt or BMW i3) I think is the way things will progress. The battery needs to be bigger (at least 100 miles cold range) and the ICE needs to be able to charge the battery while running, not just maintain the charge. It also needs a highway mode that will choose EV or ICE depending on efficiency at speed. So take a Prius Prime, Volt, i3, mish-mash them together.
Interesting that you don't drive an EV.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
So Nissan gets their engines from Mazda and Cummins and now they'll get their batteries from someone else as well.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
Elon Musk continues to take billions in taxpayer subsidies through his various "green" shell companies, and we're worried that a company that isn't a battery manufacturer wants to get its batteries from a company that IS a battery manufacturer?
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundi...
Interesting that you don't drive an EV.
I drive an EV, and would not go back to an ICE.
Advantages:
I save time and money by not going to gas stations.
My garage doesn't stink.
The maintenance is much less.
It is fun to drive.
I have nerd-cred.
Disadvantages:
I have to stop for 20 minutes every few hours on long trips.
But this far outweighed by the many many times that I don't have to go to gas stations.
Also worth noting that Tesla has the highest owner satisfaction rating in the industry, with 91% saying would buy again (the next closest being Porsche at 84%)
Tesla only makes electric cars. So, read into that what you will.
He's really very... gentle... and fuzzy. We're becoming fast friends.
Let me get this straight. It takes 10x longer to recharge your electric car than it takes to fill a car with gas. And you have to recharge your electric car 4x to 5x more often than a car needs to be filled with gas. Yet somehow you think you're 'saving time'?!
you have to recharge your electric car 4x to 5x more often than a car needs to be filled with gas. Yet somehow you think you're 'saving time'?!
Yes. It charges overnight in my garage, or in my parking space at work, while I go about my life. I don't have to sit and wait while it charges. I just park, plug in, and walk away.
Let me get this straight. When you need to stop for gas - say, when you realize "Oh, I need to stop for gas on the way home", you get home only two minutes (20 / 2) later than you otherwise would? Yeah, sure.
EV drivers in their normal everyday lives never stop and think "Oh, I need to stop for gas on the way home" because they start every day with a full tank. The time to connect your vehicle at home is basically insignificant (not that you have to charge every day if for some reason you don't want to).
I don't even know what your "4x to 5x" is supposed to mean. A Model 3 has a range from 220 to 310 miles, depending on which variant one gets. Do you think your average car has a range of 880 to 1550 miles? Heck, the only reason that gasoline vehicles have the range they do is to avoid the inconvenience of having to randomly detour from your everyday life to go to a dirty gas station and breathe carcinogenic (literally) fumes while standing outside fueling your vehicle, regardless of the weather. There's no point to 400+ miles range otherwise; it's not safe to drive for such long periods on the highway without stopping, your attention to the road wanes.
He's really very... gentle... and fuzzy. We're becoming fast friends.
Interesting that you don't drive an EV.
I drive an EV, and would not go back to an ICE.
Advantages: ....
I save time and money by not going to gas stations.
My garage doesn't stink.
My garage doesn't stink either despite having two ICE cars in it. You probably had a dead possum or something back in there somewhere.
Great. So Nissan will be using shitty Chinese-made batteries. Expect to see lots of news stories about Nissan EVs exploding in fireballs for no reason while sitting in traffic.
or in my parking space at work
Where is that? (I can't imagine it being a red state.)
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
Open your ICE hood/bonnet. What does the radiator say? Denso. What does the AC compressor say? Denso.
It pretty does not matter what car you purchase today. The parts overlap significantly. Companies that crank out more parts volume can do it for lower cost.
To lower the battery cost, manufacturers need volume. Right now, there is not enough volume for one manufacturer to make the venture profitable. The price point has been getting lower over the years though.
My Leaf gets more compliments than my Porsche. The difference is who I get them from. Almost all of the Leaf complements come from women, while the Porsche complements come from men.
It is simply a matter of taste.
Where is that?
San Jose, California.
(I can't imagine it being a red state.)
Texas has more charging stations than any other state but California.
Wait... what?
>>And you have to recharge your electric car 4x to 5x more often than a car needs to be filled with gas
You have a car with a 1000 mile range on a tank of gas?
So so so so so so so much less.
I even had a battery problem that was fixed under warranty, and that was a hassle.. but nowhere near as much a hassle as going to the gas station all the time, getting oil changes on schedule, getting it smogged every 2 years, etc..
I don't want to since I can charge at work.. but even then, I only do it a couple of times a week at most (when I need to), and I have one of the lowest range cars.
Tesla reminds me a lot of Apple..... Knew exactly how to generate a "buzz" around their products, while actually doing a pretty good job of doing R&D to make cool (but expensive) things people want to own.
Apple users are often accused of being religious zealots too.
The thing is though? The "big boys" of automotive have a big disadvantage. They're heavily invested in internal combustion engines, unlike Tesla. Almost all of them are still trying to manufacture traditional vehicles while simultaneously switching some of them to electric. They aren't always building cars from the ground up, designed to only be electric. They're shoe-horning batteries and motors into cars that were originally designed for gasoline engines (like the Kia Soul).
Chevy seems like they have a better chance than the others, but they've been building electric cars (at least sporadically) since the 90's with the EV-1. And even with 2 of them on sale right now -- sales are sluggish and people are unexcited by them. I have low confidence they can compete head-to-head with Tesla because they lack imagination.
Shanghai Bill that old paid shill. We meet again.
Tesla sells to fanboys almost exclusively. Of course they have a high customer satisfaction rating.
San Jose, California
I'm not surprised.
Texas has more charging stations than any other state but California.
1) A guy as smart as you should know that's a damned meaningless statement: if the state with the third most chargers has 10 charging stations, then your statement would be true by Texas only having 11 charging stations.
2) Texas is becoming blue.
3) Are those charging stations in (far left) Austin and (really rich) northern Dallas suburbs, or out in hot, dusty Lubbock?
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
Pretty much. Current Tesla owners are surprisingly willing to put up with problems like having to return their cars for repair multiple times. It's not clear that the general public will be quite so kind to them.
Interesting that you don't drive an EV.
I don't drive an EV because I don't have a car. But if/when my life situation changes such that I need a car, it will be electric.
Unless you move to where charging stations aren't as ubiquitous as in San Jose.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
A Model 3 has a range from 220 to 310 miles
A Model 3 doesn't have the range for a long weekend at the quaint rural B&B two hours away (plus driving to all the little shops your wife wants to visit in the "nearby" town).
a dirty gas station and breathe carcinogenic (literally) fumes while standing outside fueling your vehicle
Not in the US in the (at least) past 15 years.
regardless of the weather.
In some very small town gas stations (where you wouldn't find an EV charging station anyway), but certainly not at 98% of gas stations in the US in the past 30 years.
There's no point to 400+ miles range otherwise; it's not safe to drive for such long periods
Fine: you find a Motel 6 off the Interstate and check in for the night. Good luck charging your EV over night.
Same with visiting distant friends/relatives: it would be grossly impolite to plug your car into someone else's power outlet.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
there are more than 900 stations in Texas spread all over (map does not include RV parks). /day
we have a Tesla that we charge overnight on a simple 120V since my wife only goes about 60 miles
when we take long trips we use the Tesla SCs, which make life easy.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
We do visit relatives that are 180 miles away, and when we do, we DO charge up at their house though it is because they volunteer it. After all, it is only about $2 which is less than the food or drink that we bring there.
And probably about 1/4 to 1/3 of hotels in America offer an EV charger that is either free or you pay a couple of bucks for.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Where are you getting that from? (also helpful: name the B&B and starting location)
How did gasoline manage to become non-carcinogenic (and neurotoxic, and a whole range of other toxicity effects) in the past 15 years?
Weather has ceased to exist in the US except in small towns? Or are you saying that US pumps connect themselves to your car on their own like a snake, as well as paying for you with EZ-pass?
Lol. Which Motel 6? This one? How about this one? This one maybe? Or perhaps this one? Maybe you meant this one? Or this one? Nah, must have been this one.. No, wait, this one! No, this one! Last guess, this one? Wait, wait a second! How many guesses do I get?
EV charging is now very common at hotels. And even if a place doesn't officially offer it, 9 times out of 10, if you call and ask, you get a "yes".
Right. Let me get this straight. "Welcome to my home. Thanks for driving five hours to see me! Come on in! Have a bite to eat! Walk on this carpet that I just cleaned! Feel at home! But don't you DARE use 80 cents an hour of electricity, or I'll cut you! No, you have to go plug in at one of the numerous superchargers on the way and have to suffer through half an hour to 80% full while you eat lunch. Muahaha, I've foiled your evil EV-driving plans with my penny-pinching make-you-eat-lunch-during-a-road-trip plot!"
He's really very... gentle... and fuzzy. We're becoming fast friends.
There appear to be only 20 SCs in Texas, including one in all of Houston, and one on the 240 mile drive from Houston to Dallas. As soon as you finish the drive, your first thought will be to hunt for a charging station.
And there are zero in vast swaths of the state.
In my state, there are six, the closest being 40 miles away. It'll be decades before there's an EV station in the where sisters live (at least 10 miles from the nearest small town).
And RV parks... is that electricity usage unmetered? (I bet it currently is, and they'll be mighty pissed when people start pulling in and -- effectively -- run a string of sixty 100W light bulbs for 10 hours.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
How did gasoline manage to become non-carcinogenic (and neurotoxic, and a whole range of other toxicity effects) in the past 15 years?
Little rubber collars on pump nozzles kept the gas in. Five years ago the rule mandating them was eliminated, because most cars have built-in fume traps. url:http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/10/politics/epa-gas-pump-handles/index.html> It was 70% back then, and I bet it's higher now.
Weather has ceased to exist in the US except in small towns? Or are you saying that US pumps connect themselves to your car on their own like a snake, as well as paying for you with EZ-pass?
Are there no awnings over the gas pumps in NY/NJ/PA (or wherever you are that E-ZPass is used)?
EV charging is now very common at hotels. And even if a place doesn't officially offer it, 9 times out of 10, if you call and ask, you get a "yes".
Interesting. I looked at one (https://www.plugshare.com/?location=63496#) and you've got to pay $20. That's a decent price for a tank of gas, but you should be morally outraged at the markup charged, since electricity is so cheap.
But don't you DARE use 80 cents an hour of electricity, or I'll cut you!
That's a serious math fail.
The average cost of electricity in the US is 14.2 cents/kWh. After a long trip, the tank is pretty depleted. In this case, 50 kWh (of a max 60kWh) seems a reasonable requirement to "tank up". That turns out to be $7.10.
Still not much, but (1) it adds up if the visitors are there for a few days, and (2) not everyone has lots of cash to spare.
you have to go plug in at one of the numerous superchargers on the way
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I've looked at the Tesla Supercharger map, and the closest one to me is 35 miles.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
At the national average of 14.2 cents/kWh, a 50kw charge (the "tank" is usually pretty empty after a long trip) is $7.10.
Not a lot, but it adds up, and is more than your estimate.
(Fans always underestimate costs and overestimate availability.)
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
national average is ~.11 with Colorado being .10. Pueblo, co is around .16/kwh, but they switched to time based so they pay .08/kwh in middle of night. .08, or $3.20-$4.00, which again, they do not care about.
In addition, we stop at c.springs and charge for free at Tesla SC site. So it is typically 40-50 kwh that we add at
Sadly, astroturfers always way overestimate.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
The MS has been defect free for some time ( until recently when musk pushes for quarterly). Yes, the MAX has more then their fair share of issues. And if Tesla produces M3 with MS quality, they will do great. Otoh, if done at MX level, well, they will have customer issues.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
You know those drips of gasoline when you pull the hose out? Drips on your fueling port, on the ground, on the pump? What do you think happens to them?
Yes, they vaporize. Fume traps on modern cars do not make gas stations vapour free.
I'm using US terms. I live in Iceland. I have however lived previously in the US.
Meh, business is business. It really doesn't matter because long distance trips are so infrequent for people. It's your everyday life that really matters. Besides, if you don't like what one charger charges, you can just pick another.
Someone failed to notice the words "an hour". :) I'm assuming charging at 120V 10A on midwestern or southern electricity, since that was my experience in the US. Add 50% for charging from a 15A, or 100% for 20A (somewhat risky for throwing a breaker, even from a bathroom). I'm presuming that you're not showing up and asking someone to disconnect their drier (240V/30A) or oven (240V/50A) for you. ;) I'm also presuming that they don't have a charging cable (aka, don't own an EV). But feel free to make your own assumptions.
Electricity is cheap. You do whatever you do when you visit a friend or family member and would cause them an expense (aka, going out to eat, going to the movies, travling together and incurring gas bills, etc) - either the whole "Oh, let me pay for that" "Oh no no, I've got it", "Please, let me pay..." routine, or the "pay for something else / bring a gift" routine.
And? You realize that the range on a Model 3 is 220 to 310 miles, right? Again: you stop on the way there or back, just like you do with gas stations. It's really not a tricky concept.
He's really very... gentle... and fuzzy. We're becoming fast friends.
Dueling government statistics!
At the bottom of https://www.bls.gov/regions/west/news-release/averageenergyprices_losangeles.htm
Table 1. Average prices for gasoline, electricity, and utility (piped) gas, Los Angeles-Riverside-Orange County and the United States, June 2016-June 2017, not seasonally adjusted
In June 2017, the "Electricity per kWh" cost for "United States" was $0.142.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
Unless you move to where charging stations aren't as ubiquitous as in San Jose.
I don't live in San Jose, I live in Canada. And they're not ubiquitous here (except Ontario and Quebec). But I would still get an electric, because most charging is done at home and what is available for charging infrastructure is enough for those times I would need it.
you stop on the way there or back, just like you do with gas stations. It's really not a tricky concept.
And when that one SC station happens to be in the opposite direction from where I want to go...? Or it's a long drive and tacking another 30 minutes, and tacking on another 30 minutes is a non-starter?
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
and what is available for charging infrastructure is enough for those times I would need it.
I'm as dubious of that as I am of there ever being a Year of the Linux Desktop.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
and what is available for charging infrastructure is enough for those times I would need it.
I'm as dubious of that as I am of there ever being a Year of the Linux Desktop.
So you know my own city better than me? Why in the world would I lie about what I need? Why in the world would I buy an electric car if it didn't suit my needs? I get it, you don't think they work for you. But that doesn't mean they don't work for everyone.
I'm dubious that you can foresee more than your immediate needs. Unexpected life-altering events happen regularly to young people.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
I'm dubious that you can foresee more than your immediate needs. Unexpected life-altering events happen regularly to young people.
Are you actually serious? Could you actually be more arrogant? I'm not young. Even if I was, I (or anyone else) don't need your paternalistic advice.
I'm not giving you advice; I'm expressing my opinion.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
The vehicle has a 220-310 mile range. Wait for one that's en route. They're not that far apart.
He's really very... gentle... and fuzzy. We're becoming fast friends.
You need to look at the Texas SC map. It's 306 miles from Dallas to Shamrock. Do you really want to cut things that close? And there are zero SC stations in southern NM.
But, you say, people have to stop and eat, and it's dangerous to drive that long without stopping for rest.
To that I day... team driving. My family and I do that quite often: pack water and supposedly healthy snacks, hop on the Interstate and hit the gas. Every 3-4 hours stop 10 minutes for bathroom, gasoline, and to switch drivers.
You can get damned far across the country in one day doing that, especially after the kids hit age 17.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
Wow. So many things wrong. First off, SCs we're never meant to be primary source of electricity. House plugs are. SCs are meant for in between end points of long distant driving. IOW, u charge at your original and then end point using much lower current and price electricity. If 100% of our vehicle s are EVs, and something like 85% of our vehicles charge at night time, it will actually lower total cost of electricity. These cars that charge in.daytime will in the end cost society with a higher electricity costs.
as to RV parks, Some of them simply charge by the hour and that solves that issue.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
No, you are making a series of incredibly wrong assumptions about me, and then suggesting you know better about my life situation than I do. You know nothing about my job, my relationship status, my income, my city, the type of building I live in, the size of my family, my travel needs, the stability of my situation, my age, or anything beyond the fact that I have no car, I am planning on an electric car, and I live in Canada. Yet somehow, you feel like you have a better handle on what I need than I do. Call it opinion if you want, but I'm calling it a very arrogant opinion.
Okay, finally we have some data - you're going from Dallas to Shamrock (and I presume NM also?). Where in Dallas? If you're starting on the south side or in town, stop at the Arlington supercharger; from the north, the Denton supercharger. There are four more opening up in Dallas this year . Even if you tried you couldn't get an M3 before they opened; the waiting list is two years long (there will be 2018 superchargers (not on the map) opening before someone who placed an order today got their car). Same story with the Wichita Falls supercharger - all of the gray ones on the map open this year (they've been flipping to red one by one - also, some that are still grey on the map are actually already functional, to varying degrees). Wichita Falls is 120 miles from the Arlington supercharger, 100 from Denton. From there it's 110 miles to the Childress supercharger, and from there, 55 to Shamrock. Also en route (at present): 18 non-Tesla chargers outside of Dallas, and many hundreds in Dallas, including over a dozen CHAdeMO/CCS (~50kW).
As for southern NM, I don't know what you're talking about. Truth or Consequences is already operational. Deming and Soccoro will be operational by the end of this year. And of course across the border the El Paso charger is operational.
If you want me to be more specific, you need to be more specific as to what routes you're talking about.
He's really very... gentle... and fuzzy. We're becoming fast friends.
IOW, u charge at your original and then end point using much lower current and price electricity.
And you blindly ignored my point that many people drive long distances where they can't stop overnight to charge, and there's no SC around. For example, tag-team driving across southern Texas to southern AZ.
Not to mention that heat and cold negatively impact battery performance.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
Where in Dallas? If you're starting on the south side or in town, stop at the Arlington supercharger; from the north, the Denton supercharger.
But you're supposed to charge up all night at home, so why in the world would you drive the short distance from home to the SC station and then juice up again? That makes no sense.
There needs to be a SC station between Dallas and Shamrock.
As for southern NM, I don't know what you're talking about.
I googled "Tesla supercharger new mexico" and saw none in the entire southern half of the state. A similar search for Texas doesn't show one in El Paso.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
Southern Taxes to Az, by end of 2017 though knowing Tesla, it is really be end of 2018. Still....
Still, this is no different than when I was a kid and in the 70s, esp on Sundays, we had to consider where gas stations where to drive from Illinois to Mich, or Illinois to California. Yet, by mid 80s, it was a none issue.
Same way with EVs, and no doubt Tesla will be the first. What is interesting is that their next SC that should be coming out now, will allow for 5-10 minute charges.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Eventually charging stations will get as ubiquitous as gas stations.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
You're the one who imposed the "no supercharging at the person's house" requirement (which doesn't match reality, FYI). I'm just meeting your impositions.
On the way. Hence Arlington if you're coming from the south and Denton if you're coming from the north.
By the time anyone in Texas gets a M3, there will be two. There's already one.
Okay, now we're seeing the problem. I'm pretty sure you're looking at "screenshots" of the supercharger map taken from random points in the past, not any of the live maps. It's important to always check the most current data; the network has been growing at a crazy rate.
This is Tesla's live supercharger map. Red means already fully operational. Grey means either currently unoperational or under construction; all under construction stations are scheduled to be finished by the end of this year (and the total number of stations tripled by the end of next year over what they are today).
Beyond superchargers (that map also has an option to show Tesla-branded destination chargers), there's exponentially more chargers over at Plugshare, of varying speeds. Note that you have to zoom in before they appear. Plugshare does not show any that are under construction. Superchargers are of course fastest, but they're going to be rivaled very soon by VW's network, which is targeting speeds even faster than the current generation of superchargers (but not as powerful as Tesla's new V3 supercharger, which is still under wraps). Current V2 superchargers are 145kW per charger (usually 4-8 chargers per station), max 120kW per vehicle, up to two vehicles connected to a charger at once (but with supercharger density maintained such that having to share a charger is rare - if it ever ceases to be rare that's a trigger to build more superchargers in an area). Volkswagen's network is going to be a mix of 150kW and 350kW chargers. When asked if Tesla's V3 would be 350kW, Musk responded by calling 350kW a "children's toy". ;)
He's really very... gentle... and fuzzy. We're becoming fast friends.
In case you're curious, it's rare that most supercharger stations not in big cities will ever need 4 chargers at this point in time, with the number of EVs on the road. It's one of the things that to me continually demonstrates how Tesla understands the market while others' don't. If you just build a single charger somewhere, and someone gets there, and it's taken or broken.... then what? Bad luck, right? But Tesla makes sure that there's always multiple chargers at every site (constantly monitored), on different circuits, to prevent this. And V3 chargers are going to be battery buffered.
Another example (IMHO) of why I like Tesla is the quality of their engineering. Check the difference between a Tesla supercharger connector (right) vs. a socket for a CHAdeMO connector that delivers less than 40% as much power (left). They're constantly thinking of human factors. Likewise, the reason why they went with such high powers in the first place while everyone else was ignoring it. Companies like Nissan, etc look at EVs like a hair shirt for hippies. "So what if it takes a long time to charge on trips, they'll wait for it so they can save the planet, and think it's fine because they save so much time when not on trips." Same reason that they underpower the motors in their cars. Tesla's goal isn't hippies; their goal is the world.
He's really very... gentle... and fuzzy. We're becoming fast friends.
You're the one who imposed the "no supercharging at the person's house" requirement
I think one of us changed subjects along the way, and the other didn't see that.
Otherwise, this was a helpful post.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1