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Bitcoin Foundation Boss Urges Cautious Investment (bbc.com)

The head of the Bitcoin Foundation, Llew Claasen, has urged people to invest "no more than they can afford" in the crypto-currency. From a report: He was speaking at the TEDGlobal conference in Tanzania about the potential for Bitcoin in Africa. Billions lack access to formal banking, but the uptake of mobile money means many are willing to embrace alternatives. Bitcoin had been adopted in Nigeria, South Africa and Kenya, he said. The digital currency had particular resonance in countries with volatile economies, he said. "It offers people a chance to protect their savings from government abuse of monetary policy. A lot of people in Zimbabwe are interested in it as an alternative financial system, but that is not an easy thing to do formally as we don't want to be perceived as wanting to disrupt economies," he told the BBC. The Washington-based Bitcoin Foundation is a non-profit organisation that promotes the use of Bitcoin around the world.

59 comments

  1. Note by war4peace · · Score: 2

    Bitcoin isn't any less volatile than said countries' volatile economies. While I certainly hope it's going to become very stable, I doubt it.

    --
    ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    1. Re:Note by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is stupidly volatile in the sense that the people that control the most money (exchanges and other wallets) are hacked a lot. I mean, A LOT . This means a massive amount of coins are in the hands of "criminals" and on the other side a massive amount of coins from normal people are "gone" which puts them off the whole thing. The effect this has is that the market tends to go up and down by an order of magnitude which again puts most normal people off (great for trading though).

    2. Re:Note by Howitzer86 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's not stable, it's inconvenient, and it's easy to steal. Sounds about right.

    3. Re:Note by GLMDesigns · · Score: 2

      Peoples accounts are hacked. Bitcoin is not.

      The fact that a bank or an exchange is robbed does not devalue the currency. Bitcoin, unlike any fiat currency, has not be counterfeited.

      Bitcoin is going up because people see it as a store of value, as a way of taking their money out of an unstable market (Venezuela, China are two prime examples). If BTC is ever adopted on a large scale it's value will be 100 times if not 1000 times as much as it is now.

      Personally I think there will be multiple currencies, each with it's own niche.

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    4. Re:Note by geekmux · · Score: 1

      Peoples accounts are hacked. Bitcoin is not. The fact that a bank or an exchange is robbed does not devalue the currency. Bitcoin, unlike any fiat currency, has not be counterfeited.

      And how exactly does any of this reduce the risk for using bitcoin?

      If banks were getting robbed A LOT, resulting in people losing their money, then using banks would be a considered a high risk. Victims could care less about the value of a dollar when all of their dollars are stolen. People also aren't investing in bitcoin for it's anti-counterfeiting crypto, which tends to be a moot point when sizeable exchanges are getting hacked.

    5. Re:Note by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      The answer is to not keep your BTC in an exchange for a long period of time.

      Use Case: You want to convert your fiat money into BTC (or another cryptocurrency)
      - Send fiat to exchange
      - Wait the 4 day hold
      - Convert to BTC
      - Send BTC to your wallet (don't keep it in the exchange).

      As time goes on, and more professional exchanges are created, thefts will become fewer. You can't compare the sophistication of Gemini with say Mt. Gox. Regardless Gemini and all the others do not have FDIC protection (and never will) hence you will NEED to send your BTC to your wallet in order to be safe.

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    6. Re:Note by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except in these coubtries peole are hacked...with machetes and bullets if they do not hand over what the government wants. Disagree with that statement? Then leftsplain it to the African refugee telling that exact story on Australian TV advert at the moment.

    7. Re:Note by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The fact that a bank or an exchange is robbed does not devalue the currency.

      Bitcoin has a hardcoded limit to the amount of coins that can circulate. As coins are lost or wind up in the hands of criminals, their value as a currency for legitimate purposes diminishes.

    8. Re:Note by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you remove some quantity from a supply of a fixed quantity, the value of the remaining quantity goes up, not down.

      So people who lose their wallet access are basically deflating the currency and the remaining supply is worth more if there's equal demand.

    9. Re:Note by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you remove some quantity from a supply of a fixed quantity, the value of the remaining quantity goes up, not down.

      that is only true where the quantity remaining hold a utility value, if the supply dries up significantly then people simply stop using it which causes the opposite, a massive downward spiral in price.

    10. Re:Note by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      Bitcoin has a hardcoded limit to the amount of coins that can circulate. As coins are lost or wind up in the hands of criminals, their value as a currency for legitimate purposes diminishes.

      And if criminals horde gold or US dollars how does that affect gold or the US dollar? It doesn't.

      BTC's hardcoded limit was to mimic gold where the amount of new gold found is dwarfed by the amount of gold held in reserve (and in circulation).

      Best figures I have are that gold reserves and in circulation are around 200,000 tons and the amount found each year is around 2500 tons.

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    11. Re:Note by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      that is only true where the quantity remaining hold a utility value, if the supply dries up significantly then people simply stop using it which causes the opposite, a massive downward spiral in price.

      Why would the utility value drop if supply dries up even by 10%.

      Right now BTC is divisible to 100,000,000 (a satoshi). It would be a trivial fork to allow subdivisions of a satoshi.

      So, imagine BTC = $1,000,000. In that case a satoshi would be worth a penny.

      Let's say that is too great a value for operations. (I would assume other coins would be handling minor transactions such as a cup of coffee.) As said earlier, it would be trivial to change the definition of a satoshi from 1/10^8 to 1/10^16

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    12. Re:Note by FlamingGuts · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Just like US Dollars.

  2. "we don't want to be perceived as wanting to disrupt economies" Who is this "we" that you speak of? Bitcoin had no central spokespeople.

    1. Re:We??? by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      Maybe Llew Claasen is Satoshi Nakamoto.

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    2. Re:We??? by Gonoff · · Score: 1

      "we don't want to be perceived as wanting to disrupt economies".

      He might not intend to do that but I am not wholly convinced that it would be a bad thing...

      --
      I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
  3. Too late by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    The head of the Bitcoin Foundation, Llew Claasen, has urged people to invest "no more than they can afford" in the crypto-currency.

    Damn. Now you tell me? I just invested 2.38 MILLION Dogecoins to buy a single Bitcoin!

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  4. errybody buy BitCoin now! by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

    Don't hesitate. Cash in your 401k and buy BitCoin. Ask your parents to give you your inheritance in advance and buy BitCoin. Get a second mortgage and buy BitCoin. Do it now and you will be rich beyond dreams of avarice.

    And please don't sell any until at least the close of business a week from Friday. KTHX

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:errybody buy BitCoin now! by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      Don't listen to him. I have a much better deal available.

      You've heard of Bitcoin, right? You know how expensive a Bitcoin is? It's now at USD$4600 for a single coin!

      You like dogs? Well, did you know there's a crypto-currency called Dogecoins? The mascot is a nice Shiba Inu dog! And here's my deal: unlike those expensive Bitcoins, my Dogecoins are really much cheaper! What if I told you that for a small investment of USD$1000 can give you 550 Dogecoins? Wouldn't you be interested? If you are, send me an email at totallynotascam@gmail.com

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    2. Re:errybody buy BitCoin now! by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      Don't listen to DontBeAMoran he's scamming you.

      I'll give you 1101 Dogecoins for your $1000.00 investment. That's two for each DogeCoin that scammer offered you plus one because I'm such a nice guy.

      Please email me at not_a_scam_like_the_other_guy@gmail.com

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  5. No More than You Can Afford TO LOSE by eepok · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I always get annoyed when investment-prodders say "Never invest more than you can afford." It's impossible to do so anyway. If i have $100, I can't invest $10,000 in anything. What they need to say is, "Don't invest more than they can afford to lose," but they don't want to because that would make the product they're selling seem like a bit of a gamble. Which it is.

    1. Re:No More than You Can Afford TO LOSE by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2

      You can borrow money to invest it. That practice was a contributor to the great depression and strict controls were put on it afterward. But you can buy bitcoin on your credit card, which is the same thing.

      If you've got $100 and you lose it you might have to go to the food bank this month. If you've got $100 and you lose $1000 you paid for with your credit card, you've got a problem that's at least a hundred times worse.

    2. Re:No More than You Can Afford TO LOSE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really, Bitcoin as a whole is putting out some very mixed signals here.

      On the one hand, it wants to be taken seriously as a currency. On the other hand, it's an investment. Uh...

      Sorry, you need to pick one. Gold became an investment only when it stopped being used as currency. If you can "spend" something, it's not an investment. Simple as.

    3. Re:No More than You Can Afford TO LOSE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If i have $100, I can't invest $10,000 in anything.

      Sure you can!

    4. Re:No More than You Can Afford TO LOSE by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      BTC is a currency AND can be used as a store of value (same as all currencies).

      As a store of value it can be considered an investment. It's an "investment" for those people trying to hedge against their currency collapsing (see Venezuela).

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    5. Re:No More than You Can Afford TO LOSE by gravewax · · Score: 1

      people borrow money from banks, families, credit cards etc to bet on sure fire ways that can't possibly go wrong to make money, it happens every day all over the world.

    6. Re:No More than You Can Afford TO LOSE by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      "$1000 divided by $100 equals a hundred times worse."

      Epic Pivot.

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    7. Re:No More than You Can Afford TO LOSE by mikael · · Score: 1

      Exchanging currency is a gamble too. Even stable currencies like the pound, dollar, euro and norwegian kronor can double or half relative to each other. Used to be £2 = 1$, now it is around £1 = $1.20. The pound and euro used to be £1 = 1.5 euros, now they are almost the same. The Kronor has bounced between £1 = 8 NOK and 12 NOK

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    8. Re:No More than You Can Afford TO LOSE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed, any "investing" is a risk, and should only be with what you can afford to lose.

      With that, I've only recently "invested" $900 in to crypto currencies a few months ago, hindsight is beautiful, if only I had of done it sooner or "invested" more, but it always comes simply back to the fact I didnt have money at the time that I could afford to lose.

      The housing market has done much better here in the last 3 years, I'm up $100k, but again I didnt get into it to make money, I got into it to own a home, with the reality I might be lucky if I break even by the time its paid off e.g. its gained enough value to offset the interest paid on the debt.

    9. Re:No More than You Can Afford TO LOSE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "If i have $100, I can't invest $10,000 in anything."
      If you think that this Math is bad, from the Article:

      "Billions lack access to formal banking, but the uptake of mobile money means many are willing to embrace alternatives."
      The Population of Africa now stands at 1.2 Billion. That's not Billions. Formal Banking in Africa is just fine, for those with something to actually Bank. Llew Claasen is just yet another deceitful lying South African Bitcoin Crook, now in charge of the scandal-ridden Bitcoin Foundation.

    10. Re:No More than You Can Afford TO LOSE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, but it seems you are. What they said was completely accurate.

    11. Re:No More than You Can Afford TO LOSE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Going from "I can't afford to eat today" to "I've had my possessions repossessed due to a debt I couldn't pay, and I still can't afford to eat today" is a lot more serious than just a numerical factor derived from $1000/$100.

    12. Re:No More than You Can Afford TO LOSE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How does one invest money then, if it's something you can spend?

    13. Re:No More than You Can Afford TO LOSE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Enjoy the higher property taxes.

    14. Re:No More than You Can Afford TO LOSE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BTC is a commodity not a currency. as a currency it is fucking awful as it fluxates worse than Zimbabwean Dollar. And it isn't a fucking hedge against a currency collapse, again it is way to unstable itself for that, it is a bet/gamble. When you are hedging you do it against a safe currency.

    15. Re:No More than You Can Afford TO LOSE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL they may fluxuate but that change in the USD vs the pound happened over a decade, that was a 35% change over 10 years, that rate of change is EXTREMELY stable, that same change can happen in a couple of days with bitcoin. hell it can happen in bitcoin in the time it takes you to drive to the shops and back to collect milk.

    16. Re:No More than You Can Afford TO LOSE by Gonoff · · Score: 1

      If i have $100, I can't invest $10,000 in anything

      Perhaps he is talking to banks? That is exactly what they do. For every $ they get, they invest many times. That is why, when banks fail, they do so big!

      --
      I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
    17. Re:No More than You Can Afford TO LOSE by Gonoff · · Score: 1

      It fluxates (sic) worse than Zimbabwean Dollar.

      Not at all. The Zimbabwe dollar looses value every day. The Bitcoin gains value every day.

      Hyper inflationary loss may be easier for some to understand but it is far worse than something that becomes more valuable every day.

      The only concern is "Will it last? I expect not. Not forever anyway. I wonder how long it will continue going up and what it will do when it finishes.

      --
      I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
    18. Re:No More than You Can Afford TO LOSE by Gonoff · · Score: 1

      Early last year, I put a little into bitcoin to see what would happen and sat back and watched. Yesterday, I took back my initial payment plus interest. It now owes me nothing and is still worth $700. I wish I had put in more.

      If it goes down the pan, I will have lost nothing. If it carries non at this rate or goes down, I will still only have a bit of a Bitcoin that cost me nothing.

      --
      I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
    19. Re:No More than You Can Afford TO LOSE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not at all. The Zimbabwe dollar looses value every day. The Bitcoin gains value every day.

      Both those statements are pure ignorance or blatant lies on your part. you can go do a search on both and then decide whether you are just a liar or a moron.

  6. Free infrastructure = rent seekers by HBI · · Score: 1

    Here are the rent seekers.

    Lesson: Don't do anything for free.

    --
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  7. Money laundering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    New means for politicians and leaders of 3rd world countriesto launder money undetected. Maybe not just corrupt countries, but a few leaders of 1sr world countries too. I think outcoume or repercussions of this digital currency to world economy has not yet been seen, could be good or it could be bad too.

    1. Re:Money laundering by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      Actually the blockchain would make it easier to catch theft of this kind. It would make it easier to see if a charity actually uses the money for its stated purpose or if it funnels the money to its Board of Directors through "overhead" costs.

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  8. Came here to say that... by gatfirls · · Score: 3, Informative

    Day Low 4,201.1899
    Day High 4,616.8999
    52 Week Low 571.6600
    52 Week High 4,616.8999

    I know some countries are *relatively* unstable when compared to Dollar/Euro/etc but compared to bitcoin they are relatively stable. They may take big hits on occasion and suffer unreasonable inflation but those are usually singular events or extend over months/years. With bitcoin your gas and grocery money could become just grocery money on the way from the bank to the grocery store.

    Not to mention all of the other issues surrounding bitcoin logistics in a 'developing economy'.

    1. Re:Came here to say that... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      If I am going to have a currency that is unstable, I would rather have Bitcoin, which tends to be unstable in an upward direction, than in any government fiat currencies, which tend to be unstable in a downward direction. Since its introduction in 1973, this is the number of years that the Nigerian naira has risen in value: 0.

    2. Re: Came here to say that... by KGIII · · Score: 1

      It's amazing to see how rapidly the price has risen. When BTC started, I mined 24 of them and promptly forgot about them. When the price hit $600, there was a story on this site and I donated them to EFF instead of realizing the asset and dealing with the tax issues. I don't regret donating them, but I do see that it would have been more valuable to have waited and donated the later. EFF doesn't really get the coins, as I understand it. They get the dollar value of the coins from a third party processor.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    3. Re:Came here to say that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that is absolute horseshit. You DO NOT want instability in either direction. It may be fine if you never have to pay bills or spend anything as your net worth grows rapidly, but think of things like your electricity bill, Are you going to be happy you signed up to pay 1 bitcoin a month when a year later it means you are now paying the equivalent of 5 grand a month in electricity bills? this is especially problematic with bills that are paid in arears. Worse still it discourages spending and investment as you get far better return by never buying or investing in anything and hence the job market collapses. instability in either direction is devastatingly bad for an economy.

    4. Re:Came here to say that... by RuffMasterD · · Score: 1

      For a bit of historical context, Zimbabwe had 79.6 billion percent inflation in November 2008. That was AFTER declaring inflation illegal and arresting a bunch of people for raising prices. They abandoned their currency completely and use US$ now, but I wouldn't blame Zimbabweans for being a bit skittish of government controlled currencies since then. Bitcoin would have been an attractive alternative if it was available at the time.

      --
      Human Rights, Article 12: Freedom from Interference with Privacy, Family, Home and Correspondence
  9. He forgot the most important part... by gatfirls · · Score: 1

    "Never invest more than you can afford."

      "To lose"

  10. Goate.cx is launching a coin now... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Goatse.cx is launching goatse cin apparently

  11. It offers nothing by Khyber · · Score: 0

    "It offers people a chance to protect their savings from government abuse of monetary policy"

    If the global economy fucks itself, what's your shitcoin going to buy?

    Not a goddamned thing.

    Investing in guns and ammunition is a better and smarter investment. That's how stupid fucking Bitcoin is, that implements of destruction are a better investment.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    1. Re:It offers nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Simple, buy guns with bitcoins after the local fiat goes into an inflation spiral.

    2. Re:It offers nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the local currency is in an inflation spiral they won't accept your bitcoins either, they will want a real commodity that they can trade with or a foreign currency. They would either switch to another currency (bitcoin isn't an option as it can't be used as a currency as the design flawes make that impossible as is) or they will want barter goods.

  12. Meanwhile... by VeryFluffyBunny · · Score: 1

    ...arms dealers urge their customers to be nicer to their neighbours, credit card companies urge shoppers to only buy what they can afford, and drug cartels recommend not letting recreational drug use become habitual.

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  13. Are these people still around? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They pretty much discredited themselves into complete oblivion a while back. Naïve of the bbc to even go and talk to them.

  14. Citations required by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Bitcoin had been adopted in Nigeria, South Africa and Kenya, he said."

    Really? I find that hard to believe. Let's assume that Bitcoin is a magical, completely scaleable protocol, able to handle an infinite number of transactions every second. (It isn't, and I'll get back to that, but anyway.) In order to be able to use it, you need computers, and you need those computers online to be able to transfer funds. (Unlike, say, cash, where you just hand over a piece of paper, or a metallic disc.) Kenya's electrical supply is rather unreliable. So is Nigeria's and South Africa's. I find it highly unlikely that a country would adopt a currency (whether or not Bitcoin qualifies is beside the point for this comment) that requires infrastructure and resources that they simply do not have.

    That's without even looking at the point that the Bitcoin network can handle, at most, seven transactions per second, under ideal conditions. Worldwide. In comparison, Paypal ran about 115 TPS in 2014; Visa, 56,000; and Western Union, 29.

    Bluntly: Bitcoin, as it stands, is a complete non starter - not even for a single country, not even if you assume that it will stay solely within that country. An interesting experiment, perhaps, but it quite literally cannot do the things that its proponents claim it can. Not without radically changing its underlying protocol - and even then, there are a whole slew of other problems inherent in its design that I don't see being fixed.

    1. Re:Citations required by ElizabethGreene · · Score: 1

      >> That's without even looking at the point that the Bitcoin network can handle, at most, seven transactions per second, under ideal conditions.

      This IS a huge issue, and one that needs to be fixed. Generating fixed sized blocks every 10 minutes was and is a major design flaw in the protocol. It doesn't fit with the scale required to meet the financial needs of 8 billion people.

      I'm hesitant to call 30 seconds an acceptable window for initial transaction confirmation. 10 minutes is a joke, and the hours it takes for full confirmation now isn't funny at all.