Slashdot Mirror
'No Fire Risk' With New Lithium Batteries (bbc.com)
Lithium-ion batteries that are resistant to exploding or catching fire have been developed by scientists. From a report: The devices produced sufficient energy for use in household electronics, but did not ignite -- even when punctured repeatedly with a nail. The batteries use a water-salt solution as their electrolyte, removing the risks carried by some non-aqueous commercial models. The research is published in the journal Joule. "In the past, if you wanted high energy, you would choose a non-aqueous lithium-ion battery, but you would have to compromise on safety. If you preferred safety, you could use an aqueous battery such as nickel/metal hydride, but you would have to settle for lower energy," said co-author Kang Xu, from the US Army Research Laboratory (ARL). "Now, we are showing that you can simultaneously have access to both high energy and high safety."
Or are the safeguards working against the product?
About three weeks back we had a report on a breakthrough that could result in rechargeable zinc-air batteries, built of cheap materials. Rechargeable zinc-air would trounce lithium-ion on energy density (for applications exposed to air, at least) because you don't have to carry the oxidizer around. Main detail to be worked out is cycle lifetime.
Now we have a breakthrough that could result in non fire-prone lithium-ion batteries - again if the (unstated) details work out. This could be a drop-in replacement, perhaps with a tweak of the charge control chip's parameters.
I wonder when, if, and which might make it to market.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
About three weeks back we had a report on a breakthrough that could result in rechargeable zinc-air batteries, built of cheap materials.
Forgot the link.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Every other week there is a pop sci article about tech that will never see the light of day. In the end 90% is pure bullshit as far as I can tell. If it werent wed be flying battery powered shuttles to the moon and back given how many of these pop sci articles get published.
In short ill believe it when I. Buying it on amazon. Till then it's pipe dreams,
what does this mean for me, my laptop and the mail gun I brought on board?
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
I don't even care about the dangers of lithium ion batteries and throw them away in the normal trash. I would dispose of them "properly", but apparently my city and the waste management around here don't give a shit because there is absolutely no accessible information as to where to dispose of them and waste management never picks up their phone.
>Main detail to be worked out is cycle lifetime. Yeah, that's kind of a big detail to work out.
Every three weeks we get a breakthrough in battery technology reported, but all we ever see are incremental improvements in the same technology we keep using.
I'm not holding my breath.
I wouldn't want to be the person that causes a garbage truck or a dumpster to catch fire. I dump all the lithium cells in the battery disposal bin when I hit the local office supply store. I do the same with waste oil and other stuff.
I'm sure the local trash guys don't give a care, but if someone lights up their ride, they definitely will be caring.
I wonder when, if, and which might make it to market.
It takes years to go from "we did it once or twice in a lab" to "commercial product is ready to ship". At best.
Engineering work takes time, especially when the product is targeting an established market.
---
According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
1. Weight: How many watt hours per kilogram?
2. Volume: How many cm^3 per watt hour?
3. Cycles: How many charge cycles until it drops to 80% of original capacity?
4. Safety: Will it catch fire or spew toxic fumes?
5. Volatility: Will it disintegrate if shaken?
Which of the above does the new battery severely underperform on? As far as I know it only beats current batteries in #4 and is "OK" on #1and #2.
I keep reading about how Scientists have developer a new cure for cancer, Scientists have developed a new type of battery, Scientists have discovered a way to make travel much efficient... I just picture all of these scientists living in the same house out of the Jetsons, and not sharing any of this amazing tech with the rest of us. "Sorry, you need to be a Scientist."
I dump all the lithium cells in the battery disposal bin when I hit the local office supply store. I do the same with waste oil and other stuff.
I wouldn't want to be the person that empties out your oil-soaked battery disposal bin.
Was working on some designs for a rechargeable sprinkler system to extinguish fires caused by these battery packs.
WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
If you preferred safety, you could use an aqueous battery such as nickel/metal hydride, but you would have to settle for lower energy,
-One of my NiMH batteries burned (Meijer Brand), hours after charging, while sitting alone on a table. I am lucky that it did not take the house with it. The local fire department received it for investigation.
-9V alkalines will close a circuit and burn if stored improperly.
-Lead acid batteries will explode if accidentally grounded by a tool while working on a car (hydrogen gas).
The only safe way to store any batteries is in a painted steel ammo box. The paint does not conduct and the steel contains the fire. That includes your cell phones and tablets at night. Also, keep your laptop batteries at 50% charge in the box when not travelling.
Or better than NiMH could just use LiFePO4 batteries...
With all the battery advances, it would be nice to see at least 3-4 types of batteries, with the chemistry optimal for each application:
1: Lead-acid battery replacements. Goal is for inexpensive technology to allow these to go below 50% SoC without permanent damage. Some research is done with graphite supercaps, to allow deeper discharge without damage, be as stated by another, I'll believe it once it hits Amazon.
2: Very high energy density. Cell phones are not getting any more thrifty with battery life, especially with the pressure to add GPU and other items, as well as the bloating of apps and other gewgaws to provide analytics to all the tons of companies sucking that data off the device.
3: A stable chemistry, so if the cell is punctured or breached, it doesn't cause an explosiion.
4: Long lived cells made for giving low amounts of power for years or decades.
5: Cells made to take extreme environments, be it radiation, cold in space, high pressures of deep sea exploration, etc.
What would be useful is lead-acid battery replacements, with chemistry that has a lot larger charge/discharge rate.
There are some 11+ different lithium chemistries, primary and rechargeable, all with different trade-offs, lower mass, cycle capability, thermal performance, price, charging complexity, etc.
Any chemistry will require massive development in manufacturing technology, not to mention marketing, and development of supporting techs like chargers etc. Our current products are well understood, and if manufactured with strict quality control and handled with care, you will rarely have a problem even with todays problem "children". Much of the technology invented is proprietary, and patent licensing is a major hurdle. China will likely be in the center of any mass-produced battery, and patent encumbered products will be the last choice.
Patents are clearly hurting us here. Critical technology should perhaps be purchased by citizen consortiums, and be put into the public domain, because citizens would pay for the corporate profits in any case.
The best chemistry may not be available for wide audience due to these problems.
Well then lucky you. We have no such place to dispose of batteries here. If a waste truck does catch on fire, the city is responsible because I already exhausted all options. Also, good luck proving who's battery caused the fire.
Isn't this the 800th time we've seen someone claiming this? Maybe stop giving this topic press until someone starts building a factory.
I once disassembled a battery pack of some early lithium-powered cellphone (probably a Motorola), and the cell container was a pretty strong metal (steel?) case that couldn't even be scratched with a pitchfork.
Applying 12v to it resulted in barely any bulging, only controlled venting after a while.
The thing wasn't thicker than any modern smartphone cell, so maybe they should just start making them great again.
Be sure to store unused batteries in fire-proof and explosion-proof storage bags.
With all the battery advances, it would be nice to see at least 3-4 types of batteries, with the chemistry optimal for each application:
We kinda have that already.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I'll put it in my Galaxy Note 7
It's still a fire, which destroys stuff and potentially humans. Maybe even humans you care about.
But if the battery is discharged the risk is negligible.
Meh, don't care, not my problem. Besides, it would be impossible for it to harm anyone. Metal dumpsters and metal trucks don't catch on fire that easily and if it did, it's not my fault because I did everything I possibly could.
What would actually be a danger to people I care about is if I held on to the batteries instead of throwing them out.
Nothing is perfect. There are no WaterPROOF phones, but WaterRESISTANT phones, it will be Fire RESISTANT not Fire PROOF. Title says "No Fire Risk" at all? Small or little fire risk.
most likely we will never ever see this battery technology, just as we have never seen the last about 2 million "revolutionary" battery techs that have been "discovered" since lithium ion batteries first hit the market... it is ALMOST as if SOMEONE thinks they STILL haven't earned enough money on current li-ion batteries!
Just like alternatives to diesel and gasoline powered cars and trucks!
If Elon had not started Tesla, then we never have had any serious alternatives to diesel and gasoline!
Hopefully Elon will start to buy some of the new baqttery techs that surface in the next couple of years, to avoid that they become thrown away by big coorporations like all the other ones most likely have!
Worst part is that a lot of those jokers now have patents for all kinds of battery tech that they can sue everyone to hell and back with if some of the new tech is too close to some of the "old" tech, that prolly never got to see the light of day
at some point we will likely run out of ways to do batteries in any way better than current li-ion
How is Hollywood supposed to film spectacular car chases in 20 years if everyone has a self driving car, that never crashes, and even if it somehow gets pushed over a cliff it just falls with a thud and doesn't explode into a fireball the size of a North Korean nuclear explosion. Movies will be very dull.
The problem I have with battery technology development is that it doesn't make it to the average consumer for years because one industry controls it for the first few years. Lithium Sulfur looks great. 2 to 4 times the energy density of Lipo. But I won't be able to buy packs for my quadcopter until the automotive industry is done using it.