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UN Aviation Agency To Call For Global Drone Registry (reuters.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the location-services dept.

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Reuters: The United Nations' aviation agency is backing the creation of a single global drone registry, as part of broader efforts to come up with common rules for flying and tracking unmanned aircraft. While the International Civil Aviation Organization cannot impose regulations on countries, ICAO has proposed formation of the registry during a Montreal symposium this month to make data accessible in real time, said Stephen Creamer, director of ICAO's air navigation bureau. The single registry would eschew multiple databases in favor of a one-stop-shop that would allow law enforcement to remotely identify and track unmanned aircraft, along with their operator and owner. It's not yet clear who would operate such a database, although ICAO could possibly fill that role. The proposal, however, could face push back from users, after hobbyists successfully challenged the creation of a U.S. drone registry by the Federal Aviation Administration in court earlier this year.

47 comments

  1. while they're at it by TimMD909 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Might as well register all guns, vehicles, and computers with a central, global agency. Add in PII, let Experian run it, and wait. Soon the world will be taught a myriad of lessons.

    1. Re:while they're at it by Strider- · · Score: 4, Informative

      Might as well register all guns, vehicles, and computers with a central, global agency.

      I'm not going to touch your comments about firearms or computers, but in terms of vehicles, there are a number of registries that already exist and work reasonably effectively.

      The most obvious one, in this case, is aircraft registration. All civil, manned aircraft (not quite sure about ultralights etc...) all have a nationally assigned registration. The registration number must be shown in a prominent location on the aircraft, and can be used by pretty much anyone to look up the ownership of the aircraft.

      Another example is in the maritime world. Nearly all vessels beyond a canoe or row boat now carry a VHF radio with DSC capabilities. This includes an MMSI (Maritime Mobile Service Identifier) which is a globally unique registration number for that vessel/owner. The various national authorities collect that data, and maintain it, and then upload it into the global systems. No matter where a person goes in the world, if they punch the distress button, the responsible rescue center is able to retrieve vessel information, contact information, and other bits that are useful as part of a rescue situation. In the commercial world, every commercial vessel is assigned an IMO number that stays with a ship from when it comes off the ways until it ends its service at a ship breaker. With it, you can retrieve the full history of that ship... Names, flags, ownership.

      So, does registering your 2lb drone that can carry an itty bitty camera, make sense? no, it doesn't. But does a standardized way of handling registration for larger autonomous aircraft (Amazon's drones, etc...) make sense? I think so. The trick is finding an appropriate threshold.

      --
      ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    2. Re:while they're at it by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Cool, so if my little drone catches the Jet Stream and ends up in Russia, they'll be sure to rescue it. Makes me all warm and fuzzy.

      Makes sense for vehicles that can traverse the globe. For local things, not so much.

      Do we need a global license plate database for cars? Even Amazon's big boy drones aren't likely to be used outside the country they took off from. Military and globe spanning drones? Well sure, but good luck with that.

      Anything big enough to bother with should be assigned a aircraft registry number and let the current systems handle it.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    3. Re:while they're at it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All civil, manned aircraft (not quite sure about ultralights etc...) all have a nationally assigned registration

      But that's a national registry, not "a single global [aircraft] registry", right?

      Why should drones be registered globally, when manned aircraft aren't?

    4. Re: while they're at it by the_bard17 · · Score: 1

      New York State can't get most folk to register their "assault weapons": https://hudsonvalleyone.com/20...

      I wish the U.N. lots of luck. Ain't likely to fly here in Upstate (Look Ma, I made a pun!)

    5. Re:while they're at it by argStyopa · · Score: 1

      Your own examples show that national registration programs work just fine.

      For small vehicles that aren't commonly engaged in international commerce, that sounds fine.

      So no, you pretty much proved why a U.N. run registry is a dumb idea. Is that what you intended?

      --
      -Styopa
    6. Re:while they're at it by Kjella · · Score: 0

      Another example is in the maritime world. Nearly all vessels beyond a canoe or row boat now carry a VHF radio with DSC capabilities. This includes an MMSI (Maritime Mobile Service Identifier) which is a globally unique registration number for that vessel/owner.

      Lolwut? I checked here in Norway and even though all commercial craft are required to have it I found an old article saying 90% of private boats don't have VHF radio. With the spread of cell phones and towers it's probably even less today. If anything it's a counter-example that registering large ships is fine but trying to register all boats would be completely ridiculous.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    7. Re:while they're at it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think that's a fair comparison. In 10 years you'll have drones hovering in the room, nearly silent, providing you with a video conference and/or projection. They will be social media devices and carried everywhere like phones.

    8. Re:while they're at it by Strider- · · Score: 2

      Lolwut? I checked here in Norway and even though all commercial craft are required to have it I found an old article saying 90% of private boats don't have VHF radio. With the spread of cell phones and towers it's probably even less today. If anything it's a counter-example that registering large ships is fine but trying to register all boats would be completely ridiculous.

      I've never encountered a vessel beyond a typical open fishing boat that didn't have a Marine VHF. You'd be considered to be radically unsafe to go out without one. A cell phone is fine, but doesn't work out at sea, also a cell phone doesn't summon all the other boaters around you, who are the ones best able to rescue you should shit go wrong.

      Further, Cell phones don't allow you to monitor VTS when navigating through a busy port, nor do they allow you to call for bridge raises, or other things that are required to conduct safe navigation of a recreational vessel. They're a great adjunct, but they do not replace VHF.

      --
      ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    9. Re:while they're at it by Strider- · · Score: 1

      Your own examples show that national registration programs work just fine.

      Well, yes and no. The international agreements set out standards for these registries, and the interchange of data between them. The national authorities collect and maintain the data, and make it available to international partners, under the agreements and treaties organized through the organizations.

      --
      ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    10. Re:while they're at it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, does registering your 2lb drone that can carry an itty bitty camera, make sense? no, it doesn't. But does a standardized way of handling registration for larger autonomous aircraft (Amazon's drones, etc...) make sense? I think so. The trick is finding an appropriate threshold.

      I work with drones in three jurisdictions, UAVs that are for this sort of use are already equipped with ADS-B transponders and are thus already assigned a ICAO 24-bit code and registered with relevant civil aviation authority like any other aircraft.

    11. Re:while they're at it by Agripa · · Score: 1

      Driver's License? For what? Disk drives?

    12. Re:while they're at it by dougmc · · Score: 1

      All civil, manned aircraft (not quite sure about ultralights etc...) all have a nationally assigned registration.

      As you've guessed, ultralights do not require registration in the US and in fact the FAA doesn't seem consider them to be aircraft, but they've made it clear that unmanned aircraft are aircraft, no matter their size. ... which is kind of odd. I can take an ultralight and add an R/C receiver and servos and such to control it (basically turning it into a big R/C plane), and the FAA considers it to be an aircraft, but if somebody gets in it and flies it directly, it's not? And if it weighs more than 55 lbs, the FAA regulates it more heavily if it's R/C controlled than if it's controlled by a person in it.

  2. Just what we've always needed by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sure, the nice folks in France really need to know that I have a Phantom 3 here in Alaska. With that range of 2 km, I'm sure to be of interest to lots of global players. That's perfectly sensible and really justifies an enormous, poorly secured database that will probably be run over Lotus Notes.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    1. Re:Just what we've always needed by jwhyche · · Score: 2

      That is a nice looking drone. Good price too. Someone in my apartment complex has been flying that model around.

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    2. Re:Just what we've always needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      all fun and games until we end up with a shodan for insecure drones. the black mirror episode writes itself: people in seedy darknet chat rooms streaming renegade drones out for blood.

  3. This is like a global calculator registry by Hadlock · · Score: 1

    Except that drones are far easier to assemble than a calculator these days.
     
    People are already building drones that can lift a human in their back yard, hopefully this is only for dones with a lift capacity of > 10 kilos or something.

    --
    moox. for a new generation.
    1. Re:This is like a global calculator registry by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      hopefully this is only for dones with a lift capacity of > 10 kilos or something.

      In America, the cut off for registration is 250 gm total weight, even with a lift capacity of 0 gm.

  4. They Wish... by pubwvj · · Score: 1

    They wish they had this for guns so they're requiring it for everything else.

    But, registries and laws don't stop terrorists and other bad guys from doing their bad acts. Only good folk obey the laws and even they get caught up in the snarls.

    1. Re:They Wish... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >terrorists
      >bad guys

      Pick one.

    2. Re:They Wish... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      But, registries and laws don't stop terrorists and other bad guys from doing their bad acts.

      Actually, they do. When I received my Mavic Pro, I had to register it on-line and provide a trackable cell number before it would fly. A smart and skilled terrorist might be able to work around that, but most terrorists aren't very smart.

    3. Re:They Wish... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I had to register it on-line and provide a trackable cell number before it would fly. "

      So you bought a sim-card on eBay for 1 buck?

    4. Re:They Wish... by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      But, registries and laws don't stop terrorists and other bad guys from doing their bad acts.

      Actually, they do.

      The laws against driving into a crowd of people did really well stopping the guy who drove into the crowd of people in Charlottesville with his registered vehicle, right?

      When I received my Mavic Pro, I had to register it on-line and provide a trackable cell number before it would fly.

      Terrorists have no idea how to buy a burner cell phone, or make up a realistic looking phone number, or just buy a different model. (The Mavic Pro is cute, but doesn't have a significant load capacity so is probably not going to be the UAS of choice anyway.) Not sure what you mean by "trackable", since a cell phone that has no battery in it can have a valid number but not be trackable by anyone. Even if you have to be trackable for just the couple of minutes that DJI needs to call you (?) on that phone (and can tell the difference between calling you on a cell phone and a landline), remove the battery and you're no longer trackable.

      but most terrorists aren't very smart.

      One per cell. That's all it takes. And it's not like the barriers are all that high to start with.

      The reason this database is stupid is not because to won't stop anyone from doing stupid or illegal things, even though that is true. It's stupid because we already have history of seeing such things fail miserably. Yes, the database of aircraft registrations works, but that's because there aren't that many of them and they are pretty big. They're also typically operated out of places where there are other pilots who can/will rat out a violator. (Private airstrips don't have such people, and who knows how many aircraft are not registered that fly out of those?)

      It's amazing to read some of the NTSB accident reports and see things like the pilot was five years out of currency with his BFR, had no medical, and the aircraft hadn't had an annual for ten years. Even with all of the registrations and laws, it still happens.

      The FCC realized the problems of registering cheap, small things when it tried demanding that CB radio users get a CB radio license. They did that for a few years and then gave up. But they didn't give up requiring that commercial TV stations have licenses. That's kinda a good analogy to the difference between a 747 or even a C172 and a Mavic.

    5. Re:They Wish... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      a cell phone that has no battery in it can have a valid number but not be trackable by anyone.

      The drone has to be connected to a working cellphone to initialize. You can't do that without a battery.

    6. Re:They Wish... by blindseer · · Score: 1

      They wish they had this for guns so they're requiring it for everything else.

      No they don't. Russia and China make all kinds of guns to sell to little tyrants all over the world. These tin pot dictators got tired of filing off the serial numbers when they got the guns so they saved them the trouble by not putting them on in the first place. What they want is for EVERYONE ELSE to register their guns. That makes confiscation so much easier.

      Government registration serves no purpose but confiscation. Criminals don't register their guns. They also don't register their cars, airplanes, boats, cell phones, and they also won't register their drones.

      We've seen drug cartels build million dollar submarines to smuggle illegal drugs into the USA. We've seen people manufacture machine guns in caves with machines powered by people on stationary bicycles. Do they actually think that people can't just build their own drones from spare parts and those same pedal powered machines?

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    7. Re:They Wish... by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      The drone has to be connected to a working cellphone to initialize. You can't do that without a battery.

      That makes no sense at all. The drone talks to an app that run on Android (or iOS), and Android (or iOS) runs on a lot of things that don't have a "working cellphone", much less a cellphone number of any kind. You don't even need to have an internet connection.

      And, of course, if you put the phone into airplane mode, it isn't being tracked, but it is "working", for a sufficient enough purpose for the DJI device.

  5. Make it a trade by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'll register globally in exchange for the right to fly globally, without having to secure additional clearances alongside my visa.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  6. Small problem... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    By which I mean, its a small problem. Most drones are simply too small to carry registry numbers large enough to be visible with the un-aided eye, or even with decent binoculars. The most popular drones in use for aerial photography are actually getting smaller in fact, the DJI Mavick Pro is smaller than the Phantom series.

    They could try to pass such a law but its nothing more than an extra charge to tack on to an arrest. You can build a drone from parts capable of the same things a commercially available drone does, and have no body cowling at all if you feel like it. And since someone is going to say "transponders!" well no, hobbyist-built won't have one, and pros will complain about the added battery drain shortening already short flight times.

  7. LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Good luck. The UN can hardly get a single country to so something, how is it going to get everybody on board?

  8. Single global whatever by tomhath · · Score: 1

    The United Nations...is backing the creation of a single global...

    No chance of the UN getting a program like this off the ground. And if they did they'd need several billion dollars to fund it.

    1. Re:Single global whatever by Strider- · · Score: 1

      No chance of the UN getting a program like this off the ground. And if they did they'd need several billion dollars to fund it.

      The ICAO already manages the global manned aircraft registry, with appropriate standardization and requirements for national regulators, it works quite well.

      The IMO manages a standardized way of dealing with ship registrations, globally. There's also a global registry of MMSI data as part of the SOLAS treaty, which I think is also administered through the IMO.

      --
      ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    2. Re:Single global whatever by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      "it works quite well."

      For a few thousand aircraft. Vs a few billion drones.

  9. Build From Junk by brian.stinar · · Score: 1

    I'm pretty sure I could build a drone from junk, or otherwise not-registered parts. Just like I could 3D print a (crappy) gun to avoid gun control legislation.

    I think that governments underestimate the ability of nerds to useless turn junk into somewhat less-useless junk.

    The article did mention that this registration would be a voluntary (for now) registration, which the U.N. would have no force to enforce on it's member states. If it actually worked out that way, great. Register your drone if you want to. Then, officials will know where know when registration becomes confiscation.

    1. Re:Build From Junk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been building "drones" out of balsawood and tissue since the second grade. Guillow's Lancer.

  10. Nnnh. Ine losing my chopter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    fh

  11. Simple enough by bobstreo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Either build your own throwaway drone (printing, purchasing parts with cash.

    Or register it to someone you hate before you do anything iillegal with it.

    Or both.

  12. Oh good, we will be made safe! by TiggertheMad · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I sure hope they get all the alphabet soup agencies to register their black ops stealthy drones armed with laser guide munitions that are flying illegal off book kill missions over failed states.

    Because, honestly those are the only ones worth worrying about. Who even gives a fuck about the retired guy who flys his 24" p-51 replica every Saturday at the local municipal soccer field? Amateur enthusiasts aren't really a problem. I'm not worried about actors like Amazon flying drones, they are going to be very safe about them because they don't want to get sued. Its just cops and military I worry about and they aren't going to register shit.

    --

    HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
    1. Re:Oh good, we will be made safe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I sure hope they get all the alphabet soup agencies to register their black ops stealthy drones armed with laser guide munitions that are flying illegal off book kill missions over failed states.

      Planespotters helped to discover the CIA's black site program:

      * https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/dec/10/usa.terrorism1
      * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendition_aircraft

  13. Good luck with that.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well good luck getting people to submit to that. At the very least, I can pretty much guarantee, Russia, China, and the US won't play along.

  14. I'm sure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Predator drones will be included in this database! That way citizens in Yemen can look up the address of the operator who illegally killed their family member in a country we are not even at war with. Also I'm sure all the "private" companies employed by US military and CIA to get around pesky international law will register their drones as well just like all private entities would have to.

  15. Three words by gabrieltss · · Score: 1

    FUCK the UN! They have NO authority in the US.

    --
    The Truth is a Virus!!!
  16. Thankfully by sexconker · · Score: 1

    Thankfully, Trump isn't a UN cuck.

  17. A plan so stupid only the UN could think of it. by Noishkel · · Score: 1

    We already have an entire black market industry just in making copycat firearms in parts of South America, not to mention the repurposing of commercial electronics for use in explosive armed ISIS drones. The idea of that kind of top down regulation of this technology is just flat out impossible at this point. You would have to try to register every single screw, nut, wire, and electronic component being produce on Earth to even remotely try and do this. Because we already have plenty of examples of completely home made quadrocopters being used to drop contraband into US prison. And those are some of the most secure places on the planet.

  18. Make me by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 1

    This FTFA is all you need to know about this latest bit of UN feel-good tripe:

    While the International Civil Aviation Organization cannot impose regulations on countries . . .

    Absolutely nothing to see here, folks -- move on.

  19. I build my own, from scratch by OnceWas · · Score: 1

    What's a drone? I build all kinds flying things. I build drones. I build planes.

    I have built a plane that can hover. Is that a drone?

    --
    Laugh while you can, monkey-boy.
  20. Who cares what the UN wants? by blindseer · · Score: 1

    The UN is dominated by a bunch of dictatorships and tyrannies. Their human rights council has as members China, Saudi Arabia, Cuba, and Venezuela. They have a resolution against "defamation of religion" which is really just a restriction on people to speak freely. They talk about the problems of climate change but all they have for solutions is having the USA give them more money. In front of their headquarters is a sculpture of a revolver with a twisted up barrel, and yet these offices are in a nation with the highest per capita gun ownership in the world.

    The UN seems to hold so many ideals counter to the USA and yet they come here so they can speak freely on how much evil the USA has done. If they don't like us then they can leave. In fact they can kick the USA out of the UN. We know they won't even try though.

    They need the USA. The USA provides a vast majority of their funds. If the UN headquarters were in just about any other nation of the world it would be bombed daily. The UN needs the USA, the USA doesn't need the UN.

    Now the UN wants drones to be registered with them? Fuck them. This is the demand of a bunch of thugs in government afraid of their own people. If this demand comes from the UN then it gives them a veil of righteousness to hide behind. The thugs in government can say *THEY* didn't demand this, the rest of the world wants it. After that they can register the drones, because it's the "right" thing to do.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  21. Freedom? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why no, there is no freedom anywhere in the world. Not here in the USA with their constitution-free zone near the ocean and the borders; mandatory checkpoints on the roads; fascist police states in the airports, football stadiums, trains, baseball fields, courthouses, and television studios; and mass surveillance of everything you do, say, and access and everywhere you go. There's certainly isn't any freedom with their forced registrations of your stuff, registrations that you have to pay for. All of this corruption, oppression, and tyranny are going on right now regardless of what the Constitution says.

    There probably isn't any freedom for people in any other country, either. Perhaps there was in Hong Kong for a while but then Great Britain gave it to China, so whatever freedom it had is gone now.

    The sad thing is most people don't even realize what they've given up for a false sense of security and a welfare check. I better convince myself that I love Big Brother before they come for me and kill me.