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Illinois Tests A Blockchain-Based Birth Registry/ID System (illinoisblockchain.tech)

An anonymous reader quotes Government Technology: The state of Illinois, which has six blockchain pilots underway, will partner with Utah-based Evernym for a birth registry pilot meant to individualize and secure identities... The endeavor, one of six distinct blockchain explorations Illinois began last summer with a working group, is expected to utilize the Sovrin Foundation's publicly available distributed identity ledger and expand upon accomplishments of the W3C Verifiable Claims Task Force, the state said... Recognizing that identity -- and, now, digital identity -- begin at birth, the state will explore using these technologies to create "a secure 'self-sovereign' identity for Illinois citizens during the birth registration process," it said in the announcement.
More from the Illinois Blockchain Initiative site: Self-sovereign identity refers to a digital identity that remains entirely under the individual's control. A self-sovereign identity can be efficiently and securely validated by entities who require it, free from reliance on a centralized repository. Jennifer O'Rourke, Blockchain Business Liaison for the Illinois Blockchain Initiative commented, "To structurally address the many issues surrounding digital identity, we felt it was important to develop a framework that examines identity from its inception at child birth... Identity is not only foundational to nearly every government service, but is the basis for trust and legitimacy in the public sector."

In the proposed framework, government agencies will verify birth registration information and then cryptographically sign identity attributes such as legal name, date of birth, sex or blood type, creating what are called "verifiable claims" or attributes. Permission to view or share each of these government-verified claims is stored on the tamper-proof distributed ledger protocol in the form of a decentralized identifier... This minimizes the need for entities to establish, maintain and rely upon their own proprietary databases of identity information.

Evernym's "Chief Trust Officer" sees the program as "a major contribution to the larger effort of solving the online identity problem."

151 comments

  1. Without having read the article by dougTheRug · · Score: 1

    Wow, what an incredibly good idea. It seems to me like this is exactly what block chain does best.

    1. Re:Without having read the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      until the tech is developed to turn blockchains into wet noodles. and that time is coming a lot sooner than you might think.

    2. Re:Without having read the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Without having read the article, I can tell you that someone's definitely going to name their kid Robert'); DROP TABLE Students;-- or similar if this goes anywhere.

      And when that happens, we'll all be here to laugh at their dumb asses for riding the blockchain bandwagon.
      IMO blockchain is a solution in search of a problem.

    3. Re:Without having read the article by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually it's unlikely to happen anytime soon. Why? Because it would be INCREDIBLY profitable if you could do it. You think there aren't already thousands of highly trained and motivated security gurus working day and night trying to crack that? If you can do that, all of the bitcoins in the world could be yours!

      This is how you find a secure technology for your application. Find one where cracking it would be insanely profitable and such a hack would instantly be noticed. If it's still secure after a few years, it probably is.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:Without having read the article by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 5, Funny

      And because it will take an increasing amount of sex to mine each new baby, the population of Illinois will be algorithmically limited. Budget problem solved!

    5. Re:Without having read the article by GrumpySteen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "If lots of people are working on something and it isn't done yet, it must be impossible."

      And that's why SHA-1 is still considered completely secure? I mean, it was introduced in 1995 and nobody had found a weakness in it by 2004. 9 years without being cracked clearly means it's unbreakable, right?

      And distributed blockchain has been around since 2008. 9 years without being cracked. Clearly it will never be cracked, right?

    6. Re:Without having read the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And how do you know that the three letter agencies, backed by billions of your taxpayer dollars, already do not have it cracked? Acres and acres of servers, thousands of mathematicians, and the amorality to turn it against whomever they so choose.

    7. Re:Without having read the article by MangoCats · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wow, what an incredibly boring application.

      Who is going to validate the block chain? What is their incentive? How are we going to trust it any better than we currently trust the state department of records? What exactly are we gaining by this?

    8. Re:Without having read the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Illinois has a tendency to implement technical solutions that don't do the thing they're supposed to. Sometimes they lose transactions, sometimes they're just not capable of working with or producing the information we need. Of course, the governor has to score political points for his "vision," so any agency that tries to point out how broken the new systems are is immediately told to STFU and not given so much as a roll of duct tape.

      This is going to be a slow motion tragedy for the taxpayers, just like every other shiny new piece of tech we overpay for.

    9. Re:Without having read the article by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      Stop that. Using blockchain to maintain your 'digital identity' only requires that the blockchain be *functional* for perhaps 110+ years, though if you need historical or archival data past death the required timeframe is essentially infinite.

      That can;t be so hard for this remarkable, unassailable tech, can it? Besides, you could always reconstruct it...

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    10. Re: Without having read the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well, they certainly already have my SSN. So does everyone else. I'll take the off chance that some basement autist will hose block chain tech accidentally over the current situation.

    11. Re:Without having read the article by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      Since the second virtue of blockchain is anonymity (IOW security by obfuscation), and we know that is merely a question of applying sufficient resources to discern the trail of transactions, it's only a matter of time before a specific scheme is understood and decoded sufficiently to subvert security and pwn

      As with all encryption, success is measured by that time, be it scale (centuries) or absolutes (6 years to decrypt my digital wallet when it's being replaced every 3-5).

      So alas, blockchain is just another security puzzle. A much better one? Ask that in 20 years. Money is supposed to last longer than that.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    12. Re:Without having read the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm pretty sure the good folks of Chicago already know about the loophole, so you might end up with a worse budget problem.

      Disclaimer: Totally NSFW lyrics!

      p.s. You'll recognize one of the girls as the ukulele girl from Scrubs.

    13. Re: Without having read the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shhh. Don't speak to loudly otherwise your "private key" will be leaked, and you will cease to exist.

    14. Re:Without having read the article by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      What would you gain by demonstrating a hash collision in SHA-1? You'd present it at Black Hat. Big whoop. A bunch of security researchers got to say "Finally! Someone proved that we're right!" and nobody else gave even half a shit about it.

      Net result? Probably close to zero, more probably negative when you count how much time you had to invest to finally find a ITW usable hash collision.

      We are talking about something that would IMMEDIATELY make you rich beyond what normal people (i.e. any security researcher) could dream of.

      You might see the difference in motivation here.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    15. Re:Without having read the article by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      If they had it, they could easily use it. The fact that they're not using it kinda points towards them not having it.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    16. Re:Without having read the article by FormOfActionBanana · · Score: 1

      There has already been a hash collision demonstrated.
      What you get from a SHA-1 collision, in a blockchain ecosystem based on SHA-1, is that you can fake votes to make an illegitimate transaction legitimate.

      --
      Take off every 'sig' !!
    17. Re:Without having read the article by FormOfActionBanana · · Score: 2

      No longer have to rely on The State to believe who the list of people is. I think that is huge.

      --
      Take off every 'sig' !!
    18. Re:Without having read the article by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Anyone still using SHA-1 for signing? Get out of the system while you can!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    19. Re:Without having read the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sometimes things aren't done because the technology to do the things doesn't actually exist yet. Caveman Ogg probably had a really tuff time flying off a two hundred foot cliff (at least more than once) but it didn't mean that it couldn't be done.
      Occasionally someone has an "ah-ha" moment and the probability switch flips from "impossible" to "trivial" in a moment.

    20. Re: Without having read the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What?

    21. Re:Without having read the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great, now someone's going to start dumping Viagra into the statewide water supply...now that'll be a true life hack. -PCP

    22. Re:Without having read the article by F.Ultra · · Score: 1

      No longer having to rely on the state to believe the records that you can verify only due to it's records being signed by the very same state? Looks to me like you gain nothing from this.

    23. Re:Without having read the article by FormOfActionBanana · · Score: 1

      Doesn't Bitcoin use SHA1 hashes? That's the whole house of cards waiting to fall.

      --
      Take off every 'sig' !!
    24. Re: Without having read the article by FormOfActionBanana · · Score: 1

      It's not boring.

      --
      Take off every 'sig' !!
    25. Re:Without having read the article by FormOfActionBanana · · Score: 1

      OH. Well if that's the case, then yes it is a worthless endeavor. I just figured the new births would be voted on by peers who knew of the event and trusted the signature of the parents.

      --
      Take off every 'sig' !!
    26. Re:Without having read the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and who exactly do you think is maintaining this blockchain with the power to regenerate it at will? this doesn't in anyway remove the reliance on the state.

    27. Re: Without having read the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Regenerating it doesn't take away the old one, which would be in the hands of the public.

    28. Re:Without having read the article by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Really?

      I didn't care too much about it until now, but it suddenly got interesting...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    29. Re:Without having read the article by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      "We are talking about something that would IMMEDIATELY make you rich "

      Doesn't that assume that the value of BITCOINS wouldn't immediately go to zero? Wouldn't they?

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    30. Re:Without having read the article by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      If they had it, they could easily use it. The fact that they're not using it kinda points towards them not having it.

      How do you know they're not? Also, having a weapon doesn't mean you need to use it immediately. Especially if it's one that you'll only get a chance or two to use. Just like when Enigma was broken...how many folks knew, certainly not the public. And, every caution was taken to make sure that the enemy didn't know that it was broken.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    31. Re:Without having read the article by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      Well worth the viewing. These two have a series of great little songs, including one with Weird Al.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    32. Re:Without having read the article by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I'm fairly sure there would still be enough time to simply dump them onto the market. You probably won't get 5k a bitcoin, but who cares if you have millions?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  2. How do Dems/The Left by oldgraybeard · · Score: 0, Troll

    Give Illegals the right to vote and government benefits if their identities can be verified? This is never going to happen!

    1. Re:How do Dems/The Left by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously?

      You might want to actually go outside into the real world, where Obama is the most recent of multiple Dem leaders to support a National ID, which has consistently been blocked by conservatives (you know, the whole 'the UN is coming to get you' crowd)

      E.g.: https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/immigration/item/20531-congress-pushes-obama-backed-national-biometric-id-for-americans

      What Dems/ the Left do not support is creating laws requiring IDs to vote, paired with closing DMV offices or making it more difficult to obtain. There is very little opposition on the left to a national ID that is free, easy to obtain, and highly verifiable and reliable.

    2. Re:How do Dems/The Left by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Exactly the opposite. Someone will get ahold of the state's key and suddenly millions of Guatemalans will be us citizens born in Illinois and eligible to vote.

    3. Re:How do Dems/The Left by oldgraybeard · · Score: 1

      lol really! so saying vested interest do not want to verifying identity makes me a troll! OK ;) Right out of the PC correct playbook.

    4. Re:How do Dems/The Left by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hmm... last time I checked the side of The Party pushing for national ID was the democrats and the republican side was strictly opposing it.

      Did something change since the prez election?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:How do Dems/The Left by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Did something change since the prez election?

      Everything changes after presidential elections; good becomes bad and bad becomes good, depending on your pov. You must be new here.

    6. Re:How do Dems/The Left by peragrin · · Score: 1, Troll

      The party pushing national of is tepunlicans and has been for 12+ years now. Or did you forget that realID is a republican plan? And it is liberal states that refused for most of the last 12 years to implement it. Also it is republican states that want to prove identity to vote. Forget that all states make you register to vote months in advance anyways.

      Republicans are all for a religious police state. As long as they are the ones In Charge of the religion and police. Believing otherwise is hypocritical. Then again republican are hypocritical.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    7. Re:How do Dems/The Left by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      ... Someone will get ahold of the state's key and suddenly millions of Guatemalans will be us citizens born in Illinois and eligible to vote.

      Thats the exact thing which would be very very hard to forge even for someone with write access, because they would have to insert those birth records at the right point in the timeline of the chain and then recalculate the resulting hash from every db transaction after that, and then get a bunch of other independent chain operators to all agree that all those entries being inserted now, from 20-50 years ago are legitimate.

    8. Re:How do Dems/The Left by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Problem is the implementation of ID laws. After experiencing how the right wing fucked up our voting ID requirements here in Canada, I'm a lot less pro voters ID.
      This blockchain idea sounds just as easy to fuck with, just make sure the internet is slow in various parts of town on voting day. Imagine the lineups as each voter waits for the blockchain to be verified over dial-up speeds.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    9. Re:How do Dems/The Left by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Or did you forget that realID is a republican plan? And it is liberal states that refused for most of the last 12 years to implement it.

      I'd hardly call Louisiana a "liberal" state.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    10. Re:How do Dems/The Left by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or did you forget that realID is a republican plan? And it is liberal states that refused for most of the last 12 years to implement it.

      I'd hardly call Louisiana a "liberal" state.

      lol. There is no checkbox that can describe Lousiana.

    11. Re:How do Dems/The Left by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      It's really the tin-foil-hat crowd portion f the right that believes the government is out to get them, and it's not a big portion.

      So, that said, if it were passed, would the left agree to requiring ID to vote? Seems like a possibility for compromise.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    12. Re:How do Dems/The Left by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      "Republicans are all for a religious police state"

      You might want to exit your echo chamber and actually talk to some before stating opinions that are clearly bullshit.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
  3. Trust issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I should a "Chief Trust Officer" of a US government would have better things to do than dabble in "blockchain".

    Nevermind that for anything but currency a blockchain is nigh useless, because who runs the miners and what do they get for their efforts? It's exactly that bit that's the "magic" that binds it all together, and exactly that bit that's hardest to fill in at acceptable cost in anything but a digital currency.

    That's a big problem, but I think the trust issues with the US government are way bigger. Even local ones, since if nothing else the general untrustworthyness of the federal government reflects very badly indeed on any local government.

    1. Re:Trust issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Anytime that I see a company based out of Utah having anything to do with recording information from Birth of just about anybody, I have to check and...
      Yup, "Evernym" is run by a bunch of nutty Mormon Missionaries. It took me all of a minute to find this out; they are hardly secretive about it.
      Be very very Afraid...
      Mormons are not to be trusted in these matters.

    2. Re: Trust issues by MattKeith · · Score: 2

      There are other systems besides proof of work (mining) which aren't so intensive. Proof of stake and proof of Authority don't require mining. I don't know enough about them to go over the pros and cons, but proof of stake is suitable for use on mobile phones. There are block chain voting initiatives using it.

    3. Re: Trust issues by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 2

      Why? Mormons are obsessed about lineage. Lineage is a big deal in their dogma.

      But how does that 'corrupt' this technology? People who are automobile enthusiasts often are involved with developing new automotive technology. People who are bicycle enthusiasts often are involved with developing new bike technology. This is nothing different.

      Are you trying to stir up anti-Mormon sentiments? Is that the thrust of your comment? Because people do that to be anti-Muslim or anti-semetic, too.

    4. Re: Trust issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I mentioned nothing about corruption. This is right from Mormon.org:
      "Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints use family history records to perform sacred temple ordinances, such as eternal marriages and sealings of children to parents, for their kindred dead if these deceased family members were unable to perform the earthly rites themselves. This gives deceased ancestors the opportunity to accept these ordinances in the afterlife."

      This can be done in an Ethical manner, by their morality, but backward "Baptizing"people into the Mormon Church without their permission is nutty, plain and simple. Being paid to do so by the State makes it ominous.
      It is _exactly_ as if some nutty Muslims dug through your Family records and backwards forcibly converted your Ancestors to Islam, with very detailed Records to be kept in Mecca. Are you comfortable with this?
      This is very creepy thinking, and I don't care if it is Mormons, Moslems, or Pastafarians, although with the last, Baptism may involve sprinkling with a fine grated Parmesan.

    5. Re: Trust issues by tmh+-+The+Mad+Hacker · · Score: 1

      Not sure why I'm bothering to respond to a crazed A/C, but... Are you Mormon (or Ex-Mormon)? You sure seem to have a rather unhealthy fear of what someone else believes. "Forcibly convert"? Like a Voodoo doll from a comedy where they're going to go "ooga booga" and force something to happen to someone?

      Hey, if Muslims want to dig through my family records (which are a fairly sad collection; maybe they can find some long-lost rich relatives for me!) and go through some ceremony and call me Muslim after I've been dead for 100 years, more power to 'em. Heck, they could dig my remains up and give 'em a bath, for all I care.

      I don't see how the Mormons' concern for their ancestors, though uncommon in Western civilization, is any weirder than what a lot of other religions, particularly Christians, claim. If I understand correctly, Catholics & Orthodox churches believe in infant baptism, and if the baby dies before it's baptized and given its last rites, it's going to hell. Other groups lack a formal ceremony like that, but require a verbal profession of a belief to save you. Mormons say that baptism's required like Catholics, but it's like they consider baptism more of a "checklist" item and instead of damning you because you didn't do it yourself while you were alive, they'll just do the neighborly thing and take care of it for you, so that then you can have the option to be "saved" if you want, and if you don't, that's your business. Rather than forcing you to do something, they feel that they're giving you freedom that you otherwise wouldn't have.

      I've had people of various religions -- Christian, Jew, Budhist -- offer to pray for me on occasion, and I've never been offended by it, or creeped out because they thought their particular brand of religion was going to help me out more than another, but rather I was glad that they cared enough to expend the effort in my behalf, and enjoyed learning more about them in the process. If I knew they were praying, burning incense, etc. behind my back in my behalf, I'd be just as pleased. If I found that they were praying that I'd die a thousand horrible deaths, I'd just snort and wish them happiness. To me, this is no different. As for the family research, if they can get it anyone can, and I can think of a lot of people that I'd be more nervous about what they'd do with my genealogy than some religious group.

      I do like the Parmesan cheese idea, though. Next time I eat spaghetti I might just have to declare it a Pastafarian baptism event!

  4. "The online identity problem" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    There is no online identity problem, just a couple of power-hungry fascists who can't grasp the idea of anonymity or why it's essential to the internet. Without anonymity, you have no internet, just another government-approved propaganda outlet like TV.

    1. Re:"The online identity problem" by sheramil · · Score: 2

      There is no online identity problem, just a couple of power-hungry fascists who can't grasp the idea of anonymity or why it's essential to the internet. Without anonymity, you have no internet, just another government-approved propaganda outlet like TV.

      And with anonymity, you give the impression you are either insufficiently invested, or too afraid, to have your opinions associated with an identity. And what makes you think you can't have government-approved propaganda WITH anonymity?

    2. Re: "The online identity problem" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. Yes, I am VERY afraid to get fired, have my home confiscated or even get executed for my beliefs.

      Which naively wonderful little Disney planet do you live on where that doesn't happen?

    3. Re:"The online identity problem" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Without anonymity, you have no internet, just another government-approved propaganda outlet like TV.

      I believe it is the other way around -- If you have Internet, there is no anonymity. Even though it sounds the same, it is actually not but rather overlapped.

    4. Re:"The online identity problem" by Gussington · · Score: 2

      There is no online identity problem,

      Yes there is. I used to work for a state govt agency and fake Identities and the associated fraud were a huge problem costing taxpayers millions a year. A Blockchain solution can eliminate this if done properly.

    5. Re:"The online identity problem" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the stupidest fucking thing I've read on the internet this month.

    6. Re: "The online identity problem" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You would have done well in Nazi germany 1936, hunting down all those without papers.

    7. Re: "The online identity problem" by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      Which horrible Pixar-country do you live in where that happens?

      Do you live in North Korea? Perhaps in a time-warped East Germany?

      You seriously live in a place where if you can't post anonymously on blogs they will take away your house?

    8. Re: "The online identity problem" by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      That would be 'in Soviet Russia.'

      You know.. the place that was VERY LOUDLY anti-fascist for many years.

    9. Re: "The online identity problem" by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      You are correct. The Internet flattens out the map, and includes everybody on it. In ways no authoritarian could have imagined 50 years ago. The psuedo anonymnity that peole get while 'hiding' behind an ip address that by definition is traceable is a little weird, but people need fantasy in their lives.

    10. Re: "The online identity problem" by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      Fake identities are only a problem when large and overreaching amounts of power are wielded by entities that control the means to validate identities. Make everything a little more local and democratic and the problem evaporates.

      I know... you can't hide in your big fucking cities if your neighborhood becomes a district where everybody knows each other. Fetishes are no fun if we're open about them, etc. and so on...

    11. Re:"The online identity problem" by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      ... if done properly.

      Maybe we could verify the blockchain using Equifax?

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    12. Re:"The online identity problem" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      pipe down and get your sovrinid4a monkeytag implanted in your right hand, or we'll screw one into your forehead.

    13. Re:"The online identity problem" by infolation · · Score: 1

      Ironically the product VP of Evernym, James Monaghan recently said on twitter "Don't be Equifax. Design for trust instead".

      However this entire announcement seems to be post-Equifax noise to drive additional funding to Evernym, in order to bolster the $750,000 they received from the Department of Homeland Security in May as part of their Small Business Innovation Research initiative (which, strangely, was kept quite quiet at the time).

    14. Re: "The online identity problem" by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Which naively wonderful little Disney planet do you live on where that doesn't happen?

      Kolob

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    15. Re: "The online identity problem" by Gussington · · Score: 1

      Fake identities are only a problem when large and overreaching amounts of power are wielded by entities that control the means to validate identities. Make everything a little more local and democratic and the problem evaporates.

      Exactly, which is why I said blockchain solves this. It democratises the identity problem.

    16. Re: "The online identity problem" by clovis · · Score: 1

      Which horrible Pixar-country do you live in where that happens?

      Do you live in North Korea? Perhaps in a time-warped East Germany?

      You seriously live in a place where if you can't post anonymously on blogs they will take away your house?

      Yes, that place is Slashdot.
      And if we ever find out who that Anonymous Coward person is that is always posting here, then, yeah, he/she/it is probably gonna lose the house and get executed.

  5. why? why? by supernova87a · · Score: 2

    Isn't blockchain mostly for transactions that will never be modified/reversed or are single well-defined actions at a point in time, like transfers of money or sales?

    Information about people is complex. What if something about the birth record changes or needs to be corrected?

    We already know the saying, databases are real easy to create, impossible to correct. What do you expect the ability of a government agency to properly administer some new technology like this will be?

    Is this really needed?

    1. Re:why? why? by oldgraybeard · · Score: 1

      In my understanding it is about trust and verification?

    2. Re:why? why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correct.
      Also misleading. Every .gov 3 letter agency has multiple copies of birth/death records, even if they are wrong.
      Take TSA - they know your name an DOB, yet they stop senators and 3 year olds because the human employees are dumber than a piece of paper.. Now there is a retard database with zero intelligence, and blockchain will make things worse. BTW most databases have logging and hashes - meaning there is no advantage over the existing ways.

      Given the hardware/routers and now bluetooth all have back doors, and the OS if MS calls home - block chain is bullshit. Most BD&M offices charge like $35 for a certified copy - no way will the passport office accept a digital record some state flunky office - the same ones who bought heh - secure voting machines.

    3. Re:why? why? by FalcDot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, since we're talking about data that can be changed and/or corrected over time, it is vital to store all this data as an initial set, accompanied by precisely timestamped changes. Because if something occurred when the data was incorrect, or with a previous version of the data, then that exact situation needs to remain preserved for posterity.

      If I sign my name to a contract today and I legally change my name tomorrow, then that contract needs to remain valid. Having a tamper-proof ledger that correctly records what my name was at the time of the signing, and what my name is right now, means that no-one can claim the contract is no longer valid just because of the name change.

    4. Re:why? why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In my understanding it is about trust and verification?

      It's a good example of a word ('trust') being used while the opposite is meant.

      Birth certificates, ID's and other legal documents are all about distrust, not about trust.

      In a world where everyone trusted each other, id's, legal documents and contracts would not be needed.

    5. Re: why? why? by MattKeith · · Score: 1

      There's no reason you can't ammend data using block chain. It's just a untamperable database, which means that there will be a record with your birth name and parents, and later a record showing your surname change when you marry, as an example. Both are still there.

    6. Re:why? why? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I've been trying to imagine what a society where identities are disposable would be like. On the internet it's easy to change your identity, you just create a new account. Bans are basically impossible, all they can do it make it slightly harder but never impossible to generate a new identity and carry on using the service.

      The benefit of being able to change your identity at any time is that you can move on from mistakes, or reputation bombing, or keep different parts of your life (work, politics, family) separate. There has been a lot of talk about how politics should not result in you losing your job lately, for example.

      That would mean that punishments would have to be temporary and only affect one identity. At the moment, even after you come out of jail your criminal record follows you around, so we would have to change our idea of what prison is - a place for rehabilitation, that you come out of when you are no longer a danger to society.

      Of course generating a new identity has its down sides. You start with no reputation, no credit history, and people who know you remember your previous incarnations.

      I think it's worth speculating about, if only to better understand how poorly we manage identity now.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    7. Re:why? why? by Kjella · · Score: 1

      A blockchain doesn't know what digital signatures go with what legal person or who was in control of the signing keys or if they've been duped into signing false information. All that security comes from digital certificates. The only thing a blockchain prevents is rewriting history, like a running checksum that depends on all the previous entries. So the government can't go back and say "no, we never said Bill was now Bob", but if anyone else kept a digitally signed copy of that it'd be proof enough. It's just not proof it's a complete chain, maybe Bob is now Bertrand.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    8. Re:why? why? by GrumpySteen · · Score: 1

      In a world where everyone trusted each other, Nigerian scams would be far more common and far more profitable than they already are.

      A little distrust is a good thing.

    9. Re:why? why? by Gussington · · Score: 1

      Isn't blockchain mostly for transactions that will never be modified/reversed or are single well-defined actions at a point in time, like transfers of money or sales?

      Yes, that's the whole point, What is an identity other than a history of transactions you've had with others?

      Information about people is complex.

      Complexity not a blocker

      What if something about the birth record changes or needs to be corrected?

      How do you correct transactions now? You make an error, and you correct it. With block chain both error and correction transactions are on record and are verifiable. I fail to see an issue here, in fact it makes it more robust

      We already know the saying, databases are real easy to create, impossible to correct. What do you expect the ability of a government agency to properly administer some new technology like this will be?

      Difficult to correct because the govt alone owns and controls the data. With Blockchain that power shifts back to the people.

      Is this really needed?

      Having worked on a government identity project previously I think it is. But you have to stop thinking of it as one profile that can be used against you, and more like a profile which you can have many of, and you choose how and when to use them.

    10. Re:why? why? by coofercat · · Score: 1

      Sounds great, until an honest mistake is made and needs to be rectified. In the current system, there's an override that allows us to correct mistakes such that they aren't visible and don't bias any reader's view of the information their reading. Making a system too indelible will marginalise a minority, not for actions they've ever taken, but for actions someone else took, potentially many years ago.

      None of that means this is a bad idea, but it doesn't make it a good one either.

    11. Re:why? why? by Gussington · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I've been trying to imagine what a society where identities are disposable would be like....

      I think it's worth speculating about, if only to better understand how poorly we manage identity now.

      People have already thought about it which is why things like this are happening, I helped implement one here in my state.
      When dealing with the govt, you can create as many online 'identities' as you like. You then choose if you want to use the same identity across all agencies, or use individual ones for each. Blockchain merely makes this a whole lot easier to validate your reputation. Regardless of your 'identity' used, the other party can choose to transact with you or not based on reputation (rather than govt issued ID which really isn't that reliable).
      Ultimately an identity is just a reputation, and only blockchain technology can give the most reliable way to validate this.

    12. Re:why? why? by MangoCats · · Score: 1

      Issue a patch - just like software, you're not _supposed_ to need to change it once you've released it.

    13. Re:why? why? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Yes. Blockchain is a buzzword and not useful here. What you're looking for is public-key identity (PKI is public-key infrastructure) based on a non-shared-secret challenge-response.

      Today, we can implement this simply by using FIDO devices (UAF/U2F), wherein a user walks into a bank, shows their hard ID (driver's license, passport, etc.), and then establishes a trust with a third-party entity (such as a Credit Reporting Agency--TransUnion, Experian, and Equifax). I've described this for credit fraud (YouTube), such that you won't be able to open new credit accounts (car loan, mortgage, car rental, credit card, etc.) without physical possession of a Security Key device (which you bring yourself). The damned things cost $20 and one holds many keys, so can be used to validate to Google, all three CRAs, the State, and whoever else.

      You could do the same with driver's IDs, and even embed the device in your driver's ID. When you receive your ID, hold it over an NFC sensor at the desk, press the button, and it creates a new key. This could be a special, one-time implementation where the ID card will only generate a new trust when it's brand-new: if you lose your ID, you get a new one, and have to establish trust with the State to activate its identity feature. For mail-out license replacement, you could go to a bank, police station, or some other authorized establishment, which only leaves the same weakness as today, and only until you establish that trust.

      The hard part is establishing identity when you have no identifying papers. How do you prove you're you? Birth certificate is your origin, and we just kind of accept that: if you die as a baby and some no-name takes your papers for his no-name infant, nobody's the wiser. You might create an odd anomaly, unless you dump the baby with the parents of the original and they go along with it.

      Everything beyond that is a matter of having a strange adult with a strange claim of being a person.

    14. Re: why? why? by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Sometimes that amended data needs to stay private. My wife was adopted, which meant being issued a new birth certificate with a completely different name on it. Often records of adoption are sealed, how do you seal off the records before she was 3 years old and her name change?

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    15. Re: why? why? by bws111 · · Score: 1

      Just because the data can ve verified by everyone doesn't mean the plain text of the data has to be visible to everyone. That is one of the advantages of blockchain.

    16. Re:why? why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With birth records it most certainly is NOT needed, and it needs to not happen.

      What about somebody who is trans? Changing your birth certificate is not nearly as useful if the original can't be removed and destroyed, and is part of the chain that some random bigot at the DMV or election commission could retrieve.

      No, it's a terrible idea. There needs to be a way to remove records.

    17. Re:why? why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Buddhists consider this reincarnation. Or it's like getting a new Steam account.

    18. Re: why? why? by F.Ultra · · Score: 1

      Which means that if this goes into production then it's good night for the witness protection program and undercover cops.

    19. Re:why? why? by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      Love him or hate him, Ronnie's "trust, but verify" is the right thing to do.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    20. Re:why? why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I contracted to work a a 3 letter agency back in '09, they had me in a database with my ex-wife, and address overseas from before '94...15 year old data...even though, I'd worked at other agencies in between. Yeah, we need more government...not.

  6. Identity should not be that important by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cities don't have the tight "everybody knows everybody" surveillance network of small communities that many people perceive as constricting and an impediment to progress. Identity is not important to most interactions in our lives, and there should be resistance against the government trying to track us everywhere.

  7. Details change.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What if you get your name changed or have a court order to have your sex changed from birth?

    1. Re: Details change.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's what the thought police are for.

    2. Re:Details change.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      quote>

      What if you get your name changed or have a court order to have your sex changed from birth?

      One thing good about the blockchain is that it can contain a in-erasable history of the changes
      We need to do that due to the kind of people who commit multiple felonies (think grifters and financial fraud) and would very much like to have a new birth certificate and identity.
      Wouldn't it great if Martin Skreli could get a new name and start over with a new identity unconnected to the old identity? Using a blockchain could prevent that or at least prevent his forging a new identity with a college degree.
      I suppose, though, you could find people who would sell/trade their identity.

  8. St00pid, as usual by Cyberax · · Score: 4, Insightful

    All the blockchain ideas are incredibly stupid. It's like a law of nature. Just take any idea, add "blockchain", "sovereign", "decentralized" and it becomes instantly trendy.

    No, blockchain won't help you to establish your identity. It's your private key that you use to sign blockchain updates that establishes it. And if your key is stolen then it's game over for you - somebody ELSE will be owning your identity. Forever. With no recourse for you.

    All realistic proposals (including the one in TFA) include key revocation protocols through some kind of central authority (i.e. government), at which point the whole system becomes indistinguishable from a simple centralized database.

    1. Re:St00pid, as usual by GeekWithAKnife · · Score: 4, Insightful


      Your typical birth registry DB is SIGNIFICANTLY easier to tamper with. With blockchain you can have MILLIONS of copies as an authoritative source".

      It is true that compromising the cryptographic proof of blockchain tech may cause identity theft to be far less believed and thus so much more destructive but it is also significantly harder AND the tech is constantly improving.

      Key revocation can be automated via all nodes/clients in the chain and with multi-factor multi-key signing it becomes significantly harder to tamper with the system,

      Short story, you have your private key, government has their key - decentralized and autonomous solution requires (outside of logins) BOTH keys to produce a unique signature. This is FAR more secure than the current system.

      Blockchain can do more for securing your identity than current methods. Faking national insurance or the like is so much easier.

      You may be a smart person but this time you gave an uninformed comment.

      While it is true that there's a lot of buzz and hype about blockchain it does not make it any less a game changer. Literally will change the world we live in.

      --
      A 'singular oddity' is an event that cannot be explained and only happens when you are alone.
    2. Re:St00pid, as usual by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      Tampering is not really an issue with regular government databases. The problem is usually improper access - and blockchains are by design public.

      I don't really understand your point about "improving tech" - if your private key is stolen then it's over, no matter what tech you're using. And 2FA doesn't even apply if you keep your key locally. I also don't understand WTF you're talking about "both keys".

    3. Re:St00pid, as usual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Where is the motivation here for the decentralization. I mean who is going to provide the encrypting power and host copies of this?
      I wonder if this kind of thing was designed by a committee that wanted to add blockchain to something because it is a great buzz word.
      How about simply saying we will secure a database, it might not be perfect but it works (it is working.) maybe they have a host of benefits which are totally non obvious, I just doubt it.

    4. Re: St00pid, as usual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, blockchains depend entirely on the majority of peers remaining decentralized. A state which is impossible to actually enforce.

    5. Re:St00pid, as usual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All realistic proposals (including the one in TFA) include key revocation protocols through some kind of central authority (i.e. government), at which point the whole system becomes indistinguishable from a simple centralized database.

      I haven't read TFA (this is slashdot), but if that's what TFA says, then it's bad journalism. Read about it for yourself https://github.com/WebOfTrustInfo/rebooting-the-web-of-trust-fall2017/blob/master/topics-and-advance-readings/RWOT-User-Story.md

    6. Re:St00pid, as usual by Gussington · · Score: 1

      Where is the motivation here for the decentralization. I mean who is going to provide the encrypting power and host copies of this?

      The many govt agencies, banks, finance companies, big employers, basically anyone who has an interest in validating your reputation, just like they do now.

      I wonder if this kind of thing was designed by a committee that wanted to add blockchain to something because it is a great buzz word.

      Or people smarter than you have thought about it and can see a better way to do identity.

      How about simply saying we will secure a database, it might not be perfect but it works (it is working.) maybe they have a host of benefits which are totally non obvious, I just doubt it.

      How about simply saying horses might not be perfect but they still get us from A to B. Let's forget about cars and planes and stuff. Are you sure you're in the right place?

    7. Re:St00pid, as usual by Solandri · · Score: 2

      It is true that compromising the cryptographic proof of blockchain tech may cause identity theft to be far less believed and thus so much more destructive but it is also significantly harder AND the tech is constantly improving.

      Yes it makes someone stealing your identity harder. But it makes the proliferation of fake IDs trivial. If there's no central authority, what's to stop someone from flooding the decentralized database with a bunch of fake birth IDs every day. Then in the future if you need a fake birth certificate, you can just pay the guy and he'll send you the private key that corresponds to a birth ID blockchain on the date of your choosing with the proper gender and blood type with a pre-generated name. From TFA:

      In the framework that Illinois and Evernym are partnering on, government agencies are expected to verify birth registration information and then âoecryptographically signâ attributes such as legal name, date of birth, sex or blood type.

      A rogue employee with access to the system can generate a few extra IDs every day and pocket them. Then sell them on the black market in the future. This is currently prevented by being able to compare a birth certificate against a centralized database at the listed hospital of birth (i.e. the two or more centralized databases at different authorities must agree on the information). But if you're going to eliminate the authoritative centralized databases and rely solely on the blockchain as proof of birth ID...

    8. Re: St00pid, as usual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So basically give the keys to our kingdoms to big corps, governments, and other bad guys?

      Yea thatll work outngreat. They always have our best interest at hearts. Fuck off you government shill. You've been all up and down this thread talking about how you've implemented systems for IDs. Yet not once have you stated how you are doing it. Again, fuck off. We do not trust the government and big corps.

    9. Re:St00pid, as usual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this won't be a decentralized blockchain so no there won't be millions of copies. This is just using blockchain technology as a ledger not as a decentralized authority.

  9. Civic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't this what Civic does? https://www.civic.com

  10. How about using the built-in blockchain id system? by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You know, the one using the letters G, A, T, and C.

    (I think I saw a movie that did this ... and nothing went wrong.)

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  11. Easy to create false identities? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If the birth is verified and signed by an agency key then what happens when the agencies private signing key is inevitably leaked (probably via a USB key dropped on a bus or something). Presumably, that means that it would be fairly easy to construct a totally false identity.. You can't just stop trusting real identities that now are signed with an untrusted key?

  12. It's entirely under your control by Iamthecheese · · Score: 1

    You absolutely do not need to share your real identity with anyone. Until you can't get a job, sign up for a utility, get a phone, get a driver's license, get a bank account, or otherwise participate in society without doing so. But really! It's your choice! Not that it's legal for you to just go off into the woods on someone else's land. Or buy land without registering with your Real Identity. Or leave the country without proving your identity. Nope, no pressure. Do anything you like. Throw away your key if you want! No one is forcing you to participate. Your privacy is yours to starve with.

    --
    If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
  13. Also: central authority by DrYak · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Isn't blockchain mostly for transactions that will never be modified/reversed or are single well-defined actions at a point in time, like transfers of money or sales?

    And in the same vein of "Why?" :

    - The whole purpose of blockchain is to have NO central authority, but a distributed public trust.
    (customer A gives money to company B and no central authority is needed to confirm it, as long as both A and B use the bitcoin protocol)

    - The whole point of a Birth registry is TO HAVE a central authority.
    (in case of doubt, check the *official* birth certificate with authority XyZ)

    So it seems even weirder to me. it doesn't seem very useful.

    Information about people is complex. What if something about the birth record changes or needs to be corrected?

    In theory you could still add "amend" records updating the database in the blockchain.
    (Just like the "well-defined actions at a point in time transfers of money" can be followed by subsequent further "transfers of money" - e.g.: spending money previously received).

    In practice that is going to be problematic, because some of this information is personnal - I would guess sex changes, in some jurisdiction : the person doesn't necessarily want that the history of past sex identities to be publicly known.

    In a blockchain technological implementation, all the history NEEDS to be available for the public consensus mecanism to work.

    In a authority clasiccal implementation, the authority might only provide the latest official version publicly and keep the access to the history restricted to the person (and medical personnel)

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
    1. Re: Also: central authority by MattKeith · · Score: 2

      Yes I'm skeptical about the usefulness in this case. Voting would seem a more appropriate use of the tech.. votem is working on that though.

    2. Re:Also: central authority by evought · · Score: 1

      In practice that is going to be problematic, because some of this information is personnal - I would guess sex changes, in some jurisdiction : the person doesn't necessarily want that the history of past sex identities to be publicly known.

      Yes, and there are many other situations where there is a long legal tradition of retroactive and potentially sealed changes to a birth record:

      1. Retroactive citizenship changes.
      2. Adoption out of a dangerous situation, i.e. where the child becomes a ward of the state and is subsequently adopted because of abusive or criminal parents who may be an ongoing danger to the child's life and well-being.
      3. Adoption where the biological parent insists on confidentiality.
      4. Witness protection (or similar legal name-changes connected to a protective order where there is a physical danger from revealing not just the change but the fact that a change ever took place) .
      5. Deep undercover operations (becoming much more difficult for a variety of reasons).

      Anyway, in any of these situations, one wants the change to not appear at the point in time that the revision is made but to be indistinguishably dated to the time of the initial record. So, there is an inherent conflict here between the use of the block-chain to create a non-centralized log with non-repudiation versus the fact that a certificate of birth is very much an act of a central authority which can and may legitimately later change its mind. It would, at the very least, require a complete change to the way we legally approach the issue of birth certificates.

    3. Re:Also: central authority by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't blockchain mostly for transactions that will never be modified/reversed or are single well-defined actions at a point in time, like transfers of money or sales?

      And in the same vein of "Why?" :

      - The whole purpose of blockchain is to have NO central authority, but a distributed public trust.
      (customer A gives money to company B and no central authority is needed to confirm it, as long as both A and B use the bitcoin protocol)

      - The whole point of a Birth registry is TO HAVE a central authority.
      (in case of doubt, check the *official* birth certificate with authority XyZ)

      So it seems even weirder to me. it doesn't seem very useful.

      Information about people is complex. What if something about the birth record changes or needs to be corrected?

      In theory you could still add "amend" records updating the database in the blockchain.
      (Just like the "well-defined actions at a point in time transfers of money" can be followed by subsequent further "transfers of money" - e.g.: spending money previously received).

      In practice that is going to be problematic, because some of this information is personnal - I would guess sex changes, in some jurisdiction : the person doesn't necessarily want that the history of past sex identities to be publicly known.

      In a blockchain technological implementation, all the history NEEDS to be available for the public consensus mecanism to work.

      In a authority clasiccal implementation, the authority might only provide the latest official version publicly and keep the access to the history restricted to the person (and medical personnel)

      Not quite,
      The point of a blockchain is to have a centralized authority of which tehre is decentralized control.
      The block chain is the authority, however anyone can change the blockchain if and only if they get a consensus from the network.

      In theory a blockchain would work for birth records as you want the records to be easily examined when needed, easily added by authorised stake holders, but difficult for an unauthorized stake holder to forge.

      The main problem will be that in practice when applied to something like birth records you'll have no intrisic property that keeps the block-chain in sync with reality. So it wont actually solve the problem of missing or fraudulent records. It will juts make you more confident that if the records are missing or fraudulent somone actually did something to make it so (data entry error, delibrate fraud, etc) rather than say, the filing cabinate containing it was lost in a fire.

  14. Legal name? Sex? Not sure any of this makes sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    In the UK, at least, it's normal for children not to have any kind of name until weeks after they are born. And when people change their sex they often don't want that information to be permanently embedded in any kind of public record. So I would have thought that a paper document or a standard government database would be a much better solution that any kind of "blockchain", however fashionable that concept may be.

  15. In the first place by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is there an "online" "identity" "problem" to be "solved"?

    Do I want to have the same identity with Google, Facebook, some crappy app provider, the birth registry, my neighbor, the business partner I've been sharing work for the last 15 years and that romantic acquaintance?

    NO, ONE THOUSAND TIMES NO!

    Even if it's as buzzwordy as "blockchain". No.

  16. So in summary... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Blockchain. Blockchain, blockchain blockchain "blockchain, blockchain blockchain block-chain blockchain chain." blockchain. Blockchain blockchain block blockchain blockchain.

  17. Central vs decentral by sjbe · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Isn't blockchain mostly for transactions that will never be modified/reversed or are single well-defined actions at a point in time, like transfers of money or sales?

    I think a birth fits that definition rather well.

    - The whole purpose of blockchain is to have NO central authority, but a distributed public trust. - The whole point of a Birth registry is TO HAVE a central authority.

    No, the purpose is to be able to verify data. Centralization or the lack thereof is a side effect - possibly a useful one but a side effect all the same. There is no inherent reason a birth registry has to be centralized. It just has been because it was was the most expedient and reliable process at the time to do so at the time most birth registries were developed. If anything it would be more useful to have a decentralized registry of such public records if it could be done safely and reliably because it become more robust if you have multiple copies. I have family that had critical master copies of documents (birth certificates and military records) lost in fires because they were centrally stored with inadequate backups.

    Now whether a blockchain is a good use for this specific problem is something I haven't given serious thought to but it's an interesting question. I've said for a long time that Bitcoin is an idiotic implementation of a currency by people who generally value ideology over evidence in economics. But the blockchain technology it relies upon is actually really promising for a wide variety of practical applications and is probably the most valuable thing about bitcoin.

    1. Re:Central vs decentral by jediborg · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Here is the main problem I see with using the Blockchain for identity purposes:
      1. 1) Government Introduces fancy new blockchain identity system
      2. 2) I take your Government-issued-id, social-security-number (stolen via already used methods) and maybe even your fingerprint that I lifted from your coffee mug
      3. 3) I take your 'records' to the government office, register your info in the blockchain, and get the private key sent to myself
      4. 4) I now have control over your blockchain-issued identity. I can use this to conduct identity theft, getting credit cards, wellfare, car loans, all in your name
      5. 5) Now because the blockchain is 'immutable' unless all the miners on the blockchain are government owned, no one can 'correct' the entry I have control of your identity and no one can change it! bwahahaha

      The ONE SINGULAR benefit of centralized government control of this database is that I can go to a judge and say 'this guy isn't me, someone stole my identity, and I think that someone is Jim'. Then the judge can have jim brought before the court, have him tried of identity theft, and even if jim doesn't get jail time, the judge can have the government documents modified so that I am now in control, I can use the law to have the credit reporting agencies correct their reports and scrub the entries created by JIM because I have the judicial verdict to show them

  18. It doesn't matter if it's blockchain by wisebabo · · Score: 1

    or quantum encryption or photographic evidence or eye-witnesses testifying under oath.

    People will still believe that Obama wasn't born in America.

    Perhaps only if it was in the Bible (and in BOTH testaments and inscribed on the Ten Commandments and the Dead Sea scrolls) would they be willing put aside their prejudices (by the way, that word is derived from PRE JUDGMENT) to face reality. Why? Because these people, and I'll call a spade a spade here, are RACIST. (And I'm not even Black!) No amount of technology can conquer bigotry. :( So don't get your hopes up to high that blockchain will solve all your verification needs.

    America (and the World?) has got a long long way to go before racism is eliminated. I'm not holding my breath for it :(

    1. Re:It doesn't matter if it's blockchain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you saying that, because you are not black, you are a more legitimate judge of what is and is not racist?

  19. What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    [...] we felt it was important to develop a framework that examines identity from its inception at child birth... Identity is not only foundational to nearly every government service, but is the basis for trust and legitimacy in the public sector.

    The hell does this mean? Identity is the sum of things that makes any thing distinct from everything else. Not something that comes into being when you're born.

    "Examine" it? Does this mean examining identity as a concept? Haven't you put the cart before the horse if this is the case? Or does it mean literally examining one's "identity" as though it's something physical that you can touch and trade and see? You can't because it's an abstract idea.

    Also, there's not really any reason that identity (even in this bastard conception of identity) is especially necessary for government services. All you need is some way of distinguishing between individuals. There's no reason why it has to be the same "identity" as anything else. The need to collect taxes is interesting from this perspective but there are plenty of ways of doing that without the need to demarcate between individuals or discriminate on that basis. Whether they're good or not is, of course, a different discussion.

    As far as "the basis for trust and legitimacy in the public sector," legitimacy comes from voting, not from identity. Yes, there is some kind of brand that you vote for whether it's the party behind the candidate or the candidate themselves, but it's the vote that counts here. Not the brand. It's a ridiculous notion that because somebody has a name, they have legitimacy. I wouldn't vote for somebody that thinks this way. I guess at least the trust part makes a bit of sense. Becoming a matter of public record means they probably think a bit about the things they're doing. Although again, this is more about what the person does and not who the person is.

    I have to scratch my head every time something like this comes up because it feels like they've assumed things to be true or at least exist a specific way that I do not think are true or exist in those ways.

    1. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're talking about legal identity, not philosophical identity.

  20. Re:How about using the built-in blockchain id syst by Gussington · · Score: 4, Interesting

    That isn't blockchain, it's simply a really long serial number...

  21. bag em and tag em by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    government loves things like this because it promotes the abolition of anonymity on the Internet, how long will it be before your digital identity will be required in order to hook up an Internet connection?

  22. what about secret identities? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's assume a technology like this works and becomes ubiquitous. Now when asked to provide your identity, it is 100% certain you are who you say you are.

    How would law enforcement have a mole that isn't traceable to their real life? More importantly, how would Batman maintain an identity separate from Bruce Wayne?

  23. Re:How about using the built-in blockchain id syst by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You saw a movie about people tampering with those build in block chains, demonstrating they are inherently insecure. (I mean if it works in hollywood then it works in real life.)

  24. Witness Protection Program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In order to deal with things like the witness protection program & undercover police operations, governments would need to add birth & other false records every day at random times to provide cover identities for people 20~90 years in the future. Because of this, blockchained records would have a lot more false data than the current system.

  25. Blockchain Depends on Disinterested Parties by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here's the big problem with big government blockchains: they do not depend on disinterested parties. In all six of Illinois' blockchain pilots, all of the hardware being used to hash the blockchains is owned by the State. There are no independent, disinterested actors in any of the blockchains being used.

    They are basically creating only the illusion of integrity, but then that is their goal.

  26. So who does the mining and why? by Nkwe · · Score: 1

    With the Bitcoin blockchain there is a reward for helping to maintain the ledger (chain) -- that reward being coins and transaction fees granted to the person successfully adding a block to the chain. Security is created by having lots of distributed computing power owned by different people that all have the common goal of maintaining the integrity of the system. The system can be compromised if a single actor controls more than half of the computing power, but since lots of different people are financially incentivized to prevent this Bitcoin has worked so far.

    Why would lots of people work together to maintain a birth registry blockchain? What financial incentive would they have? If a single entity (say the government) controls over half the the "proof of work" power, then the registry is essentially centralized and really no different than a regular database.

    In the case of a birth registry, it may be okay to be centralized. Having a chain of signatures which starts with a well known public key and is then used to incrementally validate transactions is a decent way to validate a data set. However you could just sign the whole data set with the initial key and be done with it, blockchain not required.

    1. Re:So who does the mining and why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are other systems that dont require mining, (proof of work)
      Look up Proof of Stake and Proof of Authority.

    2. Re:So who does the mining and why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In this case, Illinois is experimenting with Proof of Stake consensus. However, the State itself is the only entity that would have a Proof of Stake in such a deployment, and therefore the approach is fatally flawed from the beginning. As another poster noted, blockchain integrity, regardless of algorithm, depends on there being a diverse set of workers/stakeholders, some of whom are financially incentivized to maintain the integrity of the blockchain.

      In the IL approach, the only penalty for integrity failure is that the State loses its stake to itself. There is no real financial penalty for causing an integrity failure.

  27. one more step by p51d007 · · Score: 1

    DNA enhancements to make a QR code appear on your hand...why not? Hell, Sweden is putting chips in your skin for your "convenience".

  28. What if... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I identify as a different blood type?

  29. How we do it in Belgium by houghi · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Here is how we do it in Belgium
    1) When you are born or when you become an official person you get a National ID. This is your date of birth, an increasing number and a control number.
    That is you. However that number is NOT to identify you. It is to be used AFTER identification. If this would somehow be broken for whatever reason, you can get a new one.
    2) You get an ID. Since forever when you are 12. This ID is used to well, ID you. There is a number of the ID. You can verify if an ID is valid or not on https://www.checkdoc.be/ If it is stolen or lost you call it in and it will be blocked right away. You will have to go to the police for a temp one if they stop you (e.g. when you where speeding) and you can not do anything where you would need an ID, like take a loan. You will have to get a new ID. That take up to 2 weeks.

    The data on the chip can be read via open source https://eid.belgium.be/en Source is available for also Linux, so you can read the code.
    That ID is to, well, ID you.

    The downside is that you can not block what can be read. That means that if it is read, they can read your address and age. So they could spam you. As long as you not put it in every reader you see, scamming is a lot harder (never impossible)

    The thing is that the ID is not unique. You need to replace it every 5 years. It can be lost or stolen. The fact that that is possible is a GOOD thing, because that means the procedure is in place that theft is an option. Having something in place that can not be (easily) changed is the issue.

    Companies, once they have identified you, will use the National Number. But only after identification. At that moment it becomes easier to use. However when identification is needed (e.g. if you want to increase your credit limit) you will need your ID again to identify you.

    So US, it is open source, use it as you please.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    1. Re:How we do it in Belgium by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hahaha, in the US we can't even require people to get ID's because it's considered racist! Yup, that's what we are dealing with over here. Nevermind the fact that we can figure out ways to get government benefits $ to them, they can find a way to get places to vote, they can get places to buy food and eat and healthcare. But getting an ID is way too impossible for some people! There's no way we could implement a highly functioning system like you have.

    2. Re:How we do it in Belgium by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      The notion of a national ID is anathema to much of the US population and it's something that both Democrats and Republicans don't want. Depending on who you're talking to, it's because of racial issues, immigration issues, a backdoor means for gun control, warrantless information gathering on US citizens, or some other form of unconstitutional overreach by the federal government.

      That's the whole point with a system like what Illinois is putting together. It's state-run, so it evades a lot of the federal overreach concerns, and it's decentralized, so it avoids the concerns about a centralized means for control. It may even appease some of the sovereign state folks, who tend to reject the notion of issued IDs altogether, since these ones would be entirely in their control.

    3. Re:How we do it in Belgium by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      2) [...] If it is stolen or lost you call it in and it will be blocked right away. You will have to go to the police for a temp one if they stop you (e.g. when you where speeding) and you can not do anything where you would need an ID, like take a loan. You will have to get a new ID. That take up to 2 weeks.

      Wow, so it comes with a built-in way to DOS attack people you don't like or that you are competing with? They're screwed for up to two weeks?

  30. Re:How about using the built-in blockchain id syst by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    DNA as a 'mark of the beast' works until you discover chimeric people. Genetic mosacism is a problem for determining identity. Depending on what you sample you get different DNA.

    As creepy it is to think of babies eating babies in the womb, this is very common for domestic cats. Among felines some types of coat are not suitable for show just because they indicate absorption of a litter mate. The task of pure-breeding cats for show is to breed them. So you need to predict what the kittens will be before you start stirring the genetic pool. That is already hard enough with the complexity of cat genetics.

    You can't predict anything when your animal or person is effectively a Frankenstein's monster built by nature (or God, or whatever.) Even re-running the birth twice is likely to produce divergent results.

  31. so is your dna your key, or an actual private key? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seems like both have issues. How do you actually prove who you are?

  32. Don't lose your private key, Gramma! by hoggoth · · Score: 1

    I'd like everyone involved in this project to imaging giving their grandmother a lifetime ID that can never be replaced that requires grandma to keep her private key, a 512-bit string of digits, secure from hackers, hard drive crashes, agencies with sloppy security, malware, malicious other people, ransomeware, a single typo in a long string of gibberish, back backup operational procedures, and misunderstanding the difference between her private-key, her public-key, her wallet, her address, her seed phrase, and her encryption password.

    Actually they can do this right now. Tell grandma to buy $1 worth of Bitcoin and keep it safe. Good luck Grannie.

    --
    - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    1. Re:Don't lose your private key, Gramma! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Forget Gramma, you know some clueless IT contractor* will accidentally wipe out or leak the government's private key and the whole system will implode.

      *Or a high ranking government official who insists he needs to have control for when IT staff are fired/hired. We all know the higher ups don't think laws and IT security practices apply to them.

    2. Re:Don't lose your private key, Gramma! by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

      I'd like everyone involved in this project to imaging giving their grandmother a lifetime ID that can never be replaced that requires grandma to keep her private key, a 512-bit string of digits, secure from hackers, hard drive crashes, agencies with sloppy security, malware, malicious other people, ransomeware, a single typo in a long string of gibberish, back backup operational procedures, and misunderstanding the difference between her private-key, her public-key, her wallet, her address, her seed phrase, and her encryption password.

      Sounds like a user interface problem.

      Somewhat less glibly, that sounds like a user interface problem that could also be improved with the use of hardware keys, like smartcards or Yubikeys. When Grandma can no longer keep track of her car keys, then she might have a problem with her ID keycard, but until then, she should be good to go, if the interface is reasonable.

      The anonymous coward's comment about the government losing control of its root key seems to be a far worse problem, though that too is manageable.

  33. birth date, name, beliefs, blacklisting, suffering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A person who goes against the populous will be accounted for as divergent, and exiled from society only to toil in oblivion until they succumb to starvation. Anyone who tries to help will have a record of that help, and will be exiled as well. Acceptance of the populous will be mandatory if you want to survive...the end will surely be near.

  34. No registration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My children's birth will not be registered.

    1. Re:No registration by Nkwe · · Score: 1

      My children's birth will not be registered.

      Good luck with that. At least here in the US it is pretty difficult to get though life without a birth certificate (which is a registration).

  35. Sounds like replacing number tattoos by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    with fancy nazi-like registry tech to me.

  36. Re:How about using the built-in blockchain id syst by iggymanz · · Score: 1

    not unique, some identical twins have been found with variations at certain places in genome but not all are like that, and of course the whole genome is not used for DNA test

  37. Its Too Soon... by pubwvj · · Score: 1

    The state should not be jumping on the latest fad of blockchains but instead should stick with a tried and true technology like letters and numbers, writing, print, things that have been proven for thousands of years.

    The problem with blockchain and such is that it is so new the probabilities are it will not be around for long.

  38. Criminal Evidence? by sinequonon · · Score: 1

    How about block-chaining digital evidence in a criminal case?

    --
    -Bob-
  39. Re:Legal name? Sex? Not sure any of this makes sen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The initial record could be parents, timestamp, location and so on, there's no reason a name couldn't be added in a transaction later that amends the original info much like the way people spend bitcoin they have previously received.