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Jeweler Forged Judge's Signature To Force Google To Kill Negative Reviews (thedailybeast.com)

A sapphire salesman is facing jail time for forging a judge's signature in a case involving Google. Kelly Weill from The Daily Beast reports: Michael Arnstein is the third-generation owner of the Natural Sapphire Company, a Manhattan-based jewelry business. After a falling-out with a former business partner, Arnstein's company amassed dozens of negative reviews, which featured prominently in the Natural Sapphire Company's Google search results. Arnstein sued the former business partner in 2011, accusing him of writing defamatory negative reviews, and a judge ordered the partner to delete 54 of the negative comments. But some negative reviews remained, even after the court order. So Arnstein copied the judge's signature and forged new court orders of his own, demanding that Google scrub negative reviews from his company's search results, Arnstein admitted in a guilty plea on Friday.

52 comments

  1. What could possibly go wrong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Forging the signature of a judge to circumvent the checks and balances of the legal system. What a simple idea. There's absolutely no way that that could go wrong - after all, court orders aren't logged in a central system; the recipient of the order can't check back with the court to verify it; and it couldn't possibly come back upon the forger.

    Right? Right?

    1. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Garbage in garbage out.

    2. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by geekmux · · Score: 2

      Forging the signature of a judge to circumvent the checks and balances of the legal system. What a simple idea. There's absolutely no way that that could go wrong - after all, court orders aren't logged in a central system; the recipient of the order can't check back with the court to verify it; and it couldn't possibly come back upon the forger.

      Right? Right?

      Criminals are stupid. He simply wasn't stupid enough to make his crime worth it.

      Generally you find that level of stupidity and arrogance in the banking and auto industry where it's a job prerequisite for executives...

    3. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But he is really a "true" salesman! Isn't that the way many salesmen do when they want to sell stuff? :p

    4. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no, but charlatans who call themselves salespeople do. Real Sales Professionals do it right.

    5. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by Oceanplexian · · Score: 1

      To be fair, the legal system is not all that secure, compared to the checks and balances that go into most online services, such as two factor authentication, cryptographic keys and certificate authorities, etc.

      It would not take all that much to create a fake jurisdiction with a phone number, an address, and a website, invent a fake judge, and then send court orders to Google to "remove" things from the internet, or to request disclosure of private information. Google receives so many legal requests, and has a short time frame to respond to them. No way in hell Google is doing due diligence on all of them.

  2. Reputation management by NormanHaga2580 · · Score: 0

    This is a case of SEO reputation management taken to an illegal level.

    1. Re:Reputation management by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Seems a good portion of that field hovers right on the border.

  3. Hey! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That works?

    1. Re:Hey! by GrumpySteen · · Score: 2

      If your goal is to commit an easily detectable felony and get sent to jail for it, then yes, it works.

  4. Negative brand equity by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When a company has a bad reputation, and customers avoid it, it has negative brand equity, and the brand is worth less than nothing. The simple and obvious solution is to change the name of the business, or start a new business and transfer the assets. This would have likely been far cheaper than paying legal expenses and then slowly rebuilding the brand upward from Death Valley.

  5. Another one bites the dust. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why didn't he just threaten to withhold advertising revenue?

    1. Re: Another one bites the dust. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You pay Upfront for Google ads. I guess you could threaten to stop using Google for advertising, but something tells me they don't really care.

  6. No risk, no reward. by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

    I hope he was sure it was worth the risk because to me this seems like a dumb reason to risk jail time and really bad PR.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  7. Is there a problem here? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The guy did something illegal and is now going to jail. To my mind, the system worked as it’s supposed to in this case.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:Is there a problem here? by swillden · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The guy did something illegal and is now going to jail. To my mind, the system worked as it’s supposed to in this case.

      Does it have to be a problem for it to be interesting?

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    2. Re:Is there a problem here? by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      I do think it's telling of Slashdots history that the immediate thought on many people's minds with these sorts of stories is "wait a minute, there's nothing to be outraged about here, why is this story here?!"

      It shows that Slashdot had pushed the outrage stance significantly in the past - with many of its readership conditioned as a result.

      There is no outrage to be had here - it's posted because it has a Google connection most likely. The guy did bad, is going to jail for it, not sure anyone can dispute that. Oh, Google, perhaps that's on topic - posted.

      But the reactions to the story here tell a story all of their own...

    3. Re:Is there a problem here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is there a problem here?

      No.

      You just proved Betteridge's law of headlines.

    4. Re:Is there a problem here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah, that is kind of sad that we condition ourselves to look for something to be outraged about.

    5. Re:Is there a problem here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who said there was a problem? It's more of an "amazement at the stupidity of this guy" story.

    6. Re:Is there a problem here? by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      No, no problem. It's actually good news.

      The more people hear of this, the less likely they're going to send forged legal documents signed by a judge to Google (and possibly to other companies). And the less people do this type of crime, the more time and resources the FBI can dedicate to other problems.

    7. Re:Is there a problem here? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Who said there was a problem? It's more of an "amazement at the stupidity of this guy" story.

      Slashdot is full of people who know exactly what should or shouldn't be slashstories. Of course, they tend to want only stories they are personally interested in.

      This is a fun story.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    8. Re:Is there a problem here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Stuff like this is happening more often. The more it happens, the more abuses happen and the more people don't get caught.

      One trick that businesses use against workers is to present their argument as if it were a court decision. The first notice that you get from the court tells you that the case is already decided and they have already ruled against you and they have established matters of fact that cannot be overturned on appeal. In my case I had a judge who was very friendly to my position and I had brought in company paperwork to dispute several false points of fact, and he would not let me overturn the false allegations and his ruling repeated that they were true. If that's what happens with a friendly judge, it can't be good if you have a judge who is neutral or pro-corporate.

    9. Re: Is there a problem here? by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      Hey man, whatever gets clicks is fair game.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  8. I expected much more ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I expected much more from the Irish gem dealer community. Weren't their criminals a lot smarter in the past?

    1. Re:I expected much more ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Irish? Arnsteins usually came from Bavaria originally. In any event, Sapphires, or Emeralds for that matter, aren't found in Ireland; there are no native valuable Irish Gemstones.
      But perhaps you were using "Irish" as a euphemism, preferring not mentioning... say Sri Lankans... for your own very odd reasons.

    2. Re:I expected much more ... by Khyber · · Score: 2

      " there are no native valuable Irish Gemstones."

      Bullshit. Aquamarine is found in Ireland. Gem-quality Fluorite is found there. Opal is found there. Amethyst is found there. Topaz is found there.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  9. Don't Mess With Judges by SeattleLawGuy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes, bad reviews are terrible for a business, and often unfair. Lawsuits are usually the wrong way to respond to those, and positive reviews from satisfied customers are usually a great way to respond to those--but lawsuits are an option if someone keeps making illegitimate complaints and it hurts your business enough, or if someone is using them to harass your employees, for example.

    You know what's not an option?

    Forging court orders.

    --
    Real lawyers write in C++
    1. Re:Don't Mess With Judges by mlyle · · Score: 1

      Yah, it's clearly not OK but I can't help but have some sympathy for the guy. He was targeted with illegitimate reviews; fought one round in the courts and prevailed; and then maybe couldn't afford/stomach another battle.

    2. Re:Don't Mess With Judges by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've seen fake reviews written by Indians who have clearly never been to the store in question on a couple sites in my area. Are people paying on some microgig site to get bad reviews of competitors posted? I know you can pay for fake positive reviews, so why not get some third world guy to post negative reviews on your competitor for a couple bucks? Fake negative reviews are just as much of a problem as fake positive review. I swear Asia has ruined the Internet.

    3. Re:Don't Mess With Judges by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2

      There's a world of difference between defamatory and just plain negative - he won the case to remove defamatory reviews, and almost certainly wouldn't have a case for removing simply negative reviews.

      So he didn't bother with the case.

      The judge said "delete 54", not "delete all", and there was a reason for that - a reason this guy obviously disagreed with.

    4. Re:Don't Mess With Judges by KingOfBLASH · · Score: 2

      User reviews are suspect to begin with.

      I can't tell you the number of great shops I've been to that have had really terrible reviews posted.

      * A guitar shop I frequent had a 1 star review posted (because 0 stars are not possible) because the owner asked him to get control of his kids. Ernie is a nice guy, but not the most socially graceful, and I could see him cursing. So the guy went off in his review about how bad a person the shopkeep was, never once thinking "Hey maybe having unsupervised children in a guitar shop isn't the best idea"

      * A mechanic I use because he's incredibly honest (he's the only guy who will tell you "nah you've got another 5k miles in those tires," won't upsell you, or otherwise prevent you from wasting money had a review posted about how he was a thief. I found this kinda crazy especially because of the honesty of the guy. Turns out they left their car unlocked and something disappeared from it. Because the mechanic was the last place they went it must've been the mechanic who stole it.

      * A lady bought some guitar strings from me on ebay. Total cost? $10. My ebay auctions specifically state handling can take up to 5 days because I'm busy, and she didn't have a clear address. By the time it was fixed and I got to the post office it was day 5. Still in terms, she left a ranting review full of curses because I "wasn't worth a damn" because shipping took so long and also that "it should never take more than two to three days to receive a package." Really incredible seeing as she's on the other side of the country.

      Then, on the other end of the spectrum, there are people who equate "I liked it" with 5 stars.

      Statistically reviews should be a bell curve, but really you have to look into them to find out if in fact they're correct.

  10. Re:Stereotypes can be accurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This story wrecks the stereotype that 'red sea pedestrians' are smart.

  11. If you are going to forge a court order ... by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

    ... at least get something that is worth the risk. Scrubbing negative review from google search? Dumb people be, dumb people do.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  12. Is there anybody more awesome than me? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

    Betterige says...

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  13. took justice on his own hands by OppMan29 · · Score: 1

    he pretty much got screwed twice , his lawyer should had asked for google history to be scrubbed cleaned//

  14. The fake "AC' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    There's a trick the reputation companies do (basically fraud).

    1. AC writes a bad review of a company X.
    2. X files a defamation case against AC
    3. A person comes forward admitting they are the AC, and agrees their comment is defamation
    4. The person coming forward is a fraudster working for a reputation management company, not the real AC.
    5. X goes to court with AC's testimony, confirming it is defamation and demands internet company takes down comment.

    Judges are wising up to this particular trick, but I'm sure the companies have lots of these games up their sleeves that we don't yet know about.

    1. Re:The fake "AC' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AC coming forward means they are no longer AC but Named Person, and NP is now on the hook for damages. And if NP does this more than a couple of times they are going to jail. I think you are talking shit.

    2. Re: The fake "AC' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They don't have to do it too many times. Having negative reviews removed can be extremely valuable.

      Especially if you can point to a court case where somebody was on the hook for a large sum of money for "fake" reviews.

      All they need is a warm body that's going to jail along with everybody else if they snitch.

    3. Re:The fake "AC' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AC coming forward means they are no longer AC but Named Person, and NP is now on the hook for damages. And if NP does this more than a couple of times they are going to jail. I think you are talking shit.

      You don't get what parent said, do you? The AC in question is not the real AC who wrote the review but rather someone the reputation management company hired to be placed in court. Besides, the hired person may not use a real document ID if the person is already in this kind of business, or the person is so dumb to be a crimial. Then the person just disappears from the area (the person may not even be in the area in the first place).

  15. Rockhounds already knew this by Khyber · · Score: 1

    That's why those of us in lapidary circles on FB and other places tend to get our rubies and sapphires from people that do the mining themselves. Well, I mine my own, since you can find ruby and sapphire in California.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  16. We need an actual search engine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One that indexes the internet without censorship

    1. Re:We need an actual search engine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      we really really don't

  17. Such flawed logic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What if someone attempted to kill you? An absolutely premeditated attack. The person aims their gun at you, pulled the trigger, but the gun did not work. No harm here, so no punishment is warranted by your logic.

  18. Re:Punishment by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    Punishment is overrated. It should be used ti correct bad behavior, not mitigate harm.

  19. Re:Stereotypes can be accurate by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

    (((Michael Arnstein))) (((Jeweler))) Why does this stereotype write itself?

    Some races criminals are prodominantly petty crime while others are white collar crime. A few have an even mix of both.

    Any "race" can have criminals.

    As for the stereotype you are whining about, you need to go and study some european history to see why it is traditional for people of the Jewish persuasion to be working in the jewelry and financial sectors. At one time that was the only careers they were allowed to have.

    Hint - its another dumbass thing in the holy babble about who is allowed to make loans to who.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  20. Re:Punishment by kimvette · · Score: 0

    I dunno. If a presidential candidate and his sons attempted treason and collusion with an enemy of state, and if I were a prosecutor, I would file treason and espionage charges even if they failed, for example, if someone were to try to leverage money laundering and real estate deals to get dirt on an opponent and ended up in the White House. I would absolutely file those charges and push for the maximum sentence allowed by the constitution, because the intent was clear, in this purely hypothetical case, that they tried to sell an entire nation out to the enemy for personal gain.

    Sometimes an attempted crime is every bit as bad as one which was successful, and should be punished just as harshly to deter others from attempting the same.

    --
    The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
  21. Re: Punishment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But what if said President were very rich and very corrupt and would get your kids into the best schools if you dropped the whole thing?

  22. Re:Punishment by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    We have seen the enemy and it is us. - Pogo