GNOME Partners With Purism On Librem 5 Linux-based Privacy-focused Smartphone (betanews.com)

Gnome doing the UI? by Hognoxious · 2017-09-20 05:28 · Score: 3, Funny

With Gnome doing the UI it'll be so private that even the owner can't find his shit.

Captcha: frosty

--
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."

Re: Gnome doing the UI? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 05:48 · Score: 0

Look on the bright side, no matter how awful of a job they do, it probably won't be worse than Firefox OS was!
Re:Gnome doing the UI? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 06:10 · Score: 0

Just get a pink garden gnome flipping the bird for UI.
Re:Gnome doing the UI? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-24 05:48 · Score: 0

Don't worry. If it has systemd it probably won't get as far as the GUI.

oh good by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 05:30 · Score: 2, Insightful

because what I need gnome to do is pull a mozilla and half ass a phone for a few years
that will suck up resources and put them behind on their core product
which will then lose most market share and eventually die
awesome

Re:oh good by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 08:31 · Score: 1

Hey man that's a good strategy. The quicker Gnome dies the better for the linux community. Gnome is a cancer, if pie in the sky smartphone projects brings about their demise it's all good.
Re:oh good by Grishnakh · 2017-09-20 08:33 · Score: 1

Well hopefully they put more resources on it than Mozilla did, because Mozilla's still around and Firefox is OK (not great, just OK). I want to see Gnome die sooner rather than later. The death of Gnome would be a benefit to the cause of desktop Linux.
Re: oh good by KGIII · 2017-09-20 12:43 · Score: 1

I don't prefer Gnome, but I don't hate it. I've used it as my DE, but changed it. I didn't find it all that bad.
How is it harmful to Linux? I guess I'm not seeing why you'd say that. It's just one of many desktop environments that you can select. More choices are good, yes? Competition is good, yes?
Oddly, even with modern hardware, I prefer LXDE. Still, I didn't find Gnome to be that bad.

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"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Re: oh good by Grishnakh · 2017-09-20 13:45 · Score: 1

Competition is fine. Domination by something sub-standard is not. That's why Gnome is harmful to Linux. I can't even recommend Linux in good conscience to anyone without being extremely specific about which sub-distro they should use, because if they pick a standard distro running Gnome, they're going to have an awful experience because Gnome is such a piece of shit and such a large departure from what they're used to.
Re: oh good by KozmoStevnNaut · 2017-09-20 21:43 · Score: 1

Gnome definitely needs to die and get replaced with Cinnamon ASAP.

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Eat the rich.
Re: oh good by Grishnakh · 2017-09-21 00:37 · Score: 1

I'm not a big fan of Cinnamon either. I'd rather see KDE take over as the primary DE for Linux. But I think it'd be healthiest for the Linux ecosystem for Gnome to completely die, and all the alternatives to increase their share of the space, so that any incoming user has several very viable alternatives to choose from, rather than one that gets all the glory (undeservedly), while all the others seem to barely be afterthoughts and generally get poo-pooed.
Re: oh good by KozmoStevnNaut · 2017-09-21 00:47 · Score: 1

I like KDE, but it just seems to be that they're trying to do way too much stuff, and it's affecting the quality and stability. It got a hell of a lot better with KDE 5, but it's still less than ideal.
On the other hand, Cinnamon gets out of my way, which I appreciate.

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Eat the rich.
Re: oh good by Grishnakh · 2017-09-21 00:54 · Score: 1

Yeah, I do agree that KDE seems to be stretched too thin, and this was especially a problem in the 4.x cycle with all the crap they tried to throw in there. But in our ideal universe where Gnome dies, I think KDE would get some more developer time which would help with the quality and stability problems.
Gnome delenda est.
Re: oh good by KozmoStevnNaut · 2017-09-21 01:11 · Score: 1

This would be the best-case scenario IMO. Qt is so ridiculously superior to GTK, it's not even funny.

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Eat the rich.
Re: oh good by KGIII · 2017-09-21 01:14 · Score: 1

That doesn't really explain why you think it's so bad. I may be missing something, but I don't find it all that terrible? What, specifically, am I missing? You've usually had good opinions in the past, so I respect your opinions. This is a serious question - I'm not sure why it's so harmful in your views, specifically.
I use LXDE, so I presume I have bad taste. I don't even do it for the low resource usage, I do it because I like the features and the way it looks. It's pretty easy to customize and rather stable. So, I use it. It also affords me easy entry into the Ubuntu ecosystem and their resources are vast and easily discoverable.

--
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Re: oh good by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-21 02:41 · Score: 0

I'm not a big fan of Cinnamon either. I'd rather see KDE take over as the primary DE for Linux.
KDE is a religion.
Mate!
Re: oh good by Grishnakh · 2017-09-21 12:36 · Score: 1

I guess I didn't explain it well enough before: it's the utter domination of Linux by Gnome that I see as harmful, combined with the fact that I *do* find it all that terrible. I think it's a bloated, buggy, half-assed piece of crap that espouses minimalism on an OS where that shouldn't be needed (if you want minimalism, go buy a Mac; Linux is supposed to be an OS for hackers). Worst of all, customization is completely antithetical to the Gnome worldview: some disagree, and they try to make extensions (which Gnome supporters are always pointing to when people complain), but the extensions break every time they make a new release. The entire philosophy of Gnome I find to be repugnant. Their devs have a holier-than-thou attitude that they're experts in UI design, but they can't even make a file picker that shows thumbnails like every other OS and DE out there. But despite the extreme minimalism, the thing is the biggest RAM hog of all DEs, and according to most reports I've read, is noticeably slower than KDE, which people deride as the kitchen-sink DE. Now if Gnome were just one of many options, I wouldn't give two shits about it, just like I don't pay any attention to Enlightenment. But it's not; it utterly dominates the Linux landscape and is considered the standard DE, with all the large distros pushing it hard. Any distros that don't use Gnome are considered insignificant or deviants.
There's also the issue that I think Gtk is a giant turd of a toolkit. I've looked at it, and I have worked significantly with Qt, and Qt is a dream to do GUI development in. Gtk is a nightmare. And there's the issue of API stability: I know of professional projects that have moved from Gtk to Qt specifically because Gtk is so unstable, and keeps deprecating things that non-Gnome users rely on. That doesn't really happen with Qt.
I use LXDE, so I presume I have bad taste. I don't even do it for the low resource usage, I do it because I like the features and the way it looks. It's pretty easy to customize and rather stable.
That's great, and that's something you don't get with Gnome: easy customization, since they hate that. But are you really using LXDE, or the newer LXQt? From what I've read, LXDE is deprecated now as they've moved to Qt.
So, I use it. It also affords me easy entry into the Ubuntu ecosystem and their resources are vast and easily discoverable.
Personally I use Mint KDE, so I have that some "easy entry", but I also feel like a 3rd-class citizen. I'm glad Mint has a KDE variant and puts some work into it, and I'm glad Mint is around at all (all their variants are things that Ubuntu didn't want to bother with after all; the entire Mint distro is a reaction to Ubuntu), but I can't help but feel that Linux would be better off if they weren't constantly re-inventing the wheel, but there's a good reason they do when all the main distros pick and push such a terrible DE for what appear to be entirely political purposes. I actually liked it better when Ubuntu was doing Unity, because at least that kept some of the focus off Gnome, but now for some dumb reason they went to Gnome when it became apparent their Unity strategy wasn't panning out; it would have been much, much easier for them to go with KDE and then make their own custom version of it using the design concepts from Unity.
Finally, I'll end with a car analogy. Instead of today's landscape where there's roughly a dozen major manufacturers (Ford, GM, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota, Subaru, Mazda, BMW, VW, Mercedes, Volvo, Hyundai) and a bunch of minor ones (it's arguable which are major or minor), suppose for some reason things changed so that there was only one major manufacturer, Ford, and everyone else became a small, bit player. Parts for Fords would be ubiquitous and cheap, and it'd be easy to get them serviced, but buying any other car would be a big PITA, with service hard to find, parts hard to find and expensive, etc. Even getting your car registered with the DMV would be a pain because they'd act

The only thing that's dead, is Privacy. by geekmux · 2017-09-20 05:43 · Score: 4, Insightful

"Competing against the likes of Apple and Google on the mobile market has proven to be a death sentence for many platforms..."

No, competing against the ignorant masses who no longer value privacy at all is exactly why this project will fail, especially when the first fucking thing your "privacy-focused" smartphone customers will ask is, "Where's the Facebook app?"

Not only is privacy itself dead, but the demand for privacy is as well. Manufacturers need to wake up to this reality.

Re:The only thing that's dead, is Privacy. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 05:51 · Score: 0

This isn't going to cut it with The Stupids. Apple and Android got that market all sewed up.
Re:The only thing that's dead, is Privacy. by Kjella · 2017-09-20 05:56 · Score: 1

Not only is privacy itself dead, but the demand for privacy is as well. Manufacturers need to wake up to this reality.
Behind 80% of all smartphones is now made by the biggest data mining company of them all, and most on /. seem to think Apple's walled garden is the greater enemy. To use an old saying, with friends like these who needs enemies...

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Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Re:The only thing that's dead, is Privacy. by Thad+Boyd · 2017-09-20 06:10 · Score: 4, Interesting

It's quite clearly a product for a niche audience. Like desktop Linux. There's nothing wrong with that if you can find enough customers within that niche, but there's a definite chicken/egg problem there where most people don't want to give you money until your product is complete, tested, and stable, and you can't get a complete, tested, stable product without an existing market. It's extra daunting to know that even companies with the resources of MS and Canonical couldn't crack the market; smaller companies like Purism really have their work cut out for them.
I think Canonical made a lot of serious mistakes in Ubuntu Touch, and that's a shame, because an alternative to Android and iOS would be nice. I tried installing Ubuntu Touch on my phone a few months back and I was really impressed with the interface and the depth and breadth of available packages, but, uh, it didn't work as a phone. Couldn't call, couldn't text, couldn't connect to my data network; asked for help on the UBports forums and never got a reply. So now I'm on LineageOS without Gapps; no Gapps means missing a lot of compatibility and functionality, but for the most part I haven't had too much trouble.
Re: The only thing that's dead, is Privacy. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 06:22 · Score: 0

Your Ubuntu install was probably trying to connect to the wrong network version. Ubuntu Touch will default to trying 2G. If the carrier does not respond, Ubuntu cannot call/text.
If you go into Mobile options you can manually select 3G or 4G to make sure the phone connects.
Re:The only thing that's dead, is Privacy. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 06:45 · Score: 1

I can function in society without using Android or IOS. All I want in a smart phone is:
1. The ability to make calls
2. The ability to send/receive text messages
3. Web browser
4. Calender/Alarm
5. Contacts
6. Calculator
7. Camera/Image viewer
8. Music player
9. Video player
10. Ebook reader
A Linux based smart phone with a UI and set of apps by GNOME or KDE could do these things. There are no IOS or Android applications that I must have.
Re:The only thing that's dead, is Privacy. by butchersong · 2017-09-20 06:52 · Score: 1

Sadly the choice is largely one of living like this or ditching the smartphone. I've chosen to be one of those sad figures in the crowd but.. I wont defend it as the correct choice.
Re:The only thing that's dead, is Privacy. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 07:22 · Score: 0

If you want to be a hermit, go live out in the woods and build letterbombs. Those of us who actually live in the world understand that functioning in society requires giving up some amount of privacy.
"Some" amount of privacy shows me how ignorant you really are. In the end, just remember you were part of the masses who wanted this shit.
Re:The only thing that's dead, is Privacy. by JohnFen · 2017-09-20 08:00 · Score: 1

Behind 80% of all smartphones is now made by the biggest data mining company of them all, and most on /. seem to think Apple's walled garden is the greater enemy.
I haven't seen anyone making a "greater enemy" argument. You can diss iPhones for being so handcuffed without having to think there's nothing wrong with Android.
Re:The only thing that's dead, is Privacy. by Grishnakh · 2017-09-20 08:42 · Score: 2

You're missing GPS navigation on that list; lots of people including myself rely on that. Not just for driving either; I also use Osmand for hiking and cycling, as I can record my routes, see how fast I was going, etc. But one of the main uses for my smartphone is definitely Google Maps.
What we need is a Linux/KDE-based phone that can run Android apps. Didn't Blackberry do something like this, using their own OS but still making it able to run Android apps?
You're just not going to get much adoption if you try to carve out your own, entirely separate ecosystem: everyone has "that one app" that they rely on, and it's a different app for everyone. And you're just not going to get much adoption anyway without a big corporation running it (Google or Apple), so the best thing to shoot for is a stable position at #3: the underdog alternative for people who don't like the big corporate offerings and want more privacy and control. Making the system reasonably compatible, even if not 100%, with Android apps (like we do with WINE on Linux) is the way to do this.
Re:The only thing that's dead, is Privacy. by Grishnakh · 2017-09-20 08:46 · Score: 1

I don't see the problem in this photo. Standing in line is a complete waste of time, but there's not really a feasible way around it at this time because of the way businesses like that are operated, so if you want to eat there during the peak times, you have to stand in line. Is it really somehow more "noble" to just stand there doing nothing but staring at everyone else in line and tapping your feet, or to do something at least a little more productive or interesting, like communicating with your friends or parents, playing a simple game, reading something online, etc.?
Re:The only thing that's dead, is Privacy. by Grishnakh · 2017-09-20 08:56 · Score: 1

It's quite clearly a product for a niche audience. Like desktop Linux. There's nothing wrong with that if you can find enough customers within that niche, ... even companies with the resources of MS and Canonical couldn't crack the market; smaller companies like Purism really have their work cut out for them.
I'm not very optimistic about Purism, but comparisons to MS I think are problematic. MS had some big problems with their efforts: 1) the biggest is that their reputation pretty much sucks, and their brand has negative value. It's like trying to sell cars with the "Oldsmobile" moniker, only probably worse. 2) the UI on their phones was horribly ugly, and a departure from what people were used to with iOS/Android. 3) They didn't have much app support, and couldn't get devs to make apps for their phones. A comparison to Canonical is much more relevant.
Purism won't have problem #1, as they're an unknown without a bad reputation. #2 is questionable: if they choose/push Gnome, it might not be ugly per se but it's not going to work very well, and personally I wouldn't buy one because I want to use a phone that lets me configure it somewhat instead of assuming I'm an idiot and refusing to allow any configuration, which is the entire philosophy of GNOME. If they go with KDE, it should work well; KDE has done significant work on a mobile-optimized UI before. #3 of course really is a problem (for anyone trying to enter the market); perhaps they can get their OS to run Android apps though, the way Blackberry does.
Re:The only thing that's dead, is Privacy. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 09:38 · Score: 0

> Is it really somehow more "noble" to just stand there doing nothing but staring at everyone
It's certainly a hell of lot better for your posture. 15-20 years they'll have sway backs
Re:The only thing that's dead, is Privacy. by HiThere · 2017-09-20 10:41 · Score: 1

It's possible that for a phone Gnome would be allright. My main objection to it for a computer is that I want to have several widow using applications running at once. (Of course, if I actually tried to use it I might have more objections. It sure doesn't seem to have many fans.)

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I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Re:The only thing that's dead, is Privacy. by Thad+Boyd · 2017-09-20 10:56 · Score: 1

I use GNOME on my HTPC and I think it's a very good UI for that sort of environment (though I would hate using it on my primary desktop). I think it needs some tweaks to be workable on a phone, but it's more suitable for a phone paradigm than a desktop one, IMO.
Re: The only thing that's dead, is Privacy. by Thad+Boyd · 2017-09-20 11:02 · Score: 1

Thanks for the heads-up. I fiddled with the options and IIRC I set it to Sprint LTE, but still couldn't get anything to work. I'm figuring on waiting until they get 16.04 out to try again.
Re:The only thing that's dead, is Privacy. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 12:48 · Score: 0

"Not only is privacy itself dead, but the demand for privacy is as well."
Based on what metric? The 2 dominant companies that sell these OSs for smartphones largely are fighting over the same people and market nowadays with little recent increased market penetration or growth.
And even amongst the population buying those phones, the OSs have moved to more privacy features and more control over app permissions, although Google and Apple usually lie about the extent of that control and it seems easily abused by app writers. There also seems a rather extensive but small community that likes to root their phones to re-establish control over the OS and app permissions.
The indications within the current market is that some of those people want privacy, and the potential for market growth might indicate that people haven't upgrade or bought new phones because fo the lack of privacy, i.e. BB10 holdouts.
Anyways, I for one would buy a Linux phone that gave me more control than Apple does or what Google pretends to. I'm pretty sure I'm not dead, and while the demand of 1 is not much, maybe it's a start.
Re: The only thing that's dead, is Privacy. by KGIII · 2017-09-20 12:54 · Score: 1

I have been using a Windows phone for a long time. It's the only Windows OS that I have, actually.
I have zero apps installed, except those that came by default. I still assume there's some level of monitoring going on, but I have close to what you ask for. Hell, I don't even need some of the items on your list.
I make calls, text, take pictures, email, and browse. That's about it, actually. I don't use GPS on it, as I have dedicated devices and usually know where I'm going. I don't have any additional apps installed because I don't need any more functionality. It is Windows on a phone, so it's not much of a target for exploits and malware.
I do need to replace it. It's getting old and the OS is no longer going to be updated, but the updates came from Microsoft themselves and didn't need carrier involvement. I treat it as a compromised device and do nothing secure on it and have no qualms about wiping it at the slightest provocation.
I know it may sound strange, but I really like it. I'm not even all that worried about the OS being unsupported. I do nothing secure on it, including using a dedicated email address that is unconnected by anything else. At worst, I log into a forum like Slashdot and they could steal my account until I noticed and reset the password.
I dunno... It works for me. The phone is stable and speedy. I'm pretty happy with it. I've had it for years and was pretty surprised by my level of satisfaction. I don't normally use Windows, but this has been pretty good. I do like Microsoft mice and keyboards, but that's another story.

--
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Re: The only thing that's dead, is Privacy. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 17:00 · Score: 0

Please put your money where your mouth is and donate to the Librem 5 campaign (if you haven't already). I don't have a lot right now but I decided it was worth the risks to support a "pure" Linux phone. But while they've raised an impressive amount, they still have a long way to go.
Re:The only thing that's dead, is Privacy. by olau · 2017-09-21 00:28 · Score: 1

GNOME's working fine.
Alt-tab behaviour is still stupid by default and probably will stay that way for a while, but it's one configuration option away to fix it (or an extension, can't remember the details anymore).
The rest works well. The launcher thing is especially nice - I hit the Windows key and type teCtrl+RET to get a terminal, for instance.
Otherwise it's unobtrusive and stays out of the way.
Re:The only thing that's dead, is Privacy. by geekmux · 2017-09-21 01:12 · Score: 1

"Not only is privacy itself dead, but the demand for privacy is as well."

Based on what metric?
Are you kidding me with this? As if rampant narcissism and social media addiction aren't obvious enough indicators? I know about the minute-by-minute details of more people today than I ever have. Where you work, where you eat, when you eat, what you eat, who you see, where you work, who you work with, what your mood is, where you vacation, what you watch on TV, what you listen to, what letter you are in the LGBTQIA alphabet, who you're banging and how. Hell, name something you can't find out about someone through social media. Audio and video recording devices are all but impossible to escape from unless you're willing to move to Alask...oh wait, nevermind. I forgot we film multiple reality shows there now.
And this is true for 99% of of "modern" society. Oversharing is now considered the norm. In fact, truly being private is now considered unacceptable and rude.
Hope that answers your question.
Re:The only thing that's dead, is Privacy. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-22 22:13 · Score: 0

Since recently there is a "wine-but-for-android-apps", see here.
No hardware (virtualization) support needed, so if a phone runs Linux it might use that.
Of course it's not a turnkey/finished solution yet, but a good start.

No more BrianFagioli and BetaNews submissions! by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 05:45 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Slashdot editors, can the "BetaNews" submissions, especially those from "BrianFagioli", please stop ending up on the front page here?

A "BetaNews" submission has been on the front page of Slashdot almost every day during September so far!

Shit, not even a month ago there was the "You Can Help Purism Build the Secure Open Source Linux-based Librem 5 Smartphone" submission, again linking to this "BetaNews" site and again submitted by "BrianFagioli".

This won't happen anyway by v1nce29 · 2017-09-20 05:45 · Score: 1

33% funded in 50% of time. But this will be better funded than ubuntu campaign

Re: This won't happen anyway by KGIII · 2017-09-20 13:06 · Score: 1

Yeah, I suspect that everyone who wanted to help fund it has already done so. They were pleased to announce rapidly getting partial funding, but that appears to have considerably slowed down.
I'd love a real Linux based phone, so long as it was practical and realistic. This project seems like it is neither, though I've voiced that opinion before. So, I didn't fund it, nor will I. I suppose I could be talked into making a donation for such a product, but this is not that product. I'd be inclined to donate to such a product without prepurchasing said product. These are preorders, not donations.
Meh... I'll keep donating to Canonical. Maybe there will be a good hardware vendor who will easily support it.

--
"So long and thanks for all the fish."

Aww, no keyboard? by GameboyRMH · 2017-09-20 05:50 · Score: 1

The only thing better than a new Linux phone would be one with a keyboard. I recently had to retire my N900 for a rooted Droid 4 and I'd like to get back to an actual GNU/Linux OS on a phone with a keyboard. Android feels too much like the bad old days of Windows.

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"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel

Re:Aww, no keyboard? by KiloByte · 2017-09-20 06:04 · Score: 2

Check out Gemini.

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The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Re:Aww, no keyboard? by GameboyRMH · 2017-09-20 06:12 · Score: 1

I've been keeping an eye on that. I'd definitely prefer a landscape slider layout to a clamshell for a phone though.

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"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Re:Aww, no keyboard? by Tough+Love · 2017-09-20 20:27 · Score: 1

I'd definitely prefer a landscape slider layout to a clamshell for a phone though.
Like the Desire Z. Best handset keyboard ever. I still have mine, I still use it, purely because of the keyboard.

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When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.

Guaranteed to fail by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 06:00 · Score: 2, Insightful

People keep trying, like battering their heads against the walls of Jericho, but they will not unseat Google and Apple. The mobile world is utterly dominated by the first-mover advantage, and Google and Apple have a 10-year head start. That's before we even get into the pathetic quality of FOSS operating systems when it comes to UX design consistency and simplicity or even working out of the box, all of which are utterly indispensable in the mobile world. No one wants to use a terminal to unfuck their packages on a tap-to-type keyboard.

If Amazon, Mozilla, and even the evil empire of Microsoft can't do it, why would a bunch of what amounts to nobodies in the mobile world stand a chance?

This stinks of groupthink and unearned optimism.

Re:Guaranteed to fail by JohnFen · 2017-09-20 08:02 · Score: 3, Interesting

I don't care if anyone unseats iPhones and Androids. I'd be perfectly fine with an alternative that is never widely adopted.
Re:Guaranteed to fail by TheDarkener · 2017-09-20 08:54 · Score: 1

I'd be perfectly fine with an alternative that is never widely adopted.
This. Personally I *prefer* that. There may be less adoption but successful attacks on the phone would be nothing compared to iOS/Android.

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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Re:Guaranteed to fail by Seven+Spirals · 2017-09-20 10:00 · Score: 1

This is exactly what I do, also. I use a Symbian phone (an Early Phillips Xenium) that simply doesn't have the ability to run "apps". It doesn't support bluetooth for anything but headsets (but I turn that off anyway). So yeah, like you, I go out of my way to be on an obscure platform nobody cares about. Guess what they did with the phone last time I went through customs? Handed it back saying "We can't read this." Inside I was playing a little violin for Big Brother and cheering for the phone.
Re:Guaranteed to fail by TheDarkener · 2017-09-20 10:31 · Score: 1

"We can't read this" - Sorry if I'm a bit uneducated (I don't travel much) but what exactly does customs do with your phone when inspecting it?

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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Re:Guaranteed to fail by Seven+Spirals · 2017-09-25 08:24 · Score: 1

I'm actually not sure at all. All I know is that, whatever it is they do, they couldn't do it to my ancient Phillips Xenium. I presume they steal your address book to see if you know any "terrorists" and probably try to crack/hack any apps like Telegram they believe might be a juicy pile of ISIS communique.

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2017-09-20 06:01 · Score: 4, Insightful

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Wait. by Thad+Boyd · 2017-09-20 06:02 · Score: 3, Insightful

Wait, didn't they announce last week that they were going with Plasma?

There's certainly nothing wrong with a device that will run either one as the user chooses (I've currently got KDE on my main desktop, GNOME on my HTPC, and XFCE on my laptop), but it seems like picking one to focus on to start with might be a good idea.

Re:Wait. by Rob+Y. · 2017-09-20 08:11 · Score: 1

Doesn't KDE/Plasma have much of the UI/touch interface stuff in place from back when QT was owned by Nokia and Meego was based on it?
If so, why isn't somebody making a tablet with a detachable keyboard instead of trying to compete with iOS and Android? That would at least be a unique category of device - and if they at least did the browser really well, it could find a niche much like Chromebooks did. Of course, now that Android apps are coming to Chromebooks...

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Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
Re: Wait. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-22 08:41 · Score: 0

Purism has a detachable device the librem11.

Mobile version of XFCE? by TheOuterLinux · 2017-09-20 06:02 · Score: 1

Would anyone else would be happier with a simple Whisker Menu and an XFCE panel at the top? You'd drag your finger down from the top for the Whisker Menu and double tap the home button for application switching. Triple tap for a file manager. The important stuff could just be shortcuts on the "phonetop." Keyboard shortcuts as phone button shortcuts would be really awesome. Double tap volume for a terminal. I want to know what login/desktop manager (lightdm, gdm, etc.) they plan on using, if any. How is power preservation going to work? Idiot me would try Xscreensaver because lightdm doesn't play nice with MacBooks and I really don't expect it to with phones either.

Re:Mobile version of XFCE? by JohnFen · 2017-09-20 08:04 · Score: 1

I would. I strongly dislike Gnome.
Re:Mobile version of XFCE? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-21 06:23 · Score: 0

Yeah, same here. In fact, if Gnome is the UI shipped on this phone, I'm no longer interested.
And that's before we even discuss whether Gnome means the phone will be infested with systemd.
Re:Mobile version of XFCE? by TheOuterLinux · 2017-09-23 11:27 · Score: 1

Last I checked, it was going to ship with a Purism version of KDE.

no Purism for me then by KiloByte · 2017-09-20 06:03 · Score: 3, Insightful

If it has GNOME on it, no thanks. I have yet to see any sane person to voluntarily choose GNOME for anything; this includes distributions.

For the latter, you have Ubuntu. Most others merely used sort-of usable Gnome 2 then had it mutate into a monstrosity into then.

In Debian, Joey Hess switched us to XFCE but then got overruled by a "rational choice" with a score sheet which looks just like a case of government procurement: requirements tailored towards a specific choice with scoring that's in some cases reversed compared to what anyone without an agenda would pick: for example, "systemd integration" gives +1 -- ie, a desktop environment that is universal and works with any init gets negative score while something systemd-only gets +1 just for that. No score for "media size" despite the promoted answer being massively bloated. A whole -1 for "tasksel quality" which anyone who has seen that DE can make perfect within minutes. And the biggest gem? As of Jessie, GNOME worked on only two architectures (amd64 and i386) at all -- out of 11 primary 12 secondary archs. Even on x86, it suffers from dog-slow software emulation if you try to run it in a VM or anything that has one of supported GPUs. So did GNOME get a RC bug that keeps it from Jessie at all? Meh...

And this doesn't even mention the oh so insignificant question about basic usability and ergonomy. GNOME beats even Win8.0-era Metro in obstructing simplest tasks.

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The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

Re:no Purism for me then by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 06:16 · Score: 0

I'm sane and 52. SINCE SLACKWARE 1.0, BITCH!
Re:no Purism for me then by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 06:27 · Score: 0

That's a long time to stay 52. I'm calling BS on your claim to sanity.
Re:no Purism for me then by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 06:28 · Score: 0

This score sheet is pure comedy gold. You'd think that the appropriate way to pick a desktop environment would be to try them to see how well they work in Debian. The set of criteria that were picked seems arbitrary. I'm seriously starting to think that Debian is being deliberately sabotaged by the members of its technical committee that happen to be employees of a company that makes another well known Linux distribution.
Re:no Purism for me then by brickhouse98 · 2017-09-20 08:17 · Score: 1

Yes, because your opinion is gold. I find Gnome 3's workflow waaaay more useful and intuitive than KDE. I think I'm still sane.
Re:no Purism for me then by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 08:35 · Score: 0

IIRC, there's at least one Debian core (or who maintains some important packages) developer who works for Red Hat...
Plus, during the fierce debate on the Debian developer mailing and tech committee list, it was known that the Debian gnome package maintainers were giving updates to gnome foundation execs, possibly receiving instructions to post counter arguments to those lists. Everyone knows who is in control of gnome, right?
Re:no Purism for me then by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 08:56 · Score: 0

You're not. GNOME is held up as an example of how _not_ to do in HCI-circles. Its actually considered so bad it's used for comical effect.
Re:no Purism for me then by Grishnakh · 2017-09-20 09:17 · Score: 1

I have yet to see any sane person to voluntarily choose GNOME for anything; this includes distributions.
I have to disagree with this. Your criticism of Debian's selection process aside, that is a large project with many members, not just a single dictator, and they collectively made that decision. Canonical recently switched back to Gnome3. Most distros feature it as their main DE, and either half-ass or completely ignore anything else.
Why it's like this, I don't really know, but it shows that typical Linux distros are not really OSes meant for "hackers" or technical people, as GNOME 3 is specifically designed for beginners with a philosophy of complete minimalism and a complete lack of configurability. Any time I'm reading discussions by actual Linux users, Gnome3 is indeed the most popular choice, and when asked about KDE, most Linux users whine that "I don't want to have to mess around with configuration menus!"
Yes, you're right, Gnome beats even Win8 Metro in obstructing the simplest tasks, but most Linux users have drunk the kool-aid and have happily adopted it anyway, somehow rationalizing their choice.
I do expect Purism to settle on Gnome3 for this phone, and for it to be a clunky, slow monstrosity.
Re:no Purism for me then by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 10:07 · Score: 0

The phone will run a mainline kernel with FOSS drivers. It will be as easy to install other distros and desktops as it is on a well supported laptop/desktop.
The default OS will be Purism's own PureOS (described on the crowdfunding page). But they are also partnering with both KDE and GNOME, so that there will be multiple well supported options.
Re:no Purism for me then by olau · 2017-09-21 00:43 · Score: 1

Well, it's pretty minimalistic, it gets out of the way. I can run my terminals and Emacs and a browser. What more do you want?
Yes, a couple of the defaults are annoying, but you can change them. There's a big set of extensions.
You should give it a try, maybe you'd be surprised.
Re:no Purism for me then by Grishnakh · 2017-09-21 00:57 · Score: 1

I want something I can configure to be the way I want. No, I will not use extensions; extensions break every time they release a new version; that's very well-documented. I've used Gnome3. It's a complete piece of shit.

Too bad GNOME entangled with systemd by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 06:07 · Score: 0

I probably don't want software from the lamest vendor on my privacy focused smartphone.

Worth Looking At But Unlikely... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 06:09 · Score: 0

Like Windows phones, this has some good points (and a few bad ones). But with most of the market being Android with the remainder Apple, it really doesn't have a chance. Principal point: how is any carrier going to make money without harvesting and selling user data?

BTW, Windows wasn't really a bad platform, in the 8.1 era. 10 didn't really add much to the platform other than hardware requirements. 8.1 actually runs most of the useful apps (granted, a very small number there) in the Store, but in 1/2 the RAM of 10. MS frankly would have been better off doing an 8.2 for ARM (with the security bits of 10) and leaving it there rather than trying to cram the bloat of a full version of 10 into it. But by the time 10 came out WinPhones were already a footnote in the market - again, not enough spyware in it to keep the carriers and advertisers happy.

What we need is actual unlocked phones that can run multiple OS's without having to physically change a ROM or the like. Can't so that now - an Android or Apple or Windows phone is locked to that OS by the hardware (and possibly even more tightly by the carrier). If the *phone* could boot multiple OS's then it would reasonable to try something like this with an old beater, to keep as a spare or burner.

Finally! by Gravis+Zero · 2017-09-20 06:11 · Score: 1

Just what everyone was waiting for: Systemd on the go! ;)

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Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.

Re:Finally! by zdzichu · 2017-09-20 06:16 · Score: 1

You seem to have missed Jolla phone. Systemd, btrfs, wayland, shipped couple years ago.

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:wq
Re:Finally! by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 07:04 · Score: 0

And those claims to fame are whot sunk it. Add the packaging format and what happened to maemo after the intel 'joint venture' new-and-improved it. It didn't stand a chance.
Re:Finally! by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 12:07 · Score: 0

Poetteringware for the pocket.

+1 Insightful by mccrew · 2017-09-20 06:32 · Score: 1

Wish I had more mod points for you. I had a good chuckle at "No one wants to use a terminal to unfuck their packages on a tap-to-type keyboard."

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Hey, Windows users, there is no such thing as "forward" slash, there is only slash and backslash.

No purism for me either by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 06:41 · Score: 0

I'm not surprised that since they picked systemd in the first place (on fscked-up grounds) they'd do the same thing again and +1 everything with a systemd dependency.

The sabotage charge should be relatively easy to substantiate with a little "open source intelligence".

Why purism would want to commit suicide before they've good and well started is a little beyond me, though. Either they're really that stupid, or they have an agenda; either way, they deserve to go under. Even though it yet again leaves us bereft of an open source mobile phone. I'm starting to think that's deliberate too.

Re:No purism for me either by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 07:22 · Score: 0

Why purism would want to commit suicide before they've good and well started is a little beyond me, though. Either they're really that stupid, or they have an agenda
One plausible agenda that would fit the evidence is the following: Perhaps Purism isn't really interested in the computer hardware/security geek demographic. Instead, it is possible that Purism may be appealing to the computer hardware/security geek demographic only to build publicity, but once they achieve the desired level of publicity, they plan to abandon the geek demographic and to market their products to the general public.
The announcement that they're partnering with GNOME is certainly generating publicity, regardless of whether anything will come from the partnership.
Re:No purism for me either by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 07:50 · Score: 0

Maybe they're just building enthusiasm for an upcoming Kickstarter? In that scenario, they would want to collect a few million dollars to build their cell phone. Given the amount of money and R&D needed to develop Android and Apple cell phones, they can probably throw in a commitment to put humans on Mars too. It won't have any impact on their chances of completing their main project.
Re:No purism for me either by Grishnakh · 2017-09-20 09:21 · Score: 1

Either they're really that stupid, or they have an agenda
"Never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence".
I think it's most likely they really are that stupid.
Even though it yet again leaves us bereft of an open source mobile phone. I'm starting to think that's deliberate too.
Again, apply Hanlon's Razor. It's probably because everyone else who tried made stupid mistakes, which is the same reason MS became dominant on the desktop ages ago: their competitors were idiots. This reminds me of another adage: "When hiking, if you're attacked by a bear, you don't have to outrun the bear. You just have to outrun the slowest hiker in your group."

Ubuntu by Major+Blud · 2017-09-20 06:57 · Score: 1

Purism has found itself a new partner on this project -- one of the most important organizations in the Linux community -- The GNOME Foundation

Ubuntu is also one of the most important organizations in the Linux community. How did that work out for them?
http://www.techradar.com/news/...

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If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.

Purism's horrible lack of diversity by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 07:00 · Score: 0

Core team is all male, mostly of the White variety. Board of directors is a little more diverse with 2 POC males (no blacks, tho), 2 middle aged white guys, and 3 white females. The advisory board has 3 white guys and a blurry white female. Not sure if about the LGBTQIAD make up of the company, though noted douchebag Matthew Garrett is on the advisory board.

No problem really. by aliquis · 2017-09-20 07:23 · Score: 1

Browser and my bankid application and Steam mobile authentication is what I need I guess.

if it could run Android APKs and have something like Samsung health then that's also good.

Maybe things like camera will be complete garbage though, both in hardware and software side?

Re:No problem really. by JohnFen · 2017-09-20 08:07 · Score: 1

Personally, I couldn't care less about the camera. I never use the camera. But if it can't make/receive phone calls and texts, it's pretty much a nonstarter.

Fight to the death by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 07:29 · Score: 0

“We will be working with both GNOME/GTK and KDE/Plasma communities, and have partnered with the foundations behind them for the middleware layer. PureOS currently is GNOME-based and our great experience with working with GNOME as an upstream as well as GNOME’s OS and design-centric development model; however we will also test, support, and develop with KDE and the KDE community, and of course we will support Qt for application development. We will continue to test GNOME and Plasma, and should have a final direction within a month after funding success. Whatever is chosen, Purism will be working with both communities in an upstream-first fashion.”

KDE has got to be crazy for partnering with these guys since its pretty clear judging from the members of the core team and advisory board that GNOME will win out no matter what.

Nice by XSportSeeker · 2017-09-20 07:33 · Score: 2

I don't need a linux based privacy focused smartphone to compete with iOS or Android... it just needs to be there and serve as an option.
But it needs to have real products at competitive prices and fully working on the market.

Doesn't even need to be for an end consumer, but a fully functional option for businesses and enterprise.

Re:Nice by Gavagai80 · 2017-09-20 08:37 · Score: 1

But it needs to have real products at competitive prices and fully working on the market.
Can the price of a privacy-oriented phone ever be competitive with a phone that's subsidized by selling your personal info?

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Re:Nice by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-21 01:29 · Score: 0

...Doesn't even need to be for an end consumer, but a fully functional option for businesses and enterprise.
We had that. It was called a Blackberry. We could even order them without cameras to comply with our physical security needs.
Then, Millennials walked in the corporate door bringing their social media addiction, and proceeded to redefine "fully functional" for business and enterprise.

Lost credibility by JohnFen · 2017-09-20 08:11 · Score: 1

From TFA:

Luckily, Purism has found itself a new partner on this project -- one of the most important organizations in the Linux community -- The GNOME Foundation. Yes, the maker of the absolute best desktop environment is offering to assist with the Librem 5

There's no quicker way of losing all credibility than proclaiming that Gnome is the "absolute best desktop environment". That tells me the article is a hamfisted sales pitch and nothing else it has to say can be trusted.

Yeah, they're resurrecting OpenMoko by halfdan+the+black · 2017-09-20 09:09 · Score: 1

Let's go muzzle to muzzle against Android and iOS with OpenMoko, yeah, good luck with that. Openmoku was a joke 10 years ago, don't see why it's any different this time. What's the point, Android is open source, don't like it, fork and change it. Instead, they're trying thus again https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...

Re:Slashdot, clear this up by BatesMethod · 2017-09-20 09:11 · Score: 2

News from last week:

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/09/kde-plasma-mobile-coming-purism-librem-5

Purism is the company that is defrauding thousands by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 13:15 · Score: 0

What blows my mind is people aren't aware of Purism or Todd's roots. The company was founded on the supposed principled of libre software. The name stems from being pure. Yet Todd's very first laptop was based around chipsets that were dependent on proprietary software. He's a scam artist that's basically getting great minds on board with ideas and promising the world when he knowingly can't achieve the end results he's promising. How did Todd plan to get the code from Intel? Well, he went to an Intel Summit and asked a sales guy for the code. The guy looked at him funny and didn't have a clue what he was talking about. Todd edged him further and the guy said something like "That might be possible". Todd returns saying he has the cooperation of Intel to releasing code knowing fully well that Intel wouldn't and couldn't release the code. He only removed the NVIDIA graphics drivers after being mocked by the free software community for being so arrogant as to think he could get NVIDIA to release free drivers when not even China could do it. 250 laptops isn't even a small manufacturing run and yet this laptop he was promising to being 100% libre in the beginning. He also said it would be the first 100% libre laptop in spite of the fact there were already much freer (and still are) laptops on the market.

release a pocketable tablet first by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 16:34 · Score: 0

You might sidestep a lot of patent and perhaps legal issues by making a nice, fast but affordable pocketable linux tablet quickly first, which would be great in itself, and might help keep momentum and interest going while giving people something physical to buy and experiment on with the gui.

Hopefully focus on powerusers by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-20 20:51 · Score: 0

I never forget how easy it was on my Nokia 770 (with Debian GNU Linux based) Maemo to pull some source for some x-windows application, compile it, and run it.

I don't want a browserphone (firefox"os"), don't want some fancy new ui (Ubuntu phone)... i want simply linux with X11 on that thing! If this phone cannot it, it's useless.

Re:Hopefully focus on powerusers by JohnFen · 2017-09-21 03:56 · Score: 1

i want simply linux with X11 on that thing!
Man, that would be awesome.

Slashdot Mirror

GNOME Partners With Purism On Librem 5 Linux-based Privacy-focused Smartphone (betanews.com)

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