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Four Automakers Team Up To Create an Electric Car Charging Network Across Europe (theverge.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the across-the-universe dept.

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Verge: A group of automakers has created a new company to build a network of 400 fast chargers across Europe ahead of the wave of new electric cars they've promised in the next few years, as countries push EVs as a way to meet emissions goals. Ionity, announced Friday by BMW Group, Daimler AG, Ford Motor Company and the Volkswagen Group, will install a network of 400 high-power EV chargers across Europe by 2020. There are already 20 chargers under the Ionity network that are being installed this year in Germany, Austria, and Norway at 75-mile intervals, the companies said. Those chargers would also be maintained through partnerships with stores such as Tank & Rast, Circle K, and OMV. Such a network is also necessary to compete with the efforts from Tesla's Supercharger network, which is now 7,000 strong worldwide. It uses the company's own connector and started a major European expansion three years ago. To that, Ionity has invited other companies to join the venture in which the four initial automakers have an equal share.

62 comments

  1. Good idea. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Of course no one here in the USA will do this and insist on their own standards. Once again Europe will leapfrog in common sense.

    1. Re: Good idea. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good time to figure out how to make adapter cables. Preferably ones that don't melt or require active components.

    2. Re: Good idea. by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      Let's ask Apple, they seem to be in love with adapters.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    3. Re: Good idea. by Agripa · · Score: 1

      Good time to figure out how to make adapter cables. Preferably ones that don't melt or require active components.

      Is it legal to defeat the DRM?

  2. Just sayin... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    https://www.tesla.com/findus?n...

    Anon because I'm in the biz.

    1. Re:Just sayin... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, and if I drew a 10,000 square mile icon over every siberian tiger it'd look like there were plenty of those, too.

    2. Re:Just sayin... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Zoom in a bit.
      The chargers are few and far between. If you don't live in a major city chances are that you don't have a charger nearby.

      With that said, there are a lot more chargers than what is shown on that map. I doesn't show any in the town where I live and pass several on my way to work.

    3. Re:Just sayin... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The high speed charging networks are NOT designed for day-to-day charging, but to assist in long-distance travel. Tesla's network kicks the crap out of their plans and it already exists, not "coming in the next few years".

    4. Re:Just sayin... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tesla's network kicks the crap out of their plans

      Charging at up to 120kW with one specific car brand is so much better than up to 350kW with any electric car, because Tesla.

      it already exists, not "coming in the next few years".

      That's rich when defending a company that has made a habit of blurring the line between extremely optimistic planning announcements and outright lies. You also seem to have missed the part where Ionity have already opened a number of charging stations.

  3. I haz an idea by Snotnose · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Howzabout an electric car charging network across my apartment complex.

    1. Re:I haz an idea by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      You don't have one yet? That is already quite common in Europe. I'd have an electric car too if I can afford it and I live in an apartment without a garage. I'd just park on the street and fill up on one of the street posts.

      In some cities if you show your address, and your car registration the council will install a charging point in your street. In some cities you'll even end up with dedicated reserved parking that way (I know someone who doesn't give a shit about the environment and only got an electric car for this reason).

  4. 75 miles? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    75 miles doesn't sound right. Did Ford spend extra money to get rid of standard units?

    1. Re:75 miles? by iggymanz · · Score: 0

      UK still uses miles on road signs. Those countries where people talk NOTENGLISH use those frogger units

    2. Re:75 miles? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Miles are commonly used in Europe, but it follows the same rule as all other Imperial units.
      The US being a former colony uses British miles. Non-colonies uses their own mile.
      The Dutch mile is close to 5 km, a Polish mile is slightly more than 7 km.

      International trade was pretty problematic when everyone used inches and pounds and the inches and pounds were different in every country.
      That every little insecure king/aspiring emperor wanted to make his foot the national reference also made things problematic.

      If you ever go to Scandinavia roadsigns will be in km but people will give you direction in Scandinavian miles that aren't the same length as British miles.
      When they say "Follow the road for about 25 miles.", expect to be on the road for a couple of hours.

    3. Re:75 miles? by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      And on a fortnight hike across the UK a couple of years ago, I encountered this one:
      http://www.alamy.com/stock-pho...

    4. Re: 75 miles? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have never encountered a mile anywhere in continental Europe. Kilometres are used exclusively as far as I can tell.

    5. Re:75 miles? by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      furlongs are greek stadions and the English call those "stades" and "stadiums" too, give those english unit renamers a barleycorn and they'll take a league

  5. Yet Another Connector 8-( by Ken+McE · · Score: 0

    There are already at least four different electric car plugs, so now they want to come out with number five? Spare me...

    1. Re:Yet Another Connector 8-( by whoever57 · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, they are using CCS.
      https://electrek.co/2017/11/03...

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    2. Re:Yet Another Connector 8-( by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      so now they want to come out with number five?

      No they don't.

      Spare me...

      If you want to be spared read a book, learn to research instead of just spouting off uneducated garbage. Until then you won't be spared. You will be ridiculed for your ignorance.

    3. Re:Yet Another Connector 8-( by SmilingBoy · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, at least in Europe, there are only three standards for fast charging. One of which is a proprietary solution by Tesla (which is unlikely to support charging currents much higher than the current 250 A as the pins are relatively small), the other is CCS2, the standard most companies are/will be using with available designs up to 1000 V and 500 A, and then there is CHAdeMO, which is used by Japanese makes. I am pretty sure that CHAdeMO will disappear in a few years (as you need a second charging port for AC whereas with a CCS inlet, you have a combined AC/DC port), and it would also make sense for Tesla to switch to CCS2 as it would be physically compatible with their current plug, and just require two additional pins.

      So I think in 5 years, most or all cars sold in Europe will have the CCS2 port.

    4. Re:Yet Another Connector 8-( by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      Damn, and to think of all the time I've wasted learning CSS3...

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    5. Re:Yet Another Connector 8-( by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair, TFA's wording is sloppy and easy to misunderstand:

      Such a network is also necessary to compete with the efforts from Tesla’s Supercharger network, which is now 7,000 strong worldwide. It [what is "it"? the Euro network or the Tesla network?] uses the[which?] company’s own connector and started a major European expansion three years ago. To that[to what?? that's not even], Ionity has invited other companies to join the venture in which the four initial automakers have an equal share.

  6. Charging networks are crucial for EV in Europe by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Lots of folks in Europe live, like I do, in an inner city. I am now privileged, and have an apartment with a garage, but for most folks, they just park their cars on the street, and have no method of charging there.

    As an ideal . . . I would like to see EV charging stations to be like gas stations are now: You can stop anywhere and tank up, and just pick a station that has a reasonable price. No proprietary connectors.

    When we have that . . . we're there :-)

    I walk or take public transportation most of the time, so it is sort of a moot point for me.

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    1. Re:Charging networks are crucial for EV in Europe by Kjella · · Score: 1

      As an ideal... I would like to see EV charging stations to be like gas stations are now: You can stop anywhere and tank up, and just pick a station that has a reasonable price. No proprietary connectors.

      I think it's unlikely that they'll find some super-rapid charging that's healthy for the battery. Here in Norway it's my impression that they're trying to kill off permanent street parking, like either you have a parking garage/lot for the apartment/office building or it's intended for shoppers and visitors with a maximum of three hours or they've taken them for bus/tram/bike paths. There's zone parking in some areas for residents because the buildings have no garages, but generally not when they're developing new areas. Most commuter cars occupy one parking spot in the general vicinity every night, it's just that right now there's no big incentive to make sure it's the exact same spot. I'm pretty sure that if we work out the other issues we'll adjust to having more permanent parking.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    2. Re:Charging networks are crucial for EV in Europe by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 0

      Well, of course, that is the same reason they want us to go to electric cars. If you cannot afford to have your own garage, you should not have your own car. That is the whole point of most "AGW solutions", only the elites should be able to travel freely.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    3. Re:Charging networks are crucial for EV in Europe by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Lots of folks in Europe live, like I do, in an inner city. I am now privileged, and have an apartment with a garage, but for most folks, they just park their cars on the street, and have no method of charging there.

      I live in Europe in the inner city. There are 3 charging points in my street alone and the number keep increasing every year.

      As an ideal . . . I would like to see EV charging stations to be like gas stations are now: You can stop anywhere and tank up, and just pick a station that has a reasonable price. No proprietary connectors.

      NO! That is a horrible waste of time idea that serves only to fit EVs to an outdated model of having to "fill up" a car while at the same time creating incredibly difficult to solve problems for the energy grid. Cars should be fully ready to go when you get in them. The only reason you should have to fill up on the go is for an international road trip.

      These companies know this as well. The 400 charging stations won't be in any city but rather on major interstate and international highway routes.

      I walk or take public transportation most of the time, so it is sort of a moot point for me.

      My brother does too, he doesn't own a car but subscribes to a car sharing service. All the more reason that cars on the side of the road should be ready to go with a full tank at all times.

    4. Re:Charging networks are crucial for EV in Europe by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I may seem naive, but where do you live?

      I actually have driven an electric car for over a year now and still don't have a charger in my parking space at home. I drive into the city and while I'm at work or meetings or coffee shops, I charge on the street because there are charger spaces pretty much all over the place. Of course, there are days where the free charging spaces (free for slow charge, $40 a year for 16amp) are taken, so I might either choose to park in a garage where I can use a 22amp charger for about 0.08 USD per minute, or I may stop at the gas station and fast charge (50 amp DC charger) for about 0.20 USD a minute.

      When driving on the highway, I stop at gas stations along the way where in some locations there are only two or three fast chargers, but often there are 4-10 fast chargers available from multiple different power companies (which is good because I hate one of them).

      I could drive all through Norway, Sweden and Denmark (at least on the highways) without ever fearing running out of battery and I'm driving a car with a 100km highway range.

      Are there still 3rd world countries out there which haven't adapted to the 21st century?

    5. Re:Charging networks are crucial for EV in Europe by MrL0G1C · · Score: 1

      Car chargers should be more common than streetlights and indeed streetlights could double up and have a couple of chargers. 400 stations in Europe is a joke, lip service, marketing, there are over 8000 Petrol (Gas) stations in the UK alone, What Europe needs is literally tens of millions of chargers, not 400.

      --
      Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
    6. Re:Charging networks are crucial for EV in Europe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NO! That is a horrible waste of time idea that serves only to fit EVs to an outdated model of having to "fill up" a car while at the same time creating incredibly difficult to solve problems for the energy grid. Cars should be fully ready to go when you get in them. The only reason you should have to fill up on the go is for an international road trip.

      This.

      People seem to think in terms of how gas driven cars work rather than what you really want.
      No-one wants to take a detour to fill up their car, the ideal would be to not have to do it at all.
      The second best option is to have it being filled up while you are parking.

      For over-night charging you don't really need that much current. Installing a charger for that in you home isn't really a problem.
      People living in apartments that parks on the street will have a bit of a problem, but in those cases there are often old street lights around. Switching them over to their LED counterpart will mean that the cabling have extra capacity for charging vehicles.

      Fast charging is only really needed at parking places outside of stores and along the roadside.
      At stores it should be a selling point for the store to build fast chargers. They might even provide the electricity for free just to get customers.

      Along the roadside there is no point in making large charging stations the way fueling stations are made.
      They need a large underground tank so it is convenient to put multiple fueling station at the same place to make refilling of the tank efficient.
      For EV there is no real point to it. You need to run a cable to the charging station anyway, so you just run it along the road and wherever there is a travel stop / roadside rest area you put an outlet. It's better to spread them out than to have them grouped together.

      Simply put: We need to get out of the mindset about how we do things with gas driven vehicles. EVs have different limitation and possibilities.

    7. Re:Charging networks are crucial for EV in Europe by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Fast charging is only half the problem. Countries that are serious about this are putting in huge numbers of slow chargers in residential areas, car parks and at retail locations.

      Most areas already have infrastructure for street lighting, they just need the chargers installing. The chargers are little more than sockets in a lamp post or on a pole.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    8. Re:Charging networks are crucial for EV in Europe by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      Most areas already have infrastructure for street lighting, they just need the chargers installing.

      A city will pay to light the streets. They won't pay to charge your car. The charging stations need a billing system.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    9. Re:Charging networks are crucial for EV in Europe by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      This is a solved problem. Some networks have a system where you plug in and get 15 minutes grace, and in that time you scan a QR code with an app to confirm the charge and pay for it.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    10. Re:Charging networks are crucial for EV in Europe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lots of folks in Europe live, like I do, in an inner city. I am now privileged, and have an apartment with a garage, but for most folks, they just park their cars on the street, and have no method of charging there.

      Ubitricity has a pretty good solution that "Fully Charged" featured a few months back:

      * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKaEhBjt1ls

      Street light poles can be altered for seemingly not a lot of money, and you can plug in anywhere and your account gets charged with you pull power (comms of GSM). The cable locks on both ends so people can't unplug it.

    11. Re:Charging networks are crucial for EV in Europe by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      It's refreshing to see good old-fashioned sneering Scandinavian superiority. Although it was amusing watching you suddenly turn your coats and become temporarily and bafflingly pro-American back when Trump was going to withdraw us from NATO. Good to see everything is back to normal now.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    12. Re: Charging networks are crucial for EV in Europe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When cars were new, there weren't 8000 filling stations in the UK.

      There are lots of petrol and diesel vehicles, so you need enough to cope with demand in total, and often at peak times there are queues. For electric vehicles that are still relatively rare and mostly charge up slowly, off peak, it wouldn't make economic sense to create tens of thousands of fast chargers now.

    13. Re: Charging networks are crucial for EV in Europe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I could see this being unpopular for people with a street light outside their house, especially in areas with narrow roads, as residents might lose their parking spots (e.g. many parts of London). This would have to be handled carefully, and is probably not workable as the only solution, which will mean some expensive retrofits in old Victorian period roads.

  7. never happen in the u.s. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    greed would have the automakers build exclusive, branded networks that only works with their vehicles. cuz, competition is for the wussy europeans not for american capitalist oligarchy.

    1. Re:never happen in the u.s. by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      and yet, companies like Tesla build an open arch. network in America, Europe, and major parts of Asia.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    2. Re:never happen in the u.s. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, because those countries are capitalist with competition. At home in the US you need to cry some more, and then your daddy government will give you a monopoly and stop all your competitors trying to compete with you.

    3. Re:never happen in the u.s. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tesla's network is not open architecture. Its chargers are designed to only work with Tesla cars. I.e., exactly what GP claimed.

    4. Re: never happen in the u.s. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong. There are adapters and Tesla is open architecture in that other car makers can jump on it. Rivian would be smart to go Tesla route

    5. Re: never happen in the u.s. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong. There are adapters

      Cool! Where can I buy an adapter that will allow me to charge a car from another brand at a Tesla supercharger? Tesla doesn't seem to sell them.

      and Tesla is open architecture in that other car makers can jump on it.

      Why would a car maker use Tesla's proprietary crap rather than the industry standard that also happens to be technically superior?

  8. Re:how nice of ford by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

    Ford declined the bailout that GM and Chrysler received because they had gotten their house in good enough order before things went bad to survive without it.
    Ford did not receive any of the bailout loans, so, as far as I am aware, they do not owe the federal government anything.

    --
    The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
  9. 400 charging stations for all of Europe? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

    So, 400 charging stations for all of Europe is supposed to impress me? That is a drop in the bucket to what it would take to make them not annoyingly inconvenient to find.

    --
    The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    1. Re:400 charging stations for all of Europe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What, you mean 400 charging stations versus 130,000 petrol stations - meaning something on the order of 0.01% of the total capacity in terms of fillups per hour - is ridiculously insufficient to sustain the electric car revolution that we're forever told is imminent?

    2. Re:400 charging stations for all of Europe? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      That is a drop in the bucket to what it would take to make them not annoyingly inconvenient to find.

      Why would you be trying to find them? Your car will be fully charged at home. The only reason you would use one of these 400 stations is so you can drive internationally across Europe in an EV. You won't need to find them, they will all be highway stop locations.

      So, 400 charging stations for all of Europe is supposed to impress me?

      At the end of this you will be able to drive your EV from South of Spain to the north of Finland without range anxiety. If you're not impressed then maybe up your dose on the anti-depressants.

    3. Re: 400 charging stations for all of Europe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Europe is 10 million square kilometers, if you divide that into 400 equal pieces you get 158x158 km squares. 158 km is not narrow enough to squelch range anxiety. (But given that there are already existing chargers it might; you'd just be annoyed when you can't reach the network you are on and need to pay some extra money)

    4. Re:400 charging stations for all of Europe? by SmilingBoy · · Score: 1

      These are super fast charging station located on motorway stops primarily to be used on long-distance drives by cars that can charge with 350 kW (i.e. only cars with a very large battery of at least 150 kWh).

      Europe has around 80,000 km of motorways. 400 stations would mean one station every 200 km. The company claims that it would put one station every 120 km. Given that many motorways are short and only used for local traffic, I think their claim is probably correct when only considering motorways used for long-distance driving.

      Clearly, this is not enough when a large proportion of cars are electric. But the aim is to remove a hold-up problem for electric cars - many people currently do not buy electric cars because there are not enough fast charging stations, but because there are not many electric cars, there is no incentive for (unrelated) companies to build fast chargers.

      Tesla has shown how to do it, and the concept tries to emulate the super charger network in a way, albeit at higher speeds.

  10. Re: how nice of ford by WindBourne · · Score: 0

    They got 22 billion no-interest loan.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  11. Business idea... by VeryFluffyBunny · · Score: 1

    You know how Mac users have to pay outrageous prices for all kinds of adaptors and dongles to get their gear to work with "normal" stuff like TVs, projectors, chargers, and HiFi docs? Well how about outrageously priced adaptors so Teslas can use other EV chargers and vice versa?

    --
    Debate is a form of harassment. Do not question my truth.
    1. Re:Business idea... by steveha · · Score: 3, Informative

      how about outrageously priced adaptors so Teslas can use other EV chargers

      The most common EV charger is SAE J1772 standard. A Tesla comes with an adapter to charge at a J1772 charger. It costs $95 to replace.

      https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product/vehicle-accessories/model-s_x_3-sae-j1772-charging-adapter.html?sku=1067348-00-A

      Teslas also come with an adapter kit that allows charging from 120 Volt or 240 Volt outlets. $550 to replace it.

      https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product/vehicle-accessories/model-s_x-mobile-connector-bundle.html?sku=1025821-00-G

      Tesla also has a CHAdeMO adapter. $450 to buy one.

      https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product/vehicle-accessories/model-s_x-chademo-adapter.html?sku=1036392-10-D

      A Tesla can charge pretty much anywhere with adapters.

      --
      lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
    2. Re:Business idea... by VeryFluffyBunny · · Score: 2

      All your comment proves is that I'm a lousy business innovator. Maybe I should be a startup app developer instead?

      --
      Debate is a form of harassment. Do not question my truth.
  12. Obligatory by pr0t0 · · Score: 1

    https://xkcd.com/927/

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    I'm sorry, but your opinion seems to be wrong.
  13. Re:how nice of ford by thegarbz · · Score: 1

    Not your government. But right at the time when the Americans were bailing out the car companies Ford went to the Australian government for a handout threatening the closure of it's last manufacturing plant. It got it too to the tune of several billion AUD. ... And then proceeded to close the factory anyway.

    Fuck them along with the other leeches.

  14. windbourn's alternate facts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You have to forgive windbourn he believes in alternate facts. If he can't find the facts he likes, he can make some for you while you wait.

    1. Re:windbourn's alternate facts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Ford's Bailout

      Although Ford did not receive TARP funds, it did receive government loans. These were critical because banks were not lending during the financial crisis. It requested a $9 billion line-of-credit from the government.....
      On June 23, 2009, Ford received a $5.9 billion loan from the Energy Department's Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing program. In return, it pledged to accelerate development of both hybrid and battery-powered vehicles, close dealerships and sell Volvo.....
      The Congressional Research Service estimated the loans saved 33,000 jobs. Ford will repay this loan by 2022....
      Ford says it was in better shape than the other two because it had mortgaged its assets in 2006 to raise $23.6 billion.

  15. How about common charging standard? by MtViewGuy · · Score: 1

    I think in the end, all the electric car manufacturers should agree on a _single_ AC and DC charging standard. That way, everyone won't have to hunt around for a charging station--especially DC charging--compatible with their electric car.

  16. Summary crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is hard to take the summary seriously on any numbers when it says things like the Telsa Supercharger network being 7,000 strong and comparing it to a company building CHARGING LOCATIONS. Tesla only has 7,000 if you could EVERY LAST PLUG at its roughly 1,000 Supercharger stations - https://www.tesla.com/supercha.... The only way the comparison in the summary makes any sense is if this new company is going to install 400 charging locations with ONE charger at each.

  17. Re: how nice of ford by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

    Do you have a citation for that? All I can find is a $5.9 billion loan to develop electric vehicles. There was an additional $16 billion high interest loan, but this latter was paid off.

    --
    The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
  18. Re:how nice of ford by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Remind me, when again did America bail out Ford of Europe?