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Microsoft and GitHub Team Up To Take Git Virtual File System To MacOS, Linux (arstechnica.com)
An anonymous reader writes: One of the more surprising stories of the past year was Microsoft's announcement that it was going to use the Git version control system for Windows development. Microsoft had to modify Git to handle the demands of Windows development but said that it wanted to get these modifications accepted upstream and integrated into the standard Git client. That plan appears to be going well. Yesterday, the company announced that GitHub was adopting its modifications and that the two would be working together to bring suitable clients to macOS and Linux. Microsoft says that, so far, about half of its modifications have been accepted upstream, with upstream Git developers broadly approving of the approach the company has taken to improve the software's scaling. Redmond also says that it has been willing to make changes to its approach to satisfy the demands of upstream Git. The biggest complexity is that Git has a very conservative approach to compatibility, requiring that repositories remain compatible across versions.
Microsoft and GitHub are also working to bring similar capabilities to other platforms, with macOS coming first, and later Linux. The obvious way to do this on both systems is to use FUSE, an infrastructure for building file systems that run in user mode rather than kernel mode (desirable because user-mode development is easier and safer than kernel mode). However, the companies have discovered that FUSE isn't fast enough for this -- a lesson Dropbox also learned when developing a similar capability, Project Infinite. Currently, the companies believe that tapping into a macOS extensibility mechanism called Kauth (or KAuth) will be the best way forward.
Microsoft and GitHub are also working to bring similar capabilities to other platforms, with macOS coming first, and later Linux. The obvious way to do this on both systems is to use FUSE, an infrastructure for building file systems that run in user mode rather than kernel mode (desirable because user-mode development is easier and safer than kernel mode). However, the companies have discovered that FUSE isn't fast enough for this -- a lesson Dropbox also learned when developing a similar capability, Project Infinite. Currently, the companies believe that tapping into a macOS extensibility mechanism called Kauth (or KAuth) will be the best way forward.
It's just for not having to write one for Apple.
If you want a linux version just explain it to me, in person and say you want it and I'll write it.
Cunt.
Business as usual.
Running this git file system as PID 1 should eliminate performance issues.
Go ahead. Become dependent on yet another third-party "cloud" service.
Idiots.
So, if I understand it right, they've just reinvented the MVFS system pioneered by ClearCase decades ago?
The whole point of git was to have a decentralized repository, so that the repository could be rebuilt from anyone's local repository in the case of failure.
But the larger problem is that if your dependencies aren't properly managed, you end up downloading the whole repository when you build anyway, so the only thing they've accomplished is delaying the build step rather than the clone step.
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
The skeptical side of my is saying "It's a trap!"
The practical side of me is suspending judgement and waiting to see how this play outs because MS, at this point, has ZERO confidence that they won't hijack this.
--
"Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it, badly" -- paraphrasing George Santayana
It's not 1995. Microsoft of today is very different of the Microsoft from two decades ago. The presence of Azure alone guarantees that their old business approaches are irrelevant in today's market.
Microsoft has become one of the premiere open source providers. They've released a huge amount of great open source software, from .NET Core to Visual Studio Code to TypeScript and beyond.
Maybe it isn't apparent to people firmly stuck in the past, such as yourself, but Microsoft has leapfrogged many of the traditional open source companies.
People actually like using .NET Core on platforms like Linux and macOS. They like using Visual Studio Code, because it's an excellent cross-platform IDE. They love using TypeScript because it brings sanity to JavaScript.
Yes, Microsoft does embrace and extend open source software. And we're thankful for it! They're providing us some great improvements. That's what open source is all about: allowing a wide variety of contributors to improve the open source software.
As for the Extinguish phase you're fixated on, it's not an issue. They just aren't doing it. They can't really extinguish the projects based on the code they've released under very liberal open source licenses.
Frankly, I've had far better luck with the open source software from Microsoft than I've had with open source software from the traditional open source companies.
For example, software like .NET Core and Visual Studio Code has greatly improved my Linux experience. It has helped make me a more productive programmer. On the other hand there is a lot of software that didn't come from Microsoft, like systemd, GNOME 3, PulseAudio and NetworkManager, that has actually served to ruin my Linux experience in many ways.
I never thought I'd be saying this, but Microsoft really has helped improve my Linux experience, while many traditional Linux supporters have actually made it worse! I encourage Microsoft to embrace and extend open source software. So far I've found their contributions to be excellent.
Probably only as root? Just to transfer file versions to and from the cloud? What could possibly go wrong?
"All your base are belong to us"
The "problem" is that git takes a *conserv*ative approach towards compatibility?
So in other words: Microsoft would like to break git's compatibility with non-Windows?
YOU DON'T SAY!
How many times have we go through this exact story again and again?!
You do not deal with Microsoft. You do not talk to them, you do not take anything from them, you do not follow their suggestions, and you do not get in their van!
Lest you want to come out once as the skin worn by Microsoft, and once as dog food from the meat grinder.
Not to be that guy, but 'typo in headline.' "GNU/Linux" is misspelled. (Sorry, I guess it turns out that I AM that guy.) Second... it's Micro$oft, and therefore, the fact that it's a trap kind of goes without saying.
Our reign has gone on long enough. Indeed. Summon the meteors.
You're talking to people who still think it's 1995 in pretty much every way and still make 'Micr0$haft' jokes Pearls before swine...
So what backdoors did they manage to stick in the upstream version of the Git source?
... and systemd. No, wait, that abomination isn't Microsoft.
Yeah, yeah. We've all heard it before. Shut up. Microsoft has a track record stretching over 30 years of being a bunch of assholes and crooks. A few token efforts is nowhere enough to re-establish any kind of credibility. Establishing yourself as a shill and an apologist is pretty quickly done though, so congrats to that.
and their media player literally exactly that, and you are wonder why they want to stomp out other names?
They have a long history of naming things so that people are forced to mean their definition by default if they speak about other things of that same category.
The Microsoft of the Halloween Documents doesn't exist anymore. If Linux does something well, Microsoft can make money from it selling Azure to run tasks on. If Android does well, Microsoft gets a chunk of every Android device going out there. So, unlike the past, their revenue streams don't depend on just Windows for an OS. For example, MS SQL server runs on Linux... and MS still gets their cut for licensing.
MS is still a corporation, and they are beholden to the bottom line above all, but MS hitching their cart to Git is not unexpected. It is a widespread, easily maintained, relatively cheap technology... and having something different is expensive. So, moving to Git isn't a surprise move... and it is a good thing overall.
Beats Visual Sourcesafe, definitely.
So Microsoft hasn't changed because they will stop at nothing to make more money any way they can, regardless of it's impact on society or computing? Microsoft hasn't changed. Windows 10 proves that they will get away with whatever they can and leverage ignorance to line their pockets at every opportunity.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
I've heard of people using git for strange purposes (blogging?!) but for a second reading this headline I had the horrific thought that someone was attempting to create a filesystem backed by git.
Fortunately that's not the case, GVFS (not that other GVFS) provides a git-compatible filesystem abstraction on Windows 10.
Although I'm not a big git fan, I do have to say I'm impressed with Microsoft's recent moves toward open-source and interoperability. If the Linux Subsystem is ever a first-class citizen in the MS ecosystem, I could even see myself using Windows again.
The snow doesn't give a soft white damn whom it touches. -- ee cummings
This is what happens when you pick technologies by popularity and groupthink. Git has very real flaws: the worst UI of any source control system I've ever used, inability to deal with large repositories, a confused and overcomplicated operational model, trouble with storing large binaries. You can always spot the people who learned Git as their first VCS: when confronted with these problems, they'll say things like "monorepos are bad" or "the CLI tools were always meant to have 'porcelain' built on top of them, not used directly, so it's fine if they suck" -- they have drunk the koolaid and can't see things any other way or explain real counterexamples to the contrary.
For hobby projects these are academic problems, but if you're working at the scale of a complete operating system then you have to confront Git's weaknesses head-on and fix them. The fact that MS felt it was worth going down this rabbithole just to follow the crowd is sad.
No, Microsoft comes with too easy to get root-type access. Android has no root access.
They can suck my codpiece.
Damping absorbs vibrations. Dampening is caused by moisture.
"stop at nothing to make more money any way they can"
MS is a for profit enterprise not a non-profit or charity. And their current endeavors have centered around merging their proprietary technology with open source technologies. Creating an OS capable of running Windows and spinning up sandboxed Linux instances on the same server without having to use a VM.
I find it very telling that the first open source projects released my MS is developer tools. MS owes it's dominance by attracting more developers because the more developers means more applications which means more sales of the entire MS stack. VB, even with all it's limitations and flaws, made programming easy enough that the number of developers skyrocketed. Prior to VB the main development tools for MS applications centered around C\C++ which was much more difficult for a wanna be application developer.
Can you provide the data you used to make these claims?
Sure. Here you go ...
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Ah, you don't have any data, so you doubled down on your ignorance. Let me guess - you're a Trump supporter?
If you can't find the information there you are too stupid to understand it anyway. Just as there is no question that Trump is a degenerate sociopath who takes advantage of the weak and ignorant, so to is it well proven throughout the years that Microsoft is the corporate equivalent.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
I agree with that last bit. Mr. Coward, you will never be trusted again!
You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
Now MicroSoft tries to turn it into the opposite, asking developers to depend on some remote repository in order to be able to work.
The obvious agenda here is to make repository hosting first more centralized, then more "hosted at MicroSoft", then, once people depend on the hosted service, demand monthly fees for it.
The larger point, which you missed whilst sniffing your farts, is that those who are challenged to provide data to to back their claims but actually have no data will more likely than not often post a link to Google and demand the challenger find the data themselves while simultaneously trying to "blame the victim". You are weak and ignorant, so my guess that you are a Trump supporter is not without merit.
Why is this story at apple.slashdot.org ?
From just an information theory perspective, you've demanded that research be done but you haven't actually specified anything more specific than "MicroSoft hasn't changed."
And I impeach that by pointing out that once upon a time their product was a computer language written by hand by Bill and Paul. And now, Bill and Paul are off doing other things, they don't write the code by hand from the datasheet without a computer anymore. Somebody completely different is blindly pounding out code now! So we know that the statement "MicroSoft hasn't changed" is false.
Nobody tell him GitHub already exists and charges money. Microsoft's interested in GVFS is because 1) Git sucks at handling large repos, and 2) Microsoft has a 270GB repo. /. article back in Friday had better comments, including one linking an article describing why they chose Git for source control, and what GVFS actually does.
The original
DATABASE WOW WOW
Microsoft had to modify Git to handle the demands of Windows development but said that it wanted to get these modifications accepted upstream and integrated into the standard Git client.
They're very likely doing something wrong here.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
In other news, arrogant Microsoft still won't change the name of GVFS that isn't already used by a prominent Linux feature: https://github.com/Microsoft/GVFS/issues/7
> The biggest complexity is that Git has a very conservative approach to compatibility, requiring that repositories remain compatible across versions.
Hi, Microsoft: this is called "not fucking over your users". I guess it does feel strange to you. Welcome to the free software culture.
My troll and sarcasm detector is a bit off kilter (fscking flu bug), but hey, I'll bite as I've got bugger all else to do at present.
lots of .NET and Visual Studio fanboi stuff
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...
They love using TypeScript because it brings sanity to JavaScript.
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...sanity to JavaScript? do I chorlle now, or guffaw?
On the other hand there is a lot of software that didn't come from Microsoft, like systemd, GNOME 3, PulseAudio and NetworkManager, that has actually served to ruin my Linux experience in many ways.
Now there, I have to agree, I hate having to use linux boxen infected with these named abominations, the good thing is I can quite happily remove these components from my own systems and still have functional machines, can't say the same for any bits of the OS or window manager I don't care for of the Windows and MacOS boxen I have to use.
Yes, Microsoft does embrace and extend open source software. And we're thankful for it!
Thankful?, as in 'Be thankful we're only applying the red hot poker to your arse, not your eyes..'?
They're providing us some great improvements.
Detail them, here and now, and I'll get back to you, in the meantime have a gratis 'Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries'
That's what open source is all about: allowing a wide variety of contributors to improve the open source software.
Aye, 'tis but a pity a lot of these contributors are working to corporate agendas which are inherently inimical to the 'ethos' of open source..
please note, I'm not saying the contributors have the agendas, they're probably mentshen, but their employers?
You're in Hell, burning in the eternal flames, the Devil himself pisses on your head, putting out the flames, affording you a few brief moments of relief, so you now should forgive and forget he stoked the flames that are burning you in the first instance?, and will soon return once you dry off?, and that he only pissed on you in the first instance for his own amusement?
I think not..
270G is a large git repo? That's a bit over half the size of ours.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Fix the piss poor Git integration in Visual Studio
You have that bass ackwards. In the case of well known, thoroughly documented, and literally indisputable fact being advanced weasels like you try to win the argument by claiming that it is my responsibility to do your homework and then shout "I knew you didn't know the answer! " in hopes that they might save face.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
I didn't demand research be done. The other idiot wanted me to give him the answers to the test and I told him I wasn't going to play his little game. Do try to keep up. And you might want to learn about information theory before talking about it. This has nothing to do with it.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
For a single git repository, it's quite large. Git's lack of ability to check out, and manage, a single directory of a much larger upstream can be problematic with this.
Very funny.
http://www.supersu.com/
And make it MS Git: Incompatible to itself, always changing interface, only runs well on Windows. Seriously, the comment about version compatibility in Git should be a huge red flag.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Jesus Christ you cry like a little bitch, all the time. Go get some anti-depression meds dude.
As for the Extinguish phase you're fixated on, it's not an issue. They just aren't doing it. They can't really extinguish the projects based on the code they've released under very liberal open source licenses.
Love the way that you framed this line. They can't extinguish projects based on code. Microsoft tried that in the SCO-Baystar vs. IBM case. Oracle also tried that against Google. Turns out, your copyright does not apply to someone else's work.
Now they are using patents, NPE Trolls (such as Intellectual Ventures), and this nebulous idea known as intellectual property. Thanks in great part to Microsoft, Apple, and other big players, we can't have rounded corners on our phones or click on a single god damned button to purchase a product.
This misuse of patent and copyright law is having a chlling effect exactly the opposite of the framers of the U.S. constitution. Article I, Section 8, Clause 8, of the United States Constitution grants Congress the power "To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries."
This disease has now spread to other fields. Publicly funded research is being held hostage by Elsevier, and the resulting patents by IV. Public legal documents have been captured behind PACERs paywall. If anything, progress has been heavily taxed by those who seek to lay claim and monetize public research and the work of others.
Thanks Bill Gates, Steve Ballmer, Paul Allen, Larry Ellison, Nathan Myhrvold, and Jeff Bezos. May you be remembered as Richard Stallman memorialized Steve Jobs - "I'm not glad he's dead, but I'm glad he's gone."
So Windows 10 uses normal init in the Windows Subsystem for Linux?
Ezekiel 23:20
Ha, ha. I knew it! I knew you'd come back. Earlier this year, excessive trolling led you to getting modded down low enough to prevent your posts from showing up. After that you drastically changed your tone. You actually seemed pleasant and respectful, just long enough to get enough positive karma. No you're right back to being a full-fledged asshole.
Cool story bro
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
.NET Core is a pretty poor example of Microsoft taking cross-platform seriously. The 2.0 release is alpha-quality at best. And is inexplicably almost twice as fast on Windows as on Linux/Mac. I'm still hopeful they might really mean it, but they've done a poor job of acting like it so far.
I didn't demand research be done.
And yet prior:
Sure. Here you go ... [google.com]
and then
If you can't find the information there you are too stupid to understand it anyway.
And if you can't comprehend that you were demanding unspecified research, I'll just answer by quoting you further:
weak and ignorant
You sound unhappy with my content. Now, wouldn't it make more sense for you to take anti-depressants? Me, I'm pretty happy with what I wrote.
Dumbfuck, he demanded I do his research for him. What you claim is my demanding is merely my refusal to capitulate to his demanding.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
GitHub still uses ordinary git repositories, and the people using github still have their whole, complete repositories on their own local machines. Quite different from the MicroSoft GVFS.
If MicroSoft really put 270 GB of source code into one git repository, this only demonstrates how little they learned since the days they had to introduce a weird kind of "precompiled headers" in order to deal with their excessive use of one ".h" file that includes everything.
One might argue that git's support for referencing sub-modules is not ideal at this time, but it sure exists and can be used to avoid overly large single repositories.
He asked your reason. You appealed for him to do research.
You're so smaht you can't see the difference? LOL
If you explained your reasons and he wanted a citation, then it would be reasonable to say, "go and research what I said." But that isn't the case; you made a very very very broad statement, which I already impeached above, and he was asking you for data. Your claim had conclusions, but you didn't make any claims as to if there even is data that supports it. If you don't know if data exists that supports your claim, how do you know that research would uncover it? No, you have to have done the research already! And when you appeal to another to do research about your own claims, you'd need to be willing to make some sort of reference as to what was researchable. Just giving a bare google link with no description of the data is fucking moronic. Dumbfuck.
Git with submodules solves the _reverse_ problem. One would have to fragment a project into many distinct git repositories, and maintain them each individually with a master project, to allow developers to check out and work on only one small component at a time. To pick out only a small component for local development, one has to pre-separate and activate that one, separate component as a repository and modify the master repository to use submodules.
It's feasible, and I've certainly helped workgroups do that. When a repository grows as large as the mentioned 270G, it's usually well past time to split up components into separate git repositories. And a master git project with git submodules under it may be the only reliable way in git to unify the project and allow subcomponent development to proceed efficiently. But that's a considerable amount of organizational work to achieve, even with a smaller project.
The only thing people see is your reliable history of acting like a jackass. Every post. Look at your comment history. Did your dad abandon you as a child?
And you still are not capable of providing any supporting data for your retarded claims.
OK, so you are probably not Trump, but you have documented you are far dumber.
Translation: have no facts to back up my unsubstantiated claims.
No, he asked you to substantiate your unsubstantiated claims. Have you stopped raping children? You never did you say? I say different. Check google
Right. It's like when someone says "prove to me I will fall if I jump from this cliff" and I refuse to teach them physics. Proof that there is no proof! Clearly anyone who wanted me to believe that would teach me Physics upon demand! You are a truly special form of special, aren't you?
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
You really should have chosen herpderper for your Slashdot login.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
3 stupid posts in so little time, all saying the same thing and proving you are a dumbfuck? Listen herpderper, we already get that you are a fucking moron. There is no need to become a Slashstalker to prove it.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
and you still have no arguments. How old are you? Five? Donald Trump indeed.
still, no ability to put together a coherent argument. Hello President Trump. You're a moron.
and still, not a single argument. Good for you. How's the recovery from your encephalectomy coming along?
Hi herpderper!