Slashdot Mirror


Singapore To Use Driverless Buses 'From 2022' (bbc.com)

Singapore plans to introduce driverless buses on its public roads by 2022. From a report: The government says they will be piloted in three new neighbourhoods which will have less-crowded roads designed to accommodate the buses. The buses will be used to help residents travel in their communities, and to nearby train and bus stations. Densely-populated Singapore hopes driverless technology will help the country manage its land constraints and manpower shortages. "The autonomous vehicles will greatly enhance the accessibility and connectivity of our public transport system, particularly for the elderly, families with young children and the less mobile," the Transport Minister Khaw Boon Wan said. The autonomous buses are expected to complement existing manned bus services, and will initially operate during off-peak hours. Additionally, the government plans to let commuters hail on-demand shuttles using their mobile phones.

42 comments

  1. Driverless trolleybuses by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Driverless vehicles could follow specific routes and get power from wires -- they could have almost no battery capacity. Minimizing the meet for batteries could be environmentally great. Basically trams without the rails.

    1. Re: Driverless trolleybuses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PLZ DIE K THX

    2. Re:Driverless trolleybuses by iTrawl · · Score: 2

      One could even suggest the paths be made of metal and do away with the clever AI. Something like the DLR in London.

      --
      "Everybody's naked underneath" -- The Doctor
    3. Re:Driverless trolleybuses by SirSlud · · Score: 1

      That's significantly more expensive.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    4. Re:Driverless trolleybuses by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Driverless vehicles could follow specific routes and get power from wires -- they could have almost no battery capacity. Minimizing the meet for batteries could be environmentally great. Basically trams without the rails.

      There are already trams that run on wheels. Same overhead wires, but a converted bus underneath like this one from Holland. I believe that there are even ones that can cross from road to rail.

      However in Singapore I still see a Chinese taxi driver hanging out the window shouting "what you do, lah" at the bus. Seriously though, this could work in Singapore because they have such little traffic because the number of vehicle registrations they give out are so low. So it's a perfect proof of concept that can't be applied anywhere else... like most of what happens in Singapore.

      Also, driverless busses are nothing new, they've been operating on dedicated busways like Adelaide's O-Bahn for decades.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  2. driverless is stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This is stupid. Autonomous vehicles are nowhere close to being ready. Many engineers believe that driverless cars just aren't possible, yet they're being ignored. Cab anyone justify that?

    1. Re:driverless is stupid by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 2

      Fixed route in a city with no snow would be a nearly perfect test application. Basically a tram without tracks.

    2. Re:driverless is stupid by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      Hum, déjà vu.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    3. Re:driverless is stupid by fluffernutter · · Score: 2

      While I agree, I hear Singapore is very clean and the type of place where lines get repainted and signs fixed in short order. It may be the only place in the world where self driving can work, especially on fixed routes like buses have.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    4. Re: driverless is stupid by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Can anyone justify that?

      Sure; MBA's, marketing drones and politicians - notable programming geniuses, every last one.

    5. Re:driverless is stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They tried that in Vegas. Lasted for 2 hours.

    6. Re:driverless is stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think because Singapore has such a strict legal system this is probably the first place where this sort of thing can work. I'm not sure how they drive there, but presumably, the buses would get their own lane and other cars would only be allowed in it to turn. In a situation like that, the bus doesn't need to worry about being hit, ti just needs to worry about people stepping out in front of it. But, even with a human driver, that's a problem. With AI, that would be slightly less of a problem as the time between detecting the pedestrian and applying the brake would be less.

      I'm sure part of the solution will be to tighten up the laws where needed so that pedestrians don't step out expecting to have the bus stop for them.

    7. Re:driverless is stupid by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      That's misleading. A human-driven truck ran into a stopped automated bus at creeping speed. No injuries and there was a human "attendant" on board, which obviously did not help since the bus already detected the hazard and stopped.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    8. Re:driverless is stupid by SirSlud · · Score: 1

      And then resumed a day or two after.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    9. Re:driverless is stupid by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      But it still emphasizes the issue at the heart of self-driving. The truck driver has probably made this maneuver successfully hundreds of times because humans understand the situation well and can anticipate the movement of the truck and how do prevent it from turning into an accident. How can a self driving vehicle be on a public road if it cannot be like a human in a very straightforward way? It doesn't really matter what the law is here, self driving shouldn't be turning normal human driving scenarios into a collision.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    10. Re:driverless is stupid by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Please... humans crash into each other several times a minute. The automatic bus in question was back on the road the next day and there have been no further incidents. Perfection is not the bar here, human drivers are the bar to meet or exceed. It's not as high a bar as you are implying.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    11. Re:driverless is stupid by Neuronwelder · · Score: 1

      Not only stupid. But what about crime on unmanned buses? Anything can be hacked. What happens then?

    12. Re: driverless is stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have it the wrong way around. The problem is the bad truck driver, who needs to be replaced by an automated system. Not the automated system that, for reasons that should be obvious enough, does not encourage bad driving by others. Surely a bad driver is worse than a good driver that is intolerant of other bad drivers.

    13. Re: driverless is stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Automated police. Only half joking. Aircraft, traffic lights can be hacked as well. Has it become a huge problem? Human drivers can be corrupted/disoriented as well, this is nothing new.

    14. Re: driverless is stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong. Despite media attempts to cover for automated vehicles constantly, the Vegas accident was because the automated vehicle did something stupid.

      Just becaise you're a talentless human who needs replacing doesn't mean the rest of us are. This crap is a media sensationalized solution in search of a problem.

    15. Re: driverless is stupid by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Pruck drivers have to do these things because of the places businesses need them to load. Roads are not made for truck drivers, especially drop off points in back alleys. Fine then, every city should really be making roads for truck drivers. Let's tear down buildings and widen back alleys. That should only cost a hundred billion dollars or so.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    16. Re:driverless is stupid by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Funny, the last time I got in an accident, no one said "you know what, many people get in worse accidents. We're not going to penalize you for this one."

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    17. Re: driverless is stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Neither did they hold you to a higher standard than all the other drivers. It's like penalizing experienced drivers more than others, on the basis they should be having fewer accidents.

    18. Re: driverless is stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The police cited the truck driver. How is that media distortion?

    19. Re: driverless is stupid by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure what to make of your comment since I'm holding self-driving to the same standard as other drivers. If someone stopped behind a truck backing up I would call them an idiot too. You realize, the only reason why this technology is 'working' now is because the accident has made everyone shit-scared of these buses and they are tip toeing around them. At some point someone is going to get in an accident with another human driver solely because they were worried about avoiding the self-driving vehicle that will do something idiotic. Of course, these accidents will never be captured as 'caused by self-driving' even though they technically are. Once more of these idiot vehicles are released, driving may become more dangerous for everyone. If a person drives 10 MPH on a freeway and people get in accidents while avoiding the slow vehicle, who has really caused it?

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    20. Re: driverless is stupid by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      If you want to change the rules, then change the rules and the programmers will make the appropriate changes. Don't blame a robot for taking the laws literally. For this particular robot, they'll change the rules for horn blowing. The trucker is liable, just like if he hit any other immobile object. A robot truck probably would not have backed into the bus.

      Once more of these idiot vehicles are released, driving may become more dangerous for everyone.

      Oh, please. Pretty soon we'll have data and this kind of absurd statement will die down. Autonomous vehicles will become just another road feature - and a predictable one at that - that people navigate around.

      If a person drives 10 MPH on a freeway and people get in accidents while avoiding the slow vehicle, who has really caused it?

      If that's your concern, change the rules to prohibit going 10MPH on the freeway. They are just computers - they'll follow the rules.

      And yes, to answer your question - if you hit someone going 10 MPH on the freeway, you were either not paying attention or you were driving recklessly. Yes, they created a hazard, but hazards are part of driving - it could just as easily have been an emergency vehicle, a tire tread, or a mattress. The autonomous cars will not hit the hazard.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    21. Re: driverless is stupid by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      If self driving vehicles take rules literally, it will make driving impossibly for everyone else. This is a problem with salf-driving cars and not everyone else. This is all I'm saying. If self-driving cars were being put on their own separate track, then fine. But they need to be able to drive with people, and that means they need to anticipate what people will do and not cause in accidents, whether it is their fault or not.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    22. Re: driverless is stupid by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      The person legally at fault is not necessarily the person who caused the accident.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    23. Re: driverless is stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Walk down a dodgy neighbourhood in bling and you're inviting trouble, that doesn't absolve the bad actors from responsibility. The truck driver stuffed up, no amount of hand waving will change that.

  3. Amazing by maxbuzz · · Score: 1

    Wow! That's amazing. But how did they get driverless buses from 2022?

  4. Woops! by boudie2 · · Score: 1

    Singapore has the third highest population density in the world. If a few people get run over and killed that's not a bug that's a feature.

  5. Maybe it will work in Singapore/Not anywhere else by mykepredko · · Score: 2

    Years ago, my brother was involved the design of a light rail program here in Toronto (the "Kenney Line" to Scarborough Town Centre) with the idea that they would run without any transit employees on board.

    The idea got nixed when somebody asked what happens if a woman gets assaulted?

  6. Will they cut off other drivers ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bus drivwes seem to take pleasure from cutting off other drivers, just because they cam get away with it.

  7. Re:Maybe it will work in Singapore/Not anywhere el by CastrTroy · · Score: 2

    What happens on the subway if a woman (or man) gets assaulted now? The driver isn't going to stop the train and go all the way back to stop them. Last time I was in Toronto, I don't remember seeing security guards on the cars. Don't they just have emergency buttons for this very purpose? The train could just stop at the next station until the problem is resolved. Most likely the other passengers would put a stop to any assault, and if they didn't, I don't see how the driver (who might also be a person of small stature) might make any difference in the situation.

    --

    Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
  8. Re:Maybe it will work in Singapore/Not anywhere el by mykepredko · · Score: 1

    IIRC correctly, a transit employee on the train was sufficient to deter and attack and at least mitigate one if it happens by moving to the car where the problem is happening.

  9. Re:Maybe it will work in Singapore/Not anywhere el by MightyYar · · Score: 1

    In NYC, they pay the "conductor" (the guy who closes the doors to separate you from your family) more than a rookie cop. Turn on the automatic doors and put a rookie cop on each train. Problem solved.

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  10. Re:Maybe it will work in Singapore/Not anywhere el by Kjella · · Score: 2

    The idea got nixed when somebody asked what happens if a woman gets assaulted?

    Emergency buttons and a live 911 camera feed? With the ability to speak over the intercom to let them know the police is watching them right now and officers are on the way to the next stop. If they're smart they might release the fire alarm so the emergency exists must open, but still. Of course it wouldn't help if the one being assaulted is alone and nobody is there to push the button, but how is that different from a woman assaulted anywhere else? It's not like we can have stewards watching all women at all times in case something bad happens.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  11. Re:Maybe it will work in Singapore/Not anywhere el by fafalone · · Score: 1

    Encountered that situation a couple months back in NYC. An off duty detective took out his gun and beat a homeless man with it (with the barrel pointed at me 2' away, yay nypd) for yelling at him. The train was stopped and the conductor came to investigate, as they always do. The situation had ended, and they had both walked away, and it was made very clear to us that if anyone wanted the police called, the train would not be moving. We all shut up and moved on, and it went unreported. One other person got it on camera, but like me probably never reported it for fear of retaliation by the police, which is known to happen, and not worth it if no one is dead. Less intense assaults get ignored entirely, because no one wants the train held for even 5 minutes while the conductor walks back. Well not ignored, just someone calls 911 or finds a cop on a platform later, instead of hitting the emergency button and telling the conductor, who tells the operator to stop the train. It does make a difference, however, because the train personnel can radio for police directly, and stop the train so police can actually respond (they won't even try to track down a moving train), in minutes... last time I called 911 in the middle of midtown Manhattan on a subway platform, it took police 15 minutes and EMS 20, subway radio call I've never seen longer than 3-4 minutes.

  12. Singapore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Manpower shortage in the most densely packed country in the world?

    Singapore has an extremely low violent crime rate even though they have a multi-racial society. Any racists want to explain that?

  13. Re: Maybe it will work in Singapore/Not anywhere e by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can't be worse than what happens in Australia when assaulted on the train. Which is #@$@ all in my experience, until well after the incident.
    Network of cctv and roaming officers, more effective than a driver who is busy driving.