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Petition Calls for Ouster of FCC Chairman Pai (whitehouse.gov)

Long-time Slashdot reader speedplane writes: Yes, we've all heard that net neutrality is on its way out, and it seems NPR was able to snag one of the few (the only?) interview's of Ajit Pai on its effect. Sadly, NPR's Rachel Martin stuck to very broad and basic questions, and failed to press Pai on the change of policy. That said, it's worth a listen.
Pai insists that "We saw companies like Facebook, and Amazon and Google become global powerhouses precisely because we had light-touch rules that applied to this Internet. The Internet wasn't broken in 2015 when these heavy-handed regulations were adopted, and once we remove them, I think we'll continue to see the infrastructure investment that will benefit digital consumers and entrepreneurs alike... I've talked to a lot of companies that say, look, we want to be able to invest in these networks, especially in rural and low-income urban areas, but the more heavy-handed the regulations are, the less likely we can build a business case for doing it."

But New York's Attorney General Eric Schneiderman says he's spent six months investigating "a massive scheme to corrupt the FCC's notice and comment process" for net neutrality, adding that "the FCC has refused multiple requests for crucial evidence." (Nine requests over five months were ignored.) And now over 65,000 people have signed a new online petition at WhiteHouse.gov calling for the immediate removal of Ajit Pai as the FCC's chairman, calling him "a threat to our freedoms."

Meanwhile, The Verge has compiled "a list of the lawmakers who voted to betray you," with each listing also including "how much money they received from the telecom industry in their most recent election cycle."

174 comments

  1. Too little... by Freischutz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Too little too late.

    1. Re:Too little... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bury him in an ant hill. The ants can let market forces find the best path between his delicious facial flesh and their storage burrow network endpoint.

    2. Re:Too little... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Removing Pai is nearly useless. Trump will just put in a clone. Enough outrage might slow down his policies, but I doubt it. People are pretty stupid. They don't notice that their new swimming pool has a very large heater under it as the water slowly warms up.

      Now if Pai blocks facebook or something you might get screaming.

      At any rate Trump is doing the exact same thing at the consumer protection agency for the same reason. The republicans do not protect consumers. They protect big business and wait for some kind of yellow substance to trickle down.

      Seriously, can anyone answer how network neutrality was a net minus for consumers? How about how the cfpb was a net minus? Sure anyone can nitpick, but taken for all and all, they were good things. Sadly elections have consequences.

    3. Re: Too little... by javaman235 · · Score: 2

      There's a lot of foot in door speculation about what the private sector could do, if its things like low latency traffic for gamers, it'll be fine. If its going back to permanent tracking cookies injected:
      https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/...
      It'll fail in the free market, as consumers seek net neutral providers. Don't forget the effects of unethical financial products, the 2008 housing meltdown with govt bailout. What could the 2020 ISP meltdown look like??? If they're not ethical, we'll find out.

      --
      -The art of programming is the pursuit of absolute simplicity.
    4. Re: Too little... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You can't seek net neutral providers. If I want fast Internet my choice is either Cox or CenturyLink, CenturyLink tops out at 100mbps while Cox is about 300mbps. Both will likely take that path leaving me no choices.

    5. Re: Too little... by javaman235 · · Score: 2

      Not now, but at present Apple, Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Facebook, and more have all come out in support of net neutrality.

      I'm old. Slashdot 14 years ago was talking in desperation about MS monopoly, which fell apart at hands of Google, Apple. Also, the awful cell phone monopoly, e.g. Nokia flipphones with $60 proprietary chargers that broke all the time, totally wiped out by iphone. If ISPs overreach, the combined power of these companies can offer replacements, and win. Forcing people to buy junk depending on monopoly status is usually a horrible business strategy.

      --
      -The art of programming is the pursuit of absolute simplicity.
    6. Re: Too little... by MachineShedFred · · Score: 2

      So if Charter decided to throttle Netflix to 50% of the throughput I currently get, it would still be 3x faster than the next competitor.

      How am I supposed to "shop around" when there is no competition? And more to the point, how is Netflix supposed to shop around being extorted?

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    7. Re: Too little... by Agripa · · Score: 1

      If its going back to permanent tracking cookies injected, it'll fail in the free market, as consumers seek net neutral providers.

      EAE, encrypt absolutely everything. You would think law enforcement and national security agencies would be pushing for net neutrality so that the population feels safe about sending plaintext and they can continue easy mass surveillance but maybe they are asleep at the switch or simply lack influence compared to the communication companies. Or maybe all of the big endpoints are compromised anyway.

  2. When The Nuclear Option is the Only Option by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    How sad is it that our entire society has declined to the point that the nuclear option is the only option for any given conflict?

    Kids scuffle at school? "Zero Tolerance" expulsion.

    Someone cuts you off on the freeway? Chase them down and blow their brains out.

    Some politician wants to undo a bad policy that you like the title of? OFF WITH HIS HEAD!

    Even if we ignore the fact that current "net neutrality" rules are anything but neutral, and are in fact just the opposite of what "net neutrality" really means, the mere fact that we're calling for this guy's head on a spit should give us reason for pause and self-reflection, but nobody's interested in that anymore.

    Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled lynching.

    1. Re:When The Nuclear Option is the Only Option by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      You're right. What would I want the head for? That thing starts to rot and stink the place up.

      Just dump the whole corpse.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:When The Nuclear Option is the Only Option by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It takes a special kind of retarded traitor apologist to compare a public petition to oust an elected official from their badly managed office to an actual lynching.

      Maybe you should experience your hyperbole sometime.

    3. Re:When The Nuclear Option is the Only Option by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or perhaps it takes an even more special kind of retarded to be completely unable to discern a figure of speech from a literal expression.

    4. Re: When The Nuclear Option is the Only Option by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or perhaps it takes an even more special kind of retarded to be completely unable to discern a figure of speech from a literal expression.

      I disagree, the literal expression 'Petition Calls for Ouster of FCC Chairman Pai' takes an extraordinary individual to figure out WTF is meant.

      If you understand that as a 'figure of speech', you must be a retard.

    5. Re:When The Nuclear Option is the Only Option by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A literal expression would be "go fuck yourself with a cactus you apologist cunt" because I'm literally expressing that to you right now.

    6. Re:When The Nuclear Option is the Only Option by Maritz · · Score: 1

      How sad is it that our entire society has declined to the point that the nuclear option is the only option for any given conflict?

      Someone cuts you off on the freeway? Chase them down and blow their brains out.

      Your inability to argue against sincerely held positions gives something away. You've got fuck all.

      None of that shit is happening, and you're a fucking moron to suggest that it is.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
  3. Ouster? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hey Whipslash, can you get an editor to translate Editor David's gibberish into English?

    1. Re: Ouster? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I went to the ouster house for a good schucking

    2. Re: Ouster? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey Whipslash, can you get an editor to translate Editor David's gibberish into English?

      The linked page says 'resignation'.

      I have no idea why EditorDavid choose to change it to ousting, and then so utterly mangled it to 'ouster'.

      Just boggles the mind.

    3. Re: Ouster? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here comrade, perhaps this link will help you further your progress toward the role of Political Commissar:
      http://www.dictionary.com/browse/ouster?s=t

      As well, the past tense of "choose" is "chose".

      A good understanding of English is necessary to make your way in this murky world of online propaganda.

    4. Re: Ouster? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I'm normally the last person to defend Editor Dhavinder, but both words are totally cromulent.

      If you have the vocabulary of a gastropod that's your problem.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    5. Re: Ouster? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I googled ouster and the second link to urban dictionary gave me this, go figure:

      "Outsters are a subculture of men and women with a deep appreciation of; nature, environment, ecosystems and being outdoors, preferring to spend their time, leisure or otherwise, at activities such as hiking, kayaking, rock climbing, surfing, snowboarding or other physically demanding outdoor activities."

    6. Re: Ouster? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here comrade, perhaps this link will help you further your progress toward the role of Political Commissar:
      http://www.dictionary.com/browse/ouster?s=t

      Merriam-Webster is the defacto dictionary of the US, and gives dozens of examples of usage and a full etymology.

      But even your link clearly agrees that ouster is a noun and that EditorDavid's usage without a possessive adjective or article was nonsensical.

      So please stop defending the indefensible.

    7. Re: Ouster? by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      So either the urban dictionary has the vocabulary of a turnip or you're a really clumsy typist.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  4. Tarred and feathered please. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's not treat traitors with kid gloves. Tar, feathers, cat 5 whips.

    1. Re:Tarred and feathered please. by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Please. Let's stay civilized. Plucking a chicken is so cruel.

      Just throw him in the tar pit and enjoy.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Tarred and feathered please. by Agripa · · Score: 1

      Please. Let's stay civilized. Plucking a chicken is so cruel.

      Just throw him in the tar pit and enjoy.

      Infect him with plague, liquefy him, and use a crop sprayer to distribute him over Congress.

  5. Who ousted chairman Pai? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who ousted chairman Pai?

    And what does this petition want to do with that individual?

    Can someone explain WTF this is supposed to mean?

  6. Slashdot effect by Tomahawk · · Score: 1

    Here's hoping for a Slashdot Effect, in the most positive way, for that petition.

    Interestingly I've seen Imgur posts linking to it with over 100,000 likes, but the petition has yet to raise 100,000 signatures! (76k at time of writing).

    1. Re:Slashdot effect by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Let's rather go collect some money and buy us a ho ourselves. Have you read the article? Some of them go for less than 20k bucks, if we all chip in, maybe we can get a representative ourselves. Think about it: A congressman representing actual citizens. That could be revolutionary in US politics.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Slashdot effect by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 2

      Clay Higgins (R) from Louisiana is only $300. "Captain" Higgens is known for his "unprofessional and unlawful conduct", so maybe $400 would sway him. He's also on the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology.

    3. Re:Slashdot effect by Zocalo · · Score: 2
      That they sold out for as little as $20k just rubs salt in the wound. Your mention of hos makes me wonder if the negotiation as to the necessary funds went along along the lines of the old joke about negotiating affection:

      Man: "Would you have sex with me for one million dollars?"
      Woman: "For a whole million dollars? Sure!"
      Man: "Cool. Would you have sex with me for a buck?"
      Woman: "Of course not! What kind of woman do you think I am?"
      Man: "Lady, we've already established what you are. Now we're just haggling over the price."

      Substitute "sell out your constituents" for "have sex with me", and yeah, I can well believe some of these rent-a-shills would end up settling for $20k.

      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
    4. Re:Slashdot effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IMGUR garners the support from the worldwide population - the petition on wetheprople.org is US only.

    5. Re:Slashdot effect by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      It's the ultimate form of Capitalism. A government bought and sold according to the laws of supply and demand.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  7. No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Folks today think signing a petition online, or taking part in a robofax attack against your local congressmen is civics.
    I spent an hour friday talking to my congressman about both sides of this, and his office hadn't received a single call or mail about the issue. He wasn't uninformed, but his give a shit is low.

    robofax / robomail campaigns? nobody cares. if you can't be bothered to put your own words and ideas down and participate in the civic process then you genuinely don't care about the issue. Regardless of what you may say to your echo chamber online.

    1. Re:No by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 2

      This isn't a "robomal" campaign; however your feeling it will just be ignored is absolutely correct. This site really needs a "this is the response" section attached to every petition that meets the "100,000 signatures in 30 days" criteria. The link of "petitions with updates" goes to the "How it works" page; so that is rather telling of just how well this works. Maybe I should make a petition for that feature LOL...because it's impossible to see if any of these have been addressed in any way.

      There is a long list of petitions that have met the criteria, and none of them have been addressed (that I can tell from this page). "Divest or put in a blind trust all of the President's business and financial assets" got 356,353. "Immediately release Donald Trump's full tax returns, with all information needed to verify emoluments clause compliance." got 1,109,805. So yeah, this is nothing more than smoke and mirrors; bread and circuses.

    2. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you get to have an hour talking to your congressman? I'm not asking in jest, I'm serious. The phone number for my congressman lands me in some call center, I email him and ask for a response, I never get a response. How do you get a chance to talk to him for an hour?

    3. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OP here.

      Most hold open office hours, where you can literally just walk in and talk to them. I've built relationships with my local governance over the years, and am at the point now where most know me by name and pretty much all know me by sight. I'm not "important" but I stay involved and vocal.

      Volunteer on your local favorite's campaign. pass out flyers, make phone calls (or man a phone board during a campaign cycle) get to know them as people. Be sanely and rationally invested and involved year round, year in and out.

    4. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but but autistically screeching is all I have :(

      what is being political active if I cannot reeeeeee!!!!

    5. Re: No by Type44Q · · Score: 2

      How do you get a chance to talk to him for an hour?

      For Democratic congressmen, a large pile of coke. For Republican congressmen, a naked boy - and a large pile of coke.

  8. This will backfire on FB, Google etc by Hal_Porter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Steve Bannon has already suggested regulating them as utilities

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/s...

    Essentially the Democrats want one set of unpopular companies regulated. Bannon wants another set regulated. Right now the mainstream GOP is sticking to principle - ie that regulating either is bad and the status quo should stay. As US politics becomes more about shafting the other tribe and less about principles that might change though. I think it's fair to assume Trump is not overly concerned with abstract principles.

    Of course neither the Democrats or the GOP will confront the fact that telco monopolies were created by regulation. The reason people worry about Comcast abusing its position is because in many places in the US there is only one ISP option. Which is not true for most customers in the UK for example. UK regulations are not perfect but living in the UK I always had a choice of ISP. Hell even in corporatist Sweden that was true. Ericsson was powerful enough to avoid taxes but it wasn't powerful enough to manipulate regulations so it was a monopoly ISP.

    And the Net Neutrality advocates won't confront the fact that their argument for net neutrality should apply to Google and FB which are decidedly non neutral for political content. Then they say "It's a private company, they can do what they want" and link to that xkcd cartoon about being shown the door.

    It's hard to sympathize much with either side really. The GOP don't really oppose regulation because they want to keep the regulations that create monopolies. And the Net Neutrality folks don't really believe in Net Neutrality. If Google and FB violate Net Neutrality in ways that hurt their political opponents and help their political allies they don't care.

    And it's more likely that both the Democrats and Republicans decide on regulation based on whether it helps companies that donate to them and hurts ones who don't than that they're acting out of anything resembling principle.

    --
    echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    1. Re:This will backfire on FB, Google etc by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are sticking to retarded and patently corrupt, got it. MAGA = Mueller aint going away. I wouldn't be surprised if Pai gets exposure also, they're all going to prison for something.

      You think you're winning lol. ALL OF THIS IS OVERTURNED BY THE NEXT (REAL) PRESIDENT. Trump's going to be so fried you'll WISH you could forget his administration entirely.

      The next two years are the GOP roasting over a spit after lighting the fire themselves. Bon apetit, morons. Prisoners gotta eat.

    2. Re:This will backfire on FB, Google etc by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't always have a choice of ISP in the UK. Virgin Media is really only interested in wealthy middle class areas that are settled. They won't connect to new developments until they are three years old. The other option is satellite downloading or ADSL/DSL via various ISP's. But all of these companies have to rent lines from British Telecom "OpenReach", who in turn have the final say when an exchange will be upgraded to high-speed internet. Anyone living in rural areas is at the mercy of the "London First" policy of always upgrading London exchanges first, then gradually moving out to the other cities, towns and villages (usually about 20 years later)..

    3. Re:This will backfire on FB, Google etc by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the Net Neutrality advocates won't confront the fact that their argument for net neutrality should apply to Google and FB which are decidedly non neutral for political content. Then they say "It's a private company, they can do what they want" and link to that xkcd cartoon about being shown the door.

      Yet another person conflating Net Neutrality with Information Service Neutrality. (The latter is not something anybody wants or needs.)

      There's a reason Title I applies to information services and Title II applies to carriers. Facebook is an information service. Only. Nothing more. They are absolutely not a carrier. Nobody buys their internet connection from Facebook. Google is both an information service and a carrier. They observe NN rules by having their carrier-side operations not throttle connections to Bing, DuckDuckGo, your non-Gmail email provider, video services that aren't YouTube, and pretty much everything else for their Google Fiber customers. That's it. That's all NN is. It means carriers can't legally fuck with the content that flows through their network, for any reason, ever. It also means that fudge-packers like AT&T and Comcast can't do that either.

      TL;DR: Carriers and connection providers need to get used to being "dumb pipes" that cannot directly have any secondary monetization streams. Content providers aren't utilities.

    4. Re: This will backfire on FB, Google etc by peragrin · · Score: 5, Informative

      Net neutrality has been distorted by idiots like you.

      It isn't the content that is being regulated. It is the ability to get that content at all.

      Would you use Facebook if you had to pay $5 more a month for social media access?

      Would you get kissed off if your Comcast (Which owns msnbc) stopped streaming all fox news streams? Unless you signed up to pay Comcast $10 a moknth to allow fox websites and streams access?

      How would fox pay for such things? They charge you for it. So you pay Comcast $10 a month to access fox websites and pay $ fox $10 a month to get access to that plus pay Comcast again for basic internet access?

      Net neutrality is only to ensure that Comcast which owns msnbc doesn't use their monopolies to limit what you can get access too. That is what Comcast has started doing. That is paid access that Comcast forces Netflix to pay, to show content that you requested.

      All ISP's want this. That is how they monetise the stream. They want to charge 3-4 times for the same network content.

      That is what net neutrality is. Everyone arguing otherwise is using distraction and lies to hide the truth.

      In Portugal you pay extra to access certain websites like facebook

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    5. Re:This will backfire on FB, Google etc by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      The other option is satellite downloading or ADSL/DSL via various ISP's. But all of these companies have to rent lines from British Telecom "OpenReach", who in turn have the final say when an exchange will be upgraded to high-speed internet. Anyone living in rural areas is at the mercy of the "London First" policy of always upgrading London exchanges first, then gradually moving out to the other cities, towns and villages (usually about 20 years later)..

      Well it's subtle. The Blair government forced BT to provide broadband and for that matter phones in rural areas where un unregulated company would just not bother to operate. BT of course makes excess profits in other areas due to regulation - the government basically forces them to use some of them to subsidise rural areas and has always done so.

      The government does force them to allow other ISPs to resell their DSL connections. So even though BT has a monopoly on the actual DSL exchanges in an area, they're forced to sell DSL at a wholesale price to competitor companies. Which means consumers have a choice of DSL providers. So in a rural are you at least have that.

      Of course if you're out the country you'll get a 1Mbit connection tops and in a city you'll get a much faster one. But like, like I say, in an unregulated market you'd be stuck on a modem in a rural area because there aren't enough customers to make replacing the exchange a viable commercial proposition - BT only did it because the government forced them. It's true the government doesn't force them to upgrade all the exchanges in lock step, but then I'm not sure it should.

      I know some people who lived out in the country in the UK. Theoretically there's a mechanism where enough local people sign a petition BT will upgrade the exchange. The problem being that in a sparsely populated rural area where a lot of people don't care about the Internet that might be hard to do. Eventually they moved a couple of miles into a city area and got a much faster connection. At that point they could choose between fast DSL, fast cable and so on. This was not in a major city.

      Probably people out in the country will be stuck with 1Mbit DSL unless some future UK government forces BT to upgrade again in future. People in towns or a city will get much faster connections and a choice of cable or DSL connections - i.e. not just the slightly artificial choice of DSL reseller. This is mainly because there's a business case for digging up the streets to install cable or fibre once population density reaches town or city levels but there isn't if you have isolated houses in a city. Arguably something like WiMax and a microwave link is the way around this - you'd have a microwave link to the nearest town and WiMax to connect to all the houses in a village. If I was still based in the UK, I'd look into this. Of course it's a overregulated place - getting the permission to run the microwave link and the WiMax network would probably be a complete bureaucratic nightmare.

      UK Regulation is basically a double edged sword. Regulation means people in a rural area get DSL and a choice of providers. On the other hand it probably makes it very hard to run a company which does point to point microwave links and a WiMax network which would be a commercially viable way of giving people in that area a choice of ways to connect to the Internet.

      Of course if you're really lucky you'll have a decent HSPA, HSPA+ or LTE connection even out in the countryside. I suspect that's pretty rare though. If you do there are some MVNOs in the UK which offer unlimited data

      https://recombu.com/mobile/art...

      tl;dr - both ISPs and telcos concentrate on upgrading their equipment in the city because high population density gives them best return on their investment. The government forces BT to provide at least DSL in the countryside. It also forces BT to allow third parti

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    6. Re:This will backfire on FB, Google etc by dgatwood · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And the Net Neutrality advocates won't confront the fact that their argument for net neutrality should apply to Google and FB which are decidedly non neutral for political content.

      That's a very silly argument that falls apart under even the slightest scrutiny. Changing ISPs means selling your house and moving to another city. Changing to a new search engine or social network requires merely typing a different address at the top of your browser window. The two situations are simply not comparable.

      The reality is that anybody with sufficient technical experience could pull together a team and build a new social network or search engine from the ground up in O(months). That's why everybody on the planet has access to multiple social networks and multiple search engines. Regulating them makes no sense, because if you don't like the policies of one, you can trivially leave and go to another, and bring all of your friends with you, if necessary.

      By contrast, starting a new ISP involves attaching to utility poles that are owned by a third party and/or digging up roads and people's yards. And the telcos recently managed to get a federal judge to overturn Nashville's laws that are designed to make it more feasible to move existing utility lines in ways that make it practical to add new utilities. The current regulatory environment makes it largely infeasible to start a new ISP in most places. Worse, because of the relatively high cost per customer, it would still be infeasible even without those regulations except in dense urban areas. There's a reason that outside of the big cities, the fiber network in Tennessee is being built by the state government. There's not enough profit in it for a single ISP to run fiber, much less multiple ISPs.

      And it's more likely that both the Democrats and Republicans decide on regulation based on whether it helps companies that donate to them and hurts ones who don't than that they're acting out of anything resembling principle.

      Not at all. The Democrats feel we should regulate monopolies because they are monopolies, and should not regulate industries that have healthy competition, while the Republicans feel we should not regulate anybody, and believe that somehow competition will magically appear in markets with an obvious natural monopoly even though history has shown repeatedly that this almost never occurs in practice. Basically, Democrats believe in the notion of a natural monopoly, whereas Republicans just put their hands over their eyes and pretend that the problem doesn't exist, to the benefit of monopolies owned by their buddies.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    7. Re:This will backfire on FB, Google etc by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Changing to a new search engine or social network requires merely typing a different address at the top of your browser window. The two situations are simply not comparable.

      Yeah, if I get banned from Youtube or FB I can go to Minds or Gab.ai. Where no one will see my post.

      It's like saying if you get banned from Moscow you can go and live in Siberia where you're not allowed to have a phone. Which the Soviet Union did to Sakharov when he said things they didn't like.

      What it meant is they could control what the Overton Windows was in Moscow, where they cared about politics but exiling people to Siberia where they didn't. Meanwhile pro government media in Moscow would run all sorts of stories to discredit exiled people. E.g.

      https://www.hoover.org/researc...

      Without any advance warning, Sakharov is paid a surprise visit in Gorky by Nikolai Yakovlev, one of the sleazy, corrupted writers used by the KGB to slander its targets. Yakovlev had written an especially foul book attacking Sakharov and making vile anti-Semitic insinuations about his wife, Elena Bonner, yet here he comes and offers to interview Sakharov.

      Here's how Sakharov describes what happens next: "I'd realized right away that I was going to end up hitting him."

      And sure enough, Sakharov abruptly interrupts the conversation and says, "I'd rather take care of this matter by slapÂping you.

      "I dodged around the table. He flinched and avoided the blow, but I surprised him with an unexpected left-handed slap on his flabby cheek. 'Now get out of here,' I yelled, pushing the door open."

      Rather like people in the pro left media refer to gab as 'a social network for neo Nazis'. I.e. they want to control the dominant network, force anyone who disagrees with their narrative off that network off it and then refer to where they go as 'alt right' or neo Nazi networks.

      And of course even if you run your own website the ISP might decide to pull it and stop you registering another domain name as happened to Daily Stormer. Daily Stormer really are Neo Nazis of course but Brendan O'Neill makes the case for free speech for Neo Nazis pretty well here

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      And of course Kipness and people like her regularly call people like Milo or Ben Shapiro Neo Nazis, white supremacists, transphobic and so on and condone AntiFa thuggery to disrupt their talks. Hell Kipness says one of the reasons for banning them from universities is that 'AntiFa will stay home' and that banning them is like banning Goebbels. I'm sure once she's got rid of the Nazis and then trolls like Milo she'd come after Shapiro and eventually even libertarians like O'Neill who criticise her authoritarian nonsense too.

      And I'm sure if they got the same treatment that the Daily Stormer got, the left would say 'well their ISP is a private company, screw 'em'.

      Of course if a private company discriminates against someone the left approves of, they demand legal action (gay wedding cakes) or regulation (net neutrality)

      To paraphrase Niemoller 'Once the came for the Nazis and it did nothing because I was not a Nazi. Then they came for the trolls and I did nothing because I was not a troll. Then they came for the conservatives and I didn't nothing because I was not a conservative. Then they came for me, and there was no one to speak for me'.

      Fuck the US left basically, they're a bunch of authoritarians and more dangerous than the Neo Nazi kooks like Anglin who are basically trolls at this point with no real chance to implement their ideas. The left by contrast is completely dominant culturally in the old and new media and already has its own Brownshirts in the form of AntiFa. Even losing an election hasn't really affected their grasp on culture.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    8. Re:This will backfire on FB, Google etc by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm, I always had the impression that Virgin Media was interested in profit, not class divides.

    9. Re:This will backfire on FB, Google etc by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Yeah, if I get banned from Youtube or FB I can go to Minds or Gab.ai. Where no one will see my post.

      You have a fundamental right to speak. You do not have a fundamental right to make others hear you if they don't choose to do so.

      It's like saying if you get banned from Moscow you can go and live in Siberia where you're not allowed to have a phone. Which the Soviet Union did to Sakharov when he said things they didn't like.

      No, it isn't similar at all. Being forced to leave your home and your family and live in a forced labor camp in exceptionally cold temperatures with poor medical care is nothing like being told that a company won't let you say whatever you want on a server that they are paying for, so that you must provide your own hardware and Internet connection if you want to continue to exercise your free speech rights.

      Rather like people in the pro left media refer to gab as 'a social network for neo Nazis'. I.e. they want to control the dominant network, force anyone who disagrees with their narrative off that network off it and then refer to where they go as 'alt right' or neo Nazi networks.

      If enough people believe that the content being forced off of Facebook is mainstream content, then they will leave Facebook and join that network, and you will be heard. If what you're posting really is fringe content, then they won't follow you, and the only people who will hear it are the people who choose to see fringe content. This is as it should be. I do acknowledge that in theory there's a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem in terms of discovering that the content is filtered in the first place, but in practice, any action that prevents people from hearing about other social networks would be a *blatant* anti-trust violation, which is already solidly covered by existing laws.

      And of course even if you run your own website the ISP might decide to pull it and stop you registering another domain name as happened to Daily Stormer. Daily Stormer really are Neo Nazis of course but Brendan O'Neill makes the case for free speech for Neo Nazis pretty well here

      Not the ISPs. The domain name registrars. Sufficiently extreme groups are free to use any of half a dozen other DNS systems, darknet sites, etc. The more generally unacceptable the content, the more it will be pushed underground. That's pretty much expected, intentional, and generally desirable.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    10. Re:This will backfire on FB, Google etc by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Being forced to leave your home and your family and live in a forced labor camp in exceptionally cold temperatures with poor medical care

      That's not what happened to Sakharov though. He was sent into internal exile in Gorky and his phone was taken away. He didn't get sent to a labour camp. They wanted to move him out of the Overton Window, but were a bit more subtle about it than they were in the 30's.

      I do acknowledge that in theory there's a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem in terms of discovering that the content is filtered in the first place, but in practice, any action that prevents people from hearing about other social networks would be a *blatant* anti-trust violation, which is already solidly covered by existing laws.

      https://www.theverge.com/2017/...

      https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/201...

      Antitrust only kicks in if FB is declared a monopoly, which it has not been.

      As the left wing Guardian observed

      https://www.theguardian.com/co...

      "Don't you know what Facebook is?" a woman said. No interrobang, you notice. It wasn't a rebuke. It was worse than that - she was trying to be kind. It was as if I'd confided in her about my literacy problems or asked her to feel a lump. I can't forgive Facebook for that pang of humiliation and consequently have never signed up - which I'm perfectly happy about and my friends even happier because it's a great way for them not to invite me to parties. I'd only eat all the crisps and ask stupid questions anyway.

      But is this a sustainable position? Is joining Facebook becoming mandatory if you wish to remain part of the modern world? I'm sure it feels like that for teenagers and I think it probably does for most people in their 20s. I know I'm not on the technological cutting edge - I don't want to be - but neither do I want to be a modern-day equivalent of those who refused to have TVs in the 80s, a self-absorbed, neo-Amish anachronism flinging a judgmental glance behind me as I stomp out of society in a strop.

      Initially, I assumed Facebook was just a fad like its predecessors and, when Twitter became popular and fashionable, it seemed that the MySpace trajectory was once again being observed. Having joined Twitter, I smugly waited for Facebook's inevitable demise, congratulating myself for having skipped a whole technological chapter and saved myself a lot of hassle, very much as would have happened with the fax machine if I hadn't made the eccentric last-minute decision to buy one in 1999. Then something nasty and unexpected happened: the zeitgeist left Facebook and yet somehow it survived. It was like the moment in Outbreak when the virus goes airborne.

      It gets worse. Facebook is much more than an internet brand that's managing to ride the fad wave. It's becoming a monopoly. I know this because it's been mentioned in The Archers. A trade name in Ambridge! The place where old-school BBC rules about "sticky-backed plastic" and "a proprietary brand of spreadable yeast extract" still obtain to a ludicrous extent. No iPods, Walkmans, BlackBerrys or Kindles are ever mentioned but, in the last few weeks, the programme has started to call Facebook and Twitter by name. RIP Bebo. You only ever existed to demonstrate that "other social networking sites are available". Now there might as well not be. Everyone else is on Facebook and, if you update your status in the forest and there's no one there to read it...

      I'm sure Facebook would claim it's not a monopoly - strictly speaking it isn't - but it clearly wants to be and, if there are whole sections of society who feel obliged to sign up in order to be able to communicate with one another, then its dreams a

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    11. Re:This will backfire on FB, Google etc by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Say what you want about millennials, but they're feelings represent a change in cultural thought. You seem to associate more with ideas from a fading culture.
      Whether you choose to accept it or not, this is the direction we are all headed.

    12. Re:This will backfire on FB, Google etc by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Say what you like about the Augustus but his feelings represent a change in cultural thought. You seem to associate with ideas from a fading culture. Whether you choose to accept it, this is the direction we are heading.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  9. "A threat to our freedoms" by zifn4b · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think "A threat to our freedoms" is polarized political mumbo jumbo and not going to serve anyone well in this discussion. The real claim here is that Ajit Pai has a sympathetic view towards corporations that is likely to be a conflict of interest and is using political spin to attempt to justify this position. The political spin is nonsense as far as I can tell. By the way, I'm sure a lot of this is coming from the US Chamber of Commerce and the Business Roundtable. That's the real reason that Ajit Pai should be removed is because he lakes the ability to be impartial and do what's best for the country not corporate America. As we all know, there is a systemic problem of corruption in America and Ajit Pai is the latest to succumb to its influence. It's unfortunately the status quo in American politics.

    Now liberals, think about this issue that you care about very dearly. You protest, you sign all these petitions, you blog and project online, etc. and what does the government and corporate America do? They laugh at you because they think you're weak and all talk and no action. It thinks you'll lose interest in the issue and the status quo will continue. Now I wonder.. how else might the people be able to compel the government to represent them? You do the math... and you'll probably move a tad to the right of your beliefs when you realize what the answer to that question is. It's a sad state of affairs in America today that no one seems to have the capability to be reasonable.

    --
    We'll make great pets
    1. Re:"A threat to our freedoms" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is literally a threat to some freedoms you take for granted on the internet, right now for example. You don't get this, we know.

    2. Re:"A threat to our freedoms" by geekmux · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think "A threat to our freedoms" is polarized political mumbo jumbo and not going to serve anyone well in this discussion.

      Being dismissive of the larger impact and what the future looks like isn't going to serve future generations well either. The internet has become THE resource for global information. Attempting to carve that up into standard and premium bit buckets is nothing more than a form of censorship, which has always been viewed as a threat to our freedoms.

      Now liberals, think about this issue that you care about very dearly. You protest, you sign all these petitions, you blog and project online, etc. and what does the government and corporate America do? They laugh at you because they think you're weak and all talk and no action.

      One can try and justify that the give-a-shit level of The People is at an all-time low because people are ignorant and lazy.

      Or one can try and justify that the give-a-shit level of The People is at an all-time low because they've come to realize just how fucking irrelevant they truly are.

      Either way, this particular topic has elicited millions and millions of responses from The People who were ignored, which tends to highlight the latter theory.

      Systemic government corruption IS the bigger picture here. The story of the FCC and its corrupt leader is merely another chapter in the horrific book titled Threats to our Freedoms.

    3. Re:"A threat to our freedoms" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course it is politicized mumbo jumbo, they want him out for political reasons. Not political in the "he's got the other team's support so screw him" sense, but because there's no confidence that he has the American citizens' best interests in mind. That kind of thing is hard to prove without a paper trail, but when you refuse to provide the paper in the first place and have a history of proven industry contacts and interests it isn't doing any favors.

      We don't have a mechanism for un-electing officials or removing their appointed positions short of them being caught for actual felonies. Maybe there's collusion, maybe there's bribery, but what we do know is he's driving a publicly funded resource and by all open info does not have the public's best interests in mind. Making noise is really all we can do. Clicking an online petition won't do it alone, but it's a step.

    4. Re:"A threat to our freedoms" by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      Maybe they have an overly inflated view because they do not understand representative government and because of posts like yours. "The People" are no better at governing than a mob. If 'The People' really think the current government is so terrible then they should stop being irrelevant and run for office and become the change they want others to be.

    5. Re:"A threat to our freedoms" by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      Or one can try and justify that the give-a-shit level of The People is at an all-time low because they've come to realize just how fucking irrelevant they truly are.

      Maybe they have an overly inflated view because they do not understand representative government and because of posts like yours. "The People" are no better at governing than a mob. If 'The People' really think the current government is so terrible then they should stop being irrelevant and run for office and become the change they want others to be.

      *Damn mornings and their coffee.

    6. Re:"A threat to our freedoms" by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Whoa, did you just make a veiled call for violence? That is totally against Slashdot TOS. And against every civilized convention we have. Way to go...I mean we all know the Second Amendment is just compensation for something. We've heard it enough times. Anyone who likes guns is substituting for a small penis. Don't put yourself in that basket of deplorables.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    7. Re:"A threat to our freedoms" by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

      Now I wonder.. how else might the people be able to compel the government to represent them?

      By making a more representative government at the local level and state level before moving to the federal level. This can be done by voting in individuals who will pass laws to enable elections that are more fair and thus result in a more representative government. It will take work and time but it's the only sane way to get lasting reform. Violence solves nothing.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    8. Re:"A threat to our freedoms" by zifn4b · · Score: 2

      It is literally a threat to some freedoms you take for granted on the internet, right now for example. You don't get this, we know.

      I'm talking about the claim that Ajit Pai represents a "threat to our freedoms". I think that's sensationalist mumbo jumbo and not talking about what Ajit Pai is really guilty of. This type of talk is like a a little kid going to a parent and stamping their feet and screaming "Bobby is being mean to me! He's really mean and he's just super mean to everybody and someone shouldn't be allowed to do that." and of course the parent asks, "Why do you think Bobby is being mean?" to understand what the real claim is so they can attempt to respond to the issue appropriately. We can skip all the knee jerk emotional mumbo jumbo and get right to the core of the issue.

      I do agree that not upholding the de facto principles of Net Neutrality that have been in place for several decades swings the door wide open to turn the internet into a complete unusable shit hole. I don't disagree with that but that's not what this particular post is about.

      --
      We'll make great pets
    9. Re:"A threat to our freedoms" by zifn4b · · Score: 1

      Being dismissive of the larger impact and what the future looks like isn't going to serve future generations well either.

      Really, I'm being dismissive? Did you even read my post? I actually went further than net neutrality calling out the corporate corruption that is making the government be puppets on marionette strings not only with regard to Net Neutrality but in a lot of other areas as well and you call me dismissive of the big picture and not being concerned about our future as a country? Get out of here man.

      --
      We'll make great pets
    10. Re:"A threat to our freedoms" by zifn4b · · Score: 0

      "The People" are no better at governing than a mob.

      Who do you suggest represent us other than ordinary people than that aren't incompetent and can rationally make decisions? Let's look at some of our choices:

      - Politicians - some can't even form coherent sentences like George W. Bush and Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz in particular thought machine gun bacon made a good campaign advertisement. Sorry I don't see it there
      - Roman Catholic Church or some other religious organization - Believing in delusional things that there isn't any evidence for and making decisions based on prayer to some invisible thing? Sorry I don't see it there
      - US Chamber of Commerce/Corporate America - Well that's the party that we're criticizing for wanting to do away with Net Neutrality altogether to pave the way for advertising city and extortion of subscription fees for lower quality service. I'm pretty sure we all agree that's not a good

      So who's left then? Do you have any suggestions or just want to bitch and moan? :)

      --
      We'll make great pets
    11. Re:"A threat to our freedoms" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now I wonder.. how else might the people be able to compel the government to represent them?

      Widespread public backlash is actually often more effective than legislation. It creates outcomes that those in power and those with a financial stake in outcomes can't predict or control, and that makes them more willing to accept compromise. You act as if things not working exactly how you wanted them to work means they're completely broken.

    12. Re:"A threat to our freedoms" by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      How was my post bitching and moaning? Are you trying to be a twat or does it just come natural for you?

      If you are not a constituent of Cruz why is it your business that the people in his district elected him?

      Do you have anything better to offer instead of insults and mob rule?

    13. Re:"A threat to our freedoms" by zifn4b · · Score: 1

      Do you have anything better to offer instead of insults and mob rule?

      You find facts insulting. That's adorable. Let us all know when you find your magical fairy forest filled with unicorns with your rose colored glasses and can demonstrate that it exists.

      --
      We'll make great pets
    14. Re:"A threat to our freedoms" by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      You didn't post facts. You posted platitudes.

      I guess you are naturally a twat.

    15. Re:"A threat to our freedoms" by geekmux · · Score: 1

      Being dismissive of the larger impact and what the future looks like isn't going to serve future generations well either.

      Really, I'm being dismissive? Did you even read my post? I actually went further than net neutrality calling out the corporate corruption that is making the government be puppets on marionette strings not only with regard to Net Neutrality but in a lot of other areas as well and you call me dismissive of the big picture and not being concerned about our future as a country? Get out of here man.

      You were dismissive because you didn't think this was a threat to our Freedoms. The destruction of Net Neutrality ultimately creates censorship. Information is power. THIS is the reason I was dismissive of your comments. We agree on so many levels, but I disagree with your impact here. Much like our founding fathers 200+ years ago, I'm not worried about impact now. I'm worried about impact 50+ years into the future.

      Our Freedoms are important no matter the topic.

  10. Re:Manufactured Outrage by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 5, Interesting

    > If it were really that important, why didn't Obama implement it early in his tenure?

    The president was pretty busy, with Iraq and Afghanistan as wars he didn't start but needed to clean up, with the health care program, the difficulty of appointing any Cabinet staff in the face of an obstructionist Congress, and an economy reeling from two Asian wars and the housing market economic meltdown. I think we can safely say that he was _busy_.

    Moreover, the FCC is supposed to be an independent agency from the White House. So any guidance or promotion of particular policies at the FCC can take much longer because it can't be done by presidential mandate.

  11. What does it all mean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You need to read the FCC documents for yourself.

    Don't rely on Facebook, CNN, Google, big media or hollywood folks.

    They tell you what to feel rather than quoting the documents.

    That's ALWAYS scary.

  12. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  13. Re:Manufactured Outrage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your whining about the massive public outrage is Moscow-bought commentary, Selloutski. It has nothing to do with Obama, he was just there when it happened. Pull your head out of your ass and enjoy the free internet you retarded chatbot.

    Net Neutrality didn't go nearly far enough and this latest perversion will be undone by the next non-traitor not-going-to-prison ACTUAL PRESIDENT.

  14. 2006 Series of tubes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "The Internet wasn't broken in 2015 when these heavy-handed regulations were adopted,"

    2015? Ahhh lets remember 2006 and the various efforts to stop telcos slowing traffic to charge throttling fees..

    Here's Senator Stevens:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_of_tubes

    "A series of tubes" is a phrase coined originally as an analogy by then-United States Senator Ted Stevens (R-Alaska) to describe the Internet in the context of opposing network neutrality.[1] On June 28, 2006, he used this metaphor to criticize a proposed amendment to a committee bill. The amendment would have prohibited Internet Access providers such as AT&T, Comcast, Time Warner Cable, and Verizon Communications from charging fees to give some companies' data a higher priority in relation to other traffic. The metaphor has been widely ridiculed, particularly because Stevens displayed an extremely limited understanding of the Internet, even though he was in charge of regulating it

    They keep trying, the FCC blocks them, the Telcos go to court, or block in a slightly different way, and the FCC changes the rules to clamp down on it, and this cat and mouse game has gone on for over a decade. Pai of course knows as an ex Verizon lawyer he helped craft workarounds. He's trying to deceive.

    Why shouldn't Pai be answerable for his lies? Why is it extreme to expect him to do his job of regulating the monopoly telco industry so they don't screw over customers?

    1. Re:2006 Series of tubes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why shouldn't Pai be answerable for his lies? Why is it extreme to expect him to do his job of regulating the monopoly telco industry so they don't screw over customers?

      More importantly why would we allow someone with such an obvious conflict of interest to hold such a position?

      Forget Pai. I don't want this bullshit repeated in the future in any position. Perhaps it's time to start taking conflict of interest and applying it instead of continuing to ignore it whenever convenient.

    2. Re:2006 Series of tubes by Maritz · · Score: 2

      The whole reason he's in the fucking gig is because of the conflict of interest.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    3. Re: 2006 Series of tubes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This. Having a "conflict of interest" is a prerequisite for the FCC chairman position.

  15. SubjectIsSubject by p0p0 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Typical internet users.

    All Year

    Haha look at these silly internet cats!

    A Couple Weeks Before NN Vote

    OMG they're taking our internetz!

    A Week After Vote

    Haha look at these silly internet cats! Only $5.99 to access this site? What a deal!

    1. Re:SubjectIsSubject by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 1

      Only $5.99 to access this site?

      I've been asking for a good while for an actual example of this, but thus far nobody has been able to provide one. Can you?

    2. Re:SubjectIsSubject by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only $5.99 a month to watch Star Trek Discovery on CBS all access. And OBTW, CBS is NOT broadcasting Star Trek any other way.

    3. Re:SubjectIsSubject by WrongMonkey · · Score: 1

      If a content provider (like CBS or Netflix) charges for access, that is not a Net Neutrality issue. Net Neutrality is only violated if the ISP regulates access to particular content.

    4. Re:SubjectIsSubject by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      Only $5.99 to access this site?

      I've been asking for a good while for an actual example of this, but thus far nobody has been able to provide one. Can you?

      Well, prior to all this, when Comcast was subjecting users to 250GB limits, they decided that if you used the Comcast video on demand service to stream your shows, it didn't count against your 250GB allotment.

      I believe AT&T did the same a little earlier as well.

      After regulations came into force, mobile carriers were excluded because they made a convincing case that they must do "network management".

      What happened next as T-Mobile announced that certain video providers (who were paying T-Mobile) would no longer count towards your monthly limit. Shortly afterwards, Netflix joined in as well. This was known as zero-rating - instead of the data counting against your 5GB plan or something, it just wouldn't count. Other sites would be charged to your plan as normal, so your YouTube viewing would still count.

      Mobile carriers were soon regulated after that - because what's the point of "network management' if you're just going to make it so someone on a 1GB plan or less can stream Netflix 24/7, while someone who does YouTube needs to pay up?

      Funny thing - after mobile was regulated, many more started offering "unlimited data" plans. AT&T got rid of them shortly after the iPhone was released way back when, and there were a few people still grandfathered on such a plan. But shortly after this, T-Mobile declared that all video will be regulated down to 480p, and data would be unlimited. AT&T, Verizon, etc, all followed suit by offering their own unlimited data plans. The demand overwhelmed Verizon for a few months who found greatly reduced network speeds, but a small investment made things faster again.

    5. Re:SubjectIsSubject by Anubis+IV · · Score: 2

      Portuguese ISPs are already charging people extra each month on top of their base rate if those customers want unfettered access to popular sites. It was even reported here just a few weeks ago. The only reason someone with an account at Slashdot, such as yourself, wouldn't be aware of these sorts of examples is if you're intentionally burying your head in the sand.

      Now, if you're asking for a US-specific example, you won't find them, because—despite the false narrative to the contrary—net neutrality has been around in the US from the start of the world wide web, preventing exactly these sorts of shenanigans from happening.

      Originally, net neutrality was enforced because dial-up and DSL ISPs—which are classified as common carriers, meaning that they have to treat all data equally—were how we connected to the Internet. Later, even though the cable ISPs weren't under any legal obligation to respect net neutrality, they did so anyway because they weren't in a position to abandon net neutrality while remaining competitive with common carrier ISPs. Eventually, however, the cable ISPs became dominant, so they began to take advantage of their lack of competition and lack of regulation, which is when we saw Comcast and others begin engaging in various shenanigans (e.g. charging sites like Netflix extra to deliver packets that their customers were already paying Comcast to deliver).

      Thankfully, the FCC reclassified the cable companies as common carriers within a few years, meaning that the cable ISPs came under the exact same regulations that every ISP prior to them in the history of the Internet had been regulated under, namely, that they would be compelled to respect net neutrality, the same as all others before them.

      Frankly, despite being a registered Republican who never voted for Obama, I'm sick and tired of the false narrative "my" side has been spinning about net neutrality, and it sickened me when it became a politicized, partisan issue after Obama voiced his support for net neutrality. "My" side has been suggesting it's an unconscionable form of heavy-handed regulation enacted by a dictatorial President, when the truth of the matter is that the FCC was simply closing a loophole that allowed newcomers (the cable ISPs) to avoid regulations that had been in place from the very first days of the world wide web.

    6. Re:SubjectIsSubject by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What you are describing happened with net neutrality. The point is answering the question, "Why is non-net neutrality bad?" with examples.

      Are there any examples of an ISP charging for access to specific sites before net neutrality?

    7. Re:SubjectIsSubject by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      You're referring to the average stupid person. That's not all of us though. Some of us have to play the role of the Adults.

    8. Re: SubjectIsSubject by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, that's not net neutrality.

    9. Re:SubjectIsSubject by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 1

      Portuguese ISPs are already charging people extra each month on top of their base rate [boingboing.net] if those customers want unfettered access to popular sites. It was even reported here [slashdot.org] just a few weeks ago.

      And that misreported/deliberately skewed nonsense was soundly debunked in the comments to that very article, as well as in the comments to the original Twitter post linked in the article. That Portuguese model doesn't block the sites at issue at all, but simply allows you to pay extra to exempt certain services from your account's bandwidth cap. That has jack to do with outright blocking access to sites sans an extra charge (as OP posited) or even treating different traffic differently on their network -- it's just a different way for you to effectively upgrade the limits on your data plan for the services you use most.

      The only reason someone with an account at Slashdot, such as yourself, wouldn't be aware of these sorts of examples is if you're intentionally burying your head in the sand.

      I'm painfully aware, but it's not an actual example for the above reasons (completely apart from the fact that it's not in the U.S. and thus has nothing to do with thus current brouhaha). Hopefully you didn't just rely on the headline without looking into it at least a bit. That's a dangerous game to play on Slashdot these days, as I'm sure you know.

      Now, if you're asking for a US-specific example, you won't find them

      Yup.

      Originally, net neutrality was enforced because dial-up and DSL ISPs—which are classified as common carriers, meaning that they have to treat all data equally—were how we connected to the Internet.

      Having lived through the days of Compuserve, AOL, and the like, I really don't think the implications of what you describe were the same as what NetNeut proponents now want. ISPs certainly had to send all data down the pipe between them and me (the LAN, if you will) with no discrimination. But that has nothing to do with the rate at which the ISP exchanges packets with the outside world (the WAN, continuing my analogy). ISPs with their own ecosystems like AOL certainly served up their own swill at faster rates than they did Internet traffic. I don't see that as qualitatively different than any of the supposed oppressive behavior I see people bitching about today.

    10. Re:SubjectIsSubject by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 1

      Well, prior to all this, when Comcast was subjecting users to 250GB limits, they decided that if you used the Comcast video on demand service to stream your shows, it didn't count against your 250GB allotment.

      I believe AT&T did the same a little earlier as well.

      You mean a provider's LAN costs less per unit of data at a given speed than its WAN, and they're able to pass on that savings to customers? Knock me over with a feather. Clearly that sort of oppression must be stopped so everyone can pay full price for every bit that enters their home.

      because what's the point of "network management' if you're just going to make it so someone on a 1GB plan or less can stream Netflix 24/7, while someone who does YouTube needs to pay up?

      If NetFlix colocates a server on the ISP's LAN, then yes, Virginia -- that's a completely different value proposition for them than having to budget and pay for external bandwidth. I take it you'd prefer regulation that prevents companies from coming up with creative ways to provide people what they want (NetFlix being about 2/3 of Internet traffic last time I checked) at a lower cost?

      And in any event, what has any of this to do with OP's original claim of an extra cost to access a given site at all?

  16. The Dude Looks Like A Special-Education Drop-out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But then, he IS a republican. Still. Dude looks like the weirdest of retards anywhere.

  17. Re:Manufactured Outrage by Freischutz · · Score: 0

    This is completely manufactured outrage. This regulatory stunt of the Obama's administration was an overreach of the magnitude beyond that of any of Trumps, but it's good because it claims to be "network neutrality" even though it's nothing of the sort. If it were really that important, why didn't Obama implement it early in his tenure? Oh, that's right, because it was completely a political stunt.

    If you were honest, you'd read what Pai wrote about many of the rollbacks of regulation. Of course, he's a Trump appointee, so he must be evil and lying. I'm sure he wasn't evil and lying when he was an Obama appointee. Much of the regulation pushed through the FCC by the Obama administration was a deliberate departure from the intent and letter of the law. This is one of them. Changing a law that clearly says "voice telephony" to apply to all data transmission demonstrates contempt for the law. Further, giving all internet metadata to the various LEOs under CALEA was, at best, an oversight, but more likely a malicious attempt to bypass many of the protections that we regained when the NSA spying was judged illegal.

    Everybody is always being so unfair to Trump, SAD! :-(

  18. Re: The Dude Looks Like A Special-Education Drop-o by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Typical leftist - racist and now hating on people with special needs.

  19. Ajit Pai should play hockey. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    He stick handled around the core issues here beautifully. Even the article in the Verge missed the key point of why the ISPs are now in a position where they can abuse their monopolies to a greater extent than they already do. Instead he beat the horses by avoiding talking at all about the inevitable routing access restrictions that are about to castrate internet traffic by allowing US ISPs to become gate keepers of the content access.

    I see the day when for instance Comcast whole home wifi will not allow unfettered access to any streaming services except the ones that they control and are paid to allow. Obviously they are going to go after Youtube and Netflix and downgrade their access. We saw this coming long ago when the original Scroogle campaign was at a fever pitch before Obama was elected. It is bad enough that the assholes control the television networks and are taking them down now that OTA is essentially dead. Next on the block will be FM radio and internet streaming radio.

    Regarding Pai's statements that current regulations are making internet access in remote areas less profitable. The implications are that to get the job done letting new non profit companies and towns create their own connections to the WWW is a step out of line for these businessmen in jackboots. Who then turn around and complain to the FCC that cheap neighborhood shared systems will be a threat to their bottom line. They want it both ways in essence and they are getting it with Trump. There is no reason now why digital two way signal broadcast technology cannot service smaller remote communities right now. Sure if you are a Neo Nazi out in the wilderness of Oregon or Colorado you are still going to be SOL on high speed internet without using a really expensive satellite hookup. No these jack booted bunch of thieves the short sighted Trump voters put into power are about to sell the whole fucking farm and the expansion of internet access to the poor and the remote will actually slow under Trump and the castrated bunch of gutless myrmidons that currently control the house and senate. His Make America great again pledge to his constituents is being exposed for what it is, little more than a cruel joke! The truth is infrastructure and services in the US are about to become even more privatized and run down than they already are, full speed ahead and grease the hog trough with all the payola you can bring to Washington though. Trickle down theory of making the rich richer through government handouts does not work except perhaps in Moscow when getting a free golden shower.

    1. Re:Ajit Pai should play hockey. by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      For what it's worth, my family in rural Virginia had faster Internet access than I could get in NYC for a long time.

  20. Re:Manufactured Outrage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dan Heskett? Are you for real? You just made that up from whole cloth and pulled it straight out of your ass! What a laughable pile of dogshit you just coughed up there. It's hard to surprise me anymore but wow, you are nuts.

  21. Too bad we couldn't all just pitch in a dollar... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Instead of hitting the petition, we could have all just purchased a few of these corrupt politicans by putting a dollar in the hat. $77,456 at this count.

  22. Elections have consequences by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Elections have consequences.

    Anyone know who said that?

  23. ISP's own the pipe by p51d007 · · Score: 1

    They spent the money to develop the fiber optics high speed "pipes". Why is it the governments business what speed, or how they control it? If someone doesn't like it, develop their own pipe?

    1. Re:ISP's own the pipe by geekmux · · Score: 2

      They spent the money to develop the fiber optics high speed "pipes". Why is it the governments business what speed, or how they control it? If someone doesn't like it, develop their own pipe?

      With the amount of corruption and influence already in place by those in control, what in the hell makes you think the incumbents will play fair with anyone who wants to stand up and develop their "own pipe"?!?

      If you really want to know how that bullshit will work out, take a look at the history of failed CLECs.

    2. Re:ISP's own the pipe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      For the same reason I can't start my own power company because I don't like the local utility services. I can't just start dropping poles into public right of way.

      Without "net neutrality of power" the power company could charge you more to run your oven because they want you to eat out. That sort of seems ludicrous to any rational person. Kilowatts is kilowatts and I should be able to power whatever I want with them. Note there are "setbacks" that you can opt-in with the power company. They will change the thermostat on high demand days to reduce demand on the overall system. That's somewhat reasonable, but it's opt-in and you typically get a discount for opting in.

      With the advent of mesh networking and 5G, starting a new ISP might be easier than before. You just need to get frequency space from the FCC. Good luck with that.

    3. Re:ISP's own the pipe by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      Because just like the electric company, or the water works, they're acting like public utilities and should be treated as such. There's no competition...they are virtual local monopolies.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    4. Re:ISP's own the pipe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They aren't as much of a monopoly as they once where. For instance, I can get internet from my phone company of my cable company. However, the vertical integration is an issue. Verizon has a vested interest in my buying _their_ on demand services. In fact, enough interest to throttle access to other on demand venues. Just search verizon and any other on demand provide like netflix.

      An analogy to the traditional utilities would be power company also selling ovens. You can buy a third party oven but they will charge twice as much (or whatever they set) for the electrical power for it. It used to be this way with the phone company. You couldn't attach your own equipment. You had to lease equipment from the phone company. A monopoly on the service and the equipment. Ludicrous. And the story was "We can't trust third parties to follow standards."

    5. Re:ISP's own the pipe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They spent the money to develop the fiber optics high speed "pipes".
      Why is it the governments business what speed, or how they control it?
      If someone doesn't like it, develop their own pipe?

      You seem to be under the delusion that ISPs do research and development.

    6. Re:ISP's own the pipe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No Universities developed fiber optics. They may have deployed them but they probably got massive government money to do so.
       
        The teleco's are evil and incompetent, if the government ran the internet it would only be incompetent, a net win.

    7. Re:ISP's own the pipe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you on crack?

      ISPs receive massive amounts of subsidies for their infrastructure.

      Also, where the hell do you think money for ARPANET came from?

    8. Re: ISP's own the pipe by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Because that pipe is on government granted easements, and operated under government regulation, and subsidised by government?

      They should be thrilled we are only asking them to treat all traffic the same.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
  24. Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    GOP, money grubbing lawyer cocksucking dothead.

    He deserves to walk a plank and be fed to real sharks.

    1. Re:Good by pablo_max · · Score: 1

      nothing like injecting some good old fashion casual racism to really drive your point home... Good job!

  25. You deserve it by pablo_max · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I am sure I will get flamed for this, but to be honest, Americans deserve to lose their Internet freedom. The vast majority are unwilling to lift a finger to protect it. Most are unwilling to take an active roll in their political system to the point where someone like Donald Freaken Trump got elected to POTUS. I borderline retarded sociopath of a TV personality.
    That the heck did people think would happen?
    So, yes, you deserve to lose the internet. You deserve to lose your health care coverage. You deserve to pay higher taxes to the rich can pay less. You deserve to breath poison air and drink poison water after the dismantling of the EPA.
    Ultimately, this who situation will be good for the world.
    Europe will finally be forced to get off their asses and take their own destiny into the their hands. Same for Asia. It will shift the balance of power around in a way to create better long term stability.
    Let's face, politically and socially, America has been on the way down for a long time. I think that only by hitting rock bottom will Americans wake up and say, fuck this shit! Enough and enough!! Then, finally take their country back from the oligarchy which it has become.
    I do wish Americans every chance to get back on track, because they also deserve that.

    1. Re:You deserve it by Baron_Yam · · Score: 1

      The problem is that SOME Americans need to have their noses rubbed in shit to understand they're soiling their own nest. The rest of 'em just get to enjoy the health risks even if they're actively trying to prevent the situation.

      Beyond that... damn it, you shouldn't have to spend all your free time trying to stop assholes from ruining your life. Politicians are there to handle things for you, so you can do your job instead of theirs... and they're all dropping the ball.

      Don't forget, it's the party that chose its representatives, and it's the party that is currently willfully ignoring their options for taking corrective action... because they're choosing power over what's right. The average shmuck voted for the choice they were given, and even then the system passed their votes to a second tier that was created specifically to stop someone like Trump from getting elected... and anyone who tried to do that job was prevented from doing so.

      Rugged individualism, unfettered capitalism, propaganda-fed nationalism, and a lack of respect for education. That's what gave the USA what it has today, and that's what's taking it away again.

    2. Re:You deserve it by WrongMonkey · · Score: 1

      What country do you live in where net neutrality is protected by law?

  26. Facebook and Amazon ... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

    were able to develop exactly because of "net neutrality" -- even AOL, which had shopping and messaging businesses didn't cut off access to its future competition.

    1. Re:Facebook and Amazon ... by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      What happened to Vonage? You know, the one nobody would touch because you could never tell if Comcast or Verizon would block it on any given month and cut you off from 911 service.

  27. Another interview with Pai by volkris · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Pai also sat down with Reason a few months ago to discuss his goals as FCC chairman and his argument for reversing the Open Internet Order. You can see that interview here.

    But Slashdot is doing a disservice conflating two issues here. Submitters' abuse of the online comment process has nothing to do with the propriety of reversing the last chairman's effort to regulate the internet.

    It needs to be emphasized loudly: regulatory bodies are not democratic. Congress is the place where representatives hash out the direction of the US government, and commissions like the FCC are to follow the direction decided upon legislatively. They are not to act as a shadow legislature overriding and undermining the decisions made by Congress.

    If you don't like that Congress decided we should have a light-touch approach to the internet, then great! Write your congressman and work to change the law. Meanwhile, the FCC will address the issues brought up in its comment period regardless of who submitted them as the law directs it to do.

    1. Re: Another interview with Pai by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck you. Fucking ass kissing Russian cocksucker.

    2. Re:Another interview with Pai by orgelspieler · · Score: 2

      You know what else is not democratic? An FCC chairman who decides to ignore millions of complaints because they didn't fit his agenda. This isn't a matter of implementing a crystal clear law; it is fuzzy. This is a industry-captured regulatory body intentionally ignoring the intent of a law in order to hegemonize the Internet in favor of their benefactors.

      One other thing, the notion that Congress is where every little detail about the implementation of a law gets hashed out is patently false. The CFR has been around for something like 80 years. The nondelegation doctrine, as interpreted by the SCOTUS in 1928 only requires that Congress provide an "intelligible principle" to guide the executive branch. It would be ridiculous for the Congress to be expected to explain what is and isn't covered by copyright as new art forms arise, or which drugs should be approved, or how to best protect workers from benzene. They're too busy fundraising and running the country into the ground to actually explain their laws in detail.

      Look at the ACA. It was what, a billion pages long? And even it left a bunch of questions to be answered by others. Can you imagine if they had tried to hash out every single detail?!

    3. Re:Another interview with Pai by Agripa · · Score: 1

      One other thing, the notion that Congress is where every little detail about the implementation of a law gets hashed out is patently false. The CFR has been around for something like 80 years. The nondelegation doctrine, as interpreted by the SCOTUS in 1928 only requires that Congress provide an "intelligible principle" to guide the executive branch. It would be ridiculous for the Congress to be expected to explain what is and isn't covered by copyright as new art forms arise, or which drugs should be approved, or how to best protect workers from benzene. They're too busy fundraising and running the country into the ground to actually explain their laws in detail.

      Look at the ACA. It was what, a billion pages long? And even it left a bunch of questions to be answered by others. Can you imagine if they had tried to hash out every single detail?!

      The buck stops with Congress. Anything being done under their authority is their responsibility.

  28. Remember guys: When in the Course of Human Events by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Always state your grievances first, make sure you sign it, then shoot them.

  29. This Problem WIll Sort Itself Out by i_ate_god · · Score: 1

    AT&T will most likely own CNN, and Comcast owns MSNBC.

    So when conservatives realise that Fox News, Breitbart, World Net Daily, and all the other right wing rags, aren't getting special treatment but MSNBC and CNN are, then they will bring back net neutrality. *shrug*

    --
    I'm god, but it's a bit of a drag really...
    1. Re:This Problem WIll Sort Itself Out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AT&T will most likely own CNN, and Comcast owns MSNBC.

      So when conservatives realise that Fox News, Breitbart, World Net Daily, and all the other right wing rags, aren't getting special treatment but MSNBC and CNN are, then they will bring back net neutrality. *shrug*

      You mean NBC minus MS don't you? Unless MS has nothing to do with NBC therefore has no interest in Comcast. Seems that the influence that MS has on this situation is much greater than it appears something like the rights to the show Bay Watch reruns being bought out by Baystar Capital. The whole show in Washington is turning into a bad episode of a Laugh In routine with a loud mouth, self obsessed, ego manic version of Wilhelm von Nord Bach who is now pissed at the world for not making it to Time's cover two years in a row. Verrrry interesting.. but it stinks!

      Anyway you look at it the predatory capitalist moves made by Gates and Co. years ago are finally starting to pay off in Washington. Too bad that the predatory purchase of the digital rights to display great art in digital format is starting to backfire on the assholes. The French government and even the Kremlin is starting to get pissed at Gates for this set of moves.

      All roads lead to Redmond when it comes to what is happening with the ISPs and this set of circumstances. The fix is in and the control of all digital transmissions by a small cartel of corporations that have eaten the broadcast industry is a huge problem especially when we also rely on them for our communications. Facebook has become a digital post office, Google has become the local library and the ISPs have become your broadcast provider who can soon on a whim exclude you from your postal services and library access and charge you per episode for entertainment.

  30. Just Signed by dcw3 · · Score: 1

    Thanks, I was #78203

    --
    Just another day in Paradise
  31. Voted for the wrong guy by sjbe · · Score: 2

    The best chance to keep Pai from doing damage to net neutrality was last November. As long as Trump is in the White House it is probably going to be difficult to keep net neutrality as the law of the land. Best hope right now is to use the courts to mitigate the damage and drag out the process until a new administration can be put in place and Pai can be replaced.

  32. Lobbying in DC by Baron_Yam · · Score: 2

    >Let's rather go collect some money and buy us a ho ourselves.

    It might be better to bankroll a professional lobbyist, so you have the potential to persuade more than one politician. Give your lobbyist a list of issues to work and a budget for researchers, lawyers, and bribes (I mean.. err, an entertainment budget for business lunches, etc). They're going to need an office, too.

    Now, the lobbyist is going to cost about US 150K + bonuses and benefits. A legislative researcher pulls about 50K, and you're probably going to fork out another 80K for the lawyer. To be honest... you're going to want someone to handle office administration, reception, and errands, so probably throw another 35-40K in there for that. Oh, and you're going to pay around US 4500/month for office space.

    You're getting close to 400K just to start up, and that's before you've figured out how much it costs to actually DO something with that office and those people. It's not unusual to spend millions on lobbying in DC.

    So... maybe 1.5 million per year to start. Can you crowd fund that? Given the events of the last year, are you prepared to show all the money comes from Americans? How are you going to decide which issues your team should work on? (I can answer the last question - break your crowd funding attempt up by subject, divide efforts by the budget proportions). Who is going to give the orders to the team, judge their effectiveness, etc.?

    It's perhaps not as big a job as you might think, but it's not simple, either.

    1. Re:Lobbying in DC by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      The money will in the end come from one American, yes.

      Do you think any legislation to that matter would bother going any further than this?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Lobbying in DC by Baron_Yam · · Score: 1

      >The money will in the end come from one American, yes.

      Funny you say that. I was googling for citizen PACs to see if any already existed... and there's a Citizen SuperPAC. It has only two donors of significance, and one of them is obscured behind a corporate front.

    3. Re:Lobbying in DC by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Hey, if I wanted to bribe politicians, I'd also try to get some kind of Patreon scam going.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:Lobbying in DC by Agripa · · Score: 1

      >Let's rather go collect some money and buy us a ho ourselves.

      It might be better to bankroll a professional lobbyist, so you have the potential to persuade more than one politician. Give your lobbyist a list of issues to work and a budget for researchers, lawyers, and bribes (I mean.. err, an entertainment budget for business lunches, etc). They're going to need an office, too.

      Now, the lobbyist is going to cost about US 150K + bonuses and benefits. A legislative researcher pulls about 50K, and you're probably going to fork out another 80K for the lawyer. To be honest... you're going to want someone to handle office administration, reception, and errands, so probably throw another 35-40K in there for that. Oh, and you're going to pay around US 4500/month for office space.

      You're getting close to 400K just to start up, and that's before you've figured out how much it costs to actually DO something with that office and those people. It's not unusual to spend millions on lobbying in DC.

      So... maybe 1.5 million per year to start. Can you crowd fund that? Given the events of the last year, are you prepared to show all the money comes from Americans? How are you going to decide which issues your team should work on? (I can answer the last question - break your crowd funding attempt up by subject, divide efforts by the budget proportions). Who is going to give the orders to the team, judge their effectiveness, etc.?

      It's perhaps not as big a job as you might think, but it's not simple, either.

      And then behind your back, concentrated interests will pay your lobbyist more to sabotage your efforts while assuring you of progress. Ask Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms how that works.

  33. Yeah, because petitions *always* make a difference by mark-t · · Score: 1

    If they weren't willing to pay attention to letters, what makes anyone think they'd pay attention to a petition?

  34. Content makers versus wire owners by sjbe · · Score: 2

    Right now the mainstream GOP is sticking to principle - ie that regulating either is bad and the status quo should stay.

    The GOP only pretends to be against regulation. They just want THEIR regulations. They want regulations that reduce taxes but those are still regulations. They want individual freedom unless it is something like abortion or homosexuality that offends their sensibilities and then they are all about regulation. They want regulations that favor money making over clean air. They want regulations that hurt worker's rights to organize.

    I think it's fair to assume Trump is not overly concerned with abstract principles.

    True but he doesn't seem concerned with tangible principles either.

    And the Net Neutrality advocates won't confront the fact that their argument for net neutrality should apply to Google and FB which are decidedly non neutral for political content.

    Net neutrality has NOTHING to do with political bent of content makers. It is about giving control of the content to the companies that own the wires rather than those actually making the content. Google doesn't control the wires in most places and they aren't a monopoly anywhere. Contrast with Comcast which is basically the only wired provider of internet service to my house. (Wireless is not a viable option for various reasons) I don't have to use Google and I don't use Facebook but I have limited choices in internet service providers even if I include wireless options in the mix. It is trivial for me to use a search engine that isn't Google but it is nigh impossible for me to switch ISPs. You don't seem to grasp the importance of that distinction.

    It's hard to sympathize much with either side really.

    Only if you don't understand what net neutrality is. I want my ISP and backhaul providers to stay the hell out of deciding whose content should get priority. That should be my decision, not theirs.

    And it's more likely that both the Democrats and Republicans decide on regulation based on whether it helps companies that donate to them and hurts ones who don't than that they're acting out of anything resembling principle.

    Of course they do. But as long as that results in the right thing happening then we can live with it. The good news is that there are probably more companies in favor of net neutrality than against it including some heavy hitters in the tech world.

    1. Re:Content makers versus wire owners by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      I want my ISP and backhaul providers to stay the hell out of deciding whose content should get priority. That should be my decision, not theirs.

      That's what I keep telling the network engineers at my company. But for some reason, they just laugh at me.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    2. Re:Content makers versus wire owners by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. It appears to be hollywood against the rest of the world period!

  35. Re: Manufactured Outrage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Obstructionist congress in 2009 for cabinet positions? Really?

    The rest of your list is fine, no need to embellish - the Senate had 57 Democrats and two independents that may as well be democrats. That Senate confirmed Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State 94-2 and a tax cheat to Secretary of Treasury with 60 votes. The only thing that even comes close to "obstruction" was two bad nominees for Commerce, and a Secretary was still confirmed by April.

    Obstructionist Senate, right. Some of these nominees practically passed on unanimous consent.

  36. Random Thoughts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From a semi-liberal...

    Petitions make you feel good but do little. Especially when addressed to somebody who hates you.

    FCC is outside the NY AG's jurisdiction. It doesn't have to respond to him. He's welcome to bring suit in Federal court once a decision is made, like anybody else, but if FCC covers its procedural tracks (APA is the main attack vector) then there isn't much of a case regardless of the optics.

    Google, Amazon, and Facebook aren't subject to net neutrality. ISPs are.

    1. Re: Random Thoughts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Blah blah blah blah blah blah...

      Semi-liberal whining little shit who probably drinks almond milk in her latte. Fuck you.

  37. missed opportunity by Thud457 · · Score: 1

    strangely, FTD only delivers succulents, not cacti.

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  38. Re:Yeah, because petitions *always* make a differe by dcw3 · · Score: 1

    Because there are enough people like you who can't spend the 2 minutes it takes to sign, and yet post here complaining about it.

    --
    Just another day in Paradise
  39. Verge's "list" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's all Republican. Where's the rest? You're full of shit if you think Democrats haven't taken money either (https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000000094). It fits too well with the "everyone knows Rep. are evil" narrative, and they know that, so they must have an agenda.

    1. Re: Verge's "list" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But what about?

      What about how your mom was fucking the milkman?

    2. Re:Verge's "list" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's all Republican. Where's the rest? You're full of shit if you think Democrats haven't taken money either (https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000000094). It fits too well with the "everyone knows Rep. are evil" narrative, and they know that, so they must have an agenda.

      The way I interpreted the list is that it is a list of the representatives that voted to repeal. So even though the contributions to the ones who voted against repeal is not show it show exactly what it cost the ISPs to have the executive order rescinded. Run a total on the amounts and you have a relative cost benefit rating for the legalized bribery for this one particular purchase made by one segment of the media.

      Obviously the only reason why ACA has not been shot down is that the once lucrative Health Insurance industry does not have quite as much influence and the ability to do spread enough dark money around to repeal Obama care otherwise Trump would have came through on that promise. It is interesting that the drug companies and hospital corporations have not quite spread enough grease around Washington yet to do the deed though. I guess they are waiting till 2018 to see if the Retrumplicans will last that long. But you can almost bet that they will be greasing the Donocrats and Rewhateverpublicans very soon if they are not at it already.

      This has nothing to do with liberalism or rabid capitalism it has everything to do with the costs involved with the concept that "this is just the cost of doing business these days". Essentially a cruel Adam Smith come Charles Darwin version of survival of the ones with the best choices of where and when to grease the wheels. In the mean time the countries infrastructure building plans are reduced to oil pipe dreams and a vision of a great wall to stop the influx of cheap labor to build infrastructure. Brilliant management guys! Make America Great Again ...my ass

  40. "Only" interview? by John+Jorsett · · Score: 1

    Leading up to the announcement, I've heard at least four podcast interviews in which he makes the case for scuttling NN. And does so quite well, I might add.

  41. Email disallowed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Went there to sign and found my account no longer existed. Recreated it and then tried to sign and it said my email was disallowed. No way to contact anyone at whitehouse.gov either...

    1. Re:Email disallowed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You probably actually commented at the FCC, rather than having your email used for one of the thousands of canned comments in favor of cancelling net neutrality. Your email is therefore banned from use on federal systems as a spammer.

    2. Re:Email disallowed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You probably actually commented at the FCC, rather than having your email used for one of the thousands of canned comments in favor of cancelling net neutrality. Your email is therefore banned from use on federal systems as a spammer.

      Oh boy if they have actually set up AI to exclude citizens with the wrong view point from communicating with their congress critters this is 1984 on steroids. If this is the case the big brother state has happened and were all fucked.

  42. You need to boil that into a bumper sticker by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    or the other side wins. You need a message. Half the reason Trump won is 'Make America Great Again' is way better than "I'm with her".

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  43. Re: Manufactured Outrage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah yeah yeah but poor Obama... who actually did very little as a senator (checking his voting record, it's abysmal) and the same little as POTUS. His economy stank for 8 years, but, he did sit back and scold congress to get something done a whole lot, ignored ISIS until it was too late, blamed Bush for almost everything else, never accepted fault for anything, ever, wrote a lot of executive orders; plus, lots of golfing, visiting a tropical area (Hawaii), and doing the late night talk show circuit as a narcissistic celebrity.
    Hell, turns out he was Trump before Trump.. only Trump's economy is a lot better.

  44. I signed it. And adjusted the office thermostat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't think either one is connected to anything that matters.

    Please, sir, may I have some more?

  45. The Numbers are dropping? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I had the Petition up in a web browser and it showed 18,000 or so more signatures required. I refreshed, out of curiosity, and it went to 19,000 more signatures required?

    Since I only logged onto this site initially a couple of hours ago, I'm wondering if they are they cleaning up the weekend's crap, or are playing with numbers?

  46. Honest question about NN by aepervius · · Score: 1

    What will happens, if say , the rest of the world decide to go for NN, but the US does not and make tiered access ? Maybe I am missing something, but would not that incentive company to actually move to other countries ?

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
    1. Re:Honest question about NN by Gilgaron · · Score: 1

      ...what problem would that solve? The absence of NN is potentially bad for the citizens of the USA, and the corporations that want open access to that market.

    2. Re:Honest question about NN by WrongMonkey · · Score: 1

      China has absolutely no expectation of net neutrality. But companies like Baidu, Alibaba and Weibo still operate and thrive there.

  47. The Verge's List by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Should also include each member's rape histories. Just to demonstrate the character of the individuals.

  48. Reason Magazine interviewed Pai LAST WEEK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The only interview? Really? Not quite:

    https://reason.com/blog/2017/11/21/ajit-pai-net-neutrality-podcast

    http://reason.com/blog/2017/11/21/ajit-pai-we-are-returning-to-the-origina

  49. Re:Manufactured Outrage by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

    You can't de-manufacture the outrage with this sort of reasoned logic, either. Might as well be pissing up a rope. The fix is in, and the people demand that the Feds regulate the Internet. Pai isn't going to stop it, either. CNN and Fox is going to be protected from foreign news outlets, and Facebook and Google are right on board with censoring any non-government-approved sources of information.

    --
    "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
    --- Jerry Garcia
  50. Re:Manufactured Outrage by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 0

    I wondered when the NeoMcCarthyites would show up to claim Russia bought the presidency for $100,000 in Facebook ads. Didn't take long at all...

    --
    "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
    --- Jerry Garcia
  51. Golfing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh my, yes, Trump has been mega-busy! So much golfing to do, so little time...

  52. typical NPR interview by orgelspieler · · Score: 1

    NPR pulls punches all the time. They're so afraid of being labelled unfair liberals that they refuse to ask republicans anything even resembling a tough question. Then when Al Franken air gropes somebody they freak the fuck out as if he raped babies. So annoying. Our local station even has a climate denier on as a guest on a regular basis, because they want to appear balanced. Maybe if the orange shitgibbon starts calling them fake news, I'd have a little more faith in them.

  53. Drowining in Trump's swamp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At every possible turn Trump installs industry puppets having spent their entire lives fighting the very institutions they are now running.

    Whether it's the recent hilarity of Trump attempting to install Mick Mulvaney to consumer financial protection. Nothing says fuck you any louder to the voter than politicians attempting to discredit organizations dedicated to protecting their own constituents.

    Scott Pruitt climate change denier extraordinaire appointed to run EPA.

    Tom Marino's hilariously unsuccessful bid to further corrupt the DEA.

    Devos fierce advocate of anything but public education heading the department.

    Cheerleading tax policy that will give away billions to the wealthy while everyone else gets scraps and trillions of new debt is piled on. A policy in which broad consensus exists there will not be any mythical offsetting growth except dividends and corporate profits that will go to the 1% and be perpetually hoarded.

    The future of the Internet has never been brighter for a handful of the nations largest monopoly/duopoly ISPs with industry shill Ajit Pie at the helm of FCC.

    People are getting wise... even Trump supporters are beginning to take note of whose side Trump is really on... Who Trump actually really cares about. Not by his words.. by what the fuck he is actually doing in office.

  54. Re: Manufactured Outrage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You haven't written one true statement. Almost everything you've written is false.

    Trump played more golf in a month, than Obama did in his whole 8 years.

  55. Re: Manufactured Outrage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lol, you are a moron. Seriously. Get the partisan dick out of your mouth.

  56. Re: Manufactured Outrage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ummm did you read his post? Sounds like you just ASSUMED a bunch of shit and drew your own conclusion to fit your narrative.

    Your trolling is super weak. Step your game up.

    "Real recognizes real, and you don't look familiar"

  57. Re:Manufactured Outrage by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

    If it were really that important, why didn't Obama implement it early in his tenure?

    Because it wasn't a problem at the time?

    Prior to cable ISPs, all other ISPs (e.g. dial-up and DSL) were classified as common carriers, but cable ISPs were able to sneak through a loophole because they had started in a different industry. Despite that, cable ISPs originally respected net neutrality because they needed to remain competitive with the dominant dial-up and DSL ISPs who were being compelled to respect net neutrality. It wasn't until cable ISPs achieved dominance that they were finally in a position where they could take advantage of the loophole, which is when the FCC began making attempts at closing that loophole, though it took them a few tries and a few years to succeed at doing so.

    Of course, he's a Trump appointee, so he must be evil and lying.

    As you said, he was originally an Obama appointee, but my opinion of him has nothing to do with who appointed him. Rather, I, along with plenty of others here, were actually quite willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, especially after the previous chair of the FCC defied many of our expectations, having come from a background as a telecom lobbyist. I was willing to withhold my judgment of Pai until he first had a chance to prove himself. Now that he's shown his colors, yes, I think that he's evil and lying, but it has nothing to do with who appointed him. It's simply based on the actions he's chosen to take.

    Much of the regulation pushed through the FCC by the Obama administration was a deliberate departure from the intent and letter of the law. This is one of them.

    Not so. While I can't speak to other regulations (none of which are relevant to the topic at hand anyway), the federal appeals court specifically said (as it was striking down an actual regulatory overreach on the part of the FCC) that the FCC had the authority to regulate cable ISPs by reclassifying them as common carriers, so the FCC's doing so was most certainly in accordance with the intent and letter of the law. Moreover, it was in line with the regulations imposed on every single prior ISP in the history of the world wide web, so these are far from being new, arbitrary, or heavy-handed regulations.

  58. Re: Manufactured Outrage by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

    Yea, did you?

    Your whining about the massive public outrage is Moscow-bought commentary

    the next non-traitor not-going-to-prison ACTUAL PRESIDENT

    Pretty deranged, NeoMcCarthyist crap from a TDS sufferer.

    --
    "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
    --- Jerry Garcia
  59. Re:Manufactured Outrage by CrashNBrn · · Score: 2

    If it was actually supposed to be independent then the FCC's rules of governance wouldn't force weighting membership to the ruling party: 3 to 2.

  60. STFU Trumpologist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let us know when Trump finally accomplishes something.

  61. Re: The Dude Looks Like A Special-Education Drop-o by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Typical leftist - racist and now hating on people with special needs.

    1.) Parent never said anything related to race.
    2.) Not with hate, but you did support the claim that he has special needs.

  62. ...especially in rural and low-income urban areas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "...especially in rural and low-income urban areas"

    Nobody has said this ever and meant it. "We'd really like to invest in the highest cost areas for the customers with the lowest lifetime value." How do people get away with this shit?

  63. Anonymous by kattisch · · Score: 1

    Where is ANONYMOUS when you need them?

  64. Re: Manufactured Outrage by AutodidactLabrat · · Score: 1

    Yeah, those 18 million NEW JOBS on his watch never happened, right?
    And the Congress just SAILED through his judges, right?
    And his executive orders were never ruled unconstitutional, unlike Trump
    Go suck Neil Cavuto's A$$ fool!

  65. Re:Manufactured Outrage by AutodidactLabrat · · Score: 1

    No 18 million new jobs, right?
    No RECORD HIGH GROWTH in the stock markets, right?
    Idiot

  66. Pai Is A Brahmin From India by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And Brahmin Are The Most Corrupt https://www.quora.com/Which-ca...

  67. Re:Yeah, because petitions *always* make a differe by mark-t · · Score: 1

    To be sure, It is a point of interest that there has never been any petition serving the public interest that I have ever signed which has resulted in any action being taken in favor of what I was signing the petition for. In general, if something requires a petition to stop, the decision has actually already been made, and you can't change it.