Venezuela Will Force Bitcoin Miners To Register With the Government (themerkle.com)

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Venezuela Will Force Bitcoin Miners To Register With the Government (themerkle.com)

Posted by BeauHD on Monday December 18, 2017 @10:00PM from the violation-of-privacy dept.

schwit1 shares a report from The Merkle: No one will be surprised to hear the Venezuelan government isn't too keen on Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. Since Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies can't be regulated or controlled by the government in any official capacity, they could damage the country's brittle economy even further. As a result, the government has imposed new rules for anyone mining cryptocurrency. To be more specific, all miners will now be taxed and required to register with the government. Being taxed is not entirely illogical, but the registration requirement is pretty worrisome, to say the least. The government shouldn't need to know who is doing what in regards to crypto trading and mining. Nevertheless, authorities want to know who is mining, where they are located, and what type of equipment they use. "That'll put food back on the shelves," adds schwit1.

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Not even enforceable by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-18 22:09 · Score: 0

I wonder how they'll track miners.
1. Re: Not even enforceable by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-18 22:13 · Score: -1
  
  In soviet Venezuela, the miners track you!
2. Re:Not even enforceable by Rei · 2017-12-18 22:17 · Score: 2
  
  Same way they track people who grow pot in their homes, I suspect.
  
  --
  "This wallpaper is killing me. One of us has got to go." -- Oscar Wilde on his deathbed
3. Re:Not even enforceable by ShanghaiBill · 2017-12-18 22:20 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  I wonder how they'll track miners.
  They could track them by electricity use. Venezuela gives away electricity for almost nothing, less than 1 cent/kwhr, which makes it an attractive place to run miners, as well as other activities that squander energy.
4. Re:Not even enforceable by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-18 23:19 · Score: 1
  
  Like dorm electricity. When I was in school, electricity in the dorms wasn't metered, at least not at our level. I guess they paid a flat fee per dorm to the utility based on averages. We used to joke about electroplating stuff in the dorms. Nobody ever did, and in those days there the penalty for merely having an ounce of pot was quite severe, never mind growing it. Bitcoin? Inconceivable. I wonder what's going on in sweltering-hot dorm rooms these days... aside from the usual antics.
5. Re:Not even enforceable by Applehu+Akbar · 2017-12-19 00:51 · Score: 1
  
  I wonder how they'll track miners.
  In a collapsed socialist economy, miners will be the only large users of electricity.
6. Re:Not even enforceable by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 01:35 · Score: 0
  
  The same way they come up with electric bills. A guy I worked with was running some miners. The power company contacted him because his power usage was so high they were certain something was malfunctioning. He was using something like 20x the average power of a house. Tracking it would be trivial.
7. Re:Not even enforceable by Oswald+McWeany · 2017-12-19 01:57 · Score: 0
  
  Same way they track people who grow pot in their homes, I suspect.
  By tracking who buys all the boxes of Betty Crocker brownie mix?
  
  --
  "That's the way to do it" - Punch
8. Re:Not even enforceable by Oswald+McWeany · 2017-12-19 02:04 · Score: 2
  
  The same way they come up with electric bills. A guy I worked with was running some miners. The power company contacted him because his power usage was so high they were certain something was malfunctioning. He was using something like 20x the average power of a house. Tracking it would be trivial.
  And in a country where electricity is subsidized by the government (everyone else) that 20x power consumption amounts almost to stealing from everyone else (the rest of the country is paying for you to get rich).
  As you say, they should be easy to track, and whereas I don't agree with Venezuela's form of government, the government in that case absolutely has the right, and moral responsibility to track these people down and tax them accordingly.
  
  --
  "That's the way to do it" - Punch
9. Re:Not even enforceable by Marxist+Hacker+42 · 2017-12-19 02:56 · Score: 1
  
  More like how Stalin registered all the Jews and sent the useless ones to Siberia.
  
  --
  SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
10. Re:Not even enforceable by japa · 2017-12-19 02:57 · Score: 3
  
  In Finland the taxman has sent letters to persons asking them to declare their income from bitcoin. Be it mining or just a trading wins, the taxman want's his share (30%) of the profit.
  How do they know? Oh the joys of modern and organized society: They ask companies who do bitcoin business (sell/buy) for their ledgers and identify persons from there and then contact those persons. In modern western society, every transaction leaves a trace. Just a matter of getting the data from the right place. Thus as soon as you want to convert your (semi)anonymous virtual currency to real world currency, you create a trace which can be picked up.
  EU is very hard on money laundering, all bank transfers are more or less monitored. For example, a person made a 65€ bank transfer and wrote to recipient as "isi" (That's "daddy" in Finnish). The person was contacted by the bank tp clarify the transaction, just incase the person was attempting to give money to embargoed recipient (Isis?)(*). One might laugh on this stupid false positive, but it does give out the fact that even the smallest money transfers are monitored.
  (*) https://translate.google.com/t...
11. Re:Not even enforceable by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 03:23 · Score: 0
  
  Well, sometime in the late nineties a 'pay for' porn server was supposedly being run out of one of the dorms at a major university in southern Ohio. That was back in the days when we had 10Mbit to each room, so free power and bandwidth.
  Apparently central IT *finally* got some monitoring tools and figured it out.
12. Re: Not even enforceable by ArmoredDragon · 2017-12-19 03:41 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I don't know who this schwit1 is, but his comment "That'll put food back on the shelves" is completely moronic. The reason Venezuela has no food on their shelves is because the official exchange rate doesn't match the actual value of the bolivar, which means that it's basically fucking impossible to import anything, whether that is actual food or materials needed for farming. So given they can't exchange the bolivar for anything without going to jail, they'll need some other currency. Unlike the bolivar, bitcoin isn't experiencing hyperinflation, in fact the opposite is happening. Either way, unlike the bolivar, bitcoin is actually worth something, which means that they could import any goods they need with it. THAT will put food on the shelves, not Maduro's (and Chavez's) stupid policies which took food off of shelves to begin with. This is just another policy that will keep food off of shelves.
13. Re: Not even enforceable by DontBeAMoran · 2017-12-19 04:25 · Score: 1
  
  Given Bitcoin's excessive fees and delays these days, it won't help with anything.
  Litecoin, Dash, Monero... heck, even Dogecoin is better than Bitcoin.
  
  --
  #DeleteFacebook
14. Re: Not even enforceable by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 04:38 · Score: 0
  
  I don't know who this schwit1 is
  That's it, he doesn't know schwit!
  I speak of schwit1, not ArmoredDragon. To the dip schwit: a precondition for putting food on the shelves is getting rid of Maduro.
15. Re: Not even enforceable by HornWumpus · 2017-12-19 06:16 · Score: 1
  
  The problem is that Venezuela can't print bitcoin. It could mine them, but that isn't a solution.
  
  --
  John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
16. Re:Not even enforceable by higuita · 2017-12-19 06:36 · Score: 1
  
  Actually they can detect the same way... energy usage ...
  small setups undetected, but they will mine little. Big setups will eat lot of energy, so they can be detected if they check that...
  mining also require more cooling than pot, so check who is buying AC systems when there is little food and you can find then too.
  
  --
  Higuita
17. Re:Not even enforceable by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 07:04 · Score: 0
  
  Not like Trump's band of retards have a much better prognosis.
18. Re:Not even enforceable by mjwx · 2017-12-20 02:00 · Score: 1
  
  I wonder how they'll track miners.
  They could track them by electricity use. Venezuela gives away electricity for almost nothing, less than 1 cent/kwhr, which makes it an attractive place to run miners, as well as other activities that squander energy.
  That way they'll find all the pot growers as well.
  
  Venezuela is a bad place to run a bitcoin mine because basics like water and electricity are... transient things. if you were running a bitcoin mining farm, you wouldn't be relying on government electricity
  
  This is just another pointless edict from a despotic government (that wont be overthrown any time soon as the Vz govt controls the military).
  
  If you're thinking of mining coin in South America, I'd recommend next door in Colombia. Some of their cities have near western levels of services, it's dirt cheap to live there, the people are friendly and in many cases, even like Gringos, at the very least you wont get stabbed for a can of beans, the government is considerably less corrupt (but still corrupt enough to let you get away with a lot) and you can get a Miss Universe there for $50 easy.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
19. Re: Not even enforceable by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-20 03:53 · Score: 0
  
  Perhaps you should ask for a sarcasm detector for the holiday of your choice.
Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Vinegar+Joe · 2017-12-18 22:13 · Score: 1

"These days, the American dream is more apt to be realized in South America, in places such as Ecuador, Venezuela and Argentina, where incomes are actually more equal today than they are in the land of Horatio Alger. Who's the banana republic now?" - Senator Bernie Sanders
https://www.sanders.senate.gov...

--
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
1. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Narcocide · 2017-12-18 22:15 · Score: 1
  
  The answer is nobody. Bananas are extinct.
2. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-18 22:25 · Score: 1
  
  Sounds like the US dodged a bullet with that guy.
3. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Opportunist · 2017-12-18 22:28 · Score: 1
  
  Well, whether a dud bombshell is that much better...
  
  --
  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
4. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-18 22:36 · Score: 1
  
  Sanders and his facsimile in the UK Corbyn are wrong about the South American paradise. Yet neither one of them or their supporters will face up to reality.
5. Re: Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-18 22:40 · Score: 0
  
  Unfortunately, banana republics eren't.
6. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-18 22:46 · Score: 1
  
  4% economic growth seems like a better choice than Venezuela-levels of poverty.
7. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Rei · 2017-12-18 22:46 · Score: 2
  
  To be fair "these days" was referring to 2011, when that article by Sanders was written. A time when the Venezuelan economy was rebounding. Two years before Maduro was even sworn in.
  
  --
  "This wallpaper is killing me. One of us has got to go." -- Oscar Wilde on his deathbed
8. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-18 22:49 · Score: 0
  
  Wah wah wah commies, wah wah.
  You righties are a pretty simple kind of organism. You know *one* stimulus and *one* reaction. The neurologist's equivalent of the C. Elegans or what.
9. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-18 23:01 · Score: -1
  
  > Sanders and his facsimile in the UK Corbyn are wrong about the South American paradise.
  Surely they don't mean SA is a paradise; please, learn to think!
  Sanders (which I don't know, not being from the US) is probably stressing a point: the USA is sinking and further progress is being made harder and harder. Even as a foreigner, I'm sorry for a return to bad practices of yore. I hope the USA can shake it and engage on high warp again, to develop as it once did, helping the world in the process. Alas, that seems improbable -- at least for a while.
  But all those countries are not in the same boat. Argentina got better, Ecuador still has some problems but there's hope for better days.
  Venezuela is in an emergency condition. Maduro is not so bad as dictator or communist. The real problem is that he lacks competence (just as Trump) and this is sinking Venezuela beyond anything previously thought possible. Putting ideology aside, the country needs better leadership NOW, as famine starts to kill people.
  Leadership to even allow neighbors to help; instead, the Venezuelan government seeks to become an island like Cuba, but without external aid, like Cuba had.
  As a South American, it makes my hear heavy to have people going thru these tribulations. They never hurt anyone nor acted in bad ways. What did they do to deserve Chaves or Maduro? Certainly it is for the benefit of the whole region that they improve their situation. In times like these, we need people with smaller egos but we get poor dudes just wanting to get all power.
  Isn't that what Sanders is talking about?
  DISCLAIMER: I'm not a citizen of any of the mentioned countries (and my country is not in such a good shape, either, so no high-horse here).
10. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Chris+Mattern · 2017-12-18 23:01 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Venezuela? Bernie wants us to be like Venezuela? The country is freaking destroying itself! Ah, well, I always knew Bernie was nucking futz.
11. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Chris+Mattern · 2017-12-18 23:04 · Score: 3
  
  Even 2011, Venezuela was awful; it just was able to paper it over with huge oil exports. Then the bottom fell out of oil prices and Venezuela's lottery prize ran out.
12. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Opportunist · 2017-12-18 23:05 · Score: 1
  
  Are you 4% richer or the rich? Ya know, that works in Venezuela, too, if you're part of the government cronies, you're by no means starving.
  
  --
  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
13. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by goose-incarnated · 2017-12-18 23:20 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  To be fair "these days" was referring to 2011, when that article by Sanders was written. A time when the Venezuelan economy was rebounding. Two years before Maduro was even sworn in.
  To be really fair, when someone predicts something and their prediction turns out accurate, then their hypothesis is *probably* correct.
  Like if, for example, someone in 2011 said "Socialist policies don't really work, mostly", and Sanders points to Venezuela as an argument that they do indeed work, the future collapse of Venezuela provides support for the statement "Socialist policies don't really work, mostly", not for whatever counter-argument Sanders was attempting to make.
  Another example to clarify: if I were to say, right now, that BTC is not really a currency and you point to its use by $fraction of retailers as proof that it is a currency, any future decline in BTC acceptance by retailers adds support for my assertion, not for your counter-argument. A future rise in % BTC acceptance by retailers may provide the support for your counter-argument, but current cherry-picked examples do not.
  Predictive power beats single-data-point examples when proving or disproving a hypothesis. Pointing to a single example only works when the assertion is an existentialist one ("All $FOO are unworkable" needs only a single counter-example to disprove, while "$FOO is not long-term viable" cannot be disproved with a single counter-example).
  
  --
  I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
14. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-18 23:31 · Score: 0
  
  "These days, the American dream is more apt to be realized in South America, in places such as Ecuador, Venezuela and Argentina, where incomes are actually more equal today than they are in the land of Horatio Alger. Who's the banana republic now?" - Senator Bernie Sanders
  https://www.sanders.senate.gov...
  So Bernie's utopia is where everyone is broke and starving?
  Hey, incomes are "equal" then, aren't they?
  Why is "incomes are actually more equal today than they are in the land of Horatio Alger" even a goal? Who CARES what the top end makes if the poor are better off?
  Sure seems like the politics of envy.
15. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by cold+fjord · 2017-12-18 23:34 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Black Unemployment Rate Lowest in 17 Years
  
  --
  much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
16. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Rei · 2017-12-19 00:00 · Score: 2
  
  To be really fair, when someone predicts something and their prediction turns out accurate, then their hypothesis is *probably* correct.
  So if I predict "Company A's stock will rise and become huge!", and then the next day someone blows up Company A's headquarters in a terrorst attack, is that my fault that the prediction turned out bad? Heck, Sanders isn't even making a prediction, just an observation about the present.
  Most of the disastrous policies that led to Venezuela's plunge were enacted under Maduro. His approach to deal with the decline in income in 2014 was, rather than cutting back, to pretend that it wasn't happening by printing more money. And more. And more. And raising minimum wages to keep track with inflation. And again and again and again. And raising subsidies. Anything to pretend that it wasn't actually happening. Which of course plunged Venezuela deeper and deeper into a hole. It was entirely preventable, had Maduro responded to changing circumstances. Every government, regardless of where it lies on the capitalism-socialism spectrum, must do this. Venezuela did not.
  Is it somehow Sanders' fault that someone who wasn't president when he wrote an op-ed decided to close his eyes, plug his ears and chant "la la la I can't hear you" as his government's revenue stream was reduced, rather than responding to it?
  One could raise the contrast with, say, Ecuador - also under hard-left leadership, with someone whose personality is not too unlike Maduro's (blustering, anti-democratic tendencies, etc). Ecuador's economy is also heavily dependent on oil. But Ecuador didn't try to print its way out of the oil crash. Correa may have wanted to, but he couldn't, because Ecuador is tied to the dollar. Ecuador's economy certainly weakened from the oil crash, but did not crash in a way reminiscent of Venezuela's.
  
  --
  "This wallpaper is killing me. One of us has got to go." -- Oscar Wilde on his deathbed
17. Re: Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 00:41 · Score: -1
  
  You make your own counter argument.
  Venezuela failed under Maduro -because- Maduro did what socialists do: fail to respond to outside events, live the socialist revolution, and fail.
18. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by CanadianMacFan · 2017-12-19 00:42 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, I always go to CNS News when I want to get my biased facts to support the right.
19. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 00:48 · Score: 0
  
  Quote is from 2011. Oil was over $100 with no end in sight (it crashed in '14). And with Chavez in power, the country seemed to be doing just fine.
20. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 00:51 · Score: 1
  
  To be really fair, when someone predicts something and their prediction turns out accurate, then their hypothesis is *probably* correct.
  Nope. That's a faulty way of thinking, and easily refuted. For example, I can predict that the sun will rise tomorrow, because Apollo won't be late pulling his chariot across the sky since he has a Sony alarm clock. An accurate prediction is not a good indicator of a hypothesis actually being correct at all, and assuming such is a perilous risk.
  
  Like if, for example, someone in 2011 said "Socialist policies don't really work, mostly", and Sanders points to Venezuela as an argument that they do indeed work, the future collapse of Venezuela provides support for the statement "Socialist policies don't really work, mostly", not for whatever counter-argument Sanders was attempting to make.
  Nope. Recall the above. You have to look at causality in a much more careful scrutiny. For example, Sanders could be wrong about Venezuela enacting Socialist policies at all, but instead being a kleptocratic authoritarian state reliant on a natural resource to cover over a paucity in sound economic development that a prudent government would establish.
  Not only that, you've actually failed to identify what socialist policies are, what constitutes "not really working" and a variety of other faults. You've really just blathered on with a bunch of nonsense that helps nobody.
  I think there's a job or two open in Congress, you seem well-qualified.
  
  Another example to clarify: if I were to say, right now, that BTC is not really a currency and you point to its use by $fraction of retailers as proof that it is a currency, any future decline in BTC acceptance by retailers adds support for my assertion, not for your counter-argument. A future rise in % BTC acceptance by retailers may provide the support for your counter-argument, but current cherry-picked examples do not.
  Nope, that doesn't actually support your assertion, as in this case, the applicable definition of a currency is a medium of exchange, which BitCoin undoubtedly is. (definitions that require it to be issued by a government would be a question of terminology, not factual in nature) A lack of widespread acceptance would only make it a currency of limited utility.
  Of course, since you also specified that it was "right now" then actually, any future changes would have zero effect on your claim, which at that moment, would be untrue. All that would be needed is examples, at that time.
  
  Predictive power beats single-data-point examples when proving or disproving a hypothesis. Pointing to a single example only works when the assertion is an existentialist one ("All $FOO are unworkable" needs only a single counter-example to disprove, while "$FOO is not long-term viable" cannot be disproved with a single counter-example).
  You should probably recognize your own faulty logical assertions with this statement of badly articulated ideas.
21. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by CanadianMacFan · 2017-12-19 00:53 · Score: 1, Troll
  
  Yes, because the GOP are doing such a great job at the moment lowering the tax rate massively for their rich donors while screwing over the poor and middle-class (what's left of it). The president is a uncaring racist who doesn't understand basic economics, is trying to make as much money while being president as possible, is going around destabilizing the world, and only really wants to get rid of all immigrants and start a war with North Korea.
  But Bernie, who wants national health care, is the one who is nuts in your opinion. /s
22. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 01:04 · Score: 0
  
  Yea I know but it turns out it is true.
  https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000006
23. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Freischutz · 2017-12-19 01:05 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  To be fair "these days" was referring to 2011, when that article by Sanders was written. A time when the Venezuelan economy was rebounding. Two years before Maduro was even sworn in.
  To be really fair, when someone predicts something and their prediction turns out accurate, then their hypothesis is *probably* correct.
  Like if, for example, someone in 2011 said "Socialist policies don't really work, mostly", and Sanders points to Venezuela as an argument that they do indeed work, the future collapse of Venezuela provides support for the statement "Socialist policies don't really work, mostly", not for whatever counter-argument Sanders was attempting to make.
  Another example to clarify: if I were to say, right now, that BTC is not really a currency and you point to its use by $fraction of retailers as proof that it is a currency, any future decline in BTC acceptance by retailers adds support for my assertion, not for your counter-argument. A future rise in % BTC acceptance by retailers may provide the support for your counter-argument, but current cherry-picked examples do not.
  Predictive power beats single-data-point examples when proving or disproving a hypothesis. Pointing to a single example only works when the assertion is an existentialist one ("All $FOO are unworkable" needs only a single counter-example to disprove, while "$FOO is not long-term viable" cannot be disproved with a single counter-example).
  The FUBAR otherwise known as the Venezuelan economy is what happens when you over-leverage your economy and bet on oil prices permanently remaining at an all time high. Conflating Bernie's brand of social democracy with Chavista style socialism and then pointing at Vesezuela as an example that Bernie's ideas don't work is simplistic to say the least.
24. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Opportunist · 2017-12-19 01:09 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Unemployment is down? Great. How about earnings?
  People need money. Not employment. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who finds enough things to do with my time, what I need is money. If you allow me to hold slaves, I am fairly sure I can ensure 100% of them will be working.
  
  --
  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
25. Re: Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 01:14 · Score: -1
  
  You really should read the bill. Under the plan, rich pay more and lose somecredits. Quit buying into the fake news agenda.
26. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by PrimaryConsult · 2017-12-19 01:41 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  That's the inherent flaw of centrally planned economies, though. A small number of idiots can tank an entire country. In a capitalist country, a large number of competing idiots have to simultaneously ignore facts and reason, and all make the same move, in order to tank the country. Our closest recent example was the banking crisis, and even then, there were still winners - all the smaller banks that were like "lol wtf?" at the sub prime mortgages and stayed out of that game. As well as any individuals with precious metals stashed away. When things are traded at what they are worth, it's difficult to make wealth disappear. In this regard planned economies make David Copperfield jealous.
27. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by johanw · 2017-12-19 01:54 · Score: 1
  
  Then be angry at the DNC who sabotaged Bernie's election as presidential candidate and elected the only idiot able to loose from Trump.
28. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 01:54 · Score: 0
  
  I'm middle class and the GOP tax bill is looking to cut my taxes by about 5K a year. The one I laugh at is when people say it hurts the poor and helps the rich when the caps on property tax and mortgage interest deductions will only hurt the rich and leave the poor completely untouched. Of course unless you say people paying more than 10K a year in property tax and have mortgages of more than 750K are poor.
29. Re: Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 01:55 · Score: 0
  
  If Sanders supports this nutcase style Socialism, this surely shines a light on Sanders.
  Having said that, Clinton definitely cheated him in the primaries. She is indeed crooked.
30. Re: Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 01:58 · Score: -1
  
  Communism and Mohammedism are indeed dangerous idealistic things.
  Based on an irrational premise they proceed to perform homicides on a mass scale.
  There is a good reason to call them out.
31. Re: Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 02:01 · Score: -1
  
  Trump is a patriot and stops the inflooding of third world people and third world living conditions.
  Also, unlike Hillary he is not hellbent to bring more destruction around Israel.
32. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · 2017-12-19 02:59 · Score: 0
  
  It would pay handsomely to buy Bernie and all of his supporters one-way tickets to Venezuela, where they can achieve their version of the American Dream. Leave America to real Americans who know how to work for a living.
  And yes, I am aware of the immense difference in my views since I started posting on slashdot, using my online name from college.
  
  --
  SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
33. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 03:56 · Score: 0
  
  Except it's not a matter of planned economics failing, it's a matter of greed and covetousness. The only reason people pretend to care about Venezuela is they think they can point to a cause, but they miss the target. The Mortgage fraud was worse, not simply because of scale, but diffusion. If somebody went and stole 10 houses, at once, there would be massive outcry. A million (or more!) houses stolen across a whole country, by an unaffiliated cabal of fraudsters? People can't even see the problem enough to notice. It's too many little hits, no bullseye.
  Same thing hits with tobacco. Kills five million. If a single disease did that, we'd be crying about an epidemic. Smoking? It's just ignored by far too many people.
34. Re: Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 05:36 · Score: 0
  
  You mean the part where schoolteachers lose their deductions, or perhaps college students? How about the part where taxes and mortgage interest isn't deductible? Or how about the part that it doubles the deficit in five years, the intent is forcing the government to cut back entitlement programs.
  Lovely bunch of people there. In another time, this would be a bill of attainder, a law designed to punish the people Trump and his cronies don't like.
35. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by HornWumpus · 2017-12-19 06:27 · Score: 1
  
  What did they do to deserve Chavez or Maduro? Vote for them?
  Sucks to be them, but nations get the leadership they deserve. Hopefully their neighbors and kids are paying attention.
  
  --
  John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
36. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 08:31 · Score: 0
  
  To be fair "these days" was referring to 2011, when that article by Sanders was written. A time when the Venezuelan economy was rebounding. Two years before Maduro was even sworn in.
  To be really fair, when someone predicts something and their prediction turns out accurate, then their hypothesis is *probably* correct.
  Like if, for example, someone in 2011 said "Socialist policies don't really work, mostly", and Sanders points to Venezuela as an argument that they do indeed work, the future collapse of Venezuela provides support for the statement "Socialist policies don't really work, mostly", not for whatever counter-argument Sanders was attempting to make.
  Another example to clarify: if I were to say, right now, that BTC is not really a currency and you point to its use by $fraction of retailers as proof that it is a currency, any future decline in BTC acceptance by retailers adds support for my assertion, not for your counter-argument. A future rise in % BTC acceptance by retailers may provide the support for your counter-argument, but current cherry-picked examples do not.
  Predictive power beats single-data-point examples when proving or disproving a hypothesis. Pointing to a single example only works when the assertion is an existentialist one ("All $FOO are unworkable" needs only a single counter-example to disprove, while "$FOO is not long-term viable" cannot be disproved with a single counter-example).
  The FUBAR otherwise known as the Venezuelan economy is what happens when you over-leverage your economy and bet on oil prices permanently remaining at an all time high. Conflating Bernie's brand of social democracy with Chavista style socialism and then pointing at Vesezuela as an example that Bernie's ideas don't work is simplistic to say the least.
  Except that in this case Bernie was the one one conflating his ideas with Venezuela.
37. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 09:25 · Score: 0
  
  Simplistic? Sure. But it was Sanders himself who drew the comparison with Venezuela in the first place, so he has no-one but himself to blame if others bring it up now.
38. Re: Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 10:04 · Score: 0
  
  Isn't that the goal of the so called progressive movement; absolute equality in income, no matter the disparity in productivity?
39. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 13:44 · Score: 0
  
  'Earnings" = income people EARN in exchange for their services, not money taken from those who have it to given to those who don't want
  "Employment" = a job that exchanges one's service for cash at a rate agreed upon by the employer and the employee. Those without marketable skills have little or no negotiating power and usually accept what is offered.
  "Freeloader" = those who feel ENTITLED to part of the income earned by people who are employed, making those employed people semi-slaves to the freeloaders. Freeloaders feel entitled to free housing, food, clothes and cellphones as well. Not working, they spend their time partying, doing drugs or selling them, without reporting the income they make doing such. Most train their offspring in how to apply for Medicade and benefits from 48 other Federally funded "help" services, thus perpetuating a generational freeloading. As part of their drive to be perpetually re-elected certain politicians have been importing illegal aliens and giving them access to services meant for citizens, while working to give the aliens the vote. Freeloaders generally have many kids by many fathers in order to maximize the ADC and Medicare benefits, which they use for their own enjoyment while their kids grow up on the street.
40. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Opportunist · 2017-12-19 23:12 · Score: 1
  
  Your point being?
  Frankly, if what you pay ain't worth my time, don't expect me to waste my time on you.
  
  --
  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
41. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by mjwx · 2017-12-20 02:03 · Score: 1
  
  Unemployment is down? Great. How about earnings?
  People need money. Not employment. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who finds enough things to do with my time, what I need is money. If you allow me to hold slaves, I am fairly sure I can ensure 100% of them will be working.
  This, you can do all kinds of funky calculations to show different employment figures (either to make the govt of the day look good or bad), but the real test is how much disposable income you have (money after taxes) and how much discretionary income you have (money after taxes and essentials). Ultimately we want more people to have a high level of discretionary income.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
42. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-20 07:51 · Score: 0
  
  Indeed. And notice how in this thread they're blathering like mindless sheep about this and that, completely unaware of actual reality that is determining Venezuela's fate.
  Hint: Ask a Venezuelan. None of them believe they are socialist, they are more like American capitalism, especially considering foreign companies own the vast majority of their economy.
  If you ask a successful socialist country, such as Chile, Uruguay, or Ecuador, they will point out one major difference: The USA isn't intervening in their economy.
43. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-20 08:30 · Score: 0
  
  You may be surprised who supported Bernie. You'd be shipping at least 75% of all income earners making over $100k a year, and pretty much the entire computer programming industry.
44. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by BasilBrush · 2017-12-20 09:06 · Score: 1
  
  What you are missing is that whilst Venezuela is worse for the rich people. It; better for the poor people. Not great, but it was worse when the capitalists were in control.
  Yes, they get the leadership they deserve. They keep voting socialist because the socialists make their lives better. They are not stupid, and you are not in a better position to say what they should vote.
45. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by BasilBrush · 2017-12-20 09:08 · Score: 1
  
  Well look at you. All it took was a salary to turn you from a marxist to a capitalist. Maybe you were just in it for yourself all along.
46. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · 2017-12-21 09:59 · Score: 1
  
  Good. People who still believe in communism and are making over $100k/year are largely worthless paper desk jockies.
  And I say that as a worthless desk jockey.
  I'm well aware that most of what I do, has zero real world value.
  
  --
  SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
47. Re:Was Bernie talking about Bitcoin? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · 2017-12-21 10:03 · Score: 1
  
  To be exact, it took a salary to turn me from a marxist to a capitalist, then loss of a salary to turn me back to a marxist, then 10 years of hourly wage to turn me into a distributist. Perhaps, when I go back to being on a large salary next year, I'll be back to being a capitalist, but I doubt it. The problem with capitalism is the same as the problem with Marxism: it's a pyramid scheme. The tiny minority at the top live in luxury and don't do a whole lot of useful work, while everybody below them toils for peanuts. Centralized economy is evil, whether governed from Wall Street, K Street, Bejing or the Kremlin, it's all the same to the poor schlubs who actually dig the ditches.
  Oh, and everybody's in it for themselves, is the other lesson I've learned in the past 25 years.
  
  --
  SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
As Venezuela Collapses, Children Are Dying of Hung by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-18 22:15 · Score: 0

As Venezuela Collapses, Children Are Dying of Hunger
New York Times 2 days ago

Venezuela has the largest proven oil reserves in the world. But in the last three years its economy has collapsed.
Don't click on that link if you have a weak stomach. The images are horrifying.
Late-stage socialism at its finest - Venezuela has run out of other people's money.
Hipsters by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-18 22:16 · Score: 0

It annoys me when I see their beards and glasses and hairy arms.
Why do hipsters have beards and glasses and hairy arms?
Why do they **always** have beards, and **thick** black glasses?? It annoys me, and alot of other people.
1. Re:Hipsters by Oswald+McWeany · 2017-12-19 02:00 · Score: 1
  
  It annoys me when I see their beards and glasses and hairy arms.
  Yeah... and that's just the hipster women!
  
  --
  "That's the way to do it" - Punch
Not entirely illogical ? Seriously ? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-18 22:19 · Score: 0

Someone generating profit, needs taxing, not entirely illogical ? Seriously ? Seems pretty logical to me.
but the registration requirement is pretty worrisome, to say the least. So how else are the going to tax it ?
It's actually quite amazing there hasn't been more of a legislative reaction to bitcoin considering how it's basically dark money being generated off the books.
Especially since the prices are skyrocketing in the last month, the amounts you're talking about are no chump-change.
1. Re:Not entirely illogical ? Seriously ? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-18 22:31 · Score: 0
  
  No freaking kidding. It's amazing watching all of this, "Waah, why can't I just have my unmonitored untaxed hard-to-trace financial transactions in peace!" stuff. You all are lucky you got away with it for this long. Also, the "government can't do anything" crowd is also amusing. Yeah, China cracked down, causing a market drop, but that was more than made up for by capital inflow in the US and Europe, the world's largest capital markets. Watch what happens when institutional investors flee fearing a government crackdown. Watch what happens to your supposed motivation - creating an alternative currency that can be accepted by businesses - when businesses are legally banned from accepting it, and it's only valid for underground illegal transactions.
  Of course, bitcoin is already completely disconnected from its nominal use. Transaction fees are far too high to use as a currency, many of its early adopters have gone backwards and stopped accepting it, and despite it being accepted by a miniscule fraction as many places as credit cards, it's already valued higher than the major credit card companies combined. I've never seen a more obvious bubble in my life. It's rising because it's rising (the "greater fool" mode). Even completely computer illiterate people who have no clue what bitcoin is or is supposed to be used for are buying it (my sister being a prime example).
2. Re: Not entirely illogical ? Seriously ? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 02:20 · Score: 1
  
  If government issued currencies were not so much manipulated, nobody would use bitcoin. Even the collapse of the dollar is rather likely, given the never ending inflation.
  THAT is the reason for investment into bitcoin. Here in Germany we had people losing their bank accounts two times in the last 110 years. Same in Russia for the last 30 years.
  Only fools think government issued money can store wealth over extended periods of time.
Bitcoin = freedom by johannesg · 2017-12-18 22:22 · Score: 2, Insightful

The only party that might get damaged is the government. The people of Venezuela can at least use bitcoin as a way to store their value, and to conduct trade, free of the hyperinflation their government imposes on them with its rampant spending. For them bitcoin is a gift from heaven, a way out from their broken system.
The government, OTOH, should definitely be worried. Bitcoin offers no way for them to print money, so as their nation switches away from the old coin, government income will dwindle to nothing. They will be left with a valueless coin, and therefore without the means to effectively control their country.
And Venezuela is only the first country to go down this road. Eventually _all_ nations will end up in the same spot, as people will generally prefer bitcoin (which is free from inflation) over whatever local currency they are now stuck with. Governments that wake up to this in time will try to put a stop to it, using whatever draconian measures they can get away with. The people, who will have a major part of their wealth in bitcoin, will fight them.
It will be interesting to see who will win.
1. Re: Bitcoin = freedom by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-18 23:01 · Score: 1
  
  Except Bitcoin is going through hyperinflation right now. With massive swings in value, outrageous transaction fees, and weeks to process transactions.
  It doesn't do you any good if it takes 9 days to process a transaction, which is what it currently is taking. Bitcoin is going up in value due to speculators, but you have to hold on to it as it takes 7-10 days to actually be able to sell what you got.
  The futures market should help stabilize it as the big speculators will be money there. It is also why forks are jumping.
2. Re: Bitcoin = freedom by Nidi62 · 2017-12-19 00:31 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Except Bitcoin is going through hyperinflation right now. With massive swings in value, outrageous transaction fees, and weeks to process transactions.
  The sad thing is that, even though those points are true, it's still more stable and reliable than Venezuela's currency.
  
  --
  The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
3. Re:Bitcoin = freedom by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 00:39 · Score: 0
  
  what if the govt says "it is illegal to trade in bitcoins for anything". Then all the exchanges will shut down and no one will use btc in venezuela.
  its funny that you people think large organizations like exchanges operate above the law. They don't. Just shut that down and btc is doomed.
4. Re: Bitcoin = freedom by DigiShaman · 2017-12-19 02:21 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Venezuela, for all practical understanding, is a failed state! But the most insulting thing I've read this morning was this little nugget
  "Since Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies can't be regulated or controlled by the government in any official capacity, they could damage the country's brittle economy even further"
  Dude, it's DONE!!!! It's OVER. Christ almighty, let it go people. The only way Venezuela will change with with a revolution, that or the government can remain a festering rotting corpse.
  "...damage the countries brittle economy" You can't break what's already broken. In fact, starting over is the only answer. Pull the plug already on the Bolívar and be done with it!!!
  
  --
  Life is not for the lazy.
5. Re: Bitcoin = freedom by Alypius · 2017-12-19 03:13 · Score: 1
  
  They can't let it go because then they would be forced to acknowledge that socialism doesn't work. Instead, we'll be fed stories of plucky leaders struggling to find a place for their little country on the global stage despite the nefarious machinations of the eebil Bankers and Corporatists.
6. Re: Bitcoin = freedom by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 04:05 · Score: 0
  
  But Socialism does work. Outside of the 1% govt elites, everyone else is equally poor, starving, and miserable. Equal!
7. Re:Bitcoin = freedom by Marxist+Hacker+42 · 2017-12-19 04:58 · Score: 1
  
  Hmm...now that is an interesting idea hiding in there. Say you have a country that has at least one waterfall. Make a centralized blockchain currency, limited to only the government mining it, and base all your government income on mining coins in a mint connected to a waterwheel driven turbine. Eliminate all taxes, new currency gets added to your economy in a hyperinflationary but quasi-predictable way, and all government services are funded forever.
  Now that is a dream that might merge my current distributist attitude back with marxism.
  
  --
  SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
8. Re: Bitcoin = freedom by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 06:50 · Score: 0
  
  Except Bitcoin is going through hyperinflation right now.
  
  As a currency, Bitcoin is undergoing rapid deflation. The opposite for the bolivar. Each day a Bitcoin buys more goods. Each day a bolivar buys less goods. The bolivar is experiencing inflation, not Bitcoin. Instead of plotting the price of Bitcoins in USD, plot how many Bitcoins (fractions) it takes to buy a USD. Then you'll see the falling price that is deflation.
9. Re: Bitcoin = freedom by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 07:14 · Score: 0
  
  Bitcoin isn't going through inflation (meaning you can buy less and less with the same amount of bitcoin). It's actually going through deflation - if you just hold on to your bitcoin, it can buy more and more.
  If Bitcoin does become some sort of world currency (it won't), that will be the norm. There is a finite amount of bitcoin, so as the economy gets more and more valuable, bitcoin must deflate to match.
  Deflation is generally considered worse than inflation. I can't think of any example of hyper-deflation, but obviously if it's really a currency you'd have to be a fucking idiot to spend any of your money aside from the absolute minimum.
10. Re: Bitcoin = freedom by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 08:33 · Score: 0
  
  Except Bitcoin is going through hyperinflation right now. With massive swings in value, outrageous transaction fees, and weeks to process transactions.
  It doesn't do you any good if it takes 9 days to process a transaction, which is what it currently is taking. Bitcoin is going up in value due to speculators, but you have to hold on to it as it takes 7-10 days to actually be able to sell what you got.
  The futures market should help stabilize it as the big speculators will be money there. It is also why forks are jumping.
  Bitcoin is going through the opposite of hyperinflation. Hyperinflation is when a currency becomes worthless. I don't know where you're getting the "9 days for a transaction" FUD. While fees may be higher than some would like (or have become accustomed to), it's still trivial to get a transaction processed promptly.
11. Re:Bitcoin = freedom by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 09:28 · Score: 0
  
  Bitcoin is going through hyperdeflation, which is (so far as I know) a new phenomenon in economics.
  It combines the unpredictability of hyperinflation with the economic pain of deflation. If there is one thing even worse than an economy based on Venezuelan bolivars, it would be a currency based on Bitcoin.
12. Re: Bitcoin = freedom by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 11:37 · Score: 0
  
  Nah, you talk complete nonsense. Not hyperinflation but a controlled and very slow growth of the number of bitcoins in circulation. They are appreciating in regard to other currencies. Look up hyperinflation, it is the opposite of that.
  The rest of your statements is equally incorrect.
13. Re:Bitcoin = freedom by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-20 05:38 · Score: 0
  
  Venezuelan here. To mine Bitcoin, you need some decent hardware that is prohibitively expensive for the great majority of people. That leaves only those that can invest hundreds or thousands of USD in special computer hardware to want to take advantage that the government gives away electricity (I pay $0.008 monthly).
  So the tax is against that arbitrage. You might say, why doesn't the government charge a higher price for electricity? We ask that question all the time and the answer is populism: better (for the average voter) something unreliable (we get frequent blackouts) but free than something expensive and good.
14. Re:Bitcoin = freedom by BasilBrush · 2017-12-20 09:12 · Score: 1
  
  A Ponzi Scheme will not help out Venezuela in any way.
Cheap electric rate by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-18 22:23 · Score: 1

Mining virtual coin needs to use a lot of electricity, so if you are looking for cheap electricity, consider the small kingdom of Brunei
http://www.des.gov.bn/SitePages/Electricity%20Tariff.aspx
NEW ELECTRICITY TARIFF STRUCTURE
0001 kWh to 0600 kWh B$ 0.01 cents
0601 kWh to 2000 kWh B$ 0.08 cents
2001 kWh to 4000 kWh B$ 0.10 cents
4001 kWh and Above B$ 0.12 cents
Subsidised energy by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-18 22:27 · Score: 0

I can see why Venezuala is trying to crack down on bitcoin mining. In Venezuala the energy sector is still heavily subsided, both for petroleum and electricity, when energy is actually available. Bitcoin mining is therefore a method of turning that government subsidised energy that is also bought in pretty much useless bolivars, and turn it into USD. But it does make the energy situation much worse as electricity is effectively wasted in an already electricity starved nation.
There is also a trade in illegal export of subsidised petrol and diesel out of the country to neighbouring countries where it can be sold at a profit and used to buy other goods.
Well what do you expect. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-18 22:38 · Score: 0

Socialized electricity is going to be abused .. this is a logical outcome.
1. Re:Well what do you expect. by Rei · 2017-12-18 22:57 · Score: 1
  
  And then the fix is "okay, we'll subsidize the first X kWh, then it gets more expensive". But that's just dancing around UBI. If you want a basic subsidy to cover necessities, just give people the money rather than distorting market prices. And as for the notion that some people will just "squander it" - well, that's their bloody choice. If someone finds buying liquor to be more important than keeping the lights on, hey, it's their choice if they want to drink in the dark. Most people won't join them.
  
  --
  "This wallpaper is killing me. One of us has got to go." -- Oscar Wilde on his deathbed
2. Re: Well what do you expect. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 00:14 · Score: 1
  
  Have you met people who have handouts for their rent and food? This is exactly what they'll do with UBI - they'll blow it on bullshit like cigarettes, and then complain that they don't have enough for rent (but fuck their landlord, he's rich anyways and should just take it). I don't believe for a second that the same bleeding heart fools advocating for UBI will turn around and have hearts of stone when the money is misspent and poor kids are hungry.
3. Re:Well what do you expect. by PrimaryConsult · 2017-12-19 02:07 · Score: 2
  
  Instead of UBI it needs to be delivery of necessities. Free but boring clothes, tiny dorm room, cafeteria downstairs with food. Free wifi and cheap netbook (to look for jobs, or porn, or whatever). If they want nothing more in life, they are free to live it out like that forever. The important thing is to divorce necessities from money.
  Hell even after getting a job, people would be be free to stay there (after all, universal applies to everyone, from homeless dude on the street to Bill Gates). It would remove the work disincentive. In theory people will want more than three hots and a cot, and move out.
4. Re: Well what do you expect. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 02:18 · Score: 0
  
  I'm sorry, Sen. Chuck Grassley, but as a Republican, you should not be judging people on how they spend their money, the official dogma is that people know better how to spend their own money than government officials, government officials just like you! Don't be a hypocrite by accusing people of wasting their money. Let them be free.
5. Re: Well what do you expect. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 03:20 · Score: 1
  
  I'm sorry, Sen. Sanders, but as a socialist, you should know that money comes from taxpayers and that money distributed under the guise of UBI isn't, in fact, theirs.
6. Re: Well what do you expect. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 08:38 · Score: 0
  
  Nope, I'm sorry to have to tell you this(not because I do or don't like it, so much as I detest your ignorance), but the fact is, Senator Rand "GoldBug's Baby" Paul, in reality (American) money doesn't come from taxpayers, it comes from the arcane workings of the US Treasury and the Federal Reserve, all of which depend on the public's cooperation with the existence of the authority of the United States which means people consent to buying its debt in order to claim an increase in wealth due to a growing money supply.
  Similar practices abound across the world.
  And we won't be going back to the gold standard, too many people, like Senator Bob "Hey, look at all this money these tax cuts give me" Corker, are beholden to the fiat system for anything resembling metallism to work. They probably all love all this cryptocurrency speculation, it's like manna from heaven.
7. Re:Well what do you expect. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 09:06 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  In reality, people will keep the three hots and a cot, and subsidize their income with illicit and highly profitable activities: prostitution, gambling, drugs.
  If the government turns a blind eye to these activities, the negative repercussions will spill over and drive down everyone's standard of living.
  If the government cracks down, then your Universal Basic Dormitories are pretty much just prisons at that point, as police raids will be constantly needed.
  UBI and UBD and UBwhatever all fall into the same trap: welfare disincentivizes productive beneficial behavior and encourages mediocre bottom-of-the-barrel thinking. A handful of people will study their asses off and leave, but most will not, and the ones who stay behind will just keep breeding.
How is this relevant in the Trumpverse? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-18 23:06 · Score: 0

They are BANNED?
Was the author on pot? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-18 23:12 · Score: 0

> Since Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies can't be regulated or controlled by the government in any official capacity, they could damage the country's brittle economy even further.
Surely the former means the opposite of the latter.
Stupid fucking commies. by jcr · 2017-12-18 23:20 · Score: 0

That's all they need, another statute to violate the people's rights. This is one that they don't even have a way to enforce.
-jcr

--
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
1. Re:Stupid fucking commies. by klingens · 2017-12-18 23:26 · Score: 1
  
  Of course they have a way. Where does the miner get his electricity?
  When in the US potgrowers can be found by their electricity usage, why not in Venezuela?
  Unless someone dams a river in the jungle and imports generators from GE or Siemens (both are massively laying of people since no one buys big generators anymore) there is always a way to find miners. At least miners above hobbyists.
2. Re:Stupid fucking commies. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 02:28 · Score: 0
  
  Electricity comes from the divine wind of Chavez's spirit. Wind power comrade. Wind power!
Venezuela has run out of other people's money by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-18 23:47 · Score: 1

This is what happens when you run out of other people's money that you were using to pay for the "free stuff" you were giving away.
You have to double down on shakedown schemes.
The only thing sustainable in Venezuela under the suffocating blanket of dying socialism is starvation and disease.
Are you really going to argue socialism could have worked in Venezuela had it been "done properly"?
<SARCASM>Yeah, right. Sure it would have.</SARCASM>
Do you have the brains to even ask why you have to do that every damn time socialism fails? Naah, you don't.
1. Re: Venezuela has run out of other people's money by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 02:42 · Score: 0
  
  Marxist literature is an IQ test: only dumb people will fall for it
  They will explain their stupidness in complex pseudo scientific terms.
2. Re: Venezuela has run out of other people's money by HornWumpus · 2017-12-19 06:36 · Score: 1
  
  Marxism actually appeals to the dumb (tit suckers) and the half smart (can't see limits, but see potential power for themselves).
  
  --
  John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
3. Re: Venezuela has run out of other people's money by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 07:52 · Score: 0
  
  Marxism actually appeals to the dumb (tit suckers) and the half smart (can't see limits, but see potential power for themselves).
  And the smart sociopaths who see it as a tool to use to control the useful idiots.
  They even call them "useful idiots" - and the useful idiots still swallow their bullshit.
To all libertarians posting here by lucasnate1 · 2017-12-18 23:51 · Score: -1, Troll

I just want to remind you that all attempts to create a libertarian state fared much worse than Venezuela.

--
Avantgarde Hebrew science fiction
1. Re:To all libertarians posting here by scourfish · 2017-12-19 00:29 · Score: 1
  
  New Hampshire seems to be doing pretty well.
2. Re:To all libertarians posting here by Baron_Yam · 2017-12-19 00:33 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  There's no significant difference between an absolute libertarian state and pure anarchy.
  The fundamental system shucks off all civility and slowly returns to the natural state of things if you remove intelligent management: predator/prey relationships.
  I'm reasonably certain that the majority of people promoting libertarian states or anarchies believe THEY will be the successful local strongman lording over everyone else in such a situation. I'm also pretty certain they're delusional.
3. Re:To all libertarians posting here by jmccue · 2017-12-19 00:38 · Score: 1
  
  only because all the high paying jobs are south of it's border. Almost all jobs in NH pay a bit above minimum wage and for health benefits you need to use the ACA
4. Re:To all libertarians posting here by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 01:26 · Score: 0
  
  I just want to remind you that all attempts to create a libertarian state fared much worse than Venezuela?.
  Nice try, comrade.
  NOT.
  It's really, really, really hard to go broke sitting on top of the largest oil reserves on the planet.
  But Venezuela did just that.
  Do you have the balls to look at the images of late-stage socialism in failure? Starving babies, an entire population with no food or access to medical care?
  Grow some BALLS, you chickenshit son-of-a-bitch (and you most certainly are a chickenshit son-of-a-bitch for even trying to defend a system that resulted in what you can see if you had the balls to read that entire linked article), read, and LEARN:
  
  Venezuela has the largest proven oil reserves in the world. But in the last three years its economy has collapsed.
  Hunger has gripped the nation for years. Now, it’s killing children.
  The Venezuelan government knows, but won’t admit it.
  For five months, The New York Times tracked 21 public hospitals in Venezuela. Doctors are seeing record numbers of children with severe malnutrition. Hundreds have died.
  SAN CASIMIRO, Venezuela — Kenyerber Aquino Merchán was 17 months old when he starved to death.
  His father left before dawn to bring him home from the hospital morgue. He carried Kenyerber’s skeletal frame into the kitchen and handed it to a mortuary worker who makes house calls for Venezuelan families with no money for funerals.
  Kenyerber’s spine and rib cage protruded as the embalming chemicals were injected. Aunts shooed away curious young cousins, mourners arrived with wildflowers from the hills, and relatives cut out a pair of cardboard wings from one of the empty white ration boxes that families increasingly depend on amid the food shortages and soaring food prices throttling the nation. They gently placed the tiny wings on top of Kenyerber’s coffin to help his soul reach heaven — a tradition when a baby dies in Venezuela.
  When Kenyerber’s body was finally ready for viewing, his father, Carlos Aquino, a 37-year-old construction worker, began to weep uncontrollably. “How can this be?” he cried, hugging the coffin and speaking softly, as if to comfort his son in death. “Your papá will never see you again.”
  Hunger has stalked Venezuela for years. Now, it is killing the nation’s children at an alarming rate, doctors in the country’s public hospitals say.
  Venezuela has been shuddering since its economy began to collapse in 2014. Riots and protests over the lack of affordable food, excruciating long lines for basic provisions, soldiers posted outside bakeries and angry crowds ransacking grocery stores have rattled cities, providing a telling, public display of the depths of the crisis.
  But deaths from malnutrition have remained a closely guarded secret by the Venezuelan government. In a five-month investigation by The New York Times, doctors at 21 public hospitals in 17 states across the country said that their emergency rooms were being overwhelmed by children with severe malnutrition — a condition they had rarely encountered before the economic crisis began.
  “Children are arriving with very precarious conditions of malnutrition,” said Dr. Huníades Urbina Medina, the president of the Venezuelan Society of Childcare and Pediatrics. He added that doctors were even seeing the kind of extreme malnutrition often found in refugee camps — cases that were highly unusual in oil-rich Venezuela before its economy fell to pieces.
  For many low-income families, the crisis has completely redrawn the social landscape. Parents like Kenyerber’s mother go days without eating, shriveling to the weight of children themselves. Women line up at sterilization cl
5. Re:To all libertarians posting here by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 02:13 · Score: 0
  
  I make a recommendation to actually talk to some libertarians to find out what libertarian state would actually look like. You see, what people like you miss with the libertarian philosophy is the personal responsibility aspect. I think you truly can't imagine what it means to be allowed to do whatever you want, but be held responsible for everything you do. In pure libertarian society, you want to get drunk and drive? Go for it. You kill somebody while you're doing it, congrats, you now get to support their family for the rest of your life. Now, knowing that's going to be what's coming at you if you fuck up, are you likely to actually do it? Very different than anarchy. Libertarian society would have a government set up to hold you accountable, anarchy would be every one left on their own. The difference between anarchy and libertarianism in a word is accountability.
6. Re:To all libertarians posting here by Baron_Yam · 2017-12-19 02:28 · Score: 2
  
  >I make a recommendation to actually talk to some libertarians to find out what libertarian state would actually look like.
  You're an idiot if you think privatized courts and policing wouldn't lead to chaos and ultimately local warlords.
  >The difference between anarchy and libertarianism in a word is accountability.
  The difference between anarchy and libertarianism is the philosophy. The inevitable conclusion is identical.
7. Re:To all libertarians posting here by DigiShaman · 2017-12-19 02:35 · Score: 1
  
  intelligent management: predator/prey relationships.
  Intelligent management...as in communism, responsible for over 100 millions deaths globally? How about fascism, where the Nazi party as "intelligent management" - you don't march across Europe without at least some intelligent management?
  There's nothing inherently good or evil about order or chaos. They're two different axis. For example: you can have evil order, benign order, evil chaos, and benign chaos. Chaos is merely an agent of change. That's it! And depending on the state of society, it may be welcomed, or might not be.
  
  --
  Life is not for the lazy.
8. Re:To all libertarians posting here by Baron_Yam · 2017-12-19 02:49 · Score: 1
  
  >Intelligent management...as in communism, responsible for over 100 millions deaths globally?
  Ask an old Russian how they felt about Communism compared to the state of Russia shortly after Communism fell. Or anybody who survived a state in 'transition'.
  Order is better than chaos for the majority, even when that order is pretty grim.
  >How about fascism, where the Nazi party as "intelligent management"
  How about the overall order of the world that brought that under control? In a more chaotic world there would have been nothing to stop the only organized force present.
9. Re:To all libertarians posting here by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 03:14 · Score: 0
  
  Almost all jobs in NH pay a bit above minimum wage and for health benefits you need to use the ACA
  Horseshit
10. Re:To all libertarians posting here by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 03:18 · Score: 0
  
  Master strawman this guy.
11. Re:To all libertarians posting here by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 03:21 · Score: 0
  
  >Intelligent management...as in communism, responsible for over 100 millions deaths globally?
  Ask an old Russian how they felt about Communism compared to the state of Russia shortly after Communism fell. Or anybody who survived a state in 'transition'.
  Order is better than chaos for the majority, even when that order is pretty grim.
  What do you think brought about about the collapse of "Communism"? Here's an idea: it was the regime failing to sustain itself.
12. Re: To all libertarians posting here by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 06:08 · Score: 0
  
  Perhaps if you're a high school dropout or convicted felon. Do you have any sources to cite for your assertion?
13. Re:To all libertarians posting here by lucasnate1 · 2017-12-19 13:49 · Score: 1
  
  There's nothing inherently good or evil about order or chaos. They're two different axis. For example: you can have evil order, benign order, evil chaos, and benign chaos. Chaos is merely an agent of change. That's it! And depending on the state of society, it may be welcomed, or might not be.
  Life aren't DND.
  
  --
  Avantgarde Hebrew science fiction
Venevuvuzela by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-18 23:57 · Score: 0

n/t
Damage an economy how? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 00:06 · Score: 0

Since Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies can't be regulated or controlled by the government in any official capacity, they could damage the country's brittle economy even further.
Or the patriots could just repair the country bringing in everything from food to medicine without government.
No bias in that summary at ALL! by Baron_Yam · 2017-12-19 00:19 · Score: 2

> Being taxed is not entirely illogical
Whatever services government provides must be paid for somehow. Taxation is not only logical but inevitable.
> but the registration requirement is pretty worrisome, to say the least.
Since crypto is being used to subvert the government-controlled economic system... registration is not only logical but inevitable.
>The government shouldn't need to know who is doing what in regards to crypto trading and mining. ...the opinion of people attempting cheat their government with crypto trading and mining.
The problem is political mismanagement of the economy, but you don't fix that by removing all economic control from the government unless you want things to get worse.
1. Re:No bias in that summary at ALL! by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 02:53 · Score: 0
  
  You forgot:
  
  No one will be surprised to hear the Venezuelan government isn't too keen on Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.
  Well, I was surprised. I didn't think they'd give a fuck.
2. Re:No bias in that summary at ALL! by HornWumpus · 2017-12-19 06:39 · Score: 1
  
  Scapegoating is characteristic of failing socialists.
  
  --
  John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
3. Re:No bias in that summary at ALL! by Citizen+of+Earth · 2017-12-20 00:33 · Score: 1
  
  The Venezuelan government will just fix prices like it has for every other domestic industry and force producers to sell their goods at a loss.
Socialism in action by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 00:23 · Score: 0

"You did something so we are going to take it away from you for all the lazy fucks out there"
How about the billions the Chavez Family Has by scourfish · 2017-12-19 00:31 · Score: 3, Insightful

The Chavez family has billions in assets. Is that getting redistributed at all?
lol by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 00:38 · Score: 0

> No one will be surprised to hear the Venezuelan government isn't too keen on Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies
Neither is the USA; have we forgot about the IRS and the $20k request from coinbase? What about states forcing verification before you can trade bitcoin?
This post is just riddled with anti-Venezuelan propaganda. Lest we forget that the government is democratically elected. Did you forget that they just had an election that resulted in more seats being won by the evil socialist party?
Stupid argument of the week by sjbe · 2017-12-19 00:59 · Score: 1

Bitcoin offers no way for them to print money, so as their nation switches away from the old coin, government income will dwindle to nothing.
Stupid statement #1. The problems of Venezuela are not rooted in them printing money. The problems are far more diverse and numerous.

They will be left with a valueless coin, and therefore without the means to effectively control their country.
Stupid statement #2. Even if they cannot revive the bolivar they can simply use another fiat currency like the dollar or the euro. Countries experiencing hyperinflation do this commonly for periods of time. It isn't a cure all but sometimes it is a useful tool.

And Venezuela is only the first country to go down this road.
Stupid statement #3. Venezuela is not the first country to experience hyperinflation and bitcoin will not save their economy.

Eventually _all_ nations will end up in the same spot, as people will generally prefer bitcoin (which is free from inflation) over whatever local currency they are now stuck with.
Stupid statement #4. "free from inflation"? Umm.... no. Just no. No all nations will not end up like Venezuela and bitcoin is not likely to become a preferred currency. You are demonstrating a profound ignorance by stating that bitcoin is free from inflation. NO asset is free from inflation including bitcoin. You seem to not understand what inflation is or how it is caused.
Seriously, you post has to win the award for dumbest post I've read on slashdot this week. You are either young and naive or a bitcoin fanboi but either way you don't understand currencies and economics at all.
1. Re:Stupid argument of the week by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 02:12 · Score: 1
  
  There was a lot of stupid in the grandparent post, but BTC does have a reasonable argument for being free from inflation. The supply of bitcoin is limited which makes it deflationary, assuming human wealth will continue to increase.
Watch your universals by pjt33 · 2017-12-19 01:28 · Score: 1

No one will be surprised to hear the Venezuelan government isn't too keen on Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.
I am. In fact I'm astonished, because only last week the Venezuelan government announced that it will develop its own cryptocurrency (backed by natural resources, apparently, although I'm not sure how that will work).
Re: As Venezuela Collapses, Children Are Dying of by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 02:13 · Score: 0

Compare that to RussiaðYðY and you can see how competent, uncorrupt and efficient their government is.
But our mainstream media will utter the "Putin corruption" BS every day.
I assume they cannot imagine the existence of patriotic presidents.
DIY Cryptocurrency Mining... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 03:16 · Score: -1

If you want mine your own cryptocurrency, you need a motherboard with 19 PCIe 1X slots to plug in 19 GPUs and a couple of 1200W PSUs.
1. Re: DIY Cryptocurrency Mining... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 04:58 · Score: 0
  
  This post again. Are we really allowed to post affiliate links all over Slashdot to earn extra money? If so I got about 10 dozen amazon links I'd like to start posting.
Correction. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 03:44 · Score: 0

Black unemployment in USA at lowest rate since 1777, when it 0%.
What do you mean could? POWER METERS do that. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 04:11 · Score: 0

What do you mean could? POWER METERS do that.
no, its about the money by jediborg · 2017-12-19 04:38 · Score: 1

Venezuela, unfortunately, has a central bank like we do. The currency in that country has crashed, such that millions of citizens want to get out of the Venezuelan currency and use dollars/pesos/anything else. The government has prevented this by 'fixing' the currency to the dollar to ensure a very bad exchange rate, trapping the citizens into using a worthless currency that can't buy them much of anything. Bitcoin has been enabling transactions, allowing some of the poorest in that country to buy bread, milk, and other necessities, often on the border where a healthy 'black market' thrives and accepts other currencies, including bitcoin.

This action by the Venezuelan government is their attempt to completely squash any last monetary freedom present amongst their citizens.
1. Re:no, its about the money by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 07:37 · Score: 0
  
  Citation needed. Bitcoin is completely unsuited for such a task. It just doesn't make any sense that bitcoin be used for such a purpose, when bitcoin requires an expensive/slow transaction fee to even use - how can you justify a $10 transaction fee to purchase bread?
  Venezuela heavily subsidizes its electricity, and in a country with limited opportunities, bitcoin mining is a great way to make money on the government's dime.
2. Re:no, its about the money by BasilBrush · 2017-12-20 09:19 · Score: 1
  
  Do you have ANY evidence of such use of Bitcoin. Because that sounds like wishful thinking.
3. Re:no, its about the money by jediborg · 2017-12-20 11:22 · Score: 1
  
  literally the first search result i got for 'bitcoin venezuela': https://www.theatlantic.com/ma...
4. Re:no, its about the money by BasilBrush · 2017-12-20 13:46 · Score: 1
  
  I guess you didn't read it. Your article is about Bitcoin mining. We know that's happening in Venezuela, that's what TFA is about. But it says nothing related to your claim that Venezuelans are using Bitcoin to buy groceries.
  You made it up.
Republican Tax Plan by Marxist+Hacker+42 · 2017-12-19 04:42 · Score: 1

That part is coming, that's why they just lowered the tax brackets and changed withholding so that you have more takehome pay

--
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
1. Re:Republican Tax Plan by Opportunist · 2017-12-19 22:31 · Score: 1
  
  And who pays for that tax break?
  
  --
  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
2. Re:Republican Tax Plan by Marxist+Hacker+42 · 2017-12-21 09:57 · Score: 1
  
  In the end, we all do, through inflation.
  In fact, I consider that not a half bad idea. If it works, governments should retire debt and end income taxes by imposing measured money inflation.
  It worked for Zimbabwe, didn't it?
  
  --
  SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Admins please delete this post by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 06:12 · Score: 0

This person is trying to dupe Slashdot readers into clicking on affiliate links.
Donate Miners to the Venesualian Governemnt by j0ebaker · 2017-12-19 07:44 · Score: 1

Well, a government should not oppress it's people. That said. The people of Venesuela might in unision, accept donations of bitcoin miners, and convert their vast resource of oil into bitcoin to alleviate their debt to international bankers and restore prosperity to the region. Just don't borrow from international bankers ever again.
Damaging the economy by roman_mir · 2017-12-19 07:48 · Score: -1

Do not damage the economy, private individual, governments don't like competition.

--
You can't handle the truth.
Why Bad Behavior Is Almost Always Good Politics by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 17:46 · Score: 0

https://www.amazon.com/Dictators-Handbook-Behavior-Almost-Politics/dp/B007M5V5ZK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1513747896&sr=8-1&keywords=the+dictator%27s+handbook
If mere crypocurrencies can "damage" it ... by eric_harris_76 · 2017-12-20 14:48 · Score: 1

From the summary:

Since Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies can't be regulated or controlled by the government in any official capacity, they could damage the country's brittle economy even further.

If a competing currency can "damage" an economy, it's already damaged. The competition just makes the damage more conspicuous, by allowing people additional choices, choices they sometimes choose to take.
Remember the Soviet Union and East Germany? The people running their governments tried to quash competing currencies, too.
Golly. What's the common denominator, here?

--
There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.