China's WeChat Denies Storing User Chats (reuters.com)

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China's WeChat Denies Storing User Chats (reuters.com)

Posted by msmash on Tuesday January 2, 2018 @02:40AM from the he-said-she-said dept.

WeChat, China's most popular messenger app, on Tuesday denied storing users' chat histories, after a top businessman was quoted in media reports as saying he believed Tencent was monitoring everyone's account. From a report: " WeChat does not store any users' chat history. That is only stored in users' mobiles, computers and other terminals," WeChat said in a post on the social media platform. "WeChat will not use any content from user chats for big data analysis. Because of WeChat's technical model that does not store or analyse user chats, the rumour that 'we are watching your WeChat everyday' is pure misunderstanding." More than 900 million people use WeChat.

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Riiiiiiight...... by Ritz_Just_Ritz · 2018-01-02 02:44 · Score: 2, Insightful

I don't believe that denial for a millisecond. Coming from the government that was able to get a screen shot of what anyone in a public internet cafe was doing in real time 10 years ago....
1. Re:Riiiiiiight...... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-02 02:56 · Score: 1
  
  What's not to believe? Just because WeChat doesn't store it doesn't mean someone else isn't.
2. Re:Riiiiiiight...... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-02 03:04 · Score: 0
  
  I don't believe that denial for a millisecond. Coming from the government that was able to get a screen shot of what anyone in a public internet cafe was doing in real time 10 years ago....
  And, more than that, I refuse to believe there is a single corporation which isn't ran by greedy enough douchebags to do this anyway.
  I'd stab your average CEO before I'd trust him, because your average CEO is a lying sociopath.
  Companies in China have demonstrated FAR too much willingness to do things which are outright dangerous or fraudulent to expect anything different. You know, like melamine in baby formula. It's pretty much impossible not to conclude that Chinese companies are either under the sway of the government, or are totally corrupt and evil.
  But, really, let's face it, these days the US government has as much ability to force companies to spy on you as any other dictatorship ... so Americans should stop pretending they're somehow doing any better. Neither your government nor your corporations are any less corrupt and evil.
3. Re:Riiiiiiight...... by Kiuas · 2018-01-02 03:04 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Coming from the government that was able to get a screen shot of what anyone in a public internet cafe was doing in real time 10 years ago.
  This is not coming from the government. This is coming from the company.
  It's perfectly possible that everything they've said is accurate, they only stated that they themselves are not monitoring the chats, they never claimed that they've not given the government access to the data for them to be able to do monitoring, which is certainly happening.
  
  --
  "It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
4. Re: Riiiiiiight...... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-02 03:25 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah, the right question is "Do you provide a handy tap port to the government to collect and store every message?"
5. Re:Riiiiiiight...... by Ritz_Just_Ritz · 2018-01-02 03:29 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Heh. Do you think for a second that a company of that scale operating in China doesn't have an ownership roster that reads like a who's who of the communist party in China (and close family relatives). Don't kid yourself.
6. Re:Riiiiiiight...... by magarity · 2018-01-02 03:34 · Score: 1
  
  Have you ever seen someone using wechat? imagine facebook except more banal. who would WANT to store all its traffic???
7. Re: Riiiiiiight...... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-02 03:36 · Score: 0
  
  China has been and is controlled by the same 20 families whos eldest members live together in a single dwelling.
  You yankees are fucked.
8. Re:Riiiiiiight...... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-02 03:40 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  There is another thing people forget. Chinese companies have to have government officials from their military and intel branches on their boards of directors. Similar, where Chinese ventures with foreign companies have to be 51% owned by China (and this are actively controlled by their government), having chats "accidentally" log is not surprising. At least in the US or Europe, if you want something made on their soil, you don't have to have an officer from MI5 or the CIA actively vote and decide what happens as a company.
9. Re: Riiiiiiight...... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-02 04:00 · Score: 0
  
  They'll be living in the same dwelling again soon (but with bars this time). China is about due for a purge.
10. Re: Riiiiiiight...... by k2r · 2018-01-02 04:01 · Score: 1
  
  You have no idea.
  Imagine Wechat being your electronic payment for online and offline transactions and imagine booking an appointment with your dentist or a flight to a conference using Wechat.
  Wechat seems to be completely underestimated in the west though it has more than 500mn users for these services.
11. Re:Riiiiiiight...... by Megol · 2018-01-02 04:02 · Score: 0
  
  I don't believe that denial for a millisecond.
  Why should we care? Why would your beliefs be of interest given that you write things like:
  
  Coming from the government that was able to get a screen shot of what anyone in a public internet cafe was doing in real time 10 years ago....
  1) it isn't coming from the government. China have allowed private companies for a long time now. This is from a private company.
  and
  2) that would be impossible in general.
12. Re: Riiiiiiight...... by jbmartin6 · 2018-01-02 04:53 · Score: 1
  
  Well, the denial only covered chat history, none of the other functions.
  
  --
  This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
13. Re:Riiiiiiight...... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-02 06:04 · Score: 0
  
  Sounds like the 'I'm not touching you my glove is' school of thought from second grade.
14. Re:Riiiiiiight...... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-02 07:11 · Score: 0
  
  I don't believe that denial for a millisecond. Coming from the government that was able to get a screen shot of what anyone in a public internet cafe was doing in real time
  Dude you ever watch crime documentaries, telecom providers store at least call history and SMS text for government "forensic" requirements.
  The bad guys often leave digital evidence when their text messages are retrieved by the cops.
15. Re:Riiiiiiight...... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-02 08:18 · Score: 0
  
  you're not reading their statements carefully enough (... you might get into trouble with a lot of corporate agreements)
  they said that THEY weren't storing or reading messages. They didn't say that NOBODY was doing it, that they weren't providing ACCESS to the messages for someone else to read or store them. They did not have to be outright lying - they can be, hand-on-heart, "I'm telling the truth" and yet say absolutely nothing of real value.
16. Re:Riiiiiiight...... by currently_awake · 2018-01-02 10:23 · Score: 2
  
  Logically, the government needs the chats sent to them immediately so they can look for "problems", and logically the government will want to record everything so they can make comparisons to older chats, and logically the company doesn't want the expense of logging stuff if they don't have to- so I expect the company really doesn't record those chats.
17. Re:Riiiiiiight...... by crimson+tsunami · 2018-01-02 13:16 · Score: 1
  
  Now 2 idiots whose China = bad reflex kicked in.
  
  The most common ways that companies start doing business in China (legally) is by forming a WFOE (A Wholly Foreign Owned Entity) or by partnering with an existing Chinese business through some form of joint venture.
  
  https://www.chinalawblog.com/2...
18. Re:Riiiiiiight...... by antdude · 2018-01-02 13:36 · Score: 1
  
  I don't trust any services. How do we really know they are not really keeping copies, watching, etc.? :P
  
  --
  Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
19. Re:Riiiiiiight...... by Ryanrule · 2018-01-02 15:18 · Score: 1
  
  this is a govt run company, like all major chinese companies.
"We" don't store.... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-02 03:01 · Score: 0

We can't comment on how the direct feed to the MPS might be handled...
in name only by supernova87a · 2018-01-02 03:06 · Score: 1

And how about the phone's cloud backup of the app's content, that the government probably insisted that they have access to as part of the phone manufacturer being allowed to do business in China?
WeChat User by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-02 03:08 · Score: 0

I use WeChat regularly and like it more than WhatsApp - at least they didn't upload my address book to their central server.
For important stuff there is always Threema.
You Misunderstand by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-02 03:10 · Score: 0

It's not on our computers, it's on your computer.
We don't analyze the data on our computer, we send you JavaScript and you analyze the data on your computer.
Distinction without a difference? Just (your) pure misunderstanding.
Confirm nothing deny everything by fustakrakich · 2018-01-02 03:27 · Score: 2

*Never Believe Anything Until It Is Officially Denied*

--
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
1. Re:Confirm nothing deny everything by Megol · 2018-01-02 04:04 · Score: 1
  
  A good saying for idiots. Or conspiracy theorists.
  A sane person analyse the situation and don't care about denials or confirmation _unless_ they come with enough information to be relevant for further analysis.
2. Re:Confirm nothing deny everything by fustakrakich · 2018-01-02 04:20 · Score: 0
  
  Or conspiracy theorists.
  Ah, yes, the ever present strawman ...
  It's called 'precedent'. The courts use it all the time when making a ruling. No reason we can't do the same. And in this case, it certainly applies.The spying on public computer networks, not just in China, is ubiquitous. To believe the denials would be most naïve.
  
  --
  “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
3. Re:Confirm nothing deny everything by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-02 08:14 · Score: 0
  
  Courts do not do that at all.
  A precedent is citing another court's decision regarding an interpretation of law, as an argument for using the same interpretation in the current case. For example, if in a previous case the judge ruled the legal definition of "papers" was reasonably applied to electric records, you could argue that the requirement for a warrant to compel release of "papers" applies to the electric records you want excluded from evidence if they were obtained without a warrant.
  What you've done is argue that because previous times when a person in power denied something it turned out to be true you should presume anything denied by a person in power is true.
  This would be analogous to declaring all defendants guilty because the last person tried was guilty so this one probably is as well. Which is rather the opposite of the function of courts.
Let us ask Lt. Commander Data what he thinks... by nitehawk214 · 2018-01-02 03:29 · Score: 1

Here is his reaction... https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

--
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
Look at all that democracy flourishing! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-02 03:33 · Score: 0

Nothing like trade to bring about democracy & human rights protections right!?
Stop buying Chinese crap.
A non-denial really by bazmail · 2018-01-02 03:55 · Score: 1

A very narrow denial. Locally stored chats are still retrievable by tencent.
of course by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-02 03:58 · Score: 0

we don't cum in mouth and check in mail!
wrong by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-02 03:59 · Score: 1

Complete fabrication
1. Re:wrong by Nidi62 · 2018-01-02 04:34 · Score: 1
  
  Complete fabrication
  I don't see how anyone could argue with such a thoughtful, well-reasoned, and comprehensively cited rebuttal as this.
  
  --
  The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
2. Re:wrong by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-02 04:42 · Score: 0
  
  Great rebuttal. I see the wangluo shuijun are on it!
3. Re:wrong by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-02 10:54 · Score: 0
  
  A RWNJ said it so it must be true. Nice argument you got there.
4. Re:wrong by crimson+tsunami · 2018-01-02 13:04 · Score: 2
  
  There is usually little point arguing with people who's hatred of China is part of their religious belief system. Especially if they are AC. So you get the rebuttal instead.
  
  From the Chinese government perspective, companies that are 25% or more controlled by foreign investors is a Foreign Invested Enterprise (FIE).The most common FIE is the Wholly Foreign Owned Enterprise (WFOE), which is a limited liability company. The original intent of the WFOE structure was to encourage the export of technology-driven manufacturing activities. However, in practice, it has primarily been used to set up management and consulting services for foreign companies looking to get a quick start in the Chinese economy.
  You or the idiot who modded him up could have easily gone to google and stuck in 'how to start a business in china' and found the truth.
  People who think 'it's bad' + it's about China' = true, are not the kind of people who are swayed by facts or evidence, they are a lost cause already. They already believe what they want to believe.
  Did you believe it, did you check, or did you just add an even more useless post. Attempting to provide some credibility to an obvious anti China troll.
NSA and China's government is doing it for them. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-02 04:05 · Score: 0

The NSA collects every message it can so I expect China's government to do the same. Unless the US is more more os a police state the China.
Found the Chinese defender by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-02 04:15 · Score: 0

I'm curious how much China pays for protecting the homeland's freedom-crushing interests.
Private companies in China are not private to the Chinese government.

that would be impossible in general.
That is just a dumb stance to take on a website geared toward technical people. It would have been a stretch to believe it 10 years ago, but it would be easy to do given that they can force the cafes to install whatever software they wanted.
1. Re:Found the Chinese defender by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-02 08:06 · Score: 0
  
  I'm curious how much China pays for protecting the homeland's freedom-crushing interests.
  Private companies in China are not private to the Chinese government.
  
  that would be impossible in general.
  That is just a dumb stance to take on a website geared toward technical people. It would have been a stretch to believe it 10 years ago, but it would be easy to do given that they can force the cafes to install whatever software they wanted.
  It would not have been a stretach at all.
  The exact same thing happened in the US with a school and pictures of under age students in their bedrooms.
  If the internet cafes were required to have monitoring software installed on their public access computers than it would be trivial (baring malfunction) to take a picture of the operator remotely.
Now by kaatochacha · 2018-01-02 06:31 · Score: 1

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
Technically correct by WillAffleckUW · 2018-01-02 07:31 · Score: 1

It's actually stored in the Chinese Military databases, not by WeChat, they're just a passthru. It's like if you asked if any of the early network hijack software I wrote "stored user data", I could say "No", because it would pass it on to the collector dumps and then delete it once passed on.
The world is a lot more fun than we let on, and a lot of stuff they thought was turned off is still running, in places you would never guess. Always inspect the total stream, not the official bounded stream. Signals are everywhere.

--
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
1. Re:Technically correct by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-02 07:45 · Score: 0
  
  Signals are everywhere.
  You can't stop the signal
you and anyone who believes you is retarded by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-02 11:25 · Score: 0

You apparently believed his 'thoughtful, well-reasoned, and comprehensively cited' made up lies. Even thought there was no such thought reason or citation.
So why not believe the equally cited 'rebutal'? Or rub your 2 braincells together, fire up google and check.
You have 2 unsubstantiated claims, your 'China bad / must be true reflex' kicks in and you didn't bother to check.
Your wish to remain ignorant is your choice I guess. But at least thinking people instead will realize the first poster maybe wasn't true after all, and just spouting lies about China. Who knows why.

The most common ways that companies start doing business in China (legally) is by forming a WFOE (A Wholly Foreign Owned Entity) or by partnering with an existing Chinese business through some form of joint venture.

Stick that into google as a starting point. Or wallow in your ignorance like all your kind will no doubt continue to do.
The only thing necessary for stupidity to triumph is to keep believing other stupid people are stupider than you.
Input from a Chinese by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-02 17:43 · Score: 0

Background: avid reader of /. past 5 years, Chinese citizen whoâ(TM)s living overseas for 50% of the time.
True: government has direct access to LOTS data via âoebackdoorsâ (not so backdoorsy when the implementation is agreed upon by both govt. and the company). that includes everything from bank, to wechat, to food delivery app. Confirmed by multiple friends and family who work in these industries.
So while it may be true that Tencent doesnâ(TM)t store chat records, 100% Chinese government has real-time/ near real-time of these info. Itâ(TM)s a very powerful policing tool.
And yes, China is the most Orwellian society on this planet, by far, and Iâ(TM)ve lived in a few societies in both east and west, first world and third.
WeChat does not store any users' chat history?? by fatp · 2018-01-02 18:07 · Score: 1

Possibilities:
1) WeChat does not store, but they have an internal system called TheyChat
2) The data were directly followed to the Communist fascist
3) Chat data 50 years were not classified as history
They dont store your chats. They just kidnap you. by NynexNinja · 2018-01-03 01:04 · Score: 1

They just come to your house in the middle of the night and kidnap you and lie to your family why you were held in a secret prison for five years without charges. [1] [2] [3] [4] Welcome to China. This is just in the past two years. Anything you write on that WeChat, you better look behind your back.
[1] Monk held in secret prison for unknown charge for post on WeChat
[2] Man sentenced to nine months in jail for WeChat message
[3] Tsering Dondrub jailed in 2015 for posting picture on WeChat
[4] China jails muslim man for 2 year s for WeChat group