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GoPro Quits the Drone Business (theverge.com)

Posted by msmash on from the thanks-for-all-the-fish dept.

GoPro has announced that it's exiting the drone business, citing the challenges of turning a profit in an "extremely competitive" market. From a report: The company revealed the news during its earnings report today, saying that its Karma drone would be the last it would make. The company is also laying off hundreds of staff and reducing the pay of CEO Nicholas Woodman to $1 as it struggles to manage its rocky financials. The $799 Karma drone was first unveiled in late 2016, but proved to be an unfinished and expensive product.

65 comments

  1. Alternate headlines: by SeaFox · · Score: 4, Funny

    "GoPro Drones to Go."

    "GoPro Goes No Mo to Drone Zone, Citing Foes"

    "Drones are 'No Go' at GoPro"

    1. Re:Alternate headlines: by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Yo Bo zo troll, go, low blow foe

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    2. Re:Alternate headlines: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Suffering from TDS are you?

    3. Re:Alternate headlines: by alex67500 · · Score: 1

      I was going along the lines of Quit GoPro and Quid Pro Quo, but alright :)

    4. Re:Alternate headlines: by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      "For GoPro, Not Enough Dough in Drones, So..."

      "GoPro Mows Drone Flow Due to Slo-Mo Dough."

    5. Re: Alternate headlines: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1 for Dr Seuss awesomeness

    6. Re:Alternate headlines: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "GoPro let the drones Go after failing to become a Pro at making them"

  2. Another victim of the trade war by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder what parts they needed that they couldn't buy anywhere else but China?

    1. Re:Another victim of the trade war by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      Unicorn horn?

  3. Rather Predictable by nealric · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I never understood how GoPro ended up getting so hyped in the first place. As smartphone cameras get better and better, the universe of people who really care enough to buy a stand alone camera keeps getting smaller. I know their schtick was "action sports" where a smartphone camera is too bulky or difficult to use, but most people figure out after filming a ski run or two that they aren't Shane McConkey (RIP) and won't be filming much of interest. Then, the gopro goes in the drawer, never to be used again.

    I suppose branching out into drones was an attempt at recognition of the above, but the problem is then they had to extend outside their core competencies. There's a lot more to a good drone than a good camera.

    1. Re:Rather Predictable by WoodstockJeff · · Score: 2

      The true GoPro market is not about showing what it is like to do something, its showing YOU doing something to others. That's why selfie-oriented mounting hardware is so popular.

    2. Re:Rather Predictable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The true GoPro market is selling $30 webcams for upwards of $400. I guess they figured out that you can't do that with drones due to the number of competitors.

    3. Re:Rather Predictable by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      I never understood how GoPro ended up getting so hyped in the first place. As smartphone cameras get better and better, the universe of people who really care enough to buy a stand alone camera keeps getting smaller. I know their schtick was "action sports" where a smartphone camera is too bulky or difficult to use, but most people figure out after filming a ski run or two that they aren't Shane McConkey (RIP) and won't be filming much of interest.

      It's not about whether it's of interest to anyone else, necessarily. It's that if you wipe out during a ski run while using your smartphone to record your run, you will probably obliterate it. The people who can afford to go skiing frequently enough to have use for a camera have expensive phones, and a couple hundred bucks for a GoPro is both a trivial expense, and also likely to save them hundreds more. It doesn't have to be a GoPro, and in fact it probably shouldn't be at this point, but one advantage of the GoPro is that if you do put them into your production workflow and you do manage to destroy one, you can get another one at any costco.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:Rather Predictable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't understand why people would want to use standalone cheap and durable cameras in place of expensive all-your-data-on-them and very breakable phones? So... you're a moron?

    5. Re:Rather Predictable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I have a GoPro. I do a decent amount (30-40 weekends/year) of cave exploration, mapping and cave diving, so it's nice for that. They have a good range of accessories and extremely durable and waterproof. I would never take a smartphone into a cave. Most of the filming I do is for my own documentation and I rarely share it.

      The problem with GoPro is once you've bought one, you don't really need another. Mine is a 3rd gen model and I have no intention of upgrading. Neither does anyone else I know. and I know a lot of people who regularly use their GoPro. Whatever is the current model is bought and then used for years.

    6. Re:Rather Predictable by tsqr · · Score: 1

      The problem with GoPro is once you've bought one, you don't really need another. Mine is a 3rd gen model and I have no intention of upgrading. Neither does anyone else I know. and I know a lot of people who regularly use their GoPro. Whatever is the current model is bought and then used for years.

      Absolutely. This is why they tried to get into the drone business, because their market was pretty much saturated.

    7. Re:Rather Predictable by Bobrick · · Score: 2

      I never understood how GoPro ended up getting so hyped in the first place. As smartphone cameras get better and better, the universe of people who really care enough to buy a stand alone camera keeps getting smaller. I know their schtick was "action sports" where a smartphone camera is too bulky or difficult to use, but most people figure out after filming a ski run or two that they aren't Shane McConkey (RIP) and won't be filming much of interest. Then, the gopro goes in the drawer, never to be used again.

      I suppose branching out into drones was an attempt at recognition of the above, but the problem is then they had to extend outside their core competencies. There's a lot more to a good drone than a good camera.

      Newsflash: there is such a thing as people needing cameras for professional use. We're not gonna use a smartphone except to look at the time, use an app to know at what angle the sun will be at a precise date/time and other tasks that professional cameras obviously can't do. Though even there, GoPros are, quite frankly, shit, and they're thankfully being overrun by cheaper, quality alternatives.

    8. Re:Rather Predictable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gopro is about being able to push a button on your wrist and have up to 72 30$ webcams start recording relatively simultaneously.

    9. Re:Rather Predictable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I never understood how GoPro ended up getting so hyped in the first place.

      Precisely because they spent a lot of money generating the hype. It is the same model Redbull uses, and it can be very successful. The issue for GoPro is that they do not have any platform lock in or proprietary tech (they are pretty much an Ambarella reference design). Once their market got big enough to get the attention of the likes of Sony and chinese OEMs, it was always going to commoditize quickly. Hence why their profit margins are razor thin, despite decent turnover.

      They tried a number of things to fix this. I believe they tried to develop their own proprietary codec, and had plans to become a content publisher as well. But none of that worked out. Diversifying into drones wasn't a bad idea either, given the explosive growth of this industry. In the end, the fundamental problem apperas to be that they were a marketing company at the core (like Redbull), masquerading as a tech company. Once they had to compete on tech, they got beaten by actual tech companies.

    10. Re:Rather Predictable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had one stuck to my helmet I used for bike commuting. Same reason people say get a dashcam. Agree it is a niche market though.

    11. Re:Rather Predictable by Baron_Yam · · Score: 2

      >The true GoPro market is not about showing what it is like to do something, its showing YOU doing something to others.

      Produce a drone that follows a beacon at a chosen distance and horizontal / vertical offset, and can handle obstacle avoidance. Make it crash-resistant, waterproof and buoyant, and able to keep up with a jet ski with a 15 minute flight time. If you want to get fancy, have it clever enough to be able to circle its target or occasionally pass overhead, or modify its relative position for best lighting.

      If you can build that, you'll sell it to all sorts of people who want to get video of themselves out on the water, and you'll have a lot less in the way of issues with people getting offended by them for privacy or safety reasons.

    12. Re:Rather Predictable by Kjella · · Score: 1

      but most people figure out after filming a ski run or two that they aren't Shane McConkey (RIP) and won't be filming much of interest. Then, the gopro goes in the drawer, never to be used again.

      Uhm, have you ever looked at a normal person's social media feed? Objectively it's full of everyday people doing everyday things. Lots of people have an action camera and make pretty mundane clips to say "Hey, I'm skiing in the Alps" not "Watch me do a triple backflip" using it more or less like a dash cam. Their problem is that the market is pretty saturated and there's very little reason to upgrade your camera, it's about form factor, robustness, weather sealing and mounting accessories. It's more about having a camera running when something cool/unexpected happens than than the actual camera quality. And if you don't need it anymore there's always someone willing to buy it second hand, they just don't exit the market very often.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    13. Re:Rather Predictable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Make it crash-resistant" - ahh, it's that simple! I'll just go for a drive in my crash-resistant car and think about this idea. Yeah, I'll be distracted while thining about it and may get into an accident, but crash-resistance problem was solved a long time ago, so everything is crash-resistant here!

    14. Re:Rather Predictable by Baron_Yam · · Score: 1

      Another 'valuable' AC comment. /s

      Your car IS crash-resistant. It has airbags and crumple zones, seatbelts and antilock brakes. There are plenty of things in car design to protect the most important parts in the event of a collision.

      For a moderately lightweight drone intended to operate over water at low altitudes, 'crash-resistant' means able to fall a few dozen feet into water, and then bob on the surface without the electronics getting wet until it is recovered by the owner. Maybe even with battery-monitoring to have it auto-descend gently when it is nearing the end of its run time.

    15. Re:Rather Predictable by neilo_1701D · · Score: 1

      For a moderately lightweight drone intended to operate over water at low altitudes, 'crash-resistant' means able to fall a few dozen feet into water, and then bob on the surface without the electronics getting wet until it is recovered by the owner. Maybe even with battery-monitoring to have it auto-descend gently when it is nearing the end of its run time.

      Waterproof drones do exist, but they are expensive. There is a lot of electronics that needs to breath whilst in flight (the ESCs spring to mind immediately), and the altimeter (actually a barometer) needs to know the outside air pressure in order to hold altitude. All decent drones have battery monitoring and do auto-land when the power gets too low.

      As a drone user (I fly the Yuneec Typhoon H and the Blade Chroma as backup), the Karma offered absolutely nothing I wanted. For the price of a Karma + GoPro, you can buy a DJI Mavic and have a far better rectilinear camera than that fisheye junk the GoPro has. For less than the Karma+GoPro, there are decent offerings from Autel and Yuneec that have a fantastic camera and all the features the Karma has (minus, of course, the falling out of the sky and the flight performance of a $45 toy grade machine).

    16. Re:Rather Predictable by Baron_Yam · · Score: 1

      >the altimeter (actually a barometer) needs to know the outside air pressure in order to hold altitude.

      If they're using pressure-based altitude measurements they're fools. That is insufficiently accurate for this purpose! A radio altimeter for a drone adds around 3.5W of power draw, 300 grams of weight, and around $500 to the cost. Such a device would also likely fade in ability after about 60m unless designed to use more power (and cost more money), but really 60m is more than needed for the purpose I proposed. They are, however, very accurate and easily encased in a waterproof housing.

      Why does the ESC need to breathe? If it's heat dissipation, a radiator does not need to be porous!

      I'd mostly be worried about the rotors themselves, since rotating seals (especially delicate and tiny ones) aren't easy. Then again, if you use a decent marine grease it's probably not a huge issue.

      I would certainly not expect to see such a drone showing up at the local electronics shop for $20!

    17. Re:Rather Predictable by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      The message to future people with skills is to keep innovating.
      When 4K60 is about to become a low cost product for consumers, be ready, first and with a good product.
      Dont expect sales of last gen product lines to keep the creative and gifted people brand loyal.
      The most creative people want the next gen product now to be more creative with.
      The next brand to offer that is the brand they will be using and telling the world about.
      Other brands are waiting to offer just that product, service, support, software, hardware.
      Got to keep been innovative and actually listen to the best users who enjoyed your products in the past.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    18. Re:Rather Predictable by rwven · · Score: 1

      I think instead of cancelling their drone business after a single lack-luster try, they should have come out with a V2 that didn't suck. Their strategy here makes no sense.

    19. Re:Rather Predictable by Archimonde · · Score: 1

      You mostly answered your own question, but GoPro was cool at the begginning because there wasn't any other small action camera which was affordable. At the time when gopro was released, the cameras were usually custom made and very expensive (for pros basically). So the gopro guys probably took an okay chip and, coupled it with other electronics and a battery, made a hard case and that was it. But the price was the best part really because it was relatively cheap. Those cameras were used everywhere and they were quick to replace the much more expensive custom ones as it was good enough for a lot of things (say one off explosions etc). Viewers noticed that and it was a nice marketing in a way.

      A lot of those cameras are still sold because people still want to record their stuff. And not do it with their fragile and bulky $800+ phones.

      --
      Trolls are like broken clocks. They show the truth two times a day. The rest of the day they talk nonsense.
    20. Re:Rather Predictable by mjwx · · Score: 1

      I never understood how GoPro ended up getting so hyped in the first place. As smartphone cameras get better and better, the universe of people who really care enough to buy a stand alone camera keeps getting smaller. I know their schtick was "action sports" where a smartphone camera is too bulky or difficult to use, but most people figure out after filming a ski run or two that they aren't Shane McConkey (RIP) and won't be filming much of interest. Then, the gopro goes in the drawer, never to be used again.

      I suppose branching out into drones was an attempt at recognition of the above, but the problem is then they had to extend outside their core competencies. There's a lot more to a good drone than a good camera.

      Smartphones are nowhere near the level of a good sports camera... not by a long shot.

      GoPro got so hyped up because they were the only major brand for a long time and they applied a little Apple-esque marketing pixie dust. Now there are dozens of Chinese no-name brand cameras that are just as good as a branded GoPro (because they're based of the designs GoPro haven't changed in ages) and GoPro are trying to enter new markets to avoid irrelevance as the pixie dust has worn off.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    21. Re:Rather Predictable by nealric · · Score: 1

      No question that there are people who need pro-level stuff. But that was never really their market and it is a very small one compared to the consumer side.

    22. Re:Rather Predictable by nealric · · Score: 1

      I've never seen gopro footage on any of my friends facebook feeds- even the ones who do things that might be mildly interesting to watch.

    23. Re:Rather Predictable by nealric · · Score: 1

      Of course a smartphone is nowhere near the level of a high-end standalone camera, but smartphones have gotten to the point that they are plenty good for the average Joe.

    24. Re:Rather Predictable by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Of course a smartphone is nowhere near the level of a high-end standalone camera, but smartphones have gotten to the point that they are plenty good for the average Joe.

      I'd agree... but the average Joe produces far poorer than average shots. Giving them better gear would not make them a better photographer.

      However I was talking specifically about sports cameras which are designed to capture high resolution, high speed video photography along with being weatherproof and shock resistant. Most models will come with some inbuilt image stabilisation as well. Smart phones are in no-way designed for this and likely never will be.

      I went to the Goodwood Festival of Speed last year with some friends. They took smartphones, I took a 5 year old Canon Ixus point and shoot. They all marvelled at how much better my shots were.. not just because I knew how to frame them, what angles to take, where to take them from, how to use light (OK, it was an overcast day so this didn't help so much) but because I used equipment that allowed me to take advantage of my skills.

      Smartphone cameras may be "good enough" for the average mouth breather... but lets not kid ourselves into thinking they're good.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    25. Re:Rather Predictable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Another 'valuable' AC comment. /s

      Why do you think a fancy handler that is not your real name will bring authority upon you?

  4. Chinese by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Informative

    A Chinese company called DJI is clobbering every other competitor.

    Some say it grew suspiciously fast and suspect gov't-backed cheating & subsidizing. But at this point there's no solid evidence.

    --
    Table-ized A.I.
    1. Re:Chinese by omfglearntoplay · · Score: 1

      Good link, I'd like to mod informative.

  5. Reason for failure by backslashdot · · Score: 2

    Hmm, I guess they had bad Karma.

    Thank you, thank you. No applause necessary.

  6. To build a quadcopter in the US or EU by Max_W · · Score: 1

    a company needs seven hundred lawyers. Let alone flying it.

    1. Re:To build a quadcopter in the US or EU by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      GoPro would only have needed to worry about that if their drones could reliably fly. That was never a feature they had.

  7. Last PR stunt by Provocateur · · Score: 1

    Well PR to tech geeks, at least.

    The headlines would read

    Karma crashes into Slashdot headquarters!

    Upon investigation, it was revealed that the storage facility was *not "Slashdot headquarters".

    --
    WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
  8. GoPro destined to GoBroke by JoeyRox · · Score: 1

    They're a textbook example of a one-trick product pony, the type of company whose IPO you never want to invest in other than to flip it to the next greater fool.

    1. Re:GoPro destined to GoBroke by Zocalo · · Score: 1

      I don't think there's going to be an IPO (or ICO for that matter, given the number of companies jumping on that bandwagon), at least not in the near future. According to CNBC they might also be up for sale. I'm sure there would be some white knight willing to try and ride to the rescue, but at this point I fear it's going to take more than lower prices and a couple of new mounting options to turn things around. More likely they'll either end up part of some tech multi-national like Softbank or grabbed for their camera tech and patent portfolio by one of the larger drone manufacturers - Parrot or Yunneec, perhaps.

      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
    2. Re:GoPro destined to GoBroke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More likely they'll either end up part of some tech multi-national like Softbank or grabbed for their camera tech and patent portfolio by one of the larger drone manufacturers - Parrot or Yunneec, perhaps.

      Seems like that would have been a better plan from the get-go -- partner with major drone manufacturers to use their tech/brand. That assumes that either of these things have any value whatsoever.

  9. Competitors be flying! by Mascot · · Score: 1

    citing the challenges of turning a profit in an "extremely competitive" market

    True, that. It's hard to turn a profit when your competitors have drones that fly, while yours grab headlines for literally dropping out of the sky.

    That's only half joking. The PR disaster of the early design issue was pretty huge. Personally, I think it's a shame. The likes of DJI really could use some stiff competition.

  10. To top it off, RUSKIES LOSE ANOTHER SAT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      due to massive vodka intake leakage!

  11. Thank Nick, take on for the team! by viperidaenz · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Drop your salary from about a million per year to $1
    Keep your hundred million in stock payments.

    That year, Woodman earned a staggering $77.4 million. His package included a base salary of $800,000 and stock awards of $74.6 million, as well as other compensation

    That was his 2016 package, 2017 was probably bigger.

    1. Re:Thank Nick, take on for the team! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      But he would be practically destitute otherwise. It’s why he also needed a tax cut. It’s tough to live off only a meager 1600x the median US employee’s yearly salary.

    2. Re:Thank Nick, take on for the team! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You understand that because he's awarded the stock, doesn't mean he can exercise it, or sell it, right?

    3. Re:Thank Nick, take on for the team! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Indeed. And the reason they do this is that the tax system in most countries is geared towards low taxes on investment income and high taxes on salary and wage income. You would be stupid to allocate your income towards the latter if you have the choice.

      Being able to spin it as some kind of honorable sacrifice is just icing on the cake really.

      These people really are corporate psychopaths.

    4. Re: Thank Nick, take on for the team! by sonamchauhan · · Score: 1

      And you've probably been making this very point for years and years. And still they don't understand!

  12. OT: Battery life... by unique_parrot · · Score: 1

    Had a GoPro4 Hero Black, battery size was about a sugar cube. Glad I sold it fast. The video quality was nice (apart from the fisheye) but it was just a toy. I could suck longer on a sugar cube than take a video on the cam...

    1. Re:OT: Battery life... by unique_parrot · · Score: 1

      *then* ? But the battery times lasted MUCH less the GoPro ads. But the marketing videos where VERY nice...

  13. And? by Shogun37 · · Score: 1

    An overhyped producer of overpriced toys tanks. Film at Eleven. Anyone else notice how light Ms. Mash's "stories" are? Do your job, write a decent couple of paragraphs. Google News had more on the story than she did.

  14. More importantly, have they fixed the vibration? by kriston · · Score: 1

    More importantly, have they fixed the vibration ripple effect?

    --

    Kriston

  15. GoPro alternatives? by maroberts · · Score: 1

    Which action cam does everyone like nowadays? Inexpensive and Professional quality recommendations are welcome.

    --

    Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
    Karma: Chameleon

    1. Re:GoPro alternatives? by Pascoea · · Score: 1

      Bought the cheapest 1080p 30fps POS i could find on AliExpress to attach to the front of my quad. Battery lasts long enough to be useful, takes reasonably good video, wifi connectivity is a joke.