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Searching For Lithium Deposits With Satellites (economist.com)

A group led by Cristian Rossi, an expert on remote sensing, is using satellites already in orbit to detect and map geological and botanical features that might betray the presence of subterranean lithium. Though satellite prospecting of this sort has been employed before, reads a new report in The Economist, to look for metals such as gold and copper, using it to search for lithium is new. From the report, which may be paywalled: The searchers are not searching blind. They know, from mining records dating from the mid-1800s, that there is lithium in Cornwall's rocks. Those records tell of underground springs containing salts of lithium -- at that time quite a recently discovered element. Back then these springs were seen, at best, as curiosities, and at worst as flooding risks, because there was then no market for the metal. Today, there is. In particular, lithium is the eponymous component of lithium-ion batteries. These power products ranging from smartphones to electric cars, and are being tested as a means of grid-scale electricity storage which could make the spread of renewable energy much easier. No surprise, then, that prices have been rising. In 2008 a tonne of lithium carbonate cost around $6,000. Now it would set you back more than $12,000.

49 comments

  1. so much for the price of batteries dropping by nonBORG · · Score: 1

    Economies of scale are great except when the supply of the raw materials is limited or constrained. So much for cheap batteries. Bring on the Molten salt grid storage batteries instead of wasting the Lithium there.

    --
    You can't handle the truth! - Because I don't post left all my comments get modded down, bye bye Karma.
    1. Re:so much for the price of batteries dropping by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So much for cheap batteries.

      A Tesla battery contains about 60 kg of lithium, which comes from about 320 kg of lithium carbonate. At $12k per ton, that costs about $4k, which is only 5% of the cost of the car.

      Bring on the Molten salt grid storage batteries instead of wasting the Lithium there.

      I never understood the appeal of lithium for grid storage, since weight of a stationary battery is not an issue.

    2. Re:so much for the price of batteries dropping by JoshuaZ · · Score: 1

      I never understood the appeal of lithium for grid storage, since weight of a stationary battery is not an issue.

      The appeal is purely the economies of scale; the hope is that if one is only manufacturing a single type of battery then everything's cost goes down.

    3. Re:so much for the price of batteries dropping by stabiesoft · · Score: 2

      Add about another kbuck for cobalt. Estimate for the 85kwh is about 42 lbs of cobalt which would run about a k. Cobalt trades around 23/lb. Cobalt is actually harder to find than lithium. There may be some other expensive components as well. Not sure exactly what else goes into the batteries.

    4. Re:so much for the price of batteries dropping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      which is only 5% of the cost of the car.

      Until it's not 5% of the car. If the price triples then it's 15% of the car.

      I never understood the appeal of lithium for grid storage, since weight of a stationary battery is not an issue.

      What if you are on a small island? Too much weight on one end and the island could tip over.

    5. Re: so much for the price of batteries dropping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Finally, California will sink into the Pacific!

    6. Re:so much for the price of batteries dropping by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Seriously? 60 kg of lithium should give you a ~300 kWh battery. Are you sure you about those numbers?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    7. Re:so much for the price of batteries dropping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      5% price of a Tesla is 15% the price of an affordable car.

    8. Re:so much for the price of batteries dropping by haruchai · · Score: 2

      So much for cheap batteries.

      A Tesla battery contains about 60 kg of lithium, which comes from about 320 kg of lithium carbonate. At $12k per ton, that costs about $4k, which is only 5% of the cost of the car.

      Bring on the Molten salt grid storage batteries instead of wasting the Lithium there.

      I never understood the appeal of lithium for grid storage, since weight of a stationary battery is not an issue.

      I can understand why Tesla (and others) would use them for home units but I don't consider it ideal for large / utility storage.

      Speaking of molten-salt, Sumitomo is years overdue on their promised low-temp molten-salt battery and have gone quiet about it.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    9. Re:so much for the price of batteries dropping by haruchai · · Score: 1

      Seriously? 60 kg of lithium should give you a ~300 kWh battery. Are you sure you about those numbers?

      According to Electrek, a 70 kwh Model S pack contains 63 kg of lithium
      https://electrek.co/2016/11/01...

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    10. Re: so much for the price of batteries dropping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This inane racist rant brought to you by Dimmocrats to Elect Hillary! in 2020. Vote Hillary! for even more deindustrialization and mass unemployment!

    11. Re:so much for the price of batteries dropping by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      I never understood the appeal of lithium for grid storage, since weight of a stationary battery is not an issue.

      When you have a hammer every problem looks like a nail. Tesla with their huge lithium supply chain and huge lithium battery manufacturing capabilities are hardly going to invest significant research into alternatives like vanadium redox. Not unless something forces the hand of the business.

    12. Re:so much for the price of batteries dropping by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      That is hardly plausible because that would make it use 900 grams of lithium per kWh. That would be outrageously poor usage of lithium in a field where around 200 grams per kWh is the norm, depending on battery chemistry used. See page 16 here.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    13. Re:so much for the price of batteries dropping by Rei · · Score: 2

      Thank you, I was about to write that same thing. That 60 kg figure must be carbonate, not metal.

      The reversible lithium intercalation reaction between carbon and cobalt oxide is 11,2 kWh/kg. So for a Model 3 LR-sized LiCoO2/C battery, that's only 7kg of lithium. Of course, you have to increase that a bit because not all lithium will be available for intercalation at any given point of time. But that would strongly argue for 60 kg being carbonate, not metal.

      This states that a 2Ah 18650 of the type Tesla uses in the Model S and X contain 0,6g of lithium (metal). Tesla's are 3285 mAh, so 0,975g per cell. At 4,2V per cell, that would be 0,0714 kg/kWh. So for a Model 3 LR-sized battery, that comes out to 6kg of lithium.

      Let's be pessimistic and say 9kg of Li metal in a Model 3 LR. At 18,7% lithium, the carbonate equivalent is 48kg. And let's go with a price of $14/kg. That's $126 for the lithium. At 0,2kg cobalt per kWh, that's 16,1kg cobalt. At $80/kg, that's $1288. At a 5:1 nickel cobalt ratio, that's 1kg nickel per kWh. At $13/kg, that's $1046. Everything else in a pack is a mixture of alumium, manganese, organic electrolytes, carbon, silicon, copper wiring, a wide range of plastics, etc. Let's go with an average of $2/kg for the remainder. Tesla's Model 3 LR packs (not individual cells) are (roughly) rated by the EPA at 150Wh/kg. That comes out to 537kg. The other way we can analyze it is compare the 80,5kWh LR pack to the 80,5*31/46=54,25kWh SR pack (26,25kWh difference) and the 121kg difference between packs, which would suggest 371kg. Let's go with 450kg. So ~345kg that's not nickel/cobalt/lithium, or $690. Summing it all up: $3150 of raw materials. Or $39 per kWh.

      $39/kWh while demand is outpacing supply. Even less when prices return to their historic levels.

      Battery packs are, and will continue to be for the time being, limited by production costs, not raw material costs. Hence the reason why first Tesla - and now everyone - has pursued the strategy of "go big".

      --
      It's time for Operation Crazy Plan.
    14. Re:so much for the price of batteries dropping by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Molten salt storage, stors heat. Not electricity.
      Converting heat into electricity is at an efficiency range of 42%. So if you pump 100Watt into a molten salt storage, you get out 42Watt later, assuming you have no other losses.
      A Li-ion battery is over 99% efficient ... so storing 100Watt of electricity in a battery gives you 99Watts back.
      That is more than a factor of two.

      And I for my part rather have a battery bank in my living room than an molten salt tank ...

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    15. Re:so much for the price of batteries dropping by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Other sources, such as this article report far lower amounts of lithium: Tesla's Model S 85 KWH battery is made with thousands of small batteries or cells and would have about 6.8 Kg of lithium. . That would cost about $500 for the lithium.

    16. Re:so much for the price of batteries dropping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lithium IS cheap. If the price doubles from current, it becomes affordable to pull it from seawater. Cobalt, on the other hand...

    17. Re:so much for the price of batteries dropping by Rei · · Score: 1

      Corr to the above: 14*48=1764, not 126! That ups the final price to $4788, or $49/kWh.

      That said... 9kg Li metal is probably an overestimate. And to reiterate, these are with inflated raw material prices.

      --
      It's time for Operation Crazy Plan.
    18. Re:so much for the price of batteries dropping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you just answered why Tesla et al are betting on lithium batteries even for stationary storage.

    19. Re:so much for the price of batteries dropping by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      14*48=1764, not 126!

      You wouldn't be able to afford it for $2.372*10^211 anyway, even in Iceland. :)

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    20. Re:so much for the price of batteries dropping by nonBORG · · Score: 1

      I think you are thinking of something else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... These are probably more suitable for Grid storage solutions that are not personal in a house but dedicated, like the setup that Tesla did in Australia.

      --
      You can't handle the truth! - Because I don't post left all my comments get modded down, bye bye Karma.
    21. Re:so much for the price of batteries dropping by scatbomb · · Score: 1

      So much for cheap batteries.

      A Tesla battery contains about 60 kg of lithium, which comes from about 320 kg of lithium carbonate. At $12k per ton, that costs about $4k, which is only 5% of the cost of the car.

      Or about 1/3 of the median car price, FYI. Batteries are expensive.

    22. Re:so much for the price of batteries dropping by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Interesting technology!

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  2. cognitive dissonance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lithium deposits? Now we can medicate the entire US.

  3. While you're desalinating... by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    There's not a lot, but there is some good shit... When you automate it, it doesn't cost a dime in human effort, which is all that matters.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    1. Re:While you're desalinating... by edi_guy · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Find somewhere that's brutally hot, lots of coastline, and not a lot of coastal development. Go nuts with evaporation ponds and some automation and you sir have brought your country into the 21st century energy economy. Yemen 2020 !!!

    2. Re:While you're desalinating... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      This would be a good use for the Qattara Depression. It is 133 m below sea level (twice as deep as Death Valley), and only 50 km of relatively flat ground from the Mediterranean Sea. As an extra bonus, the Med is already significantly saltier than the Atlantic or Pacific.

      We invaded Iraq for their oil, now we can invade Egypt for their salt.

    3. Re:While you're desalinating... by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      No, if Egypt is invaded, it will be for the water. War is still the most profitable way of gathering natural resources.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  4. How it really works by slashmydots · · Score: 3, Funny

    You just look for plants that have really good battery life growing above the lithium deposits.

  5. Cool by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

    Where's the story about cobalt production? That's a bigger bottleneck than lithium. Maybe USA will invade DRC

    1. Re:Cool by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Where's the story about cobalt production? That's a bigger bottleneck than lithium.

      There are alternatives to cobalt, such as manganese, which is plentiful. There is no substitute for lithium.

    2. Re:Cool by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      None of which have the performance in terms of power density, energy density, or cycle life of cobalt based cathodes. NMC (nickel, manganese, cobalt, used in Tesla PowerWall), LCO (cobalt, used in mobile phones) and NCA (nickel, cobalt, aluminium, used in Tesla Model S) cells are all better than LMO (manganese, used in Nissan Leaf)
      Nickel isn't cheap either.

    3. Re:Cool by haruchai · · Score: 1

      Power density isn't everything. LiFePO4 is much safer than the cobalt chemistries and is used in several hundred thousand buses in China.
      And its raw materials are cheaper.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    4. Re:Cool by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      LiFePO4 has pretty shit cycle life compared to even manganese oxide cells.
      These days they're only good if you want cheap and you don't care about weight, size or disposing of them.

    5. Re:Cool by Rei · · Score: 1

      It's worth pointing out that modern NMC and NCA cells are only 15-20% cobalt in the cathodes - the cathodes in turn being only part of the cell mass, and the cells only being part of the pack mass. They keep working to push its percentage down, since it's the costliest element by mass. The bulk cathode material is nickel, which is already mined in bulk as a steel alloying agent. Last forecast I saw was that li-ions were only supposed to increase nickel demand 10-40% by 2025.

      While some cobalt demand will be made up with new mines (it's historically not been worth spending much money in prospecting for it), a large chunk will simply be recovered by adding recovery circuits to existing mines, since cobalt can be found pretty much everywhere that a wide range of commonly mined metals are found (copper, silver, nickel, zinc, etc). At previous cobalt prices it wasn't worth amortizing the recovery hardware costs, so cobalt just went out in the tailings.

      --
      It's time for Operation Crazy Plan.
    6. Re:Cool by haruchai · · Score: 1

      LiFePO4 has pretty shit cycle life compared to even manganese oxide cells.
      These days they're only good if you want cheap and you don't care about weight, size or disposing of them.

      Wiki disagrees.
      LiFePO4:

      100% DOD cycle life (number of cycles to 80% of original capacity) = 2,000–7,000
      10% DOD cycle life (number of cycles to 80% of original capacity) > 10,000
      Sony Fortelion: 74% capacity after 8,000 cycles with 100% DOD
      Cathode composition (weight)

      LiFePO4 cycle life is better than any other except for Lithium Titanate and it can also be discharged very quickly compared to the other Li-on types

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    7. Re:Cool by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      It's also worth pointing out that Lithium carbonate is also a very small component of a battery and Lithium is only a small component of Lithium carbonate.
      There's only about 80g of Lithium per kWh of capacity.

      in 2008 cobalt prices went up to $50/lb
      It then went back to a bit under $20 and stayed pretty stead until last year. It's now $37 and rising fast.
      The problem is more than half of the worlds cobalt comes from the Democratic Republic of the Congo. It's not a very politically stable country.

    8. Re:Cool by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      Research paper doesn't agree with wikipedia
      https://www.researchgate.net/p...

    9. Re:Cool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cobalt is commonly found in copper ore. Most big copper mines don't bother extracting it because prices haven't justified the capex and opex of adding the extraction circuits to their ore processing plants.

    10. Re:Cool by Rei · · Score: 1

      They indeed have the richest deposits, but far from the only ones. It seems a lot of companies have been souring on Congo cobalt. They've done a pretty good job working to eliminate artisinal cobalt from their product streams (although there still are some less scrupulous buyers, and origins are sometimes successfully disguised), and a lot are worried about supply reliability. Which is why you've seen most of the new "cobalt rush" outside of the Congo.

      Congo will continue being a major global supplier, but their share of the market will decline.

      --
      It's time for Operation Crazy Plan.
    11. Re:Cool by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      DRC is forecast to have over 75% of production by 2021

      https://www.myknowledgeresourc...

  6. Asteroid mining by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Rising lithium prices could be a good thing. Sounds like we're getting closer to viable asteroid mining!

    1. Re:Asteroid mining by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is it with this delusion about asteroid mining? There's more lithium dissolved in the world's oceans... and it's right here already.

      There's no way to make asteroid mining work. At all. Ever.

  7. Lithium without satellites ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

    ... is ionically, or iconically, or maybe ironically, inferior.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  8. New? Not even. by Khyber · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "Though satellite prospecting of this sort has been employed before, reads a new report in The Economist, to look for metals such as gold and copper, using it to search for lithium is new."

    Nope, I've been using ASTER and LANDSAT 7/8 for years to do mineral-specific prospecting. I just finished a trip out to Lavic near the 29 Palms bombing range hunting boron and lithium minerals.

    These guys are what's new, not the technology nor technique.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  9. Eponymous? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "lithium is the eponymous component of lithium-ion batteries"

      Eponymous - that word does not mean what you think it means.

  10. Chill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I thought you would be looking for plants that were chilled out and relaxed?

    Meanwhile the plants in lithium-poor zones are depressed, have low self-esteem, and get stressed by thoughts of their Mother-In-Law sending seeds their way!