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Seattle To Remove Controversial City Spying Network After Public Backlash (seattletimes.com)
schwit1 shares a report from Activist Post: Following years of resistance from citizens, the city of Seattle has decided to completely remove controversial surveillance equipment -- at a cost of $150,000. In November 2013, Seattle residents pushed back against the installation of several mesh network nodes attached to utility poles around the downtown area. The American Civil Liberties Union of Washington and privacy advocates were immediately concerned about the ability of the nodes to gather user information via the Wi-Fi connection. The Seattle Times reports on the latest developments: "Seattle's wireless mesh network, a node of controversy about police surveillance and the role of federal funding in city policing, is coming down. Megan Erb, spokeswoman for Seattle Information Technology, said the city has budgeted $150,000 for contractor Prime Electric and city employees to remove dozens of surveillance cameras and 158 'wireless access points' -- little, off-white boxes with antennae mounted on utility poles around the city."
The nodes were purchased by the Seattle Police Department via a $3.6 million grant from the Department of Homeland Security. The Seattle Police Department argued the network would be helpful for protecting the port and for first-responder communication during emergencies. As the Times notes, "the mesh network, according to the ACLU, news reports and anti-surveillance activists from Seattle Privacy Coalition, had the potential to track and log every wireless device that moved through its system: people attending protests, people getting cups of coffee, people going to a hotel in the middle of the workday." However, by November 2013, SPD spokesman Sean Whitcomb announced, "The wireless mesh network will be deactivated until city council approves a draft (privacy) policy and until there's an opportunity for vigorous public debate." The privacy policy for the network was never developed and, instead, the city has now opted to remove the devices at a cost of $150,000. The Times notes that, "crews are tearing its hardware down and repurposing the usable parts for other city agencies, including Seattle Department of Transportation traffic cameras."
The nodes were purchased by the Seattle Police Department via a $3.6 million grant from the Department of Homeland Security. The Seattle Police Department argued the network would be helpful for protecting the port and for first-responder communication during emergencies. As the Times notes, "the mesh network, according to the ACLU, news reports and anti-surveillance activists from Seattle Privacy Coalition, had the potential to track and log every wireless device that moved through its system: people attending protests, people getting cups of coffee, people going to a hotel in the middle of the workday." However, by November 2013, SPD spokesman Sean Whitcomb announced, "The wireless mesh network will be deactivated until city council approves a draft (privacy) policy and until there's an opportunity for vigorous public debate." The privacy policy for the network was never developed and, instead, the city has now opted to remove the devices at a cost of $150,000. The Times notes that, "crews are tearing its hardware down and repurposing the usable parts for other city agencies, including Seattle Department of Transportation traffic cameras."
Shit, I'll do it way cheaper than that.
Die, big brother. Keep that shit in the UK.
I just aim a BB Gun at them from across the way. It's much cheaper, and a better investment of tax dollars.
So wait a minute, I thought the /. groupthink said that municipal broadband is the future! Are you telling me that a network run by a government might get used for police monitoring...you don't say!
Have gnu, will travel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_City_Council
8 democrats and 1 socialist.
Go on though, explain to us how it's Trump's fault. Or maybe Russia's.
I am guessing you are liberal so anything you perceive is bad is from Republicans? I would say it is the state that wants to spy and they are as bad as each other, except that the liberals are better at the blame game. These are not spy cameras but "citizen safety cameras"
You can't handle the truth! - Because I don't post left all my comments get modded down, bye bye Karma.
liberals are better at the blame game.
I'm not liberal, but about all I ever see Trump do is blame others.
Mike @ The Geek Pub. Let's Make Stuff!
Fuckers installed a spying network throughout the downtown area. The shit needs to go.
But what the fuck on the wifi mesh routers:
A. Most modern wifi enabled devices support changing your hw address.
B. Most people, especially the poor need internet access to help continue/reintegrate in the world.
C. Red light and traffic cameras are now a much bigger threat than a dainty number of wifi node based cameras. And that is excluding if they've been working out backroom deals with local companies who can just provide them a live feed from their loss prevention/outdoor security cameras without warrant/privacy complaints anyways.
I am not seeing the rationale of this particular shutdown without hard pushes for any of those other systems as well. Nor why this is getting such a huge outcry but those aforementioned systems are not. What about bus security cameras for that matter? You only need a few frames off a bus, either inside, or viewing the street to place someone at the 'scene', and I imagine seattle already has those as well.
yes this is quite a (captcha!) quagmire!
But...but...but...what about your safety? If you have nothing to hide, what's the problem? It could stop a crime bla bla bla bla. I thought Seattle was "progressive" (ie: liberal, socialist etc). You mean you want your RIGHTS protected? What about the common good? What about bla bla bla. hahahaha...Seattle....lDIOTS
Hmm, 'not liberal', but still a TDS sufferer? So a cuckservative #NeverTrump-er then?
It's rare you see one of those outside of the Weekly Standard or John McCain's office.
Did you miss the part of the story that this network was purchased and installed by the police department using "anti-terrorist" funds.
"Be particularly skeptical when presented with evidence confirming what you already believe." -
Honestly, it is just horrible. Seattle is the worst run city in the country. Taxes/costs are insanely high thanks to the city council and the county voters who don't realize everything they keep voting yes on raises their property taxes and sales tax. The problem is they vote on programs like light rail that won't be done for 20 years and "safe injection sites" for heroin users. The homeless problem is Seattle is huge now because of all the money spent on homeless. Crime is going up, drug use is going up, homelessness is going up, police don't to do their jobs and are assholes, and there are protests every week blocking traffic for some bullshit reason. The city council blocked the deal to build a new arena and bring NBA teams back. You might say but hey that's like any other city, but Seattle you get the pleasure of paying five times as much for property and home prices and property taxes for the privilege of living in this mess. It's no wonder Amazon is moving their headquarters from Seattle. Sure they say they are just opening a "second" headquarters but we all know the plan is to move most business out of super expensive shit hole.
So, they installed a mesh network using public money, were caught spying, and instead of fixing the privacy issues, and allowing the public to use the network they already paid for, the government used MORE public money to remove it? That's a lot of public tax money to waste, just to protect the effective monopoly of private telecom companies. Bureaucratic heads should roll.
All they had to do was offer free wifi as well and the public would have ate it up. The real story is how most citizens are voluntarily carrying unique radio beacons 24x7 these days.
but no one talks about that except the crazies right...
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Ok, normally Iâ(TM)m less concerned about privacy than most - that horse bolted long ago, everyone is tracking you every which way all the time and knows all your secrets, so get used to it already.
But in this case they arenâ(TM)t even pretending to that the prime purpose isnâ(TM)t spying. Wtf is the police force doing providing connectivity? And preferring to rip it down when people had concerns instead of creating policy and likely checking what the actual legal system has to say about it.
Thatâ(TM)s some big balls right there, theyâ(TM)re really getting pretty arrogant in Seattle city hall!
Oh. So if the police department purchased it using "free WiFi" funds, that would be cool then?
Marketing really IS everything ...
I do not think you would find resistance from the military if you organized a million man march hell bent on tearing the white house apart with torches rifles and grenades.
You would be wrong, then. The armies of first world nations generally do not operate like they do in whatever shithole you're from. We're not big on military coups.
Sorry, people. If you're basically trying to solve the problem by forcing the entities you know to stop gathering data that's publicly out there, you've lost already. The entities who collect it will just be the ones you don't know...
It's not like the data isn't out there any more. And then governments, when they want/need it, will buy it from that megacorporation that did manage to gather the data without your protests.
so the teachers could get part time jobs. Meanwhile we've got $3.6 million dollar grants for public surveillance. Man, my country has it's head on backwards.
There's always money for stuff like this and bombs but whenever I hear somebody mention underfunded schools somebody chimes in with "Well why should I have to pay for kids in another state?". These folks argue that they don't want money spent on either schools or surveillance, but those same folks always vote in the guys that approve the surveillance. At a certain point what you say you want doesn't matter. It's the results of your voting record that count.
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Your fantasy coup would fail because you think that only extremists like Trump.
Honestly still have no idea why you people do not rise up against him.
Because 40% of these fuckwits are paid shills, 50% are Russian bots, and the other 10% are too afraid to leave their basement without being escorted by their wife's boyfriend.
Mind you, all of the above are a drop in the bucket.
Why will you not rise? Why will you not act? What the holy hell is wrong with you all?
Roughly a quarter of the country voted for Trump. Taxes have been cut and ICE is deporting like fucking madmen. They've no reason to be butthurt.
Roughly half the country didn't vote at all. Dudes not being allowed to piss in women's bathrooms aren't anything they're going to get uppity about.
Roughly a quarter of the country voted for Hillary. Of that quarter, the vast majority voted simply because of usual politics, not, "ZOMG HITLER REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"
The simple fact is that life is good, the economy is kicking ass, and there are only two genders. The fuck do you want people to rise up about and revolt? Mean tweets?
Shit, go slap yourself with Lyndon B's Johnson for being that fucking retarded to even think that's a possibility.
Seattle has a crime problem, homeless problem, and a handicapped police department. The city council is broken, so full of pet causes, they don't actually get any work done. One of the City council members recently complained because the transportation department removed some homeless people from under a bridge to install a fence, this was after the homeless people set fires under a key part of the bridge and were offered relocation assistance.
The police department cant even enforce laws without the city council jumping down on them, or the city prosecutors refusing to charge people. A lot of officers feel like they can't do their job now.
As for these camera, they were installed in parks and other places where there are crime problems. But, whoa, the ultra liberal citizenry of Seattle has a hard time recognizing crime, and benefits of law enforcement and deterrent techniques.
Your government tortures people, that alone should be enough
But it's OK to be surveilled by 100's of cameras in one tiny space, because as long as you get the stuff you want, then it's cool.
I'd like to know that myself. Was the primary purpose tracking people's phones or providing public wifi?
In Beijing, AI keeps track of your moves. Once it knows your patterns, you're flagged if you go to another neighborhood.
A reporter asked them to find him. Later they found him in 7 minutes.
Scary Scary shit.
How /. users completely ignore the police surveillance over reach. It's da liberals fault! Totes not homeland security
Frankly I have no issues at all with 100% surveillance at all times, even within my own home. Yes, all people commit crimes these days as we have so many laws that not breaking a law here and there is impossible. But we can eliminate the armed robberies, drive by shootings, rapes and kidnappings easily. Frankly the system will be so full of criminals that getting arrested for cutting the tag off of your mattress will never occur. Go to Miami Beach and have a nice swim and wonder if your car will be broken into. The bad guys know your waller is in that car. This kind of terrorism could be stopped completely. People often avoid using bicycles as they get sick of locking and unlocking the bikes. Imagine bike, motorcycle and car thefts reduced to zero. And yes, hidden cams can catch you cheating but imagine they also can catch your wife cheating. Cams can be a blessing. I'm all for them.
Why remove 158 Access points? If they were collecting data, and people don't like it, stop collecting data. That is a software issue.
I would guess people complained about the 12 cameras. And some big companies complained about a municipal mesh network. So they combined the two, and took them down "due to complaints".
He's a fascist just like the rest of the GOP, which is a large part of why nobody on the right seems interested in fighting him. He appointed the greediest and most corrupt people he could find and when he couldn't find somebody corrupt and greedy enough, he let the position remain empty.
He is a worthless tant-throwing fuckwit, but let's be honest about the fact that he's doing and saying the things that the GOP has been working towards for years.
Only extremists do like Trump. Moderates don't support the wall, that tax cut for the ultra-rich, the new budget proposal or any of corrupt people he's appointed to various posts.
He and the GOP right now are consistently moving things forward that the majority of Americans don't want, in most cases even a majority of the GOP voters don't want. Trump is supported by a fringe group of extremists that just want to see the country burn. They know damn well that Trump isn't Making America Great Again. And he's doing exactly what they wanted.
You have a different TDS. Trump Dick Sucking.
Now you're just making shit up. See this is why us moderates who don't even really like Trump can't take the rest of you seriously. Trump might be incompetent. He might be lazy and fat. He might be a shit-stirrer. But, I see no evidence that he is extremist, racist, hates women or minorities or, the dumbest allegation of all, a nazi. If you really cared about the cause, you might try being intellectually honest. I certainly don't make my decisions based on over-the-top exaggerations. Don't you see the irony that part of what causes you to think Trump is all of these terrible things is that he is an over-the-top exaggerator?
I 100% agree that this is one of the real problems I have with the presidency in this country. Unfortunately, this behavior did not seem to stop under Obama. Therefore, you lose all credibility by acting like Obama is a saint and Trump a Nazi. How can you not see the clear bias in your own words?
Really, having the Seattle Police Department sponsor these WAPs was the wrong move. It immediately raises the concern of monitoring citizens.
Police departments are great (in a general sense) but they are always going to have a Law & Order mindset. It just comes with the territory. You aren't ever going to hear a police press release like the following: "So, like, there was this dude who whaled on this other dude, and it was so totally uncool! People should, like, chill out, you know? We're looking for the first dude but why? Dude should smoke a spliff, order a pizza and relax!"
What most people don't realize is that the Feds use any location they own or lease to install similar surveillance, as does King County, and the State of Washington, and the Port of Seattle. Which gives you full surveillance over pretty much half of Seattle.
Ask the correct questions. All they removed are the ones that were on city property.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Who is to say? Sounds very much an opinion of who you ask, and only certain people would have full knowledge of what was behind the scenes.
I'm extremely glad privacy won for once. I just hope their crime doesn't go up because of it. The eternal trade off I suppose.
Am I reading this correctly? They didn't have a privacy policy in place BEFORE these things went up and even after the public outcry they couldn't be bothered to put one in place so they just (thankfully) ripped out the system? A publicly vetted and posted policy should be the FIRST things to be created when a surveillance system is put in place not an afterthought.
I do not think you would find resistance from the military if you organized a million man march %%%% bent on tearing the white house apart with torches rifles and grenades.
Perhaps not the military, since their mission is not domestic peacekeeping or law enforcement, but certainly police and if it really were a million people the national guard. Depending on how close they actually got to the White House, the Secret Service, and make no mistake about it, those guys are willing to shoot to kill to protect the President. Though I'm guessing he would be in Marine One and out of there long before a mob reached the White House.