California Becomes 18th State To Consider Right To Repair Legislation (vice.com)

Jason Koebler shares a report from Motherboard: The right to repair battle has come to Silicon Valley's home state: Wednesday, a state assembly member announced that California would become the 18th state in the country to consider legislation that would make it easier to repair your electronics. "The Right to Repair Act will provide consumers with the freedom to have their electronic products and appliances fixed by a repair shop or service provider of their choice, a practice that was taken for granted a generation ago but is now becoming increasingly rare in a world of planned obsolescence," Susan Talamantes Engman, a Democrat from Stockton who introduced the bill, said in a statement. The announcement had been rumored for about a week but became official Wednesday. The bill would require electronics manufacturers to make repair guides and repair parts available to the public and independent repair professionals and would also would make diagnostic software and tools that are available to authorized and first-party repair technicians available to independent companies.

Comments

can they repair their state first?

[Anonymous Coward]

seriously they live in a state that is fucked up beyond belief, try repairing that first imo

Re:can they repair their state first?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not until they are finished paying for their $100 billion train to nowhere.

Re:can they repair their state first?

[b0s0z0ku]

California is a lovely place to live outside of LA and Silicon Valley. Plenty of nice places that aren't out in the desert. High (progressive) income tax + low (regressive) real estate taxes are actually a good thing.

And as goes CA, goes the country -- hope this one passes.

Re:can they repair their state first?

[Anonymous Coward]

Low taxes and a healthy FU to the gov't works best.

Re:can they repair their state first?

[Anonymous Coward]

seriously they live in a state that is fucked up beyond belief, try repairing that first imo

Yes, poor California, huge contributor to the federal coffers, billions in exports, and even able to correct the rampant gerrymandering before like 90% of the GOP-run states.

Why compared to Mississippi, Alabama, or West Virginia, it's practically hell on Earth.

Re:can they repair their state first?

[b0s0z0ku]

I like my social safety nets, even if you're all Whoratio Alger.

Re:can they repair their state first?

[Anonymous Coward]

Addendum: A healthy Fu to those who'd deny us our rights too.
I'll fix what I damned well want to.

Re:can they repair their state first?

[whoever57]

In general I agree with you, but the problem is that anywhere in the USA is a shitty place to live in comparison to most Western Democracies if you are poor.

Re:can they repair their state first?

[Anonymous Coward]

Shove nibberizing safety nets up yo azzwhole, Trotsky perp! OTOH karma whores so let narco.MEX and M-13 bangerboiz rape your daughter. As for progressive repair , where are my tin-snips!

Re:can they repair their state first?

[Anonymous Coward]

$100 billion? You're dreaming. If, in fact, it's ever finished (which I doubt) the cost will surely be well above that (even inflation adjusted). The first segment is way over budget and it's nowhere close to done.

Boston had the Big Dig and California was jealous that they hadn't had a transportation project in a while that was as far over budget so created HSR for the win.

Re:can they repair their state first?

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you ever actually been to WV or are you just regurgitating internet talking points?

I hope that someday I can retire there. It's a breathtakingly beautiful place.

Re:can they repair their state first?

[PopeRatzo]

Low taxes and a healthy FU to the gov't works best.

I'd tell you to enjoy Kentucky, but I see that they just outlawed child brides. More big government overreach, amirite? Maybe Alabama will be more to your liking.

Re:can they repair their state first?

[PopeRatzo]

Have you ever actually been to WV or are you just regurgitating internet talking points?

I've been there! What do I win?

I hope that someday I can retire there. It's a breathtakingly beautiful place.

If you think a strip mine is beautiful. I hope you don't mind bottled water, unless you like coal sludge, of course. It's so beautiful there that everyone has to crush up and shoot Oxycontin to get through the day.

Re:can they repair their state first?

[BlueStrat]

Low taxes and a healthy FU to the gov't works best.

I'd tell you to enjoy Kentucky, but I see that they just outlawed child brides. More big government overreach, amirite? Maybe Alabama will be more to your liking.

Come now, that's not fair. People in different regions of this huge nation are...different. Doesn't make them bad. Honestly, the overwhelming majority of people in the US agree on basic principles we simply disagree on what & how to do or not do in our going about exercising and upholding them.

Don't allow demographic/ethnic/racial/religious/party group identities lead you to believe in absolutes and generalities when it comes to discussing issues with people you may not generally agree with politically. That goes for all sides. If roughly half the population is "the Enemy", where does that leave us? Camps? Pogroms?

You and I are generally far apart politically, yet I'm here to say I agree with and support this proposed Act by the Democrats in California and hope similar legislation is passed in other States.

Don't worry too much about politics as politics is fleeting and mostly just a show for the masses like professional wrestling or the ancient Roman Circuses.

It's principles that really count, the good news being that most of us share far, far more principles than we differ on.

Strat

Re:can they repair their state first?

[TheGratefulNet]

says the AC too ashamed to use a real account?

no details, either? just a shitpost and an exit.

not even sure why we reply to AC's. and not sure why his was voted up. it was as content-free as it gets.

I live here in cali and while its not perfect, its heaven for hardware types like myself, who also do software for their day-jobs. just come visit HALTED electronics (well known in the bay area) and go show me other places that have this kind of surplus gear for sale. there are places in the US who have stores like this, but this is just one of many in the bay area (the first one that comes to mind).

the traffic is worse in the north east (where I spent a lot of my youth) and the brutal weather back east is nothing I want to see, ever again.

food is great out here, we're not all one culture, the only down-side other than house prices is the ageism in hiring. once over 40, its hard to find and keep tech jobs.

but that's the only real down-side.

AC's can shitpost all they want, but they are just showing how jealous they are, really.

Re:can they repair their state first?

[PopeRatzo]

Come now, that's not fair. People in different regions of this huge nation are...different.

That's true. Some regions like to marry 13 year-olds and some vote Democratic.

Don't worry too much about politics as politics is fleeting and mostly just a show for the masses

Your statement would be more convincing if your signature line didn't accuse all liberals of wanting a police state. Don't bullshit man. I like you just fine the way you are and you don't have to pretend with me.

It's principles that really count, the good news being that most of us share far, far more principles than we differ on.

Is colluding with a non-friendly foreign government in order to tamper with a US election one of the principles that count for you?

Re:can they repair their state first?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Come now, that's not fair. People in different regions of this huge nation are...different."

And this is why you will fail. We in Europe must, by right, be exactly the same. Heterodoxy is seriously frowned upon and soon, we hope, banned. People need purpose. People need to be guided. We have the European Commission to do just that. And that is why Europe is the rightful master over the whole world.

Re:can they repair their state first?

[BlueStrat]

Your statement would be more convincing if your signature line didn't accuse all liberals of wanting a police state.

This needs to be addressed first.

My sig refers to ideas and ideology, not people. That's a large part of why there's such a disconnect. Nazis of the 19030s/40s are bad, but the German people are and were not bad, it's the Nazi ideas that are bad. Calling those ideas out as bad is not saying the German people are bad. Same thing here. I'm criticizing a set of ideas, not people.

We need to be able to discuss ideas calmly and logically or there is no hope of maintaining a stable nation.

Come now, that's not fair. People in different regions of this huge nation are...different.

That's true. Some regions like to marry 13 year-olds and some vote Democratic.

And in California men marry men and women marry women which is just as strange to them. Again, you attack some mythical group that somehow all believe in lockstep when that's not true of either Left- or Right-leaning people in the US, and somehow also believe your ideas are superior by default. That just works to stop people listening to what those who may disagree are actually saying. It doesn't help solve anything and only makes things worse.

Besides, that's not really fair as few places still have laws allowing marriage that young, and many are old laws left over from as far back as the Reconstruction era. The States you referenced were also States for many decades prior to many of the more liberal Western States and so those much more recent States started out with more-current laws and customs.

Can't we find things, like this proposed Act where we share common ground, that we can come together on and stop demonizing each other on and trying to "win" by any means, even destroying innocent people's lives? It's either that or eventually we end up in a place where there are internment camps and mass graves.

Strat

Re:can they repair their state first?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's true. Some regions like to marry 13 year-olds and some vote Democratic.

You truly are a fucking douche-nozzle.

Re:can they repair their state first?

[Anonymous Coward]

I would love to see you actually interact with a person like this. You would look pretty funny trying to eat without your teeth.

Re:can they repair their state first?

[Anonymous Coward]

Truth hurts, huh?

Re:can they repair their state first?

[PopeRatzo]

My sig refers to ideas and ideology, not people.

What's that now? You have found ideologies that exist in the absence of people?

And in California men marry men and women marry women

You may not have seen the news, but same-sex marriage is now the law of the land in all 50 states. Men marry men and women marry women in every one of them.

Besides, that's not really fair as few places still have laws allowing marriage that young, and many are old laws left over from as far back as the Reconstruction era.

And the places that allowed marriage that young still had cases of families giving away child brides. When you say these are "old laws", why do you think those "old laws" have been changed in other places but places liike Kentucky held on to them so fiercely?

The States you referenced were also States for many decades prior to many of the more liberal Western States

That's a weak excuse. Massachusetts and New York have been states at least as long as Kentucky, but don't allow 13 year olds to be "given away" by their families.

Can't we find things, like this proposed Act where we share common ground, that we can come together on and stop demonizing each other on and trying to "win" by any means, even destroying innocent people's lives?

The irony is thick when a conservative in the Age of Trump asks for civility and "common ground".

Re:can they repair their state first?

[PopeRatzo]

I would love to see you actually interact with a person like this. You would look pretty funny trying to eat without your teeth.

Well, at least one of us started out with teeth.

Re:can they repair their state first?

[imrahilj]

I don't know about New York, but Massachusetts actually does. There is a bill currently somewhere in the legislative process to end the practice, but as it stands now there is actually no lower limit on when a minor can marry in Massachusetts with parental consent. https://malegislature.gov/Bill...

Re:can they repair their state first?

[Anonymous Coward]

you might want to actually learn something before you inflict your ignorance on everyone here.

Re:can they repair their state first?

[TheFakeTimCook]

It's principles that really count, the good news being that most of us share far, far more principles than we differ on.

Todd Rundgren has an EXCELLENT song addressing that exact point (that we are all more alike than different, regardless of politics, religion, etc). The Title is "Family Values", on his solo album from 1995, "The Individualist".

Definitely worth a listen! Here ya go:

https://genius.com/Todd-rundgr...

It was an "Enhanced" CD, with an (interactive!) video animation to go with each song. I can't find the one for "Family Values"; but here's a version of the song that is VERY close to the one on the album. Sounds just like a slight remix, but close enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Enjoy!

Re:can they repair their state first?

[HeckRuler]

Nazis of the 19030s/40s are bad, but the German people are and were not bad, it's the Nazi ideas that are bad. Calling those ideas out as bad is not saying the German people are bad. Same thing here. I'm criticizing a set of ideas, not people.

That carries less weight when you remember that not all Germans in 1946 were members of the NAZI party. NAZIs were political supporters of Hitler's regime. It was a big deal whether or not you were a party member. Probably less so than in China these days, but I'm not sure.

Ok, look at it this way. I'm absolutely sure there were people in the KKK that were pretty ok people. It might have been just been peer pressure, or maybe it was more like a BBQ group, or a drinking club with a racial pride disorder. But they supported and gave political weight and legitimacy to some TRULY horrendous leaders that did terrible things.

There comes a point where people will start blaming you for supporting atrocities. I'm still not over the fact we got ~300,000 civilians killed in Iraq. For as embarrassing as the current situation is, it isn't nearly that bad. You've got to self-police the crazies in your party. You've got to go against the flow. I personally leaned towards Damore with that google memo. And I'm constantly calling bullshit on idiots denouncing free speech and conflating it with the first amendment. At some point you are defined by the choices you make, the ideologies you espouse, and the people you support.

But hey, all that said, I'm all sorts of down for calm discussion, stable nations, and common ground. I too like the right to repair. And forcing companies to hand out documentation at the end of a gun (behind a few layers of threats, fines, and courts) is just fine with me as well.

Re:can they repair their state first?

[TheFakeTimCook]

Have you ever actually been to WV or are you just regurgitating internet talking points?

I've been there! What do I win?

I hope that someday I can retire there. It's a breathtakingly beautiful place.

If you think a strip mine is beautiful. I hope you don't mind bottled water, unless you like coal sludge, of course. It's so beautiful there that everyone has to crush up and shoot Oxycontin to get through the day.

It IS actually beautiful country. My sister and ex-brother-in-law lived there for a time.

However, the operant word is "Retire"; because, although "breathtakinly beautiful", there is essentially NO WORK. My sister and B-I-L were both degreed nurses; but she simply couldn't find work, and he ended up working part-time as a DJ in a Roller-Rink...

Re:can they repair their state first?

[PopeRatzo]

he ended up working part-time as a DJ in a Roller-Rink...

That actually sounds kind of awesome. I could see myself spinning some roller-disco bangers in a rink. My concern would be that the West Virginia skaters would want to hear country-rap and I'd have to burn the place down.

Here is a dream sequence of me spinning records at a roller rink:

https://youtu.be/vprZhrFNL_U

Re:can they repair their state first?

[TheFakeTimCook]

food is great out here, we're not all one culture, the only down-side other than house prices is the ageism in hiring. once over 40, its hard to find and keep tech jobs.

That's true in the Midwest, where I live, too. I had to take a job writing (shudder) Windows ERP SW.

Re:can they repair their state first?

[Anonymous Coward]

You may not have seen the news, but same-sex marriage is now the law of the land in all 50 states.

So was Dredd-Scott for many years. Were those who opposed it wrong since it was "the law of the land" certified by the SCOTUS?

Sorry Snowflake, your views are not automatically correct just because they're yours. Ideas are not people. Conflating them is simply a tactic to shut down rational discussion.

Re:can they repair their state first?

[Optic7]

Pope, even though I'm a leftist I have to point out that after reading this whole thread I feel that you are being overly uncivil toward Strat.

Re:can they repair their state first?

[Optic7]

Ok, I'm a leftist and thus feel a bit put off by your signature (although not entirely since I criticize "liberals" from the left - I would really need to understand what exactly you mean before passing judgement). I also feel that your example of Germans and Nazis is really shaky ground for an example to make an argument out of. Similarly, the gay marriage thing also seems like not the most apt example.

However, I agree with or at least understand your perspective on much of what you say on this post otherwise. Perhaps consider that your signature makes you come across as less reasonable and nuanced in your thinking than you actually appear to be.

Re:can they repair their state first?

[PopeRatzo]

Pope, even though I'm a leftist I have to point out that after reading this whole thread I feel that you are being overly uncivil toward Strat.

You caught that, did you? Wow, nothing gets by you, does it?

You may not have noticed, but the time for civil discourse ended when a black man became president and we were treated to eight years of the most over-the-top racism and hatred.

Apparently, like budget deficits, angry rhetoric is only acceptable when Republicans do it.

Re:can they repair their state first?

[Anonymous Coward]

when a black man became president

A black man? Really? When was this?

Obama was half white and half black. Black father, white mother.

Simply because Obama is a racist corrupt-ocrat that stood with Louis Farrakhan and attended the racist Rev. Wright's church for almost 2 decades and who intentionally stirs up racial division and uses the race card as a political tool, that still does not make him a black man.

Re:can they repair their state first?

[Optic7]

You do yourself a disservice with your insults/snarkiness/anger.

I voted for and gave his campaign money three times (including the primaries), but I'm glad I haven't felt so injured by some of the opposition's reactionary response that it has made me stoop to their level of discourse. That would only make things worse.

Re:can they repair their state first?

[PopeRatzo]

You do yourself a disservice with your insults/snarkiness/anger.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki...

Re:can they repair their state first?

[Optic7]

Sigh. Thanks for the off-topic link. None of that applies, and my messages to you have been completely honest.

Re:can they repair their state first?

[BlueStrat]

Ok, I'm a leftist and thus feel a bit put off by your signature (although not entirely since I criticize "liberals" from the left - I would really need to understand what exactly you mean before passing judgement).

Even if we end up not agreeing, let me start out by thanking you for being civil and open enough to ask. I'll do my best to help you understand.

It's actually Progressivism and Progressives I have issues with, not classic Liberals which are libertarian. I tried to hint at the distinction, but there's only so many characters allowed in the sig.

The other part is simply the fact that as you create more and more laws that intrude ever deeper into individual behaviors, thoughts, beliefs, health choices, etc etc ad nauseam, the more intrusive the monitoring and more authoritarian the enforcement need to become in order to insure a high enough level of compliance from the population. The more control you wish a government to have the more control it must exert, and the only tools besides propaganda a government has to exert control are surveillance/monitoring, imprisonment, and death.

The number one killer of all time even outpacing plagues and wars are people's own government killing them. Government is the deadliest weapon ever invented by Man and it's first victim is always liberty.

Strat

Re:can they repair their state first?

[Optic7]

You're welcome, and thank you too for explaining. Here are my thoughts in response:

First, I think that one of the problems is that labels like progressives, liberals, conservatives, etc. mean different things to different people, and their meaning changes over time and mean different things in different places, even places that use the same language. This ends up causing all kinds of major problems because people end up attacking others just based on labels, and not for actual ideas and actions.

Second, I feel similarly about intrusion into people's personal lives, but from the other side. I think that you are mistakenly targeting progressives/liberals because conservatives are just as apt to intrude into peoples lives, just for different reasons (sexuality, drugs, abortion, etc). I can understand why someone may think this way though. Unfortunately, much to my chagrin progressives/liberals have been increasingly strident over the decades about moralistic stuff that either doesn't matter or is just counter-productive to much more worthwhile causes.

Finally, I do have to disagree about government. Yes, there have been some terrible examples, but there have also been great examples. The thing is that there is no viable alternative to government and there never will be. The alternative is being trampled by a different power that you have no control over, every other week. To very remotely paraphrase that famous saying about democracy, government is terrible but it's the best choice we have out of the available options.

Re:can they repair their state first?

[BlueStrat]

Second, I feel similarly about intrusion into people's personal lives, but from the other side. I think that you are mistakenly targeting progressives/liberals because conservatives are just as apt to intrude into peoples lives, just for different reasons (sexuality, drugs, abortion, etc).

I'm more small-"L" libertarian and so those sorts of attempts at legislating morality (War on Some Drugs, for example) I have strong objections to and part ways with many mainstream US "conservative" views. On the other side, O'm against forcing Christians to participate in activities supporting same-sex marriage. Why try to usurp the Christian religion and try to force it to change? Found your own church and practice whatever religion or no religion you want and marry trees or rose bushes for all I care. Leave others be.

Finally, I do have to disagree about government. Yes, there have been some terrible examples, but there have also been great examples. The thing is that there is no viable alternative to government and there never will be.

Government is a necessary evil and should be treated like fire or nuclear fission/fusion. Use only the very minimum one needs while taking extreme precautions against it growing out of control and constantly monitoring it's operations. The original vision for the US was for it to be a collection near-mini-nations in the form of the sovereign States, much like the EU, with a weak central government that had just enough power for treaty-making, foreign trade agreements/tariffs, national military, currency, and just a few other responsibilities. It has since become central control and command government over a group of provinces with only very limited power over their own affairs under laws and regulations created thousands of miles away in Washington, D.C.

I look at the US Founders as the first network security experts. Government is a network for political power as the 'net is for data. A network comprised of a central mainframe and dumb terminals are easier to be suborned that a network of stand-alone machines with different OSs, security appliances, etc and that cross-check each other and if needed perform a system re-imaging on the central server if compromised or corrupted, That's why the US was designed to not have a strong central government and why I view expansion of Federal power and scope as a very dangerous thing.

I would suggest, if you've never taken the time, to devote some time to reading through the Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers to gain a deeper understanding of the theories and reasoning behind the US Constitution and the dangers of allowing too much government power.

Strat

Re:can they repair their state first?

[Optic7]

In some ways I'm sympathetic to libertarian ideas. I tend to score as left libertarian on the politicalcompass.org test. Their test is interesting because they measure two different scales: economic and social.

I don't feel that Christians are really being forced to participate in activities supporting same-sex marriage. The only case that I'm familiar with that could be described that way is the gay wedding cake case, but that one is a complicated enough case that it has been taken on by the supreme court.

I'm again sympathetic to the idea that government can be dangerous, but I think whether we need more or less or just different government is another complex philosophical that I have not thought enough about to answer with certainty. I have seen people refer to the Federalist papers before and would like to read them when I have a chance, so I can learn more. Thanks for the suggestion/reminder. There is a whole bunch of political philosophy materials that I really need to read.

Re:can they repair their state first?

[BlueStrat]

I don't feel that Christians are really being forced to participate in activities supporting same-sex marriage. The only case that I'm familiar with that could be described that way is the gay wedding cake case, but that one is a complicated enough case that it has been taken on by the supreme court.

In that wedding cake case, the lesbian couple had frequented the bakery several times, letting it be known to the owners that they were lesbian, the couple were served normally like everyone else. The problem was when the couple decided that they wanted the Christian bakery to make them a custom wedding cake with text celebrating same-sex marriage. That's when the Christian owner balked, but did recommend some nearby bakeries he knew that did good work and would be willing. The couple was having none of it, and so here we are.

If a Christian baker must if asked bake a cake celebrating that to which he fundamentally objects, where does it end? Will Muslim bakeries be equally compelled to produce cakes with messages supporting same-sex marriage? Will LGBTQ bakeries be compelled to produce cakes celebrating traditional marriage?

You cannot compel people to actively create messages that promote that which they fundamentally object to as part of their beliefs.

I would also strongly encourage you to find a bit of time to read the Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers. It sounds like a lot of reading, but it's actually much less reading than you might expect. They're also fascinating, as these guys were real world-class geniuses and true Statesmen in the best meaning of the word, totally unlike the corrupt-clown-posse we have in D.C. these days.

One must have at least a passing familiarity with the ideas and principles on which one's nation is founded if one expects to be able to form any sort of cogent, worthwhile opinions on that nation's running.

I hope I've answered at least some of your questions and satisfied some of your curiosity. Please don't hesitate in future to post a reply to something I post and ask a question or state your opinion, as I value and respect the thoughts of those who will take the time to learn before forming conclusions.

Thanks again and good luck!

Strat

Re:can they repair their state first?

[Optic7]

Thanks for the additional details on the cake case. I have a feeling that the supreme court will come down on the side of the baker, because of the reasons you stated and because it actually makes sense not to compel the baker's speech. I say that even though I support people's right to same-sex marriage.

I will definitely read them to learn more. I too wish we had better politicians across the spectrum, and it would be interesting to read about when they were much better.

You have, and I hope I have done the same. Please feel free to do that on my posts too. I enjoy discussing things with people who are willing to do so in an honest and civil manner, even if we disagree on some values.

Thanks and good luck too!

right to repair legislation

[Anonymous Coward]

Duh, of course all states should have the right to repair broken legislation.

Re:right to repair legislation

[m.alessandrini]

Or the right to use punctuation in a title.

Imagine if Marilyn Sued JFK

[Anonymous Coward]

But she couldn't because he had her killed before she could.

Re:Imagine if Marilyn Sued JFK

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice to have Frank as your friend, when Frank's friends could do this job. And did. And did it well. His father had the same done. Ted, his brother...

Horrible idea..

[Anonymous Coward]

Yea it seems great to be able to just buy a new screen to replace your old cracked one. I've actually done it for my iPhone with varying success few times. But few tries and you'll probably get decent at it.

However.. There is this lithium ion battery inside.. Damage it somehow, leave something extra in accidentally (there's not a lot of space), have it puncture, and then burn the house down next time you charge the device.. Or even worse, have it catch fire next time in an airplane. You may have noticed that nowadays dropping a phone inside an airplane seat puts the cabin staff basically in panic mode. To avoid damaging the battery and causing a fire you are not allowed to move the seat at all.

No thanks. I'd rather electronics repair only be done by highly competent certified people who you can properly sue if something goes wrong.

Re:Horrible idea..

[Bing Tsher E]

My current phone has a little door I can pull off that gives me access to the lithium battery inside. I have opened it multiple times. I even dropped it once and it popped open on it's own. The battery spilled out that time, but it didn't go off like a grenade.

You have some interesting fantasies about lithium batteries.

Re:Horrible idea..

[b0s0z0ku]

Simple -- tax anything that has a built-in non-servicable LiIon battery 50%. A LiIon battery that's user-replaceable by design represents a minimal danger. Built-in batteries are a big scam to make sure that people throw their devices away when they lose capacity.

Re:Horrible idea..

[b0s0z0ku]

Most phones don't. Because manufacturers prefer you to throw them away after the LiIon fails. Simple: tax any phone, tablet, or laptop with a non-removable battery severely to discourage their sale.

Re:Horrible idea..

[Anonymous Coward]

Ooh! Another tax! Heavy handed and incredibly stupid. How much is that pissant tax going to cost to support and enforce?
Easier to just allow people to work on what they own.
Companies that don't allow this, don't get the money. No taxes necessary. Market forces will prevail.

Re:Horrible idea..

[Anonymous Coward]

You may have heard of Samsung phones.. Where they made the battery compartment too small such that normal thermal expansion wasn't accommodated and eventually the batteries burst out in flames. I believe it was in the news and there may have been some kind of a recall - may have even been a forced software kill switch that was invoked due to the severity of the manufacturer caused issue.. Then there are generic band Chinese hoverboards that burn houses down every other day..

Reality is that poor lithium batteries at best don't hold a charge very well, and at worst go up in flames. Worst is if some ignorant repair person causes a minor cell damage that eventually turns up into a major issue. Might be just a slight misassembly. Until solid state lithium batteries become reality, there's very little reason to let lay people mess with these..

I've replaced a few iphone batteries myself. Few of them worked out fine, seemed to have no problem. Few of them held their charge kind of at first and then soon not really any better than the original worn out battery. All were bought at around same cost from amazon from similar looking retailers.

Point being, its impossible to quality control these. Same with chargers. Impossible to quality control some random third party chargers. You may be willing to risk your property for a few saved bucks, but I would prefer you do it away from me. There's a good chance that nothing happens, but more than a decent chance that something may. Especially if this somehow becomes 'normal' practice mandated by law..

Re:Horrible idea..

[dgatwood]

However.. There is this lithium ion battery inside.. Damage it somehow, leave something extra in accidentally (there's not a lot of space), have it puncture, and then burn the house down next time you charge the device.. Or even worse, have it catch fire next time in an airplane. You may have noticed that nowadays dropping a phone inside an airplane seat puts the cabin staff basically in panic mode. To avoid damaging the battery and causing a fire you are not allowed to move the seat at all.

Having replaced the lithium ion battery in my previous cell phone, I think you're grossly overstating the risk. Most of the risk is in accidentally puncturing the old one while you're removing it. Once you get the old one out, the odds of you doing anything that will cause it to later fail are pretty small unless the battery is defective.

Re:Horrible idea..

[JWSmythe]

I've probably had thousands of lithium ion batteries pass through my hands over the years.

When I started playing Ingress, battery packs weren't popular and yet, so we carried spare batteries. To play for hours, we had to swap batteries, or be tethered to a car. They were dropped, manhandled, and otherwise abused. Of everyone I know that did it, none died. No explosions. No fires.

The only real thing we found was, repeated charge/discharge cycles daily did eventually degrade the life of the batteries. A typical work day could be 1hr before work, .5 hours on smoke breaks and lunch, and a few hours in the evening. That's just Ingress. Actually using the phone as a phone added hours, but didn't suck up the battery life as much.

We see the same from ecigs and 18650 batteries. I only made one smoke, and that was by physically cutting the battery open. I wanted to see what was inside. :)

The only battery that I've had swell to the point of almost bursting was a Macbook Pro's battery. I stopped using it months before, and only noticed when the battery cover popped off by itself.

Re:Horrible idea..

[Bing Tsher E]

Ironically, my phone with the non-exploding lithium battery is a Samsung Galaxy J3.

firs7 post

[Anonymous Coward]

This p0st up.

But still screw 'em the old way

[BrianMarshall]

...and would also would make diagnostic software and tools that are available to authorized and first-party repair technicians available to independent companies.

Can't have mere users having diagnostic tools... they might find that they can repair the thing without paying a repair technician.

Re:But still screw 'em the old way

[EETech1]

It'll end up costing more for the cable to connect to it than it would cost to replace the unit.

Re:But still screw 'em the old way

[Anonymous Coward]

No way, diagnostic tools are known to cause cancer to the state of California.

Re:But still screw 'em the old way

[rtb61]

How about source code, the right to repaid the broken arse POS Windows anal probe 10 and get rid of the privacy invasive shit and permanently block the cunts at M$ from installing software on your property, your digital life, those fucking sickening scum, the filth right out of George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty Four, their ideas are as sick as fuck.

Re:But still screw 'em the old way

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I've always wandered why things that are safe in other parts of the world cause cancer in CA. Oh well, fortunately I moved out of there so I don't have to worry about perfectly normal things causing cancer any more.

Can I ...

[PPH]

... order some parts to fix my AR-15? The full auto mode is inoperative.

Nope

[Okian Warrior]

... order some parts to fix my AR-15? The full auto mode is inoperative.

Your AR-15 doesn't have a full auto mode.

You can modify an AR-15 to be full auto, but it's tricky and probably won't work. The AR-15 tends to jam when fired at full-auto rates.

Also, such modifications are illegal.

What you *can* do is modify a liberal so that they know what they're talking about when it comes to guns.

That's also tricky and probably won't work, but it's not illegal.

Re:Nope

[PopeRatzo]

Your AR-15 doesn't have a full auto mode.

You can modify an AR-15 to be full auto, but it's tricky and probably won't work. The AR-15 tends to jam when fired at full-auto rates.

The "AR" in AR-15 stands for "The Actually Rifle 15" because any time someone gets some inconsequential fact wrong about it, 15 idiots will appear out of thin air to "actually,,," you with some boring nonsense about their stupid murder machine.

Nobody really cares except other potential school shooters.

Re:Nope

[nasch]

If you're participating in a debate/conversation, you should care about facts.

Re:Nope

[PopeRatzo]

If you're participating in a debate/conversation, you should care about facts.

And if you're participating in a debate about preventing school kids from being shot up, you should care at least as much about the school kids as you do about whether someone is using the proper terminology for the killing appliance that was used to slaughter them.

Re:Nope

[Anonymous Coward]

ARs, lol. SIG rifles are way better.

Re:Nope

[Anonymous Coward]

And if you're going to talk on that subject, you should familiarize yourself with the history of the tools you're talking about. If you did, you'd realize that the AR15 was designed to be less lethal, hence calling it a "murder machine" or "killing appliance" is disingenuous, but you'll wave that off and is part of why we can't have a real discussion on the matter. Facts don't matter to you.

Re: Nope

[Anonymous Coward]

Replacing the lower receiver works just fine in my experience. No real jam issues either.

The benefits of a proper FFL remedy the legal issue.

It was fun, but wasteful.

Re:Nope

[penandpaper]

Grandstanding on freshly dug graves to push your politics while bemoaning the ones with facts... How admirable.

Re:Nope

[nasch]

What did you want him to say, "here's a correction to your misinformation, also I care about kids"? Just because the thing he was correcting is not the most important part of the debate doesn't mean he shouldn't have done it.

Re:Nope

[swb]

I think the only tricky thing is that most civilian AR lowers have a shelf/obstacle that prevents a selective fire trigger group from being installed.

But if you didn't have this, I'm not sure why an AR would be any more jam prone than a selective fire rifle from the factory.

Gimmicks like filing the disconnector down may produce "automatic fire" but are dangerous and illegal. When I fit a new precision trigger group, the instructions had a section about making sure you didn't relieve the disconnector too much because it made it an illegal machine gun. IIRC, they even would even exchange the part for free just to keep you from keeping it.

Re:Nope

[PopeRatzo]

Grandstanding on freshly dug graves to push your politics while bemoaning the ones with facts

I guess you're not old enough to remember 9/11.

Re:Nope

[penandpaper]

I didn't like the emotionally driven reaction policy after 9/11 as I don't like it now with Florida. If you didn't like that done after 9/11 but do it now then you are a hypocrite.

A grandstanding fact-deriding hypocrite. How admirable.

Re:Nope

[Anonymous Coward]

The only people that care about weapon facts are school shooters?
That sentence just shows you care more about nonsensical emotional arguments than facts. Some people actually care about the truth more than your meaningless liberal politics of 'feelings over fact'.
Eat shit.

Re: Nope

[Anonymous Coward]

There are plenty of people with liberal beliefs that are also pro second amendment. No need to cast stereotypes, we can also see through the emotional BS and misinformation being casted about AR-15's, which are not assault weapons.

To the real conversation, utilities and diagnostics should be given to owners as a right to repair. Preferably open sourced.

YES! I strongly support this, but..

[MpVpRb]

Modern electronics is becoming impossible to repair, by its nature

Replacing a BGA chip is not feasible with normal electronic tech tools

Re:YES! I strongly support this, but..

[dszd0g]

I don't think this law requires them to sell replacement BGA chips. However, they generally sell the whole board to swap out. If it's not under warranty, for some electronics buying a replacement board is more expensive than buying a new one. I don't know if this law changes that.

Re:YES! I strongly support this, but..

[sjames]

Fortunately, most failures are the battery, the screen, or a broken connector. Those can be easy fixes if they're allowed to be.

Re:YES! I strongly support this, but..

[TheGratefulNet]

what a stupid and partial argument.

so, when one cap blows inside (mostly it IS caps, from china, the fake ones that have electrolyte that lasts one year+one week) you want to throw the whole thing away because 'big chips' scare you?

get out of the way, adults are here and we want to do real work. you should go to your room and let the adults talk.

Re:YES! I strongly support this, but..

[evil_aaronm]

I've repaired dozens of iPhones and iPod Touches and have yet to replace a BGA chip. Most times, it's a battery or a screen. Maybe a home button. In the one case where I had to replace a motherboard for an iPhone 5, I replaced the entire mobo unit, which was actually not that difficult. It was more trouble finding a suitable replacement unit.

Re:YES! I strongly support this, but..

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm an embedded engineer and have replaced dozens of bga, dip, pga and abcxyz chips in the last 30 years (I started in my preteens).

Re:YES! I strongly support this, but..

[TheFakeTimCook]

Modern electronics is becoming impossible to repair, by its nature

Replacing a BGA chip is not feasible with normal electronic tech tools

I've been saying this since this idiotic legislation has been being pushed by know-nothing legislators.

Re:YES! I strongly support this, but..

[TheFakeTimCook]

I'm an embedded engineer and have replaced dozens of bga, dip, pga and abcxyz chips in the last 30 years (I started in my preteens).

You're a liar.

PGA (Programmable Gate Array) is NOT a PACKAGE-type; so you are just sticking terms you have seen together.

Plus, a REAL Embedded Engineer would CAPITALIZE the Acronyms for "Ball Grid Array" and "Dual In-Line" packages.

So, STFU and FOAD, and let the adults talk.

Full disclosure: I AM an embedded engineer.

no BS rule need we can't give out full restore ima

[Joe_Dragon]

no BS rule need as well.

I have head that We can't give out full restore images as some people may mess and write the image to there hdd and not a SD card. That is from someone who works at (withheld) that makes (withheld) they said also said that it will make the about 1GB or more updates (more like full images packaged in a way that device can read from usb and will work on any (withheld) even the wrong one for your (withheld) as you just need an basic boot to load the right code for your device. They said some time they may post an basic os restore image (still have not) as the full os (for the base line hardware system) + (full device code) is to big. Due to cost cutting the hardware can't not boot from USB (only SD card)

Now one of there competition has full restore iso + small updates out side of the full install image that is needed time to time to say up to date (easy to put on USB) (can boot from USB and SSD) but they usb security dongles.

when you can't buy an OEM part or need to distribu

[Joe_Dragon]

when you can't buy an OEM part or need to buy from distributor? Or when some stuff is only sold to certificated techs (that may have to pay a lot / follow rules that drive up costs to be on the list)

In past apple sold parts for big $$ with an refund when the old part was sent back.

Great!

[Paradise Pete]

This is good news indeed, as there's plenty of legislation in need of repair.

Batteries

[nightfire-unique]

Please, please, please make it illegal to manufacture or offer for sale any device into which a battery has been glued.

Single issue vote from me. e-waste ain't no laughin' matter, yo.

Re:Batteries

[TheFakeTimCook]

Please, please, please make it illegal to manufacture or offer for sale any device into which a battery has been glued.

Single issue vote from me. e-waste ain't no laughin' matter, yo.

Well, then Apple is safe. They have used adhesive strips that are designed to "release" when stretched, like 3M "Command" Adhesive.

Tape is not glue, per se.

Sounds a great idea...

[Archtech]

... there is so much legislation that needs to be repaired.

Please provide downloadable net lists

[Anonymous Coward]

bom, gerber files with full source code. And the photomask. To be fully serviceable. Also user manuals for any and all custom IC's.

That would be just great!

Re:Please provide downloadable net lists

[TheFakeTimCook]

bom, gerber files with full source code. And the photomask. To be fully serviceable. Also user manuals for any and all custom IC's.

That would be just great!

Ha!

You can't even get that kind of documentation from the chip manufacturers themselves for many SoCs, without signing an NDA and showing them what Project(s) you have in mind.

First world problems!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd say if the right to repair your phone is the biggest injustice you can find in your life, you (a collective you, not yhe poster, per se) live in a tower that is gilded, indeed. It's silly that you can't, but I would hardly call it protest or legislation worthy. Speak with your dollars (of which you clearly have plenty of), boycotts work. Oh, but that would mean leaving your comfort zone for a little while. Silly me!

Call me an iCynic ...

[Anonymous Coward]

... but I predict a big wave of campaign contributions, dark money, and revolving-door job offers originating in Cupertino and washing ashore in Sacramento.

Do I support an extensive right to repair? Well, let's put it this way: I've taken apart several of my old ThinkPads to repair dead fans, broken Ethernet jacks, and burned out LCD lights, and I kept my previous smartphone going ten years by buying a new battery every couple/few years -- around $16 bucks a pop for a jumbo-sized one, with a brand-new matching aluminum back -- and swapping it in myself, which took a couple of minutes each time. (And the only reason it took that long was because the new batteries' packaging was tricky to get open.) And when I look at my dad's new X1 Yoga and my new Moto G5S Plus, I realize that if anything at all goes wrong inside (including a prematurely aging battery), we're f*cked. Or at least out the cost of a very expensive repair. So you're damn right I support the right to repair. And I haven't even mentioned e-waste or wars over and slave/child labor for rare-earth-mineral mines...