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Researchers Discover Colistin-Heteroresistant Germs In the US (arstechnica.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: For the first time, researchers have discovered strains of a deadly, multidrug-resistant bacterium that uses a cryptic method to also evade colistin, an antibiotic used as a last-resort treatment. That's according to a study of U.S. patients published this week by Emory University researchers in the open-access microbiology journal mBio. The wily and dangerous bacteria involved are carbapenem-resistant Klebsiella pneumoniae or CRKP, which are already known to resist almost all antibiotics available, including other last-line antibiotics called carbapenems. The germs tend to lurk in clinical settings and can invade the urinary tract, bloodstream, and soft tissues. They're members of a notorious family of multidrug-resistant pathogens, called carbapenem-resistant Enterobacteriaceae (CRE), which collectively have mortality rates as high as 50 percent and have spread rapidly around the globe in recent years. A 2013 report by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimated that there were more than 9,300 CRE infections in the U.S. each year, leading to 600 deaths. Both the CDC and the World Health Organization have listed CRE as one of the critical drug-resistant threats to public health, in need of "urgent and aggressive action."

In the new study, the Emory researchers discovered two strains of CRKP -- isolated from the urine of patients in Atlanta, Georgia -- that can also resist colistin. But they do so in a poorly understood, surreptitious way. At first, they appear vulnerable to the potent antibiotic in standard clinical tests, but with more advanced testing and exposure to the drug, they reveal that they can indeed survive it. In mice, the strains caused infections that couldn't be cured by colistin and the mice died of the infections. Mice infected with typical CRKP were all saved with colistin. So far, there's no evidence of CRKP infections surprisingly turning up resistant to colistin during treatment in patients. But the authors, led by microbiologist David Weiss, say that may be because the evidence is difficult to gather, and the data so far is cause for concern. The researchers concluded that the findings "serve to sound the alarm about a worrisome and under-appreciated phenomenon in CRKP infections and highlight the need for more sensitive and accurate diagnostics."

75 comments

  1. Great news! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Now we don't have to worry about artificial intelligence wiping us out.

    1. Re:Great news! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As the old saying goes, artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity. Wash your damned hands, people.

    2. Re: Great news! by schure · · Score: 2

      I don't think there's so much we can do to fight antibiotic resistance. Remember this video? https://youtu.be/plVk4NVIUh8

    3. Re:Great news! by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      A new supergerm gets discovered at nearby Emory at the same time a CDC researcher disappears and we see an unusual spike in flu deaths? Someone get Art Bell on the phone, pronto!

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    4. Re: Great news! by thomst · · Score: 2

      schure cautioned:

      I don't think there's so much we can do to fight antibiotic resistance. Remember this video? https://youtu.be/plVk4NVIUh8

      MDs who gave in to their patients' demands for antibiotic prescriptions to treat viral infection, such as colds and influenza - neither of which are in any way affected by antibiotics of any kind - bear a certain amount of responsibility for the rapidly-decreasing effectiveness of our antibiotic arsenal. Farmers are still more responsible, since they routinely use massive amounts of antibiotics in animal feed. (In cattle country, USA feed stores all display tetracycline and amphicillin powder in open barrels with convenient scoops the size of garden trowels stuck in them for customers to purchase bulk antibiotics priced by the pound.) That's why we're facing the end of the antibiotic era and an impending return to the soaring childhood disease and purpueral fever mortality rates that were ubiquitous throughout human history prior to the mid-20th century.

      Yes, evolution was always destined to eventually obsolete antibiotics, per the video to which you linked. But we have enormously hastened that process by our careless and profligate overuse of what were once "silver bullets" that should have been jealously treasured and expended only when absolutely necessary. Now they're rapidly becoming nerf balls, instead - and we have only our own collective foolishness to blame for that.

      The forthcoming introduction of the new, superbug-killing antibiotic teixobactin notwithstanding, we're waging a losing battle against microbial infections - and I find the prospect horrifying ...

      --
      Check out my novel.
    5. Re: Great news! by gweihir · · Score: 1

      There is. Stop using antibiotics when you have a simple cold. Restrict them to serious and life-threatening situations only. Stop using antibiotics for improving meat yields in farming. And start research again in finding more, if needed entirely on public money.

      All that requires a little less greed and selfishness and more understanding of what is going on. Hence I am not hopeful. As a general rule, people are stupid, greedy and arrogant. Antibiotic resistances are just one of the symptoms of that.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    6. Re: Great news! by dcollins117 · · Score: 1

      Acting in the best interests of their patients is what doctors get paid to do. They have extensive training, knowledge, and first-hand experience to rely on.

      Antibiotics are indicated for viral infections because they prophylactically prevent secondary infections. It's not because doctors are conspiring to eradicate mankind.

    7. Re: Great news! by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Wait until they come up with Artificial Stupidity.

    8. Re: Great news! by Swave+An+deBwoner · · Score: 1

      (In cattle country, USA feed stores all display tetracycline and amphicillin powder in open barrels with convenient scoops the size of garden trowels stuck in them for customers to purchase bulk antibiotics priced by the pound.)

      Serious question: how is this allowed? These are prescription-only pharmaceuticals right? I can't just walk into a drugstore and pick up a bottle of either of these antibiotics without a prescription.

      Is there some part of the law that controls access to these that explicitly exempts feed stores?

      Googling the question brings me to an article that states that pet stores routinely sell prescription antibiotics without prescription:

      http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM200207183470319

      https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/here-are-reasons-you-shouldnt-take-fish-antibiotics-180964523/

      I am amazed.

    9. Re: Great news! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No man is an island. You could not use one single antibiotic in your entire life, but if you end up catching one of these super bugs, the treatments the hospital has just won't work.

      The patients aren't becoming immune to the antibiotics, rather the virus strains are becoming more versatile and resistant.

    10. Re: Great news! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is. Stop using antibiotics when you have a simple cold. Restrict them to serious and life-threatening situations only. Stop using antibiotics for improving meat yields in farming. And start research again in finding more, if needed entirely on public money.

      All that requires a little less greed and selfishness and more understanding of what is going on. Hence I am not hopeful. As a general rule, people are stupid, greedy and arrogant. Antibiotic resistances are just one of the symptoms of that.

      Everything we do or fail to do has consequences. Sometimes those consequences are not immediately apparent, sometimes consequences are apparent but the connection to the original action or inaction is contested. Contention just delays the inevitable. At some point the consequences become obvious to almost everyone. Death is a sure cure for denial. In this case, consequences have been a long time coming and have built up a significant amount of biological momentum. It's like the tiny snowball that started rolling gently downhill for 90 years ago and has been gathering size and speed. At some point nature says "Paybacks are a bitch".

    11. Re: Great news! by thomst · · Score: 1

      dcollins117 blathered:

      Acting in the best interests of their patients is what doctors get paid to do. They have extensive training, knowledge, and first-hand experience to rely on.

      -1 Offtopic.

      Antibiotics are indicated for viral infections because they prophylactically prevent secondary infections. It's not because doctors are conspiring to eradicate mankind.

      Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

      And don't put words in my mouth. I never said or implied the widespread (mal)practice of prescribing antibiotics for viral infections was a conspiracy. It's not. It is - or was, at any rate - extremely common, especially among GPs, however.

      As to why the practice is/was so prevalent, the internists with whom I've discussed the issue (all of whom are bitterly critical of their fellow MDs for engaging in it) have fairly unanimously agreed that their GP cohorts basically give in to their patients' demands for antibiotics because those patients are largely ineducable on the subject - and because, for decades, there was a mistaken belief among them that prescribing useless antibiotics was merely a harmless concession to those imbecilic patients' conviction that penicillin was a universal panacea for diseases of all kinds. That's strictly anecdotal, of course, but it certainly rings true.

      What the studies I cited and anecdotal evidence from MDs with whom I've discussed the problem both strongly indicate is that prophylaxis ("preventative prescription" for lay readers) is absolutely not the primary reason most doctors who engage in the practice of antibiotic prescription for viral infections do so.

      Doctors are human. They cater to their patients' demands for medication that is of absolutely no value beyond placebo for those patients' actual medical issues simply to get them off their necks - and thereby preserve their positive regard. As long as MDs can persuade themselves that there's no harm in them doing so, it's simply easier to humor their patients than to say, "No," and risk alienating them ...

      --
      Check out my novel.
    12. Re: Great news! by thomst · · Score: 1

      I stated:

      (In cattle country, USA feed stores all display tetracycline and amphicillin powder in open barrels with convenient scoops the size of garden trowels stuck in them for customers to purchase bulk antibiotics priced by the pound.)

      Prompting Swave An deBwoner to exclaim:

      Serious question: how is this allowed? These are prescription-only pharmaceuticals right? I can't just walk into a drugstore and pick up a bottle of either of these antibiotics without a prescription.

      Is there some part of the law that controls access to these that explicitly exempts feed stores?

      Large-animal veterinarians routinely write multiple-refill prescriptions for bulk-purchase antibiotics for livestock farmers and ranchers. Their local feed store keeps a copy of those prescriptions on file, so their customers can buy antibiotics in bulk without being inconvenienced by the need to hand over a new prescription form each time they visit. It's a "good ol' boy" thing.

      Googling the question brings me to an article that states that pet stores routinely sell prescription antibiotics without prescription:

      http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM200207183470319

      https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/here-are-reasons-you-shouldnt-take-fish-antibiotics-180964523/

      I am amazed.

      Pet antibiotics - and especially those for fish - are a different issue. As are pet vaccinations.

      FWIW - with the exception of rabies vaccine, I administer all our dogs' vaccinations and innoculations myself, because DIY is MUCH less expensive than having a veterinarian do it ...

      --
      Check out my novel.
    13. Re: Great news! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Grey water treatment plants see some pretty interesting super bugs that are highly antibiotic and anti-microbial resistant because of all of the anti-bacterial products in use.

    14. Re: Great news! by schure · · Score: 1

      +1

  2. The US health care industry is TO BLAME. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Why is that, you ask ?

    Slack sterile procedures and a mentality that makes profit the over arching goal.

    I wouldn't willingly be an in-patient in ANY hospital in the US, because of the two factors above.

    And yes, there are other countries, such as Germany and Switzerland, where they are far more careful about sterile procedures. I have first-hand experience which backs up my claim, which I will cite below.

    I sat for weeks waiting outside the ICU ( intensive care unit ) at a major US hospital, while a family member was stricken with a serious illness and was bedridden in that ICU. As I watched, not one single doctor stopped at the alcohol scrub station which was outside the ICU, prior to entering the ICU. Nearly all the nurses DID stop and scrub. The doctors were ( obviously ) in a hurry, and since they have more authority than most other hospital staff, it was unlikely anyone was going to take them to task for not scrubbing. Do you think those doctors carried pathogens with them into the ICU ? If you doubt that, you're either very naive or just plain stupid.

    The US health care system is badly messed up. Many doctors want to make lots of money, and time IS money. Until the authorities step up and take action about the slack sterile procedures used in US hospitals, this mess is going to get worse. What's really bad about it is that the pathogens are evolving and, in essence, the US hospitals are a "training ground" which produces pathogens which are resistant to ALL available antibiotic drugs. If you don't think that is a big deal, imagine what the world was like before penicillin, when even a simple infection could and did often mean death.

    I have a number of friends who ARE physicians who work in hospital environments, and every one of these people agrees with me that there is a problem with sterile procedures in the US health care system. None of them wants to stand up and raise hell about it because they could find themselves without a job at that hospital as a direct result. It's a hell of a mess. Personally I think government intervention is required, along with very substantial civil and criminal penalties, before the problem is dealt with in an effective manner.

    Cue the Slashdot knowitalls, who will try to tell me I am wrong about the above. The thing is, I am not wrong and all of us are in jeopardy because of the current state of affairs. One in-patient hospital visit could be all it takes to underscore that reality. DO you feel lucky ?

    .

    1. Re:The US health care industry is TO BLAME. by burtosis · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You are correct about the health care industry in general. For example the way companies try to keep people on dialysis instead of cheaper and more effective treatments is a criminal act and has undoubtedly caused many many needless deaths (see John Oliver). But, it's not really the doctors just wanting to make money. Management has these doctors on extremely tight schedules, keeps detailed records of all activity, and pressures them constantly to turn out more procedures and more expensive proceedures per day in a way that would make any sales staff manager proud. The goal of unbridled profit is not anywhere near maximizing patient care, that's why Americans pay over double any other country for healthcare, yet the outcomes are far worse putting the USA 31st in the world among all countries for life span, 5 spots below Slovenia. If we cut out the waste by disbanding all health insurance companies, price capped it to be just over what any other country paid, we could give all Americans free healthcare, free college for all, and still spend a trillion dollars less per year than we do on so called "health care" alone.

    2. Re: The US health care industry is TO BLAME. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's wrong with Slovenia?

    3. Re:The US health care industry is TO BLAME. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      John Oliver died from dialysis???

    4. Re:The US health care industry is TO BLAME. by CODiNE · · Score: 1

      Seems to be referring to this.
      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=...

      --
      Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
    5. Re: The US health care industry is TO BLAME. by johannesg · · Score: 2

      What's wrong with Slovenia?

      Nothing, but it lacks the budget to set up the kind of health care that Americans would expect. Yet that doesn't stop it from, apparently, offering better healthcare anyway.

    6. Re: The US health care industry is TO BLAME. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One of the complicated aspects of healthcare is that because it's complicated, people don't always understand what they see. It's possible that your observations were entirely correct, but your may have missed that the doctors skipping the hand-sanitizer had just washed their hands fully in another room - a reason I might skip using hand sanitizer moments later. If you aren't running a trial that takes thorough observations and testing - random hand swabs, for example, you might miss what is actually happening.

      On the other hand, just because the nurses were using hand sanitizer - less effective than hand washing but easier on the skin, doesn't mean they were safer. I have seen nurses adjust rectal tubes and then immediately after a nasogastric tube - on which bacteria could creep, which I requested be removed. Healthcare staff have to wash hands between dirty and clean tasks for the same patient.

      All that said, feel free to ask if you have concerns about a healthcare practice - I'm sure people would rather explain than have their actions be misunderstood.

    7. Re: The US health care industry is TO BLAME. by burtosis · · Score: 1

      Yep, I was really surprised to learn how well they are doing over there. I think the USA could learn a few things from them.

    8. Re:The US health care industry is TO BLAME. by burtosis · · Score: 1

      Correct, sorry was in a hurry and didn't have time to add links.

    9. Re: The US health care industry is TO BLAME. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Antibiotic stewardship is now a JCAHO requirement at critical access hospitals. And please believe that relatively to other groups in healthcare, physicians don't have time to be administrators. They are frequently NOT the boss, and rules (known as policies) are not made by them. Everyone, physicians included, gets in major trouble for violating Joint Commission rules (JCAHO), particularly around the time of a review. It is far from perfect, but it does exist. I suspect the combination of antibiotic use in food and use in hospitals contributes significantly to this. There was a study not long back that showed a bacterium developing resistance to an enormous amount of antibiotic just by being continuously exposed for a few days.

    10. Re:The US health care industry is TO BLAME. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are right; I have seen similar things. However, that's not the only problem. Another problem is world travel, and tourism to and immigration from countries with endemic infection problems, where in addition antibiotics are not well regulated and available over the counter. A final problem is simply overpopulation, which allows for quick spread in overcrowded places, like third world, er, I mean "developing" countries.

  3. Thought & Prayers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    Not to worry, thoughts and prayers will save the worthy amongst us.

    This resistance is hardly unexpected. Organisms evolve to resist threats and antibiotics are a threat.

    1. Re:Thought & Prayers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, for them to be common in the US is a bit unexpected.
      Usually they pop up in countries with a good sanitary situation but where many doctors have outdated training.
      Eastern Europe and Russia are hotspots for these kind of things. (Traditionally second world countries.)
      China has a bit of the problem but not as bad.
      Surprisingly the doctors in Africa seems to be able to keep it together well.

      This is also one of the cases where it doesn't help to have superstar doctors that knows everything.
      It doesn't matter if you have the best doctor in the world. What is important is to not have the worst doctor in the world.
      It is the lower end that matters.

    2. Re:Thought & Prayers by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Well, if you put cooks into positions of power in your country that not only question the validity of evolution and development in organisms but also that bacteria can make you sick, you get what you deserve.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Thought & Prayers by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Well, if you put cooks into positions of power in your country

      Putting cooks in power is a half-baked idea. Perhaps you should have attended the primary debates so you could give them a grilling, but you probably had too much on your plate. I think we're all toast now as a result.

      Anyway, food for thought.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  4. Re:Heteroresistant? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 0
    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  5. I expect its the farming industry, actually. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    For many, many years the farming industry has subjected livestock to continual doses of antibiotics. This makes animals the perfect breeding ground for antibiotic-resistant bacteria.

    Our medical industry foresaw this long ago and put a ban on the routine use of antibiotics on human patients as a preventative measure; using them only after diagnosis of something that specifically needs them for treatment. The farming industry did not follow suit, because it is much cheaper for them to keep animals in unsanitary conditions and just continually pump them full of antibiotics so they don't get diseased.

    I didn't see anything in the summary specifically saying whether or not this is a likely origin of the resistant bacteria, so I don't know for sure. But I do know that we as a culture continue to abide a medically disastrous approach to keeping our meat prices low, and we are going to really suffer as a result of it.

    1. Re:I expect its the farming industry, actually. by cavreader · · Score: 1

      "so I don't know for sure."
      Well that certainly didn't stop you from blaming the farming industry now did it?

    2. Re:I expect its the farming industry, actually. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The poster presented a hypothesis along with a rationale for it, and admitted that he didn't have compelling evidence of a connection in this specific case.

      And the best you can do is pass moral judgment on the post for this very admission?

      Amazing.

    3. Re:I expect its the farming industry, actually. by tlambert · · Score: 1

      If they are the "perfect breeding ground", why is it that my plans for word domination are constantly thwarted by antibiotic resistant cows who are also bacteria resistant?

      Seriously, if penguins are a better culture medium, is there any other megalomaniacal evil genius who can confirm it?

      Currently, we are using ferrets, and the results are less than spectacular.

    4. Re:I expect its the farming industry, actually. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you see some farmers routinely injecting new arrivals to their cattle with the last resort antibiotics, you know something will break eventually.

    5. Re: I expect its the farming industry, actually. by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Comprehend much?

    6. Re:I expect its the farming industry, actually. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The poster presented a hypothesis"
      No. The poster followed today's SOP of making accusations of wrong doing without any facts to support their assertions. When someone calls them on their hyperbolic bullshit they claim it was only a "hypothesis" and if that doesn't do the trick they start asserting their 1st Amendment rights. And the 1st Amendment needs to be amended to require the person who is taking advantage of the right needs to have an IQ higher than room temperature. "hypothesis" and "rationale" based upon some ones unsupported opinion and conjecture is just bullshit where the proles can wallow around in their stupidity while bragging about their brilliance insight.

      HIs "hypothesis" and "rationale" was based entirely upon information he himself admitted he was not sure of. Of course he has people defending his bullshit which in his mind makes his statements 100% true. And today's truth is being divined by how many "Likes and "attaboys" in all the various echo chambers.

    7. Re:I expect its the farming industry, actually. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice rant. You might find this an interesting read.

    8. Re: I expect its the farming industry, actually. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Farming does not have access to all antibiotics. Farming can only use basic and older antiobiotics, ie penicillin. Basically if an animal gets something nasty, they die. I treat animals daily, what do you do?

  6. Re:Scientists are murderers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Animals cannot give consent, they don't have the cognitive capacity. But of course you know that.

    On the one hand, it is cruel to subject animals to medical experimentation. They suffer and die, and that's cruel.

    On the other hand, it is cruel to, through inaction, allow humans to suffer and die from diseases that we could cure. Is the life of a young child worth the life of a few mice?

    Of course it is. Humans kill and eat animals every day. Our society has collectively spoken; our moral position is clear. It is ok to harm animals in order to gain scientific knowledge, or to fill our bellies.

    That's the world in which we live.

  7. Reasons for this are multifold... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    First of all, there are way too many products out there that contain anti-bacterial compounds, starting with hand soaps all the way up. it is OUR fault that we came to this point of having incurable infections. Just like we built immunity to things, so do bacteria and we keep exposing them to all these compounds that are added to everything. The industry is to blame for that.

    Next, the "pharmas" probably have better and stronger, more effective cures but they are all shelved. To them it's all about profit and they don't care who lives and who dies, if they can't make a buck on it.

    The process of drug testing and approval in North America is insanely convoluted, costly and lengthy, "pharmas" don't bother with it unless they are desperate for more profit. And right now they are thinking: "why ruin a good thing we got going with current drugs." Again, they don't care who lives and who dies, even if they have cures for most of these things and many others.

    You don't believe me? Find some friends who work for the "pharmas" and they'll tell you first hand. It's a system problem across multitude of industries, not just "pharmas."

    If you want treatment, you will have to resort to "medical tourism" to a country that is not owned and ruled by various industries. One might argue that they have more lax rules for drug testing and approval making it less safe, but I believe that do be an edge over critical things like currently un-treatable infections, cancers, etc.
    Sometimes you have to break a few eggs to make an omlet, so if those CRISPR injections Chinese are doing right now on patients, without decades of previous testing, are saving lives and prolonging their life expectancy, then I say why would anyone stand in the way of that. The conventional methods did not work on those patients anyway, and that has been known for decades, actually since the 1920s in case of chemo- and radiation-therapy for cancer (which is really effective in 25% of cases).

    But I digress from infections to cancers. Curing infections does not necessarily require drugs, but this continent is owned and ruled by industries and their interests, so unless it's a magic pill that costs $1,000 per, nothing else will fly. Perhaps some day someone in the main stream medical field will actually look into other disciplines/fields beside pharmacology for answers, though it's unlikely to happen as all grants are only made for drug research, as otherwise they could not be patented and sold over the counter.

  8. Fake liberal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is not a position you truly hold. You are typing like a conservatard who's mimicking a liberal. None of the save the animals groups have ever held the position that consent is what is needed. You're pissed you just can't willy nilly rape whomever you want. GTFO.

    1. Re:Fake liberal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a position I arrived at independently.

      I know from personal experience how to get animals to consent. A pet bird used to bite when her water was changed. I talked to her, sometimes for a half-hour, before changing her water, asking her not to bite me, telling her it hurt when she did. When I finally got up the nerve to change her water, she would wait till I was just about finished and jump at me, but graze her beak against my hand instead of grinding down hard as she was well capable of.

      Scientists lack imagination to figure out how to communicate with mice.

      Not long ago scientists smugly asserted that there was no evidence animals had emotions.

      Scientists who experiment on animals without giving the animals a choice preference test are unethical.

      Choice preference tests are used now in animal science and they should be used to let each animal decide if they want to participate in the experiment or not.

    2. Re: Fake liberal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I once considered myself a left-leaning liberal.

      My positions haven't changed much, but suddenly I find myself being called a Nazi fascist because I think people should be allowed to say whatever stupid things they want without fear of physical attacks or imprisonment.

      You think this person was being dishonest because they appear to hold a position that is ridiculous... And maybe they are, but what got you upset enough to respond was the little edge of doubt, or maybe the legitimate fear, that this person might be sincere... Or at least a worry that someone might think that they are, because this patently retarded position sounds exactly like what the modern Left might easily say.

    3. Re: Fake liberal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The left should say that animals have self-evident rights. The left are pussies though.

    4. Re: Fake liberal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Found the weird kid that slaughtered his neighbours cat.

    5. Re: Fake liberal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Found the weird kid that slaughtered his neighbours cat.

      Good.

      Because the FBI sure isn't going to "find" him before he shoots up a school.

  9. reasons are legion, solutions are limited by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One might suggest a move back to another method for fighting bacteria, viruses.

  10. Re:Scientists are murderers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Today Lee Camp proposed labeling cartons of factory-farmed eggs with the brand name "Oh shit what kind of fucked species are we anyway"

  11. Re:Scientists are murderers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Predators. That's what kind of species we are.

  12. Stop fucking feeding our last antibiotic to pigs b by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Like, duh.

  13. Re:Scientists are murderers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm not. I want no part of such a predatory species. Please liberalize suicide markets and/or drugs so I can exit this predatory neoliberal nightmare you all have created. Jains have not been predators and have survived since before recorded history. I'm with the Jains, you all have forgotten ancient knowledge that allowed us to survive hundreds of thousands of years without being predators.

  14. Nanobots needed ASAP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can't wait for nanobots to wipe out germs, viruses, cancer, etc.

    Fuck Mars. Nanobots NOW!!

  15. The real reason for this by burtosis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Antibiotics in meat is the #1 cause. Instead of letting genetically diverse animals graze and live in a storybook farm setting, animals are nearly clones and are packed cheek to jowl and force fed suboptimal food that maximizes growth. To keep profits as high as possible they are force fed antibiotics 24-7-365 by the hundreds of millions. This is the most effective way to develop resistance outside of engineering it in a lab setting. It also is a problem in that people want antibiotics for everything, and often don't even finish the course. Between these two practices many of our antibiotics are now becoming worthless. Further there is little money to be made on antibiotics but billions keeping the incurably sick alive, if only for awhile so there is a massive negative pressure to using antibiotics responsibly.

    1. Re:The real reason for this by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      Different set of problems from meat.

      The guy above has it right. U.S. Doctors at hospitals are lax about sterile conditions outside of operations. It's been found repeatedly. There are signs up to remind them. They ignore them at least some of the time.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    2. Re:The real reason for this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are 100% correct that farming is the reason for antibiotic resistance. Cattle, chickens, whatever are constantly on antibiotics, which means all of the bacteria in their bodies are under pressure to gain resistance. All those bacteria and leftover antibiotics are shat out and end up in rivers and streams, where they meet bacteria in nature. Now antibiotic resistant bacteria have been found in fish in the Gulf of Mexico due to all of this crap going down the Mississippi. Our food supply is practically designed to create antibiotic resistant bacteria and spread them around the world. If we want to have a chance to keep any of our drugs effective, we have to make antibiotics illegal for animal usage. Period.

    3. Re: The real reason for this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure that only happens in the US . Beyond your bigotry, there are actual studies that show that nearly half of British women have fecal matter on their hands due to not washing after visits to the bathroom. With cultural proclivities such as that, they probably see a higher intersection with their doctor population. The other question to ask is how well are they sterilizing their tools (i.e. flash autoclave is becoming the standard to save time).

    4. Re: The real reason for this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agree about the factory farming.

      Patients have two misconceptions about antibiotics, which should be disabused. One - antibiotics will make them feel better. On the contrary, many cause unpleasant indigestion, diarrhea, or yeast infection as a side effect, leading to early discontinuation. With any intervention, weigh the risks and the benefits - sometimes those possible side effects just aren't that important in the face of serious illness. Two - that antibiotics will shorten the course of a disease; for many common infections, if you have an intact immune system antibiotics won't significantly shorten the length of disease. They can be helpful for *certain* patients, who might not fight infection well, and/or *certain* infections - why we have medical schools and not OTC antibiotics.

    5. Re:The real reason for this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Laxity around sterile conditions is unlikely to result in the creation of resistant bacteria, even if it might contribute to the spread of harmful bacteria in general.

    6. Re:The real reason for this by burtosis · · Score: 2

      Well, arguably that would be slightly more effective than just banning it for any farm or livestock use, I'm not sure we could get people to buy into it when little fluffy dies of an infection from a simple cut or the vet tells them it's the "libtards" ruining thier life again. We should also crack down on using antibiotics for things like just about every last type of viral infection or other cases where it's not even indicated in the literature but the patient insists on it. It's going to be a scary world without antibiotics because most safe and simple surgery on humans today becomes a high fatality event and things like a simple scratch can become fatal in a way no one living in first world countries even remembers.

    7. Re: The real reason for this by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      A useless coward said...
      > I'm sure that only happens in the US . Beyond your bigotry, there are actual studies that show that nearly half of British women have fecal matter on their hands due to not washing after visits to the bathroom. With cultural proclivities such as that, they probably see a higher intersection with their doctor population. The other question to ask is how well are they sterilizing their tools (i.e. flash autoclave is becoming the standard to save time).

      Okay.

      First. As a certain bard regales... I was born in the U.S.A.

      Secondly, I haven't been in hospitals in other countries. I have been in hospitals in the U.S.A. and furthermore, I've been reading articles about problems in U.S. hospitals for over three decades when these diseases first arose. Probably longer than you've been alive.

      These superbugs are mainly limited to hospitals. Sterile conditions are not as important when you are going from one person who is basically healthy to another person who is basically healthy.

      Sterile conditions *do* matter when you are dealing with sick people who are being given antibiotics to kill germs. You don't want to get fresh germs on someone who's antibiotics are wearing out from the last dose because that's ideal conditions to fail to kill very slightly resistant germs. Once you have a population of very slightly resistant germs, now you have the basis for resistant and super resistant germs.

      So that means take your full course of antibiotics to ensure 100% of the germs are dead, not 99.9999999999% of them. And it means employees in hospitals need to be vigilant that zero germs are transmitted from patient to patient via instruments, clothing, skin, etc.

      meanwhile... we have hospitals firing nurses for being sent home sick with the flu. Think those nurses are going to stay away while infected or come into work and spread it to everyone else (like the "super workers" in business who come in sick and give it to everyone in the office).

      You should probably ask questions before making assumptions. I'm from the U.S.A. I speak from experience. I'm old. I've seen it happening personally. I've also seen careless doctors and nurses misset drug administration machines for 10x the prescribed dosage and not catch it for hours and (probably) kill another patient. Be patient active- not patient passive.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    8. Re:The real reason for this by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      Laxity around sterile conditions in an environment where antibiotics are in use to kill germs which result in 99.999999% of the germs being killed instead of 100% of the germs being killed breeds germs which are resistant to both sterilization procedures and to antibiotics. They are also bread by germs being carelessly reintroduced to patients who are 'well' and have low levels of antibiotics left in their system.

      U.S. doctors were too convinced of the power of pills and antibiotics and too ignorant of how quickly germs could become immune if even a few of those germs survived the antibiotics or sterilization technique.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
  16. No new antibiotics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    are allowed to be developed in the USA. This is accomplished due to strong regulation and strong lawyers who together ensure it is just not economical to develop new drugs. Regulation always helps the major players in the industry because they can afford to work with the system that is bared to the little guy. Martin Shkreli could only have done what be did without the FDA. The FDA and legal system basically guaranteeing him a monopoly. The solution is to severely curtail the power of the FDA. The FDA was a good organization at first, but like all good organizations over time their usefulness diminishes until the point they are doing more harm than good. Also there is no reason to be suing companies that are making a good faith efforts to not intentionally kill people with crappy drugs. In the case of the Opiod companies, a good point could be made for suing them, but not the guys selling the MMR vaccine, no matter how many alleged cases of Autism it causes. The bottom line is that penicillin could not have been developed in the USA today with the current FDA and legal framework.

    If we can do this maybe we could get some new antibiotics to combat these apocalyptic bacteria the media keeps talking about. Barring that we need to develop the human immune system by exposing it to dangerous microbes. Remember every time you wash your hands you are weakening your immune system. White people developed our superior immune system by living in filth. We need to go back to those good old days.

  17. Re:Scientists are murderers by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

    I'd eat a Jain if I were starving.

    --
    echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  18. All due to market fundamentalism in the US by Optic7 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The factors that some posters above have mentioned all point back to factors that are in place because of extreme market fundamentalism, (i.e. neoliberalism) in the US:

    1. Slack sterile procedures in hospitals - oh no, we can't force hospitals to fix this because hospital profits.
    2. Vast abuse of antibiotics in animal farming - oh no, we can't force meat producers to fix this because industrial agriculture profits.
    3. Abuse of antibiotics by doctors, patients, and consumers - oh no, we can't force everyone to only use antibiotics when absolutely necessary because pharmaceutical profits.

    In other words, the neoliberal answer to this issue so far has been: we can't fix it because it would affect profits. Just keep on dying.

    1. Re:All due to market fundamentalism in the US by edtice1559 · · Score: 1

      #3 has nothing to do with pharmaceutical profits. Antibiotics for humans are all generic and cheap and there's no profit in them. It is a cultural problem of patients demanding them.

    2. Re:All due to market fundamentalism in the US by Optic7 · · Score: 1

      I stand by my point. Sure, patients do demand them, and the doctors go along probably for fear of lawsuits, but there is also a heavy profit motive on the other end to not do anything about that detrimental demand.

      If someone is selling a lot of something, there's a profit to be made. Pfizer milked Zithromax (azythromycin) for all it was worth. That antibiotic was extremely popular (wikipedia says it was the most prescribed antibiotic in 2010) and they milked it so much that it's losing its effectiveness (my doctor told me that it's losing it last year, explaining why it's no longer his first choice).

      Also consider the case of Purdue pharma (and likely others), who have made billions and billions and fought tooth and nail and even broken laws to keep the flood of opiate painkillers going despite the absolute carnage that this causing (worse death epidemic than AIDS was). Again according to a brief wikipedia search, a dose of codeine for example costs one dollar. A course of Zithromax, which is like 5 or 6 pills seems to cost over $30. Why would Pfizer not do everything in their power to keep selling as much as they could the same way that Purdue has been, unless someone stopped them?

      Finally, when I said antibiotics, I was including antibiotic ointments. How much profit do you think Johnson & Johnson (previously Pfizer too) makes from selling Neosporin in every drug store, convenience store, and supermarket in the US?

      In the US, the only large market for Neosporin, the ointment may promote the prevalence of MRSA bacteria,[8] specifically the highly lethal ST8:USA300 strain.[9]

    3. Re:All due to market fundamentalism in the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's good for a handful of bacteria. Doesn't really cover streptococcus organisms well anymore, but it was always second line for them.

  19. Re:Scientists are murderers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your species is predatory, whether or not you as an individual act on those instincts.

    Since your species is also omnivorous, you can thrive on a vegan diet. That doesn't mean you aren't a predator, it just means you aren't engaging your abilities in that domain.

    However, you cannot thrive without some degree of killing of animals; it is impossible. Your body is routinely invaded by micro-animals that it kills off. You kill off thousands of mites every time you take a shower. You squish the occasional bug every time you walk around outdoors.

    The vegan food you eat includes bugs as well. If you eat anything processed, then it has some ground-up bugs in it. Even if you eat exclusively unprocessed plants, the farming techniques that produced them involved killing plenty of insects, and there are still micro-animals on and in the raw, organic plants you eat.

    You can't escape it. You are simply too large.