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Lawmakers Continue Fighting For Net Neutrality in the US Senate, Courts, and States (cnet.com)

Here's the latest developments in the ongoing fight over net neutrality rules:
  • CNET reports that Democrats in the Senate "have been pushing to use the Congressional Review Act to roll back the FCC's repeal of net neutrality rules. They've gotten the support of 50 senators for the measure, including one Republican, Susan Collins of Maine. Sen. John Kennedy from Louisiana , who's been undecided in his support of the CRA bill, was being courted by Democrats as the tie-breaking vote to pass the measure in the Senate...

    "On Wednesday, Kennedy introduced a piece of legislation that would ban companies like AT&T and Comcast from slowing down or blocking access to websites or internet services. But the bill wouldn't prevent these broadband and wireless companies from offering paid prioritization, which many critics fear could lead to so-called internet 'fast lanes.'"
  • The Associated Press reports that on Monday, Washington became the first state to set up its own net-neutrality requirements. But they add that governors in five states -- Hawaii, New Jersey, New York, Montana and Vermont -- "have signed executive orders related to net-neutrality issues, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Montana's order, for instance, bars telecommunications companies from receiving state contracts if they interfere with internet traffic or favor higher-paying sites or apps."

57 comments

  1. We don't need net neutrality by DeplorableCodeMonkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We need these legislators to just stop putting bullshit laws like this into place. If Wilson, NC can build a viable fiber ISP wire up another tiny town, we don't need net neutrality. Wilson is not a rich town AFAIK. If they can do it, then so can most communities.

    By comparison, look at Facebook and YouTube. You'd have to be a window-licking moron to defend net neutrality at the ISP level and then claim "da magic free market's gonna take care of the big platform companies." To build a service that can compete with Google-subsidized YouTube (still losing like $2B/year!) is significantly more expensive. It would cost at least as much private cash as expanding FiOS to the entire Western half of North Carolina so that every nook and cranny of Appalachia has 500mbps.

    1. Re: We don't need net neutrality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oh, okay, thank you for that reasoned and detailed economic study

    2. Re:We don't need net neutrality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Honestly the Obama admin basically made up law out of whole cloth and called it good. Now everyone is whining that made up law was unmade up. THIS process is actually the right way to do it. Obama wanted a quick fix instead of doing the real work of negotiating something everyone liked.

    3. Re:We don't need net neutrality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Honestly the Obama admin basically made up law out of whole cloth and called it good. Now everyone is whining that made up law was unmade up. THIS process is actually the right way to do it. Obama wanted a quick fix instead of doing the real work of negotiating something everyone liked.

      Yeah ... bullshit. You partisan morons are, as always, arguing against your best interests and for the best interests of rent-seeking corporations who are undermining the free market, and paying politicians to keep it that way.

      Unfortunately, the rest of us have to deal with the fucktastic disaster that you create ...

    4. Re:We don't need net neutrality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a moron, suck Obama's dick from prison.

    5. Re:We don't need net neutrality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't see how changing the subject furthers your argument in any significant way.

    6. Re:We don't need net neutrality by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 2

      We need these legislators

      Actually we don't need them, since they are the problem and the reason that no sensible progress on this issue will be made. They've taken something that shouldn't be political, and polarized it into extremes that cannot be resolved. In fact, the politicians are not really interested in what is better for the people . . . they are only interested in how they cause use the issue in their political strategic game.

      The Republicans are against Net Neutrality, because the Democrats are for it. The Democrats are for Net Neutrality, because the Republicans are against it. The politicians simply vote along their party lines. No one knows why. It's like the Hatfield and McCoy feud . . . they don't stop and think about why they are fighting . . . they just like to fight.

      The Net Neutrality issue would find a better solution if politicians were not involved in it.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    7. Re:We don't need net neutrality by ArtemaOne · · Score: 1

      Partisan politics is definitely a major issue, I agree. And after enough people have forgotten about which side fought for what, it sometimes comes up again but the opposite way, and the parties ignore that they flip flopped, and just still support their side.

    8. Re:We don't need net neutrality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seem to be intentionally misunderstanding and underestimating the power of lobbyism in America by big corporations. We do need NN to keep such bullshit out, we don't need to be playing bandaid wars legislatively or judicially to "fix" the problems that lobbyist telcos create by being able to write their own bullshit laws verbatim and get a few beholden Republican sellouts to get behind it for $. NN needs to be in place preemptively. Now there are different ways to go about it, but your suggestion that it's not necessary is just a traitor's handjob.

    9. Re:We don't need net neutrality by dryeo · · Score: 2

      It's always political. If allowed, ISP's can easily swing an election. Make the other parties web sites unreachable, make certain neighbourhoods unable to reach the registration website are 2 simple means. Works best with a minimal number of ISP's and if those ISP's goals are in sync, and they usually are as they all want to maximize profits while doing the least work possible.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    10. Re:We don't need net neutrality by Maritz · · Score: 1

      Get rid of your monopolies, and then you actually, really don't need NN. We don't need it in Europe because we have a choice of broadband providers. But hey, enjoying paying twice for netflix because you have a corrupt FCC. lol.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    11. Re:We don't need net neutrality by Maritz · · Score: 1

      But, but, Obama. Obama Obama. He did the bad stuff. Anything that is different is good stuff. Right? He did NN so this is good because it's not NN. Yay!!!

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
  2. We need both by rsilvergun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Muni broadband is still going to get stuck running over large parts of infrastructure owned by Comcast, AT&T and Cox.

    What we really need is a shift in American politics where nobody get elected unless they refuse all corporate and PAC money. Show up to your primaries and vote for candidates who refuse corp & PAC money. If you don't have one and you've got time run. Politicians can't (or won't) serve two Masters.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:We need both by JackieBrown · · Score: 2

      Same with union money, right? No more of that either?

      https://www.huffingtonpost.com...

    2. Re:We need both by dryeo · · Score: 1

      That's how it is in Canada. Only flesh and blood humans allowed to donate and those donations limited to about $1100 (it's tied to inflation).

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    3. Re:We need both by Maritz · · Score: 1

      That's how it is in Canada. Only flesh and blood humans allowed to donate and those donations limited to about $1100 (it's tied to inflation).

      Far too late for the US. The foxes run the hen house and you'll not see any changes to how this bribery works now.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
  3. Good. We need more government control... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    of the Internet.

  4. Kennedy's bill ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... is designed to put the repeal of Net Neutrality into law, where it can't be overturned by the courts in the many lawsuits against the FCC. Ironically, the bill that Kennedy proposed is pretending to be "for" Net Neutrality, when it was written by the telcos/telco-lobbyists and then submitted in the House by Masha Blackburn and (not coincidentally) an identically worded bill submitted in the Senate by Kennedy. See: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20180308/08025839389/terrified-losing-court-isps-with-senator-john-kennedys-help-push-hard-fake-net-neutrality-law.shtml

    1. Re:Kennedy's bill ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >techdirt
      Rich coming from a guy that was paid to do "studies" for prominent pro-net neutrality organization. IOW a proNN shill is complaining about proposed legislation lobbied for by antiNN shills.

    2. Re:Kennedy's bill ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Laws can and often do get overturned in courts.

      numbnuts

    3. Re:Kennedy's bill ... by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Appears to ban QoS...breaking the net.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  5. Only LUDDITES want Net Neutrality. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Modern app appers want app apptrality, which lets appers app apps while apping other apps!

    Apps!

  6. I'm sure Congress is happy by bobstreo · · Score: 0

    to have something to distract attention from all the people screaming for gun control.

      All that sweet, sweet NRA lobby money has nothing to do with it.

    1. Re:I'm sure Congress is happy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think Congress couldn't care less about net neutrality, gun control, tariffs or any other subject. They do care about soundbites though.

      Seems the entertainment media has dropped gun control too. Guess it didn't go down well with their viewers or they got distracted again by Trump shapeshifting.

      Prediction: there will be no net neutrality legislation, no gun control legislation, no deal with the Norks, and continuing chaos in DC until 2021.

    2. Re:I'm sure Congress is happy by DCFusor · · Score: 1

      All those voters might matter more.. NRA has lots of members but a lot less money than any cableco (or FB or GOOG or.....). And unlike the noisy shouters, the members DO vote.

      --
      Why guess when you can know? Measure!
    3. Re:I'm sure Congress is happy by Brett+Buck · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Not that many people are "screaming for gun control". Lot of people who are "able to get on TV with histrionic appeals" are "screaming for gun control" and the politically-driven media lap it up.

            You can get all the gun control you want - you just have to alter the constitution. There's perfectly well-described process for that, but you know for certain that it will fail, so you are trying to do it with an administrative end run, like so many other illegal things you want done.

    4. Re:I'm sure Congress is happy by JBMcB · · Score: 2

      All that sweet, sweet NRA lobby money has nothing to do with it.

      Ever notice how nobody actually says how much money the NRA spends on campaigns? That's because, in relative terms, it's almost nothing.

      https://www.opensecrets.org/or...

      Median payout to individual campaigns? $1,000. Average cost of a congressional campaign? $10,000,000.

      Whoo boy, with the NRA funding a whopping 0.1% of your campaign, you had better toe the line!

      --
      My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
    5. Re:I'm sure Congress is happy by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      You can get all the gun control you want - you just have to alter the constitution. There's perfectly well-described process for that, but you know for certain that it will fail, so you are trying to do it with an administrative end run, like so many other illegal things you want done.

      It makes me wonder about what their actual agenda might be.

      By creating methods of 'end-running' the 2nd Amendment, they've also created methods for 'end-running' all the rest. You cannot weaken one Amendment without also weakening all the rest. I refuse to believe that the overwhelming majority of those attempting to create an 'end-run' around the 2ndA do not understand this. If they valued the other amendments, would they not refrain from attempting to weaken just the one amendment knowing it will weaken the rest equally?

      Either they are so totally ignorant and clueless that they don't understand they weaken all the amendments, or they know full well and using controversy over guns to start the Rights-weakening with the 2ndA since unthinking anger is easy to incite and inflame over guns. Once precedents are set for 'end-running' one Amendment, they can then be used to weaken or nullify others.

      If enough people agree then the 2ndA can be amended or abolished with another amendment like Prohibition was.

      I don't care if somebody opposes the 2ndA, just go about opposing it above-board the right way. If not enough people agree, then, sorry. You don't get to overrule or 'end-run' the majority decision because you think they're 'stupid-heads' because they don't agree with your views, have a funny accent, live in 'those places', practice weird social customs, and have religious beliefs. The means do not justify the ends. Not even if you think you're really, really, *really* right and believe you're the smartest one in the room.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    6. Re:I'm sure Congress is happy by dryeo · · Score: 1

      They can get the vote out. Say some politician is going to take their guns and out come the members. Say some politician is going to allow the wrong people to be armed, out come the members.
      Many elections are decided on who gets their voters out and guns seem to do it.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    7. Re:I'm sure Congress is happy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Not that many people are "screaming for gun control". Lot of people who are "able to get on TV with histrionic appeals" are "screaming for gun control" and the politically-driven media lap it up.

      The majority actually:

      Overall, 52% of Americans say gun laws should be stricter than they are today, while nearly as many say they are about right (30%) or should be less strict than they are today (18%). [...] Substantial majorities also favor creating a federal government database to track all gun sales (71%), banning assault-style weapons (68%), and banning high-capacity magazines that hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition (65%).

      * http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/06/22/views-on-gun-policy/

      You can get all the gun control you want - you just have to alter the constitution. There's perfectly well-described process for that, but you know for certain that it will fail, so you are trying to do it with an administrative end run, like so many other illegal things you want done.

      The idea that the Second Amendment gives people an individual right is actually a (relatively) recent idea, only first showing up in the literature in 1960:

      * http://scholarship.kentlaw.iit.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3286&context=cklawreview (PDF)
      * https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/12/16418524/us-gun-policy-nra

      For the 150+ years before that, it was considered a "group right" for people who belonged to a state militia, which can be considered analogous to (but not exactly like) today's National Guard. The idea of an individual right was a fundamentalist / extremist view that only really started being pushed in the 1970s by the NRA, which went from being an organization for hunters to its present incarnation. The USSC only ruled so in 2008, and before that it ruled three times for the group right; see also Warren Burger's 1991 interview.

      Read up on your Madison (his letters are searchable online): "bearing arms" was used only in the context of the military, and not civilians.

      The book "The Second Amendment: A Biography" goes over a lot of this, but the above PDF gives a good overview of the legal literature.

    8. Re:I'm sure Congress is happy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The NRA is two separate organizations. One is the "traditional" NRA, which doesn't have a huge budget (e.g. they only pay Wayne Robert LaPierre, Jr. a trifling $5 million a year). The other organization is shielded (by the Citizens United decision) from reporting the donors and spending, but we know that they spent at least $420 million on the 2016 election.

    9. Re:I'm sure Congress is happy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The founders created those 'end running' processes for good reason.

      It is why alcohol is constitutional again. Did repealing the prohibition amendment weaken anything you fucking moron?

      Altering the second will not change the other still valid amendments.

      numbnuts

    10. Re:I'm sure Congress is happy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The founders created those 'end running' processes for good reason.

      It is why alcohol is constitutional again. Did repealing the prohibition amendment weaken anything you fucking moron?

      Altering the second will not change the other still valid amendments.

      numbnuts

      And you're a knee-jerk reactionary asshole who has either abso-fucking-lutely ZERO reading comprehension or a near-terminal case of ADD.

      End-running is going -around- those Constitutional amendment procedures set forth in the document to, in practice, alter, infringe upon, and/or nullify Amendments without Constitutional due process. Once precedents and procedure are set and put in place by this unconstitutional end-running of one Amendment, others can be as well using the same unconstitutional methods That's why it must be stopped at all costs.

      All that salt wasted on somebody who just got done ranting on about being for the very fucking things (adhering to Constitutional due process) you just advocated for!

      Moron!

    11. Re:I'm sure Congress is happy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seem to have slept through the weakening of the 4th amendment that's been going on for the last 30 years.

  7. Foolish by thadtheman · · Score: 1

    OK state efforts may be useful, but Congress and the courts? Forget about it.

    At the federal level, just plain stupid.

    What happens if Congress or the courts overturn the FCC? Let's say Comcast violates net neutrality. What happens then? How do you handle it. Answer: file a complaint with the FCC. Which then sits on it.

    The way to federal enforce net neutrality is create an agreeable FCC. The chances of that are gone for the foreseeable future. They were gone when the ISPs pushed the idea that net neutrality was an attempt to regulate the internet [1] and radical lefties jumped on the chance to paint it that way.

    [1]It's not. It's a change in regulations. The internet was already one of the most heavy regulated industries.

  8. I'm sure this is important and all... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But we've been at war in the Middle East for 17 years running.

    1. Re:I'm sure this is important and all... by ArtemaOne · · Score: 1

      I'm in the middle east now, still want a better (real) version of Net Neutrality in law.

  9. States Rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Funny how "states rights" are compartmentalized: abortion and medicaid in one compartment, net neutrality in another.

  10. Net Neutrality long dead . . . by sgt_doom · · Score: 1

    I stopped commenting on Canadian web sites long ago as no matter how innocuous said comments were, they were ALWAYS deleted, censored, etc.

    That's pretty much the case throughout North America today. Recently, on a local NPR/fake news show, Week in Review (Seattle, WA, USA), the douchey interviewer asked a "reporter" from The Stranger (whose readership plummeted after it began an extraordinary campaign of censoring its commenters and barring and banning many outright) about "free speech" ????

    Somehow, asking any censored site about "free speech," whether it's The Stranger in Seattle, or Cory Doctorow's boingboing.net, is too comical for words!

    1. Re:Net Neutrality long dead . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Er, you haven't a bloody clue what network neutrality is do you? Neutrality does not mean that the owner of the website cannot censor the hell out of your comments, it is a level up from that meaning you can reach the website at all.

      I cannot believe at this point people still cannot figure out what network neutrality is and conflate neutrality of data on the network with internal operations of data nodes on the network itself.

      To give you an idea, you can do whatever the hell you want to in your car, it is yours, or if you are riding in someone else's car it is their car and you listen to whatever the hell the driver wants to listen to. However the road itself will lead from point a to point b. Without neutrality it is like they can control your vehicle and not allow people to even get in, or close roads as they please or re-route them. Starting to get the idea? Good. Now stop for the love of god confusing website internals with the network itself.

    2. Re:Net Neutrality long dead . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Oh please. What is happening now on reddit and Facebook with armies of Russian trolls proves we need more government control of the Internet.

      And as to The Stranger, it has been severely harmed by all of the conservatives here in Seattle. They hate it because it tells the truth. It even won a Pulitzer Prize, and in the past has published addresses of people with Republican political signs in their yards. They fight the good fight.

  11. Net Neutrality for Common Carriers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Net Neutrality is about restricting endpoint discrimination by incumbent monopoly ISPs. Your Ars Technica link did not mention net neutrality once! You might as well have linked to a recipe for macaroni and cheese.

    What we don't need is restricted access to utility poles. If the ISPs want to discriminate against endpoints, they need to lose their common carrier status. That way competitors can put wires on the poles too. We call this capitalism.

    Let the ISPs compete. Let the market decide. Give the States rights to make their own decisions. Somehow Republicans have forgotten everything that they stand for in this fight.

  12. toothless by dhammabum · · Score: 1

    OK, so governors sign orders barring interference in network traffic. So what happens if the carriers call their bluff and do it anyway?

    --
    I am not a robot. I am a unicorn.
    1. Re:toothless by Memnos · · Score: 2

      It would perhaps depend on the state barred interference and how many of them did so. California, for example, is about a $2.7 trillion GDP state with about $120 billion in revenue that the government spends on stuff each year. Part of that is their cable bill, so to speak, and it's a big number. California, and any other state, can say "we'll spend our money with the companies that interfere less according to our laws, and not use the ones who interfere more." Again, it can be a big chunk of change, and it's revenue an ISP gives up at its peril.

      And in California, again as an example, the carriers can't really can't scoff at such a law or rule for long, and certainly, all the lobbying they did wouldn't influence the current California Governor or really the legislature of the state much at all. Probably not successive ones either. In other states, YMMV, but any 2-3 other reasonably large states acting in concert could exert similar pressures if they so chose, and likewise, any 8-10 other moderately sized ones could as well. And if it worked in California, they'd be likely to.

      Also, remember, the ISPs would be in violation of the law, for whatever that's still worth these days.

      --
      I don't trust atoms -- they make up stuff.
    2. Re:toothless by ArtemaOne · · Score: 2

      Well that's not a mystery, as it clearly says the government would not do any business with them. Cut off their cash cow of taxpayer money.

  13. You are clueless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    He commented on the rules for NN Obama put into place, not the rules you think should be put into place. They are two different things and I suspect you don't realize that is the case.

    Obama's NN involved the FEC (Federal Election Commission). I didn't mistype. They would be responsible for censoring, yes censoring, any web content that wasn't following FEC rules for campaign donations and disclosures. If they decided Drudge Report (their intended target) supported one candidate over another and he didn't record the "donation" of his website to the FEC then they would punish him with fines/jailtime and pull his website down for FEC violations.

    This is the rules Obama put into place. I'm sure you still agree with them, but they are not what you describe, not even close.

    So congratulations for angrily arguing an invalid point and showing your ignorance. Please continue on spewing DNC talking points that you have no clue what you are talking about because the DNC needs as many idiots as possible helping them because the informed know they are against the middle class law abiding citizens.

    1. Re:You are clueless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the hell are you talking about? You can read the FCC's Feburary 26, 2015 net neutrality order here.

    2. Re:You are clueless by ArtemaOne · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that's not related to it at all.

  14. Government doesn't want neutrality by WoodstockJeff · · Score: 1

    True net neutrality means not being able to censor web content - it would be illegal to restrict the transmission of "bad/fake information".

    And, attempting to stop a denial of service attack would require "non-neutral" traffic management.

    1. Re:Government doesn't want neutrality by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Usually there are exceptions for illegal traffic, much like the highways being neutral doesn't mean you can block the highway and that there are rules about vehicles needing to meet basic requirements.
      The lack of net neutrality is more like the highway being owned by Amazon and blocking all competitors from even using it or forcing them all into one lane out of the six while Amazon gets 3 lanes to itself.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  15. NO THEY ARE NOT. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Or they would be working to making neutrality an ACTUAL LAW.

    THEY DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT NET NEUTRALITY.
    What they want is being able to put the fcc 'standards and practices' (censorship) to the internet.

    Thats why they keep going the fcc route instead of making neutrality an actual law. They don't give a shit about that....

    But lord being able to say 'that website is a hate crime!' and have it shut down.
    Thats a democrats wet dream to combat all those evil nazi frogs...

    1. Re:NO THEY ARE NOT. by ArtemaOne · · Score: 1

      Surprisingly accurate, if not colorful way to put it.

    2. Re:NO THEY ARE NOT. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Finally someone who has it right and put it plainly. It's about taking down any speech they don't agree with. Like everything conservative.

    3. Re:NO THEY ARE NOT. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Republicans haven't held conservative viewpoints in quite a while.

  16. Re:Good. We need more government control... by dryeo · · Score: 1

    of the Internet.

    Vs the internet providers controlling the government?

    --
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism