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Apple Must Pay Patent Troll More Than $500 Million In iMessage Case (bloomberg.com)
A federal court in Texas today has ordered Apple to pay $502.6 million to a patent troll called VirnetX, the latest twist in a dispute now in its eighth year. "VirnetX claimed that Apple's FaceTime, VPN on Demand and iMessage features infringe four patents related to secure communications, claims that Apple denied," reports Bloomberg. From the report: The dispute has bounced between the district court, patent office and Federal Circuit since 2010. There have been multiple trials, most recently one involving earlier versions of the Apple devices. A jury in that case awarded $302 million that a judge later increased to $439.7 million. Kendall Larsen, CEO of VirnetX, said the damages, which were based on sales of more than 400 million Apple devices, were "fair." "The evidence was clear," Larsen said after the verdict was announced. "Tell the truth and you don't have to worry about anything." For VirnetX, the jury verdict in its favor could be a short-lived victory. The Patent Trial and Appeal Board has said the patents are invalid, in cases that are currently before the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit in Washington. The Federal Circuit, which handles all patent appeals, declined to put this trial on hold, saying it was so far along that a verdict would come before a final validity decision.
Not much more to it really.
Never happened. True story.
They claim to have products, do they really qualify as a patent troll? I thought patent trolls just bought up crappy patents and try to collect on people who actually created products that are "close enough" to fool that corrupt judge down in TX. Still lame no matter what.
Well, the Eastern District of Texas at least.
Why does the Patent Trial and Appeal Board decision not create immediate grounds for dismissal? Oh, right, East Texas.
Look, you're going to be a lot better off if you stick to smoking real cannabis.
Lay off the bath salts.
Dear Apple,
I offer to make everyone involved in the action against you "go away", at a significant discount vs $500M. I can assure you that it will all appear to be random happenstance.
I don't trust atoms -- they make up stuff.
This is the kind of capitalism that we would get if the hardcore right-wingers and libertarians had their way. Pure fascism. A world ruled by absolute psychopaths, corporate monopolies, and vulture capitalist parasites.
But of course, these idiots will tell you that this is all the fault of the evil guberment and their evil patent law, or some other nonsense. Listening to them you would think that without governement, the world would be a paradise. Guess what asshole: Without governement, the world would be anarchy, it would be a darwinist hellhole. Oh, it would be in equilibrium, just like in nature. But nature is nothing but pain, suffering, cruelty and bloodshed. Escaping this hell on earth is the very reason humans created civilization. And civilization implies **gasp** governement !!!
No, the reason patent trolls exist is not because of a broken patent law, or governement, or all that crap. They exist because we haven't shot them in the head yet.
It's a strange quirk in the process that even though the patents have been declared invalid the ruling stands, at least until the validity of the patent has been adjudicated fully.
It's the legal system doing out-of-order speculative branch execution for the court/legal system - with promises.
on a global planetary clean up effort. Since the $ resulted in environmental pollution we cant afford.
[($)]
You're a nutter. VirnetX is a holding corporation. They don't have a real product - their product page (https://www.virnetx.com/products/) only talks about the patents they hold.
From the page you 'linked' (learn how to do an href):
Our Gabriel Collaboration Suite is an integrated set of real-time communication and collaboration applications built on top of the Gabriel Security Platform.
Sounds like they have a software product.
Are you implying that software companies don't have 'real products.' Them's fighting words for some of the people around here....
Sounds like they have a software product.
Do they really, though? Go read the product page for the "Gabriel" software. It's all fluff, and reads like one of those pages you might accidentally stumble upon when you use google and the results turn out to be just spam pages repeating the same key-phrase ad nauseum.
How many customers do they have? Does the software actually make use of the patents in questions? When did they begin development of this product?
As far as I can tell their "product" didn't come into existence until 2014, whereas they've been suing apple since 2010.
They certainly seem to fit definition of a patent troll. The fact that they eventually pumped out some software is mere window-dressing; most likely it's intended to lend them credibility rather than actually attract customers.
That's a good question. There are arguments both ways.
VirnetX WAS a research and development company that employed a lot of scientists and did good work. They z created* technology, they didn't mass produce and market it. Instead they did the research and licensed their patents to telecommunications companies and others.
Then somewhere along the line they realised they could *buy" parents cheaper than they could do the original research. They started licensing out patents that they bought, serving as a match-maker between researchers and companies that needed the technology. So far so good, in my opinion. We can see they got into the patent business, though.
Patent trolls frequently use "submarine patents", surprising companies *after* they have developed a product. That's not the case here. Apple engineers knew they were violating patents as they developed Apple's products. I don't know if Apple discussed license terms with VirnetX.
On the other hand, it seems these patents may not be valid after all. Patent trolls do frequently use questionable patents.
Well if VirnetX holds the patent maybe apple should have *gasp* paid to use it instead of stealing it.
It's got less to do with patents that with people. It's a people problem, and people respond better to personal level interactions. Apple erred by approaching it as a legal / patent / courts problem. They should have gone with an experienced, direct, person-to-person negotiator -- what you might call the hands-on, touchy-feeley approach, but without the weird Larry Nassar implications of that phrase.
Then why doesn't Apple hit them with a countersuit? With all of Apple's patents, surely there are at least a couple that anyone using a computer is possibly violating?
Apple is the world's most profitable abuser of the patent system. Any area they claim to research/develop on is in severe jeopardy for humanity.
Tyler is a parasite problem. The middle of nowhere profiting off the Federal Courthouse for about 170 years.
Sounds like they have a software product.
Do they really, though?
It seems so, you can download it here: https://www.myvirnetx.com/inde...'
It would be a damn shame if they were using some open source under a viral license other than the declared libav, libswscale and libswresample, or had failed to fully comply with the dependencies for those and someone sued them over it though, wouldn't it...
I can't tell if you're being incredibly sarcastic, drunk and high at the same time, or experiencing a serious mental issue.
If you're being sarcastic, the joke has gone so far back around the whole circle that it's just coming off as ignorant. If it's anything else other than you trying to make a funny and just whiffing so hard it looks like you had a stroke, please seek some professional help. You're seriously off the deep end here.
"Well kids, you tried your best, and you failed. The lesson is, never try." -Homer Simpson
Exactly. Im sure somewhere VirnetX has used slide to unlock or rounded corners. Maybe their logo kinda looks like an apple and they can get them for that.
I hadn't known that the different tribes of trolls cooperate!
Why even try to anything if all you do is spend the rest of you life in court? Fuck the system.
So - secure mail - existed since at least 1995 with the advent of PGP. Secure messaging/group messaging has existed since at least the introduction of OTR, which was way pre 2004 (can't be bothered to look it up) Secure file sharing and screen sharing both date even further back with ssh tunneling capabilities. And ssh also allows you to do secure backups via rsync and, actually, provides the secure gateway functionality. So if everything existed prior to Gabriel software and its associated patents then those patents are void due to prior art. If the patents predate ssh, the patents would have expired a long time ago. In fact, when I read some of the Virnetx patents years ago my thoughts were "These all have prior art and are invalid". I'm not sure why the patents haven't been thrown out as invalid other than the "District Court of East Texas". In any case, Virnetx patents are done, IIRC, because they were all set to expire within the last couple of years.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
I kicked the bailiff in the nuts when I heard how the "judge" ruled.
It's obvious that the US Patent system is completely fucked. Why don't companies just start refusing to sell things in the US?
should read:
Reading the article, Apple isn't paying anything until the final appellate court's adjudication, which very likely will invalidate the patents in question.
IANAL
Lodragan Draoidh
The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
They do. All safely behind the comforting walled garden. Basking in the warm glow of the reality distortion field.
Whiffing in that sentence would mean swinging and missing, something that makes no sense in relation to a stroke.
If you were trying to use the meaning of whiff that involves the sense of smell, you'll need to create some sort of context for it. Trying to be funny does not in any way invoke smelling something, but failure at it is often described as a miss.
Maybe it is just too complicated a word? Try with less wordsmithing next time; stick to words you know.
make it illegal to try patent cases in Texas.
Their "software" is downloadable from a site, which has a "support forum" that has ZERO posts excluding admins and moderators.
At best they have some software written to obfuscate their trollishness.
Um, what? It's obvious that the GP meant "whiffing" as in "swing and a miss!"
And that the drunk-high person they replied to whiffed so hard that they hurt themself.
Maybe try switching to a website that targets your own puny reading level?
The Apple PR machine is really in full swing.
The patent was found clear and genuine in every single way.
The only bad thing is that Apple tried to get away with it.
Errm, nope. The Texas court said Apple violated the patents, assuming (but not deciding) wether the patents were valid. The Patent Trial and Appeal Board has said the patents are invalid, in cases that are currently before the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit in Washington. If those cases are confirmed, this Texas verdict becomes meaningless, because you can't violate invalid patents.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.