Slashdot Mirror


iPhones Will Reportedly Get the Power To Unlock Doors Using NFC (engadget.com)

The iPhone's NFC chip will soon have the ability open your house's and car's doors, as well as pay for your fare, reports The Information. From a report: The tech giant is reportedly gearing up to introduce a huge update for its devices' near-field communication chip, which is (at the moment) mostly used to make purchases via Apple Pay. Its employees already have access to the new features, the publication says, and have apparently been using their iPhones to access offices and buildings at Apple's HQ in Cupertino. While you can use iPhones to open a lot of smart locks via Bluetooth, NFC is considered the more secure option. According to the publication's sources, Apple has been working with HID Global, the company that made its security systems, to give iPhones the capability to gain access to buildings and offices since 2014. The company has reportedly been talking to transit card maker Cubic for years, as well.

112 comments

  1. Another wonderful Apple innovation by spiritplumber · · Score: 3, Informative

    my Android phone from 2014 has that.

    --
    Liberty - Security - Laziness - Pick any two.
    1. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by 110010001000 · · Score: 0

      But this one uses AI and Deep Learning Neural Networks.

    2. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But this one uses AI and Deep Learning Neural Networks.

      You left out rounded corners.

      And courage.

      Lots of courage.

    3. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by Pascal+Sartoretti · · Score: 1

      my Android phone from 2014 has that.

      And in how many hotels could you use it yet ?

    4. Re: Another wonderful Apple innovation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Moto g in 2010 did also

    5. Re: Another wonderful Apple innovation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Thatâ(TM)s great." WTF is this shit? I'm on a.....desktop with like, you know, lots of cores and current GPU, and all that gay stuff stupid people brag about, so it can't be on my end.

    6. Re: Another wonderful Apple innovation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No blockchain, so it's useless.

      But this one uses AI and Deep Learning Neural Networks.

    7. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by swillden · · Score: 2

      my Android phone from 2014 has that.

      And in how many hotels could you use it yet ?

      Any that have NFC-capable door locks. I doubt there are many (if any) of those, though, because until this update only Android phones could operate them. Hotels have used Bluetooth for their digital key systems, because it would work with all mobile devices. Not that iPhones are catching up, maybe we'll see hotels switching to NFC.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    8. Re: Another wonderful Apple innovation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You just made my evening with that reply, thanks

      Now get off my goddamn GPU!

    9. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Your Android phone has also been exposed to malware since at least then. Not a good idea to have malware that can open doors.

    10. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      my Android phone from 2014 has that.

      And in how many hotels could you use it yet ?

      Any that have NFC-capable door locks. I doubt there are many (if any) of those, though, because until this update only Android phones could operate them. Hotels have used Bluetooth for their digital key systems, because it would work with all mobile devices. Not that iPhones are catching up, maybe we'll see hotels switching to NFC.

      But I thought that Android was the dominant platform in mobile. Why would the Hotels wait until iPhones got this capability?

      Unless...

      Perhaps Android isn't so all-pervasive as the fandroids would have us believe...

    11. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Because most businesses want to provide a consistent customer experience. That is, one that works for 100% of customers, not merely 85%. Especially when some monetary investment is required on their part.

      NFC payments were actually a thing before Apple Pay. Basically, you only saw them at places that upgraded their card terminals after they became a thing, because it came as part of the terminal. Of course, back then, nobody was using NFC payments. Then again, now that we have Apple Pay and businesses have spent the money to upgrade their terminals (because now everyone can do it), still nobody uses it.

      So, I think you were trying to say that things suddenly become popular just because Apple implements them? Was that your point? Because it hasn't quite worked out for... well... a lot of things. NFC payments: NOPE. Screen notches: despite a handful of experiments, NOPE, those models don't sell. No headphone jack: despite a handful of experiments, NOPE, those models don't sell. No SD card: debatable, but most people I know either own an iPhone or an Android with SD support.

      And, since most people own Android phones, it's hard to say these things that don't do well in the Android ecosystem are "popular" by any legitimate definition of the word.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    12. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Yes, a rooted Android phone is susceptible to malware from 3rd-party sources, just like a jailbroken iPhone. As far as factory-configured devices, if you think the Apple store has had any less malware than the Play store, though, you're sadly mistaken.

      Much of it has made the front page here, actually.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    13. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Brilliant, lets all applaud apple for holding the rest of the tech world back by years. MORON!

    14. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Because most businesses want to provide a consistent customer experience. That is, one that works for 100% of customers, not merely 85%. Especially when some monetary investment is required on their part.

      NFC payments were actually a thing before Apple Pay. Basically, you only saw them at places that upgraded their card terminals after they became a thing, because it came as part of the terminal. Of course, back then, nobody was using NFC payments. Then again, now that we have Apple Pay and businesses have spent the money to upgrade their terminals (because now everyone can do it), still nobody uses it.

      So, I think you were trying to say that things suddenly become popular just because Apple implements them? Was that your point? Because it hasn't quite worked out for... well... a lot of things. NFC payments: NOPE. Screen notches: despite a handful of experiments, NOPE, those models don't sell. No headphone jack: despite a handful of experiments, NOPE, those models don't sell. No SD card: debatable, but most people I know either own an iPhone or an Android with SD support.

      And, since most people own Android phones, it's hard to say these things that don't do well in the Android ecosystem are "popular" by any legitimate definition of the word.

      How about this?

      Although 85% of the general population may have some plastic shitbox version of an Android phone, I would bet that 85% of the population that stays at hotels that are well-heeled enough to install NFC-enabled locks on every room use iPhones.

    15. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Nope. People just wait for stupid decision to be announced by Tim Cook first.

      Just because you can, doesn't mean you should... but evidently Apple will.

    16. Re: Another wonderful Apple innovation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Goddamn iSheeps and their delusions

    17. Re: Another wonderful Apple innovation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But as we all know.... use of NFC in this manner will not be invented before Apple unblocks that particular use of NFC in their glass shit boxes!

    18. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      NFC enabled locks don't really cost much more than your standard programmable keycard lock, so I'm not sure that argument rests on very solid ground. Over time, the NFC and Bluetooth locks end up cheaper as the require less hands-on maintenance and everything short of hardware failure can be handled from the front desk. Add to that, keycards are then only needed for guests who don't have phones, so fewer keycards need be purchased (and replaced) over time.

      It's actually getting to the point where the more well-heeled hotels are the only ones who can not to implement these locks.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    19. Re: Another wonderful Apple innovation by omnichad · · Score: 1

      It's how great their iPhone is with its unicode-requiring "smart" quotes.

    20. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      With purely NFC-based locks many hotels will be able to skip the registration entirely. You just get the room number and go there directly.

    21. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      And in how many hotels could you use it yet ?

      Hotels? idon't know but it's not an Apple innovation. My local hackspace has had NFC based door opening for ages. Works with phone NFC.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    22. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      NFC enabled locks don't really cost much more than your standard programmable keycard lock, so I'm not sure that argument rests on very solid ground. Over time, the NFC and Bluetooth locks end up cheaper as the require less hands-on maintenance and everything short of hardware failure can be handled from the front desk. Add to that, keycards are then only needed for guests who don't have phones, so fewer keycards need be purchased (and replaced) over time.

      It's actually getting to the point where the more well-heeled hotels are the only ones who can not to implement these locks.

      They may not cost much more than keycard locks; but they sure as shit cost more than the tumbler-based locks that the Motels (not Hotels) that the people who can only afford plastic shitbox Android phones (the phones that make up the VAST majority of Android units sold) still use.

      So, my argument stands.

    23. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      With purely NFC-based locks many hotels will be able to skip the registration entirely. You just get the room number and go there directly.

      Maybe so; but how is that germane to this discussion?

    24. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      You know, the last shitbox motel I stayed in, $49/night 9 years ago, was using keycards. What motels are using keys anymore? I don't think the handful of them really count for much.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    25. Re: Another wonderful Apple innovation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      “Smart quotes” work fine on this iPhone.

    26. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My BlackBerry from 2009 has that.

    27. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That’s nothing. I’ve been able to control your Android phone since 2014.

    28. Re: Another wonderful Apple innovation by Fly+Swatter · · Score: 1

      Thatâ(TM)s great.

      I notice it seems to be an apple thing to always use unicode when it isn't needed and isn't even supported.

    29. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by dissy · · Score: 1

      And in how many hotels could you use it yet ?

      Any that have NFC-capable door locks. I doubt there are many (if any) of those, though, because until this update only Android phones could operate them. Hotels have used Bluetooth for their digital key systems, because it would work with all mobile devices. Not that iPhones are catching up, maybe we'll see hotels switching to NFC.

      Personally I was hoping for protocol details, as the question you replied to depends fully on that.

      Saying "NFC" is a lot like just saying "barcode" or "magstripe"
      There are proverbially hundreds of data encoding standards within each of those, which actually even Android has limitations on regarding its NFC chip too.

      For example I use "NTAG" NFC at home, and Android supports the NTAG 215 spec but not* 216 I use.
      There's also an NTAG 213 spec but I don't use that or know if Android supports it. Being older I'd assume so but never checked.
      *(That's not to say there aren't options, just none "baked in" and easily accessible to apps, or even most users)

      As NTAG was made by NXP and not HID, I'm not much expecting Apple to get that one either.
      HID is by far the largest provider of RFID and NFC gear.

      The HID 26-bit standard is probably the most widely used, as HID Global has essentially allowed its use by anyone for most anything. It's not quite the "open source" of the NFC world, but might be better described as "open licensed freeware".

      So while Android's NFC supports more NFC protocols to userland than Apple, and for much longer now, one must in general still be careful throwing out the "all" word.
      Even specifically regarding hotels, some got jiped on early proprietary systems that specifically go out of their way to create vendor lock-in, and those poor ignorant souls will very likely not be compatible still.

    30. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My BlackBerry from 2009 has that.

      My skeleton keys from 1862 has that

    31. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Yes, a rooted Android phone is susceptible to malware from 3rd-party sources, just like a jailbroken iPhone. As far as factory-configured devices, if you think the Apple store has had any less malware than the Play store, though, you're sadly mistaken.

      https://yro.slashdot.org/story...

      Care to back up your claim?

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    32. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by swillden · · Score: 1

      Note that everything you talk about is only the RFID part of NFC. NFC actually includes two entire categories of communication technologies, operating on two different frequencies. The more interesting (IMO) part of NFC is the embodiment of the contactless smart card technologies, which enable two-way conversations between a pair of intelligent endpoints, not merely reading and writing of different data formats.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    33. Re: Another wonderful Apple innovation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just stayed in the SW hotel in San Fran for nearly $200/night and was very surprised to be handed an old fashion key. So much so I took a picture...

    34. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Apparently, you're able to search Slashdot quite effectively yourself. Why do you need me to do it? It's no skin off my back if you wish to keep your head buried in the sand. Personally, I use an Android phone and an iPad, so I'm invested in both ecosystems; I just hold no illusions of one beign better, or safer, than the other.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    35. Re: Another wonderful Apple innovation by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      They're either using $200+ cylinders with restricted keys (e.g. you can't just go to Home Depot and get them copied) or they're spending a lot on rekeying. In either case, they'd be better off with even a mid-90's punched keycard system.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    36. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by dissy · · Score: 1

      Note that everything you talk about is only the RFID part of NFC. NFC actually includes two entire categories of communication technologies, operating on two different frequencies. The more interesting (IMO) part of NFC is the embodiment of the contactless smart card technologies, which enable two-way conversations between a pair of intelligent endpoints, not merely reading and writing of different data formats.

      I simplified things yes, although without mentioning it I did (unintentionally) mention both.

      HID 26-bit tends to be a one-way "read-only" option like in RFID.
      NTAG is a two way option able to store data on the card/tag, which is actually the main reason I use it over HID.
      The smartcard options are of course two-way but generally with even more features (challenge response being the biggie)

      Clearly doorway entry doesn't have too much use for the writable aspect, but other uses plus the whole learning aspect lead me down that route, and after having 200+ tags on hand it just made since to use them on the doors too.

      Even the simple flash memory aspect of NTAG is interesting in some of the uses I've seen.
      NTAG 216 has 888 bytes of flash you can use, and all of the NTAG 2xx's lay these out in 8 byte "chunks"
      Each chunk has its own flash write circuit in the silicon, aka a "security bit", basically a fuse you can blow after which that 8-byte chunk is no longer writable.
      You can also query this fuses state. or even go the long route by trying to write to it and checking if the data changed, before treating the tag as valid.

      Of course the smart card features available to NFC are as you say very interesting.
      Being able to send a challenge to be used with a private key, without any access to the private key, has been a problem since the start of asymmetric ciphers, and even a decade+ ago was only solved by specialized (and expensive!) HSM devices.

      Hell, the NXP SmartMX brand tags not only have factory programed smart card functions but on-board random number generators, which are only a bit over $5 usd each in small batches.
      Not the greatest pricing in NFC, but pretty good in my book for just messing around with at home.

      It's probably worth noting that quite a few different frequencies are used at the radio level.

      At work we use 13.56 mhz RFID tags for some internal inventory counting, with receiver units in the ceiling that can poll almost 200 tags per second in one broadcast.
      NTAG uses this same frequency.

      But HID 26-bit tends to be in the lower 125 khz frequency. There are others in the UHF range.

      I guess it's more like a layer-1 vs layer-4 OSI difference there. Communications vs data formats.

      In the hotel comment at the end of my last post, I know of at least one chain that uses Indala brand cards, a proprietary format to serve a similar purpose to HID 26-bit.
      The difference is Indala comes with the "facility" ID part burnt in from the factory, and must be specified when ordering and can't be changed afterwards. You're stuck ordering from them forever.
      HID 26-bit also provides for separate facility/unique parts of the ID, but both are user writable. Pretty sure it has 24 bits for data, 2 bits for parity one for each "half", but if I recall correctly it specified an 8/16 bit division for those purposes.
      And of course one can use those bits anyway you want, though obviously to keep compatibility with other systems you'll certainly want to assume the right 16 bits for the unique ID part.

    37. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Soooo your saying Google is so far ahead it takes apple and the rest of the world 5-6 years to catch up. Sounds about right.
      Thats the cost of be true innovators; not make believe ones like apple.

    38. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, I think you were trying to say that things suddenly become popular just because Apple implements them? Was that your point? Because it hasn't quite worked out for... well... a lot of things.

      Let's see...

      Portable MP3 players with decent capacity

      Firewire and, later, USB

      Smartphones as we know them

      Multi-touch screens/trackpads that can do more than scroll

      Those are just a few things that weren't invented by Apple, but didn't achieve significant success until after Apple started using them.

      Because most businesses want to provide a consistent customer experience. That is, one that works for 100% of customers, not merely 85%. Especially when some monetary investment is required on their part.

      On this point I think we can agree. One of the things Apple did arguably invent - for better or worse - is the "walled garden", which makes it easier for them to provide consistency across devices. On top of that, if I were to store something like the key to my home electronically, I'd much prefer a company that has shown good form in resisting both electronic and judicial attempts to access it.

      Nevertheless, if someone is going to break into my house, I'd rather they have to actually break into my house to do it.

    39. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      One of the things Apple did arguably invent - for better or worse - is the "walled garden"

      I think Nintendo has prior art on that, actually, though I don't believe they invented it, either.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    40. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1
      Wow, you are really obtuse, or Google is paying you - and that isn't an XOR.

      So how is your malware infested Android?

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    41. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by mjwx · · Score: 1

      my Android phone from 2014 has that.

      No, No, No, No, don't you see. Apple will "innovate" by making a system that is completely incompatible with other NFC systems.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    42. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WOAH We have a super apple shill here.

    43. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      About the same as my malware infested iOS. Actually, both are clean as can be because neither are jailbroken or rooted, I don't sideload, and I only install applications from trusted developers. They could both be equally infested with shit, though, if I didn't follow those guidelines.

      Go cash that Apple check so you can buy your meds.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    44. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      About the same as my malware infested iOS. Actually, both are clean as can be because neither are jailbroken or rooted,

      Boy are you stupid. You don't have to root your Android to download malware from the fucking Play Store. And the fact that Google has removed over 20% of all apps on it as malware doesn't mean there's now no more malware on it, because the makers just rename it at upload it again.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    45. Re:Another wonderful Apple innovation by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Boy are you stupid.

      Nah, you're just missing my point, so I'll state it more plainly, after completing the quote you cherrypicked.

      ...I don't sideload, and I only install applications from trusted developers.

      If you bother read the entire sentence, it becomes apparent that I do, in fact, realize that you don't have to root an Android device to pick up a bit of malware. You don't have to jailbreak your iOS device to download malware from the iOS App Store, either; again, you're welcome to go on thinking this is not the case, it's not my data that's at risk if you choose to remain ignorant.

      If we're being honest, I've run out of time to deal with you. We're done here.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
  2. "Doors open for iPhone users" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can hear the advertisement now.

  3. Oh Goodie! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Now Apple(and whoever they sell the information to) can know where I live, what time I got home, what time I left, what mode of transport I took, what I bought and where, and criminals can now hijack not just my bank account but my home, my car and my transit pass horrraaa!

    1. Re:Oh Goodie! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But there is a secure ENCLAVE!

    2. Re:Oh Goodie! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Now Apple(and whoever they sell the information to) can know where I live, what time I got home, what time I left, what mode of transport I took, what I bought and where, and criminals can now hijack not just my bank account but my home, my car and my transit pass horrraaa!

      Are you drunk?

      They already have all of that information.

    3. Re:Oh Goodie! by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 2

      Now Apple(and whoever they sell the information to) can know where I live, what time I got home, what time I left, what mode of transport I took, what I bought and where, and criminals can now hijack not just my bank account but my home, my car and my transit pass horrraaa!

      You have Apple confused with Google.

    4. Re:Oh Goodie! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly not. IDIOT!

    5. Re:Oh Goodie! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes, not in way you mean. Corporate America has drunk me as a glass of water.

  4. Give them the keys by jabberw0k · · Score: 3, Funny

    once Microsoft Amazon Google Apple (MAGA) convince you to discard your books, your music discs, your house keys, your car keys, and the ability to pay for anything other than through them -- the enslavement will be complete. Now be a good citizen and comply... your papers, please?

    1. Re:Give them the keys by MaxDCoyle · · Score: 1

      Papers? Ha ha. Your phone, please?

  5. Apple Hardware Program by monkeyxpress · · Score: 2

    I understand why Apple locked down hardware interfaces on their devices back when you plugged most accessories into the bottom of your phone, but why do they still continue to do it now in the era of wireless? For example, the Bluetooth interface still doesn't let you open a serial port profile with another Bluetooth device unless you have paid silly amounts of money to get your product through MFI. What bad thing is my app accessing a wireless bluetooth serial port device going to do that I cannot do with a TCP/IP port onto the internet?

    They relaxed things a tiny bit with BTLE, but they ensured the data rates on this were painful slow to the point of excluding a huge class of use cases. And then they ditched the headphone jack which removed a common hack used to get a signal in/out of iDevices. A whole world of external devices controlled by your phone would have been available to use years ago if Apple had had a reasonable wireless hardware policy (or at least had simplified its MFI program - you can't even find out how much it costs until you sign your life away).

    Again, I totally understand the original motivation for regulating hardware devices, but with most of the devices people want to connect to being wireless that now seems redundant, and since Apple doesn't appear to be interested in building their own IOT ecosystem, I don't even see what they are gaining financially from the situation. If they opened up the bluetooth SPP there would an explosion in hardware gadgets that you can control with your iPhone.

    1. Re:Apple Hardware Program by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Because Apple boldly protects their users, who apparently can't even manage multiple button functions dating back to the first Apple mouse. I'm a regular Android user but I use an iPhone for an mp3 player. I can't believe the mess of swoops iOS creates. Swoop down 0.25 inches from the top of the screen it does one thing, swoop down from the top and it does another. Where is the back? One place in Apple music, another in the browser. It's a crazy mess. Can't imagine living with one of these, frustrating enough as an mp3 player.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    2. Re:Apple Hardware Program by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You answered your own question... "paid silly amounts of money". They're exceptionally greedy, wanting a large percentage out of everything they can get.

      If they opened up SPP, imagine all the Dropboxes who can no longer get banned from the app store for trying to get 100% of the subscription fees to provide their users with the most they can..

    3. Re:Apple Hardware Program by ArhcAngel · · Score: 1

      I understand why Apple locked down hardware interfaces on their devices back when you plugged most accessories into the bottom of your phone, but why do they still continue to do it now in the era of wireless?

      the Bluetooth interface still doesn't let you open a serial port profile with another Bluetooth device unless you have paid silly amounts of money to get your product through MFI.

      You answered your own question.

      --
      "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    4. Re:Apple Hardware Program by greenwow · · Score: 1

      I don't think that's correct. There was no charge when we did that, but that was years ago. According to this, there's still no charge:

      https://mfi.apple.com/MFiWeb/getFAQ.action#2-5

    5. Re:Apple Hardware Program by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "There is no program fee at this time. However, all program applicants must purchase and complete a company identity verification through a secure, third party Web-site."

      You missed the part where you have to get an expensive extended validation SSL cert.

    6. Re:Apple Hardware Program by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      There is institutional fear within Apple of losing control of their own system.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    7. Re: Apple Hardware Program by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They control the vertical.
      They control the horizontal.

    8. Re:Apple Hardware Program by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      I understand why Apple locked down hardware interfaces on their devices back when you plugged most accessories into the bottom of your phone, but why do they still continue to do it now in the era of wireless? For example, the Bluetooth interface still doesn't let you open a serial port profile with another Bluetooth device unless you have paid silly amounts of money to get your product through MFI. What bad thing is my app accessing a wireless bluetooth serial port device going to do that I cannot do with a TCP/IP port onto the internet?

      They relaxed things a tiny bit with BTLE, but they ensured the data rates on this were painful slow to the point of excluding a huge class of use cases. And then they ditched the headphone jack which removed a common hack used to get a signal in/out of iDevices. A whole world of external devices controlled by your phone would have been available to use years ago if Apple had had a reasonable wireless hardware policy (or at least had simplified its MFI program - you can't even find out how much it costs until you sign your life away).

      Again, I totally understand the original motivation for regulating hardware devices, but with most of the devices people want to connect to being wireless that now seems redundant, and since Apple doesn't appear to be interested in building their own IOT ecosystem, I don't even see what they are gaining financially from the situation. If they opened up the bluetooth SPP there would an explosion in hardware gadgets that you can control with your iPhone.

      I agree with you wholeheartedly.

      It does seem to be a hard-to-defend position.

    9. Re: Apple Hardware Program by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously? I mean, you must be a fucking retard if those are the problems you are having. Swoop? LUL. Fucking moron.

  6. NFC is NOT "more secure" by johnjones · · Score: 2

    NXP pretty much owns NFC so its a standard where you pay one company...

    Apple previously has only allowed reading from a NFC chip and restricted the ability to write/respond to Apple pay

    If apple opens this up then why would banks use or sign up for "Apple pay" ? (spoiler they wont)

      the smart thing to do would to engage the phones bluetooth controller via NFC and have bluetooth open the door.
    (this solves the locality issue where bluetooth controller is not sure if you wish to open the door or has to constantly ping wondering if its near the door and if you wish to open it)

    Also Bluetooth allows you to choose your own encryption and Apple have a standard already for doors ("Homekit" which has strong encryption ) this would be a simple extension of homekit for offices which would be an additional revenue model...

    Officekit - you heard it here first...

    regards

    John Jones

    1. Re:NFC is NOT "more secure" by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      NFC is just a transport layer, like ethernet or a USB cable. It doesn't have any inherent security beyond the fact that it only works over short distances unless you have a really big antenna.

      For stuff like payments there is a secure protocol built on top of it, just like you have SSH built on top of insecure protocols like TCP and ethernet.

      NFC isn't a bad solution for opening doors. You can make it secure with a challenge/response protocol that is resistant to replay attacks. I guess maybe someone could come along with a big antenna and do a relay attack on your front door in the middle of the night, but there are easier ways to break into your house and it would be quite tricky to aim the thing well enough.

      At least, compared to a physical key that can be cloned from a photograph it's not terrible.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re: NFC is NOT "more secure" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless you live in a stupid ass backwards country filled with idiotic fanatic Apple cult iSheeps... like I sadly do... the banks have adopted ApplePay and Apple this and that but completely ignore Android even though 50% of the people still have Android phones...

    3. Re:NFC is NOT "more secure" by mjwx · · Score: 1

      NXP pretty much owns NFC so its a standard where you pay one company...

      Apple previously has only allowed reading from a NFC chip and restricted the ability to write/respond to Apple pay

      If apple opens this up then why would banks use or sign up for "Apple pay" ? (spoiler they wont)

      You've got that the wrong way around. Apple is buying products from the banks. Apple pay is a wrapper for a credit card, so it's someone else's banking product, Apple is just being a(nother) middleman.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  7. oh good by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 5, Funny

    I was hoping to bring the airtight security of smart phones to my car and dwelling.

    1. Re:oh good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was hoping to bring the airtight security of smart phones to my car and dwelling.

      Given the number of exploits for keyless automobile systems over the years, I'd trust Apple more for these types of things. Not sure I'd trust Android, or at least the phone OEMs, as they tend to abandon phones security-wise a couple of months after release.

      There may be many things to legitimately criticize Apple for, but at least they support their products for a number of years (and support it in a way that even my mom can do software updates).

    2. Re:oh good by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

      What could possibly go wrong?

      --

      Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
  8. Meh by nospam007 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Sorry, but I put a NFC sticker inside my iPhone case years ago, thereby enabling it to open my front door.

    I'd prefer an app to identify the owners of all those cats who come visiting my porch every day.

    1. Re:Meh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You know that these stickers are just wirelessly readable and writable memory devices, don't you? There's nothing preventing someone from copying the data and presenting it to the lock. There are smart cards with embedded processors that can do actual cryptographic authentication, but the NFC stickers are not of that kind.

    2. Re:Meh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      HID is one of the companies that make those cards, and if they are partnered with Apple to build this out that is probably what is going on the backend utilizing the secure enclave.

  9. Welcome to 2013! by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2

    NFC on Android has been around for 5 years. Apple is once again lagging Android, and going to try to spin it as "revolutionary" even though 75% of all smart phones have been doing this for half a decade.

    Courage?

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    1. Re:Welcome to 2013! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Your opening it wrong?

    2. Re:Welcome to 2013! by psergiu · · Score: 1

      Example:
      - Samsung printer C410W with NFC
      - Samsung phone S6A with NFC
      Action: Enable NFC on the phone, install official Samsung printer mgmt app, tap phone on printer on designated area.
      Result: Pop-up on the phone with "Invalid device"

      NFC on Android might have been around for 5 years, but ...

      --
      1% APY, No fees, Online Bank https://captl1.co/2uIErYq Don't let your $$$ sit in a no-interest acct.
    3. Re:Welcome to 2013! by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Hmmm...My C1810W and my Galaxy Note 5 (and now Note 8) work great. But hey, maybe ONE DAY we'll see an iPhone with anything close to that functionality.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    4. Re:Welcome to 2013! by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      NFC on Android has been around for 5 years. Apple is once again lagging Android, and going to try to spin it as "revolutionary" even though 75% of all smart phones have been doing this for half a decade.

      Courage?

      I didn't see one thing that looked like Apple was claiming this was their invention, let alone anything revolutionary. It is just a new capability for iPhones (and maybe iPads?). Nothing more, nothing less.

      Try not to Hate before thinking. Is that even possible for you?

    5. Re:Welcome to 2013! by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1
      Here's a great quote stating it's a new Apple thing:

      The inference of the current story is that Apple has now figured out how to invite strangers into this element of its technology in such a way as to provide end user convenience while maintaining a consistent user experience and high degrees of security and privacy.

      Before Apple, it never worked, it was tough to use, inconsistent, and insecure. Now Apple - courageously - has solved all those issues! Hurray!

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    6. Re:Welcome to 2013! by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Normally, tapping a printer on the NFC before installing the app will direct you by URI to the appropriate app (where the URI also identifies the printer to be discovered). I think. Or at least that's how it should be designed.

    7. Re:Welcome to 2013! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      apple doesnt have to claim anything. Their tech ignorant blind cultists ; like yourself; will do that for them.

      Try not to shill before thinking. Is that even possible for you?

    8. Re: Welcome to 2013! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More like welcome to 2010...

      Moto g in 2010

      Despite what iSheep preach in the church of Apple... Android functionality is working fine!

    9. Re:Welcome to 2013! by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Here's a great quote stating it's a new Apple thing:

      The inference of the current story is that Apple has now figured out how to invite strangers into this element of its technology in such a way as to provide end user convenience while maintaining a consistent user experience and high degrees of security and privacy.

      Before Apple, it never worked, it was tough to use, inconsistent, and insecure. Now Apple - courageously - has solved all those issues! Hurray!

      Sounds to me like yellow journalism on top of yellow journalism.

    10. Re:Welcome to 2013! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's been around for a lot longer than that on BlackBerry.

    11. Re:Welcome to 2013! by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Or, as most of the rest of the world puts it, Apple faithful making everything Apple-centric.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    12. Re:Welcome to 2013! by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      So your complaint is that Apple isn't claiming they invented it (what you claimed in the OP), but that computer magazines think it's better than what Android offers. Is this your general befuddlement showing? Or are you just being an ass?

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    13. Re:Welcome to 2013! by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Or, as most of the rest of the world puts it, Apple faithful making everything Apple-centric.

      If Computerworld is the Apple faithful, you are the Doomsday Cult.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    14. Re:Welcome to 2013! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All the real tech sites are becoming immune to apples lies and bullshits. They are no longer afraid of the apple blacklist.

  10. Fewer things to have to find in the morning by MountainLogic · · Score: 1

    Finally, one less thing to root around for in the morning to make me late for work. I really want to throw away my keys and wallet. I can remember arcane bits of 60's sitcom trivia and Maxwell's equations, but I never seem to remember where I put and keys and wallet the night before. There have been halting efforts for digital driver's licenses. Of course, loose your phone then and you are deeply hosed. With no wallet, good luck getting money from the bank to buy a new phone (master digital token) to bootstrap you life back. Plus, I've always hated badges ("we don't need..."). Once everyone is opening doors with phones there will less and less argument for those horrible status symbols hanging off your belt - and one less thing to forget in the morning.

    1. Re:Fewer things to have to find in the morning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pro Tip: Put your keys, wallet, and change into your shoes when you get home.
      You then have one contained pile to remember when you have the house again.

      Have different weekend/work week shoes? Set them next to each other, and put your pocket contents into the pair of shoes you're most likely to wear next.

    2. Re:Fewer things to have to find in the morning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No need for shoes. Just put your wallet and keys in the same place each time. I put mine in a small box in the hall secretary.

    3. Re:Fewer things to have to find in the morning by ewibble · · Score: 1

      Finally another simple, cheap thing that was working perfectly fine, replaced by something expensive that consumes needless energy. Can't wait until my phone goes flat so I can't get into my house. Or maybe I will have to pay a monthly subscription, or upgrade the locks in my house because apple no longer provide support for that version of lock. I simply love the fact I have to pay $400 to replace a key for my car right now.

    4. Re:Fewer things to have to find in the morning by Patent+Lover · · Score: 1

      Wait' til you're 50.

  11. Bold move apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    thanks for bringing people the future. Albeit 5 -6 years later then everyone else.

  12. What could possibly go wrong! by hyades1 · · Score: 1

    The potential cost of getting hacked just keeps going higher and higher.

    And I wonder how long it will be before some bright light in law enforcement tries to make the case that if you let your phone open your car (or home), you've given up your right to refuse entry to those places to nosy people with badges, as long as they can find some legal pretext to demand access to the device itself.

    --
    I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
    1. Re: What could possibly go wrong! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, the pretext will be that you driver's license is digital and on your phone.

      Personally, I like my cellphone to be something that there is no reason to take out of my pocket for law enforcement.

    2. Re:What could possibly go wrong! by pr0fessor · · Score: 1

      None of the doors on my house are actually secure even with the door locked and a deadbolt you can easily knock out the glass and just reach through and unlock them. This isn't mentioning the wood door jamb that could be easily destroyed just by kicking the door right next to knob and deadbolt.

  13. No NFC is not owned by NXP by testman3 · · Score: 0

    NXP do own Mifaire technology that is what is used in most door opening scenarii. But, NFC (aka ISO/IEC 1809 & ECMA-340 ) are standardized Open (read Open Standard) solution. Although most chipset do support both, on lot of phones (say Samsung for instance), only NFC is enabled because of royalties disputes between the manufacturer and NXP. Most Mifaire standards are known for security issues. But you know, most people still use pin-based lock which most of them can be oppenned in a bunch of minutes with innexpensive tools. So ... Anyway, in all the application I've designed that required NFC, our customer decided to either drop the feature (because iOS lacked NFC support) or simply dropped the iOS application. In most cases it was a casus belli that ends the iOS device predominancy at the corp.

  14. Fewer things to have to find in your pockets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Finally, one less thing to root around pockets for in the metro to make me more likely to be caught.

  15. First customer: Hilton? by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

    The hotel chain has been pushing the idea of electronic locks for several years. The 1700 Hilton properties that currently use these locks allow you to unlock doors as a feature of their reservation app. It's a nice feature, but will get a lot more useful when it operates from NFC directly, rather than having you go into the app and bring up the Digital Kay tab. An NFC implementation would allow you to open doors hands-free, which would be nice to have at conferences when you're always carrying miscellaneous things.

    1. Re:First customer: Hilton? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably you will have to open an app to seize the NFC, but maybe not... either way you're still going to have to hold the phone up to the door lock, just like Apple/Google Pay doesn't work with your phone in your pocket.

  16. Provided it is 2FA, fine. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Provided it is 2FA, fine.

    If NFC is the single factor, someone needs to end up in jail. This would be irresponsible to ship for a security product that doesn't include other protections which aren't part of the iWhatever.

    There are lots of bad ideas and Apple has certainly forced a few onto their customers. If Apple were so smart, you wouldn't need so may converters would you just to use Apple computers and iWhatever stuff.

  17. Apple innovation - Open every door. Yours or not! by See+Attached · · Score: 1

    Like that trollop from the commercial. Now you can open every school locker, Janitors closet, and everyone trunk as well as screwing up science experiments. How did anyone think that put the product in a good light? One youngster hoses down tons of people and we think this is a good idea? Pffft. Catering to Egos of undeveloped adolescents. Was probably put out there to start the discussion on how to do it safely, and WE are being crowdsourced to help them solve the issue? Now... you swipe a phone, then you are in their door, and can start their car.. and buy things.. What could go wrong?

    --
    Time for a new Political party in the US (or two!) One is off the rails Other cant pony up a leader.
  18. Re:Apple innovation - Open every door. Yours or no by BronsCon · · Score: 1

    Well, as long as the phone prompts for biometrics before unlocking the door or starting the car, as is done with payments -- and how it's done on Android -- it's reasonably safe.

    --
    APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
  19. "Open the pod bay doors, HAL" by Babel-17 · · Score: 1

    "I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that." (Dave takes out iPhone)

  20. HID door security compatibility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Who gives a flying fu*k, It's not like this is going to be backwards compatible with most of the HID installations in place already. A lot of those existing installations rely on older RFID technology in the hundreds of killohertz, its why you can't read your HID prox card with the NFC in an android phone. NFC works in the 13mhz band.

    This is going to be a complete flop on apple's part unless they can convince the millions of office buildings to upgrade their RFID badge readers to be compatible with the 13mhz NFC frequencies.

    Snipet from an article about NFC and RFID

    Passive RFID tags primarily operate at three frequency ranges:

    Low Frequency (LF) 125 -134 kHz
    High Frequency (HF)13.56 MHz
    Ultra High Frequency (UHF) 856 MHz to 960 MHz

    Near-field communication devices operate at the same frequency (13.56 MHz) as HF RFID readers and tags. The standards and protocols of the NFC format is based on RFID standards outlined in ISO/IEC 14443, FeliCa, and the basis for parts of ISO/IEC 18092. These standards deal with the use of RFID in proximity cards.

  21. When technology goes way beyond society by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can predict some problems and i'm only 2% blockchained AI.

  22. you have to license patents for ISO/IEC 1809 by johnjones · · Score: 1

    ISO/IEC 1809 is covered by patents its not "free" just because its a standard does not mean anyone can implement it...

  23. Felica NFC? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    japanese iOS products have an enhanced NFC chip that implements Felica by Sony. Felica is the beezknees for wireless almost-touch applications like transit and convenience store payments. But part of why Felica is superior is the heavily locked down infrastructure. If Apple lets devs into the NFC chip, then by extension they will start feeling up the Felica specific portions, which might end badly...