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Dell is Reportedly Working on a Dual-Screen Windows ARM Device (theverge.com)

Dell is working on a foldable dual-screen device, according to a report. According to news blog WinFuture, Dell's supposedly forthcoming device would run Windows 10 and an unreleased Qualcomm Snapdragon 850 ARM processor. From a report: Dell's device is reportedly codenamed "Januss," and has been under development since last summer, but it's not clear whether the device will ever come to market. Dell was working on mobile Windows devices before, and those devices were canceled. Microsoft also canceled its own Surface Mini device, just weeks before it was due to be revealed. The Verge understands that the documents WinFuture has obtained are old, and that Dell could have altered its product plans by now.

35 comments

  1. Dual-screen device? by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 2

    That's nothing! I dropped my iPhone and now it has roughly 17 screens*!

    * shapes vary from one screen to another.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
    1. Re:Dual-screen device? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      I, for one, salute your Courage. If the 'notch' is design genius; the crack matrix is genuinely revolutionary.

    2. Re:Dual-screen device? by rasmirana6457 · · Score: 1

      Dell displays are one of the best monitors. I use dell monitor with 4k display .Dell customer care also give 24 hours support to dell users.

  2. device name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The device full name is Hugh Januss.

  3. Is it huge? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Must be.

  4. sounds familiar by karchie · · Score: 1

    This sounds a bit like the old Microsoft Courier. I really wanted one of those at the time but it never came to life

    --
    You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. -- Super Chicken
    1. Re:sounds familiar by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      I guess we'll have to wait for the Microsoft Times New Roman.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    2. Re:sounds familiar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I guess we'll have to wait for the Microsoft Times New Roman.

      Why wait, it's here: https://www.wfonts.com/font/tm...

    3. Re:sounds familiar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought about a Nintendo DS

  5. Future failure... by GuB-42 · · Score: 1

    I can't think of any commercially successful attempt to put Windows on something that isn't an x86 PC. And I don't see why that thing would be any different.

    You get Windows for the huge software library accumulated over decades and because you get the best support for just about anything you can plug into your computer, graphic cards in particular.
    ARM devices like that lack the binary compatibility with everything that's written for x86 and lack the extensiblility of PCs that make good drivers so crucial. So why bother with Windows? There is that killer app called MS-Office but you need a proper keyboard to be productive, and even that didn't save the original ARM Surface.

    1. Re:Future failure... by youngone · · Score: 1

      I was thinking the same thing really. As someone who has to support a bunch of Windows CE devices I would prefer anything else really.

    2. Re: Future failure... by DatbeDank · · Score: 1

      Windows 10 for Arm devices has a 64bit emulation layer for non native applications.

      Balmer and Gates are gone. It would behoove us to think it's the same company it once was. I wouldn't under estimate them.

    3. Re:Future failure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The new ones emulate x86 programs. Some tech sites and YouTube shows like Hardware Unboxed tested them. They have terrible performance, but fantastic battery life.

      I think it's a foot in the door for commercial applications. Some utility companies/shipping/etc. use tablets to track inventory, invoices, and whatever else. I can't see the average consumer paying a premium for better battery life.

    4. Re: Future failure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Office runs on iOS devices with ARM processors. Smartphone and tablet sales with OSâ(TM)s and apps that run on ARM based operating systems far outweigh sales of laptops and desktops. Apple will release their own CPUâ(TM)s for their laptops that are ARM based and outperform Intel and AMD chips in the next few years. x86/x64 based chips are the past. ARM is the future.

    5. Re:Future failure... by rrohbeck · · Score: 2

      If it flops the HW will be available for cheap and somebody will port Linux to it. Win!
      Of course Dell could preclude the flop by offering it with Linux (I'd really like such a device) or Android, or at least supporting Linux development.

    6. Re:Future failure... by Misagon · · Score: 1

      Windows 10 for ARM (64-bit) has an emulation layer for 32-bit x86 applications. It is supposed to be able to run old 32-bit programs, with their 32-bit DLLs transparently.
      Support for emulating x86-64 programs is not available, but is coming.

      Technical details: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      --
      "We mustn't be caught by surprise by our own advancing technology" -- Aldous Huxley
    7. Re:Future failure... by dfghjk · · Score: 1

      "I can't think of any commercially successful attempt to put Windows on something that isn't an x86 PC. And I don't see why that thing would be any different."

      While this is true, it's not a good business plan for MS going forward.

      "You get Windows for the huge software library accumulated over decades and because you get the best support for just about anything you can plug into your computer, graphic cards in particular."

      This has not been true for a long time.

      Furthermore, when NT came out it ran on non-x86 platforms yet executed a "huge software library accumulated over decades" using emulation on those processors. Did not matter. ARM can also emulate, but the idea that this is a critical aspect of the platform is misguided.

    8. Re:Future failure... by Serge_Tomiko · · Score: 1

      You're just not in the business world.

      The only thing I need is MS Office, OneNote, Edge, Bing Maps, Wunderlist, and Spotify. I'd like to have Adobe Lightroom CC, but I'm sure they will make an ARM Binary in time.

      I've long been in the Surface camp, and I've tried to use an Ipad. But frankly, they suck. I have a top spec Surface Book 2, and it's great. I'd love it if MS made a 10" Surface tablet with an ARM processor that is actually good (i.e. 3:2 screen, high resolution - not the 1080p crap that was the RT model).

      There is a market for these devices, mostly because Apple has simply ceased innovating.

    9. Re:Future failure... by Serge_Tomiko · · Score: 1

      Microsoft just realized 5 years earlier than Apple that X86 won. There were solid DEC Alpha machines, but then that was abandoned. And Sparc. And PowerPC was already failing to deliver.

      It's different now. Intel can't make low power processors. Some of us want a small, portable device that runs the main Windows applications, has great battery life, and always on functionality like an ipad.

    10. Re:Future failure... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      "Luckily" the Surface RT (which otherwise could have been an interesting bit of gear to salvage after Windows RT crashed and burned) 'fixed' that problem with mandatory secure boot(they strongly encourage it on the x86s; but there is the option to turn it off and, on some systems, mostly business class, the option to keep it on but provision your own trusted roots).

      Unless MS has had a change of heart about the matter I wouldn't be too optimistic about the prospects for 3rd party development; even if the hardware is otherwise sufficiently well understood and supported for at least an Android port; if not necessarily a 'standard' Xorg and glibc Linux install.

      That said, unless there is some really, really, harsh "OEM partner Must Not offer an equivalent non-Windows device as a condition of this agreement" agreement in place; I'd imagine that Dell, and any others who are doing similar gear, might well try to salvage the various engineering costs(potentially even actual hardware if it can be de-branded and reflashed economically) by also releasing pretty much the same thing in Android; but the odds that something purchased as Windows-on-ARM with Microsoft CA secure boot is going to get a post-sale vendor patch to Android option are...limited.

    11. Re:Future failure... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Unless the win32/x86 emulation layer they've been talking about is pretty solid and works well(and nobody goes power-tripping and tries for a "The Windows Store is your only option" play(as Windows RT did; and "Windows S" started by doing before it became a special install option for Windows Pro SKUs) they likely aren't going to succeed at "make some qualcomm thing act just like you expect a wintel to"; but Microsoft arguably has all the ingredients they need for a perfectly serviceable "Edgebook"

      The NT kernel itself, and the various other under-the-hood stuff is vastly less gruesome than the awful world of WinCE devices; they've got their pet browser that works fine(some galling limitations on the configurability side; but reports on speed and security for Edge are decent); they've got the supporting ecosystem("Microsoft accounts" on the consumer end and o365+AAD on the business end are at least approximately comparable to Google's 'gmail account' on the consumer side; 'Google Apps for Business/education' on the paid side); and assuming the x86 emulation is OK the collection of Windows software they'll be able to bring over will probably have he same potential to be useful as the Android app support Google has been tacking on to ChromeOS. None of this is to say that they are an obvious improvement; or that theirs would be better than the equivalent Chromebook; but the success of Chromebooks clearly demonstrates that there is plenty of interest in cheap, idiot-proof, largely cloud-service backed, options; and if Microsoft wants an equivalent(as opposed to their current 'just try to cut a standard wintel down until it is price competitive' stopgap) I don't see why they couldn't deliver one.

      It would not be a serious alternative to a standard wintel if you want a real windows system, with all the software support and on premises AD and whatnot; but Microsoft has what they need to deliver a "chromebook but with Microsoft technologies", if they choose to do so.

    12. Re: Future failure... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Fedora Linux can be installed on secure boot enabled systems, and IIRC there are a few others that do as well.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    13. Re:Future failure... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I can't think of any commercially successful attempt to put Windows on something that isn't an x86 PC.

      Xbox 360.

      They gave up on that and went back to just using a PC for the basis of their console like they did the first time, but it wasn't because it didn't work right. It was just because it was unnecessarily expensive.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    14. Re: Future failure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Windows 10 for Arm devices has a 64bit emulation layer for non native applications.

      You are confused, which may have been aided deliberately by Microsoft: There are Qualcomm ARM processors that have hardware assist for emulating x86. That is specifically 32bit x86 and _NOT_ 64bit AMDx86-64. This is done by converting 32bit x86 programs into ARM 64bit programs that use the additional hardware instructions in the Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 CPU (and thus only run on those) in order to provide adequate performance.

      https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/12/microsoft-pushes-for-a-more-modern-pc-with-vr-project-evo-and-arm-support/

      https://www.extremetech.com/computing/249292-microsoft-declares-windows-10-arm-devices-will-run-x86-code-near-native-speed

    15. Re:Future failure... by Agripa · · Score: 1

      I can't think of any commercially successful attempt to put Windows on something that isn't an x86 PC. And I don't see why that thing would be any different.

      Microsoft really screwed that up with their attempt to leverage their desktop monopoly into portable devices which do not support a desktop interface and porting that back to desktop Windows screwing it up also.

      It does not take ARM to develop a usable ARM based desktop; all it takes is for Microsoft to screw it up for both themselves and Intel. Intel should have been working on a desktop replacement for Windows years ago just to keep MIcrosoft focused.

      You get Windows for the huge software library accumulated over decades and because you get the best support for just about anything you can plug into your computer,

      Not anymore and less all the time. Every revision of Windows after XP has removed more compatibility with 32 bit applications so Linux now has better Win32 legacy support than MIcrosoft does.

  6. As Apple Has Made Clear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Intel is screwed. ARM is the processor of the future. Intel is the processor of the past. Intel will still make billions over the coming years selling laptop and desktop class processors but the future is mobile processors utilizing ARM.

    1. Re: As Apple Has Made Clear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe, on the mobile market but they are far from screwed if you look at the big picture - data centers, cloud providers and applications.

    2. Re:As Apple Has Made Clear by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't want my job to depend on keeping Intel's margins at their historical levels; but that's different than being screwed: All those mobile devices sucking 'cloud' services sell Xeons at a steady clip; the options for ARM outside of embedded remain (surprisingly, in all honesty) rather tepid(basically everyone has talked about how they've got a totally rocking ARM-for-datacenter option coming real soon now; but releases have been a lot less common, especially releases you can actually buy; and would want to. AMD has their Opteron A series; but doesn't talk about them much now that they have an x86 option that is actually good again; Qualcomm has made some noises about datacenter CPUs(no word on whether you are expected to just throw those away when they lose interest in driver support 1.5 Android releases from now...); Cavium has some stuff; but it's honestly a bit surprising how little there is.

      Given the number of cellphones, even pretty awful ones, that shove one of the 64-bit ARMs and a bunch of RAM into something battery powered I would have naively expected a reasonably healthy "We took a top of range 64 bit ARM and put it on a motherboard in one of the ATX sizes, with DIMM slots and peripherals; excellent value if you have a workload that doesn't lean too hard on peak single threaded performance or rely on x86 binary compatibility" market. Instead, it's mostly dev boards(often with the only software support being a BSP aimed at allowing you to get what's on the dev board shoved into an Android widget); typically with significant I/O limitations(even bottom-feeding consumer desktop parts usually have RAM expansion and PCIe lane supplies quite superior to the dev boards; though ARMs that at least have PCIe are more common than they used to be).

      ARM options have moved upmarket somewhat in the half server/half embedded things like NASes; used to be that ARM NASes were the very lowest of the low; now some reasonably respectable ones are available; but the offerings are still sparser than one would expect.

      Worst case, of course, Intel always has the option of doing merchant foundry stuff. Not as prestigious, or high margin, as fabbing their own parts that also command a substantial premium; but fabbing other people's SoCs to order would still beat bankruptcy by a considerable margin.

  7. Nobody will buy this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because instead of costing the same or less than an x86 PC, it will be something like $1200.

    Oh sure, you can buy more expensive laptops than that, but you can also head down to Walmart or Best Buy and pick one up for about $350.

    If they actually wanted to sell snapdragon Windows PCs, then they would price them at about $500.

  8. Donkey Kong on a phone. by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

    Finally!

  9. A two faced computer... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From a two faced manufacturer?

  10. Lack of general interest by DrYak · · Score: 1

    But "I wish I could run the same software on my tiny smartphone as I run on my giant over powered multi-screen workstation" isn't something you hear that often.

    Yes, Windows has a giant collection of legacy applications.
    But not much of them could actually be useful in a "smartphone with a soft-keyboard clamshell" form factor.

    In other word, very few users in of portable device are actually interested in running MS Windows software on their devices.
    (I think the above mentioned support for Office might be the only case getting any significant amount of vague user interest)

    Android apps are what seems to be the most enviable thing to run in that form factor.
    Seems that if you can't run apps from any of the too main ecosystem of the current duopoly (Android or iOS apps), your device will flop.
    Main reason why Windows 10 Mobile never of on anything small than "transformable tablet" (i.e.: a glorified laptop with a weird keyboard) and even there, they're having they lunch eaten by ChromeOS.

    Yup, Dell has probably noticed the popularity of crowd funding campaing like Gemini's revival of the Psion form factor.
    But Dell hasn't been paying attention to the fine details (Psion was popular back in its era because of an OS and software suite geared to the form factor. Gemini is currently targetting also OSes that are either geared to the form factor (Android currently supported, Sailfish OS collaboration with Jolla upcoming) or are customizable enough for us nerds to adapt it to the formfactor (GNU/Linux distributions are supported).

    I predict this device won't be as popular as Dell expects them, even with gimmicks like the clamshell keyboard being software on a a secondary screen. (And thus doubling as a digitizer tablet)

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  11. SecureBoot UEFI by DrYak · · Score: 1

    and somebody will port Linux to it. Win!

    That is going to be highly hampered by the fact that it's a Windows machine (thus relying on a SecureBoot UEFI bootloader).
    Unlike on the x86_64 world, where UEFI is *required* to allow end users to boot a 3rd party payload (either by disabling the SecoreBoot, or by adding their own signing key), there's no similar mandatory bootloader unlocking in ARM land.

    There's a risk that these devices come with a UEFI bootloader that will only exclusively boot kernels that have been signed by a secret key that only Microsoft has access to.
    (And no way to persuade Microsoft so sign some boot shim like on some GNU/Linux x86_64 distros - with the excuse that "it's an appliance, not a computer").

    Of course Dell could preclude the flop by offering it with Linux (I'd really like such a device) or Android, or at least supporting Linux development.

    That would really save the day if Dell gets involved to make sure that 3rd party firmware are going to be bootable.
    Then you're bound to see some LineageOS port of Androdi, right after the device gets released.
    And various full blown GNU/Linux following shortly after that, by leveraging libhybris and co (AFAIK Qualcomm only releases Android/Linux drivers for their SoCs, no GNU/Linux ones).

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  12. the general market no longer cares about chips by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The days of "Intel inside" are numbered. The cloud, and mobile have rendered the underlying chip brand a non issue. What remains an issue is battery life and heat/size.

  13. How about an ARM pizza box? by Agripa · · Score: 1

    How about an ARM pizza box with PCIe slots, plenty of ECC DIMM slots, and a standard ATX power supply? No? Then I am not interested.