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Lawmakers Call On Amazon and Google To Reconsider Ban On Domain Fronting (cyberscoop.com)

Posted by EditorDavid on from the cloud-considerations dept.

An anonymous reader quotes CyberScoop: Amazon and Google face sharp questions from a bipartisan pair of U.S. senators over the tech giants' decisions to ban domain fronting, a technique used to circumvent censorship and surveillance around the world. Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., and Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., sent a letter on Tuesday to Google CEO Larry Page and Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos over decisions by both companies in April to ban domain fronting.

Amazon then warned the developers of encrypted messaging app Signal that the organization would be banned from Amazon's cloud services if the service didn't stop using Amazon's cloud as cover. "We respectfully urge you to reconsider your decision to prohibit domain fronting given the harm it will do to global internet freedom and the risk it will impose upon human rights activists, journalists, and others who rely on the internet freedom tools," the senators wrote.

44 comments

  1. Trump will reconsider his treason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    But only after he's sentenced to die in Federal prison, a traitor.

    1. Re: Trump will reconsider his treason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obvious Russian is obvious.

      You know Americans don't care about treason right? That's a hot button in Russia, basically their whole history is one treason after another. So that's why you think we care? But we still do not.

    2. Re: Trump will reconsider his treason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course we donâ(TM)t care. The deep state is keeping the traitor in check.

    3. Re: Trump will reconsider his treason by saloomy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What these countries should be subjected to is for the rest of the world to decide the internet needs to be free, and totally free, everywhere. No GeoIP fencing, no banned services.

      If a private company wants to do it, fine by them. But if a country tried this shit, the rest of the world should block them off the internet entirely, watch their economy have a coronary, and beat them into allowing the net to operate the way the net wants to operate. If you build a messaging service, you should be able to market it to everyone, regardless of where they are.

    4. Re: Trump will reconsider his treason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well that's utopian but naive, each country has their own laws and "unfettered internet" isn't really a right vested in international law. Trump is a traitor either way, of course. Get a rope.

    5. Re: Trump will reconsider his treason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So because child pornography is legal in some weird country you think it should not be blocked by your government? Or would usage of these services still be up to the different countries to decide?

    6. Re: Trump will reconsider his treason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You guys are sooo easy to bait into feeding an off-topic troll. It just has to mention Trump, and it doesn't matter if it has nothing whatsoever to do with the article whatsoever.

    7. Re: Trump will reconsider his treason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      Trump has a lot to do with the article - he's trying to ban reporters from reporting the truth about his treasonous cabal that's undermining US interests directly. I'm sorry you can't see that your hero is a traitor. You will. #Mueller

    8. Re: Trump will reconsider his treason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "decide the internet needs to be free, and totally free, everywhere"
      Well the internet as it now exists wasn't built for free. Google could always start charging per search and ditch all the advertising revenue needed to keep their data centers operating. Facebook could start charging for it's most basic services and ditch their other revenue streams. Same for Twitter and all the other social media providers who provide the necessary services to distract and indoctrinate the idiotic masses. Ditto for all the other companies who build out the necessary infrastructure needed to keep the internet up and running. If you want to revert back to BBS's and dialup modems than please go right ahead. And of all the countries in the world the US still has the most unregulated and censorship free internet in the world. Outside of child pornography and using it to facilitate major felonies anything else is allowed. It's no surprise when countries like NK, China, Russia, or Iran inhibits the use of encryption for a whole variety of message traffic and bans services. But the EU member countries are doing the same thing because they think voting for laws out in the open to limit your privacy or access to information is some how different than just issuing decrees without comment like the totalitarian states.

    9. Re: Trump will reconsider his treason by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Well the internet as it now exists wasn't built for free.

      He means free as in speech, not as in beer.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    10. Re: Trump will reconsider his treason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      Um... no. He believes in our ability to speak freely. He does so when he disagrees with journalists. They are not perfect. They get things wrong. Many have agendas.

    11. Re: Trump will reconsider his treason by saloomy · · Score: 1

      Fuck off. If I got a rope, I'd Lynch you with it for suggest I hang myself.

      Back to the topping at hand. The internet is whatever each country wants it to be, so I'd countries decided they didn't want to partake with other countries who had draconian laws, the herd would move the straggler. That's all I'm saying. Oh, and not that I vote for him (I'm more a balls and strikes kind of guy anyway), but there's no way at this point given the state of the country, Trump loses in 2020. He will win. Statistics make a very strong case, even if the Democrats came up with a good candidate (unlikely).

    12. Re: Trump will reconsider his treason by saloomy · · Score: 1

      Thank you.

    13. Re: Trump will reconsider his treason by saloomy · · Score: 2

      Should child pornography be banned on the internet? No. Should people who produce and consume child pornography wherever it resides be prosecuted, and in my opinion raped and tortured, yes!

      If you wanted to write a history book on Child Pornography, and some state deemed that illegal, that's an infringement of free speech. I don't mind prosecuting for doing things. I do mind prosecuting people for saying things.

      Making child pornography is wrong. Consuming it is wrong. But those two don't justify the wrong of keeping people from having the freedom to speak.

      Remember, at some point in the US, interracial marriages were outlawed as indecent as well, and let me be clear here: I'm not saying that child pornography is the same thing or should ever be legal. I just don't want the government coming and saying what I say is illegal. I don't mind if the government says what I do is illegal. But what I say is not illegal. Just because I said it. Ever.

      Mind you that doesn't mean there aren't consequences. Just that it's not the speech your going to jail for.

    14. Re: Trump will reconsider his treason by orlanz · · Score: 1

      Even though "ban child porn" seems simple for us, globally it isn't so. What is a "child"? Why should adult pornography be legal?

      You and I probably have the same definitions and overall opinion. But a person becomes an adult at different ages across the world. And yes, they get adult responsibilities. We might think it is 21. Others 17, 15, 13, and some even 10. And that's present day. For Romans it was 8! A person could be sentenced to life at 8! In the US a person as young as 12 can be tried as an adult. Highly unlikely, but possible.

      As for porn, many countries have the belief that women (and men) can not consent to such a "profession". It is too damaging to the family structure that their societies depend on that a woman can not make that decision on their own. They view all porn as exploitation of the subject and on the official record ban it.

      So a global standard for banning... will just make everyone mad. The dark net will be as big as the official one.

    15. Re: Trump will reconsider his treason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Such comments and those who mark them as insightful are exactly the reason why less educated people in such countries advocate drastic measures such as requiring all personal data of the citizens of the country to be stored within the country. "That's the only adequate response to the promised sanctions involving cutting off access to SWIFT and the Internet, we'll have to make sure in advance that we are independent, f*** github, f*** scientific collaboration, oh and BTW it will also make it easier for law enforcement to raid the servers of any traitors".

    16. Re: Trump will reconsider his treason by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      The 2016 election capsized the democrats. The only way for them to recover is to partner with Republicans. If they do not there is a damn good chance the Trump will win again, or worse.

      The whole world shifted right at the same damn time. If you think it is going to shift left (moderate) by doubling down on radical socialism or forcing the issues that caused the shift then you are completely out of touch. It shifted right because normal people were assaulted by their governments after ignoring them for decades. (Germany bringing in 1MM refugees after beating people over the head with political correctness and all it entails--for example.) You need buy-in before you flood someone's neighborhood with destitute people--changing it overnight. Regardless of the migrant/refugee plight the influx scared the hell out of people. Turkey brought in 3MM and appeared to accept doing so but it still contributed to destabilizing the country. This is not the only issue but it certainly broke the camel's back. This pattern is repeated in many European and Muslim countries. Lump in the fact that things are not getting better for the less-than-two-dollars-per-day crowd and things are getting worse for the "1st world" middle class and you have a world on the brink of all out war. We are one small economic blip from losing our shit and tipping over the edge but politicians are standing around clueless--most of them.

      Electing right-wing politicians is not the answer of course but neither is preserving the status quo. In studying this shift I realized that the leftist parties automatically became the functional conservatives because their platform was rooted in maintaining the status quo. The far right is is now the radical left--which has always been violent as hell. Easy to miss.

      TLDR; Democrats better out the establishment on their side of the isle or be prepared to wither away as more people shift right in a march to chaos.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    17. Re: Trump will reconsider his treason by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      what were we talking about?

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    18. Re: Trump will reconsider his treason by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      "If you want to revert back to BBS's and dialup modems than please go right ahead."

      Don't temp me.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    19. Re: Trump will reconsider his treason by Synonymous+Homonym · · Score: 1

      A few years ago the USA's own immigration and customs enforcement DNS-blocked a Spanish sports betting site. What do you suggest the rest of the world do about it? Blackhole all IP addresses assigned to the USA? Seems exvessive, but if you think it would help keep the internet available there, maybe we should.

    20. Re: Trump will reconsider his treason by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      The 2016 election capsized the democrats. The only way for them to recover is to partner with Republicans.

      Nonsense. That is not a recovery.

      The only way for the DNC to recover is to embrace the left, instead of trying to be centrist. Voters have shown that they will vote for extremely liberal candidates, and the DNC has shown that it will stab them in the back at every opportunity. Polls showed that Sanders could have defeated Trump, but the DNC chose to run Clinton even though registered democratic voters wanted them to run Sanders. Unfortunately, the DNC is a bunch of corporate whores and they are constitutionally incapable of actually being far enough to the left.

      The whole world shifted right at the same damn time.

      No, no it didn't. It's just a couple of countries, the US and England. Most other countries are still moving to the left, or simply maintaining business as usual.

      The far right is is now the radical left

      What the hell are you on about?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    21. Re: Trump will reconsider his treason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you for bringing this up, and the fact that it got voted down speaks volumes. It's like people want to pretend that the Israeli meddling in US politics isn't even a thing.

  2. really showed their hand here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "We won't be able to intercept all that juicy prohibited traffic and find out who's being naughty"

    compromat

  3. Wait a moment by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think I got that wrong, politicians want Amazon to enable people to circumvent censorship and country lockouts?

    Did the RIAA check bounce?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Wait a moment by lhunath · · Score: 1

      Amazingly, not all politicians are mere stereotypes. Some of them are actually human. Worth looking at who these specific people are and remembering their names.

      --
      ``OK, so ten out of ten for style, but minus several million for good thinking, yeah?''
  4. A democrat and a RINO walk into a bar. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    And they want it to look like something else.

    The 'good' of domain fronting is NOTHING compared to the evil that can be done with it. No fuck you stupid lawmakers.

    I'm guessing they want to use this for their astroturf campaigns against trump. No that's not a shitty shareblue site at all!

  5. Domain Fronting & malware using it... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    Domain Fronting & malware using it (vs. https use for 'security' (always gets broken thru anyhow just like certs do (or stolen)): It's a possibility to use it for that too...

    HOWEVER: I'd wager HARDCODED FAVORITE SITES hosts can let you do (& my hosts engine places them @ the TOP of hosts for fastest possible resolution locally vs. security-issue riddled DNS that's slower) would make you safe vs. this crap (it avoids DNS).

    ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTE for more speed/safety/reliability & even more anonymity via APK Hosts File Engine 2.0++ 64-bit for Linux h t t p : / / a p k . i t - m a t e . c o . u k / A P K H o s t s F i l e E n g i n e F o r L i n u x . z i p (remove spaces between characters & download)

    APK

    P.S.=> THINK ABOUT IT (it can SAY it's 1 domain but by the time it hits the TLS layer it's really pointing at another (one that's MALICIOUS))... apk

    1. Re:Domain Fronting & malware using it... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      STFU sperg

      No one wants or uses your primitive bullshit.

      Fuck off autist.

      numbnuts

  6. Sadly it is a doom situation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Domain fronting may be useful for circumvent censorship and surveillance, but fact is that it is used mostly for criminal behavior.

    So we either stop the usage or just accept that criminals will be the primary users of the service.

  7. Signal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mr. Marlinspike needs to reconsider distributed networks and federation. It's the only way forward.

    1. Re:Signal by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      Which makes the data ephemeral unless it is housed on a server. Sure the servers are distributed at first, until they aren't. Data == power.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
  8. But net neutrality ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

    ... don't touch that, OK?

    That's a capitalism of a different colour.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    1. Re:But net neutrality ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... used to circumvent censorship and surveillance.

      What short memories politicians have: Six months again domain-fronting had to be banned because it enabled fake identities and spam-bots.

      That's a capitalism ...

      If Google, Amazon and friends could make money from selling fake identities, we wouldn't be having this conversation. This is corporations and government deciding which rights the people can use; namely, not using third parties (Amazon) to have encrypted conversations. But it's acceptable for government to use third-parties (Google, AT&T) to surveil users.

  9. Domain Fronting & malware using it... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    Domain Fronting & malware using it (vs. https use for 'security' (always gets broken thru anyhow just like certs do (or stolen)): It's a possibility to use it for that too...

    HOWEVER: I'd wager HARDCODED FAVORITE SITES hosts can let you do (& my hosts engine places them @ the TOP of hosts for fastest possible resolution locally vs. security-issue riddled DNS that's slower) would make you safe vs. this crap (it avoids DNS).

    ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTE for more speed/safety/reliability & even more anonymity via APK Hosts File Engine 2.0++ 64-bit for Linux h t t p : / / a p k . i t - m a t e . c o . u k / A P K H o s t s F i l e E n g i n e F o r L i n u x . z i p (remove spaces between characters & download)

    APK

    P.S.=> THINK ABOUT IT (it can SAY it's 1 domain but by the time it hits the TLS layer it's really pointing at another (one that's MALICIOUS))... apk

  10. EXACTAMUNDO... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    See subject: You've hit on the SAME thing I was thinking here https://yro.slashdot.org/comme...

    * "Great minds think alike"

    APK

    P.S.=> Always 2 sides to every razor... apk

  11. Domain Fronting & malware using it... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    Domain Fronting & malware using it (vs. https use for 'security' (always gets broken thru anyhow just like certs do (or stolen)): It's a possibility to use it for that too...

    HOWEVER: I'd wager HARDCODED FAVORITE SITES hosts can let you do (& my hosts engine places them @ the TOP of hosts for fastest possible resolution locally vs. security-issue riddled DNS that's slower) would make you safe vs. this crap (it avoids DNS).

    ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTE for more speed/safety/reliability & even more anonymity via APK Hosts File Engine 2.0++ 64-bit for Linux h t t p : / / a p k . i t - m a t e . c o . u k / A P K H o s t s F i l e E n g i n e F o r L i n u x . z i p (remove spaces between characters & download).

    APK

    P.S.=> THINK ABOUT IT (it can SAY it's 1 domain but by the time it hits the TLS layer it's really pointing at another (one that's MALICIOUS))... apk

  12. EXACTAMUNDO... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: You've hit on the SAME thing I was thinking here https://yro.slashdot.org/comme...

    * "Great minds think alike"!

    APK

    P.S.=> Always 2 sides to every razor... apk

  13. What if... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What if somebody released a story suggesting domain fronting was by TLA's to spy on americans? How would Wyden and Rubio be treating that? Would they touch that with a 1000 foot barge pole?

  14. Election season by Genevish · · Score: 1

    Must be elections coming up

    1. Re:Election season by FranklinWebber · · Score: 1

      Yes, in the US there's always an election coming up, but no, both these senators were elected in 2016 to 6-year terms so neither is facing reelection. Perhaps you could consider the possibility that they mean what they say and are actually concerned about the future of free speech?

  15. How do the bottom of those boots taste? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're a Deep State bootlicker, so I assume you know.

  16. Central servers are part of WHY Signal is successf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Marlinspike created one of the most widely-used secure communication protocols in human history, then raised $50MM for future growth into a new non-profit. Way forward? It looks like he's winning pretty hard already.

  17. Domain Fronting & malware using it... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Domain Fronting & malware using it (vs. https use for 'security' (always gets broken thru anyhow just like certs do (or stolen)): It's a possibility to use it for that too...

    HOWEVER: I'd wager HARDCODED FAVORITE SITES hosts can let you do (& my hosts engine places them @ the TOP of hosts for fastest possible resolution locally vs. security-issue riddled DNS that's slower) would make you safe vs. this crap (it avoids DNS)...

    ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTE for more speed/safety/reliability & even more anonymity via APK Hosts File Engine 2.0++ 64-bit for Linux h t t p : / / a p k . i t - m a t e . c o . u k / A P K H o s t s F i l e E n g i n e F o r L i n u x . z i p (remove spaces between characters & download).

    APK

    P.S.=> THINK ABOUT IT (it can SAY it's 1 domain but by the time it hits the TLS layer it's really pointing at another (one that's MALICIOUS))... apk

  18. Re: Central servers are part of WHY Signal is succ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did you even read the article?